from Bob Duff of Detroit Hockey Now,
During a drill at practice on Wednesday, forward Lucas Raymond and defenseman Ben Chiarot came to blows. Teammates were required to intervene in order to separate the combatants.
This, according to Red Wings forward Patrick Kane, is a good thing. It’s a positive development for a club that needs to get back on track.
“I don’t think it’s a bad thing,” Kane said. “I’d be more worried if we were walking around here all smiles, happy and everything’s okay. I think it’s good to get a little frustrated as long as you harness it in the right way.
“Frustration can create a lot of positive energy as well, whether it’s practicicing like you play, or just playing harder tomorrow.”...
“We saw the intensity this morning in practice,” Perron said. “I think that’s great to see. Guys want to have solutions, they want to be part of it.
“I’m excited for tomorrow. It’s an exciting challenge to come to the rink and find a way to turn it around.“
If you missed it earlier today.
Glad to see it. I dont hate it.
Agreed Bill. Hopefully it's starts translating to the game time ice.
Red Wings have the theoretical 3rd easiest schedule in the Eastern Conference the remainder of the season. This is a meaningless distinction though, because the fractional differences are so slight, and in the NHL teams go through hot and cold streaks so timing can outweigh the pure mathematical record. Probably more important is that the majority of the Wings final 12 games are on the road, where they are under .500 for the year. 15-16-1.
If they dont pile up points immediately it will be a very unlikely climb back into a wild card position.
Kane, Seider, Perron and Lalonde.
via the Detroit Free Press,
from Ansar Khan of Mlive,
The Detroit Red Wings had what coach Derek Lalonde described as a hard meeting Wednesday, followed by an intense practice where tempers flared and emotions ran high.
They are searching for solutions during a six-game losing streak, a complete reversal of fortunes following the high of a six-game winning streak and 16-4-2 run that seemed to cement them in the playoff chase.
You want to see a response from the guys, Lalonde said. Obviously, they were very disappointed with the road trip. Youd like to see a little response in practice and obviously that happened today....
I thought we had a productive meeting today with some productive video, but its action, Lalonde said. Our action was a very intense practice. Were breaking up a potential fight in the middle of practice because it was intense. I think thats very productive. Youd like to think this group, with some of its veteran experience could get us out of this....
The Red Wings (33-25-6) are tied with the Islanders for the final wild card spot with 72 points, but New York has a game in hand. Washington (69 points), Buffalo (68) and a few other teams are hanging around....
Kane said the details of their game are lacking.
Effort level, compete, Kane said. I think when you outwork, when you out-compete your opponent, you increase your chance of winning that game. It just hasnt been there for us. I thought we had a good effort in Vegas. We just havent really had that consistently. Theres different ways to do it. Its not just hitting guys, or winning battles. Its hanging on to pucks, making it harder for the other team to play. Not being on our heels all the time. Hopefully, we can attack tomorrow and find a way to get something positive going.
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I think every team in the league now knows the way to get the Wings off their game is to aggressively forecheck them. And then they hound the puck carrier relentlessly, hacking and whacking at their arms and their bodies. Sadly, the refs have let teams get away with that.
The way to beat it is to get support from the forwards on the breakout and then to make passes that aren't guaranteed turnovers (yup, we're looking at you Berggren). It's too bad the Wings have so many guys who are terrible at making and/or receiving passes (Copp, Veleno, Ras, etc.).
It's just too bad this "collapse" didn't happen 2-3 weeks ago so Stevie Y could have moved some guys for picks and/or prospects.
lol, one turnover by Berggren. I trust you know that is not the problem for losing these games.
Berggren hasn't had just one bad turnover. Not be a long shot. And he plays like the NHL is the AHL. So far, I haven't seen him play with the intensity of someone like Raymond.
He just got called up. Are you using the past? He made some great plays already. And you put a 2nd round pick on the same level of a top 4 pick? And I am a huge Raymond fan following him back in the SHL.
I'm stating my opinion based on what I've seen since his first game in Detroit. I've said before that I originally thought he could score more goals than Raymond just because of his offensive skills. But there's a reason he was sent to GR this year.
He's been able to get away with some carelessness in the AHL (and he's shown he does have offensive skills). But, in my opinion, he's always been a bit "casual" in the way he plays compared to someone like Raymond.
And, quite frankly, it doesn't matter whether he was a 2nd-round pick or a 7th-round pick. To play with the team that Yzerman has said he wants to build, Berggren (and everyone else) needs to play with a certain level of intensity.
Right now, only a few of the guys are playing at that level (and Berggren isn't one of them when he should be highly motivated to show what he can do). So far, he's not showing much. He actually reminds me of Zadina in that respect. I'd like to see more focus and more drive from Berggren (along with everyone else).
The guy just got called up and it is way too early to make an assessment. If Berggren is not good enough, why did not Yzerman move him? The whole team is not playing with intensity. So, after one or two games he should take charge and set the team on the right path? Seriously? In the long-run, he may not work out or be the guy. However, there is a reason for them calling him up and for Yzerman not moving him. And right now, it is too early to tell.
Berggren has played 78 NHL games. He's not a rookie, and my opinion is not based on one or two games. I've watched him in a few games on local TV here in GR and he's played the way he's always played.
Raymond played that way when he first came up. But last summer, he got himself in shape and now he plays with more of an edge. I'm not sure Berggren has that in him.
Personally, I think Yzerman called him up (even though the Griffs are in a playoff race) because he wants to see him in NHL action before the end of the year. And if Berggren keeps playing the way he has (now and in the past), I think he'll be traded this summer.
A player has to play consistently. 78 games and then most of this season with not playing... he needs time. Indeed, he may be gone. However, too early to tell. Believe me, I would move him in package if it included some other current players on the roster such as Holl.
Youd like to think this group, with some of its veteran experience could get us out of this....
Thats exactly right. These are the guys that were brought in because theyve been around, through these situations, and should be a bigger help. Its fine to say Raymond or Seider should step up, but the veterans are supposed be leading by example and so far theyve let everyone down.
Exactly
👍👍👍
This. The vaunted experience of the seasoned veterans has let them down when they needed it most. Where is the fire in the room? Im looking at you, Perron. And you, Copp. Chiarot. Kane. Petry. Anyone?
Exactly
Cue crickets
I am glad they could get it all out of their system during practice so they can get back playing like a bunch of house cats tomorrow night.
from Nicholas J. Cotsonika of NHL.com,
What's wrong with the Red Wings?
On Feb. 28, they were fourth in the NHL in goals per game (3.58), eighth on the power play (23.5 percent) and ninth on the penalty kill (81.7 percent), but 20th in goals-against per game (3.15). They were 29th in 5-on-5 shot-attempts percentage (46.1 percent) and fourth in combined 5-on-5 shooting and save percentage (102.0 percent).
In other words, they were relying on hot shooting, hot goaltending and special teams, and were likely to regress to the mean.
Even from Jan. 1-Feb. 28, when they went 16-4-2 and ranked second in the NHL in points percentage (.773), there were cracks in the foundation.
In that span, they were fourth in goals per game (3.64) and seventh in goals-against per game (2.64). They were tied with the Washington Capitals for seventh on the power play (28.1 percent) and fourth on the penalty kill (84.6 percent), but 26th in 5-on-5 shot attempts percentage (46.1 percent) and second in combined 5-on-5 shooting and save percentage (102.9 percent).
"I think at times during the last six-game winning streak, we weren't playing as good as it seemed," forward David Perron said. "Everyone was pumping us up, and I had some conversations with people -- coaches, others, players.
"I just felt like we were outscoring our problems, and at one point, it was going to turn around and bite us a little bit, and it did. It's just the reversal of it right now."
Lalonde agreed to an extent.
"I think that's too broad," he said. "We played some really good hockey in that stretch. You don't get yourself 13 games over .500 by accident, but with that said, there was plenty of time within our game that we were scoring, and we got just outstanding goaltending for a long stretch."
Since Feb. 29, the Red Wings are 31st in goals per game (1.83), 32nd in goals-against per game (5.33), 19th on the power play (17.7 percent) and tied with the Minnesota Wild for 23rd on the penalty kill (72.7 percent). They're 26th in 5-on-5 shot attempts percentage (45.8 percent) and 32nd in combined 5-on-5 shooting and save percentage (90.9 percent)....
"We're not paying attention to detail," said forward Alex DeBrincat, who is tied with Larkin for the team lead with 54 points but has one assist during the losing streak. "We've had some tough starts. It's hard to come back in this league, and when you give up three, four goals in the first period, it's not a recipe for success.
"I think it's just a lot of frustration boiling over, and I think we've got to maybe calm down, just get back to the basics and play the system we know and really work hard. I think we've had a couple games where the work ethic's just not there. It's up and down the lineup, and it's really costing us."
Now the Red Wings need to snap back the other way.
Perron said Hockey Hall of Famer Ken Hitchcock, his former coach with the St. Louis Blues, used to say when you get results you don't deserve, it usually takes two or three weeks to get back to your game.
"That's exactly what's happening right now," Perron said. "I just couldn't help driving in this morning to kind of have his voice in my ear again, think about that. At the same time, it's an exciting challenge to come to the rink and find a way to turn it around."
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I think the Wings got too comfortable thinking they could flip the switch when they were down a few goals and comeback at will. Plus Lyon has bailed them out of so many games when the team defense was on a SOMA Holiday.
I Wonder how much video they watch on the road. The December losing streak was mostly road games as well. Is the staff not preparing and getting this team focused while on the road? Maybe On The Road for the wings is more like a Jack Kerouac novel.
+19 Dawg. Good analysis
Justin Bourne of Sportsnet takes a look at the chances for seven teams in the wild card in the East.
DETROIT RED WINGS
The Athletic: 34%
HockeyViz: 40.9%
Where they're at: For a while, the Red Wings seemed like the Flyers a team on the upswing that was punching a bit above its weight but was likely to come back down to earth at some point. Unlike the Flyers, the come back down to earth thing seems to be finally happening to Detroit, where the wins and losses are starting to align more with the underlying process numbers.
There are pieces to like in Detroit, and they do have a fairly soft schedule coming home. Its not impossible they'll get in. But if they do, they seem more like a feast for a top-seed than one possessing the pieces for a sneaky post-season run.
more teams
Too many FA signings, we all know that. And the FA signings are a defensive hole: Chariot, Holl, Ghost. Then the adding of DeBrincat and Kane with not the best D play for forwards is not helping either.
Petry is okay, but time is catching up. I like Yzerman, we all do. However, this is on him. He really has work to do. I thought even the Kostin signing was a mistake and not needed. Not sure why he did that, but glad he moved him out.
I don't know what you've been watching this year but Chariot has played well. Chariot is 5th best defender using the metric defensive points share. He is a minutes eater too averaging the 4th most among non-goalies at 19:27 a game while playing a physical game with the 2nd most hits on the team.
Maatta is +16 on the year. Even Holl is +8. Holl is even the 4th best defender using the metric defensive points share. It's mind blowing to me. I can't say either is a real reason for the Wings having issues as they are the 6th and 7th d-men.
Ghost is the defensive liability and bad turnover problem that everyone knew about, but it's his offensive skills that mitigate that. He's got 10 G and 42 points (23 from the power play). He's also on a 1 year prove it contract. He was well hidden at first--but turnovers around playoff times are always magnified.
Walman and Seider have been disappointments this year. Walman has regressed significantly. Seider is trying to round out his game and isn't anywhere near as physical. Both have been caught losing their assignments way too often. Their decision making particularly when a forward is behind the offensive net has been awful.
Petry was awful the 1st half, but has come on lately. He regularly gets beat because of his skating and because of that is often dropping out of the offensive zone early that results in turnovers and forwards getting to loose pucks.
Kostin's gone and was injured most of the year. The Wings have plenty of cap space so it's really hard to fault this signing as having any kind of impact on the team. Kostin when healthy brings an edge heavy game with hands that can still score. That's useful come playoff time as long as the player isn't requesting a trade because he is sick of being a healthy-scratch.
Chariot indeed looks better this season, but is not good overall. He drags his D pair down. If Holl is that good, Lalonde would not be scratching him. Seider and Walman are logging a lot of minutes and then add to it, they are up against the best. Most fans on other forums will point to the other D and not Seider and Walman being the disappointment. Again, much was written and commented about their good play.Yes, I agree we are both watching two different things. Guarantee that you remove Seider and Walman and play the others... things will be worse. I can agree with you about them being out of position. However, our forwards are going too deep. Larkin still tries to do his wrap around and they all get caught too deep. That is just one example. As a side note, Chiarot was responsible for a number of goals against during this skid.
👍👍
I like Lalonde, but stop the vet experience thoughts.
If Raymond only played like he practiced we might have something there.
Hahaha and very true.
Not!!!
That makes no sense. Been one of the best players during this skid. Look at the rest of the team.
Even Kate stated: Thats exactly right. These are the guys that were brought in because theyve been around, through these situations, and should be a bigger help. Its fine to say Raymond or Seider should step up, but the veterans are supposed be leading by example and so far theyve let everyone down.
Prior to yesterday's game he had no points and was a -10 in 5 games.
You have noticed that the whole team is doing poorly, no? And being a -10 when there are 4 other players on the ice that can affect that stat... tells you something. Jack Hughes is a career minus 49 and he is on a better team. Pointing out the plus/minus needs to be relative to many factors.
Here ya go: https://hockey-graphs.com/2016...
RW,
I am a pretty big fan Raymond and was pounding the table for Yzerman to Draft him months before the draft. He is a very skilled player but he is soft and rarely back checks, hence he is a minus 19 player. He is a floater.
My take Is they were practicing net front presence and Ben started giving Raymond the business like any good defensemen would do and Raymond could not take it and had a hissy fit. If this is true, good on Ben and good on Raymond for reacting the way he did. Raymond is one dimensional player but he has the skills to be more and I believe the more experience Chariot is pushing Lucas to be better.
Lucas probably asked him why he can't do that in a game.
No, not really. Then, Larkin is a one dimensional player if you look at plus/minus. Lucas is good defensively and goes to the corners. He is not a floater by any means. Both Perron and Veleno have also mentioned his improved D play. You are in the minority for sure and must be watching something different. And as a side note, Raymonds D play is better away from Larkin. Not trying to be offensive, but you are forming an opinion. When writers, analysts, commentators, coach, and players state his D play is good; that overrides an opinion.Chariot is a defensive sieve. That is not the example to follow.
I disagree but your opinion is welcome.
I do not think Larkin is a consistent two way player. He is prone to turnovers and always tries to do too much. He is heads above Raymond in the 200' game but he is always trying to cover his linemates inadequacies. I think from the Blashell days, him being the sole talent has created some habitual tendencies. Just my two cents.
Larkin has been in the league longer. He was not that good defensively for his first 3 seasons. And Larkins first season, the Wings had a better overall roster. And I was not trying to compare Larkin to Raymond. Finally, Larkin has his points due to Raymond. In terms of the D play, when you watch the game, notice how Larkin and Debrincat get caught to deep along with either Seider or Walman... sometimes both. That leaves Lucas chasing the play the other way. Tell me, how is the young forward supposed stop the play going the other way with 2 to 3 of other teams forwards already up the ice? Finally, you do realize that plus/minus is impacted by empty-net goals? All things need to be considered.
Here ya go, take a read:
https://hockey-graphs.com/2016...
It's nice the Wings had a "hard meeting" per Lalonde. Time for talk is over, talk is cheap. Show us dear Red Wings, to a man, that you are committed to each other as a team. Go out and overwhelm the Yotes tomorrow. Take that confidence and play like you mean it for the rest of the season. Otherwise quit wasting our time. L.G.R.W.
- Expecting Seider and Raymond to "carry the team" is absurd.
- The Holl and Chairot signings were objectively bad because of length. Yzerman has done an excellent job of bringing in solid vets on 1-2 year deals otherwise.
- Yzerman is responsible for signing legit back-up goaltenders to be no. 1's, who then get used more than they ever have in their careers.
- All the coaching in the world can't make players play. That's on them. This team has been better literally every season since Yzerman took over.
- The season isn't over just yet, there's a strong pipeline of prospects and this team has no shot of winning a Cup this season which is why we didn't make slappy moves at the deadline.
- Go re-watch Yzerman's introductory presser if you think any of this is removed from the playbook.
Exactly. Cheers and thanks...
Have yall seen our record with Kane in the lineup? Its 15-17-2. Now has he been a help or a hindrance? After the Cats fast start, his stats arent up to the expectations we need. Sometimes I wonder if there is a clique of the Michigan players that the rest of the players resent with their higher payroll.
I see SY trying to improve the team with the signings of Copp and Compher on the pk, and the ghost on the pp. But you cant just have guys who are one dimensional with their other skills poor and sticking out like sore thumb.
Now we are going to have to bring up the overripe players in GR and have to be patient with the mistakes they will inevitably make in the learning curve.
I really like the point about the Michigan players and the possibility of resent. That thought did not occur to me.
I am not sure who to blame for the terrible team defense. As someone mentioned, when they play aggressively and especially with a strong forecheck they look as they can compete with anyone. The ebbs and flows of this team is reminiscent of the Blashell days.
This team is too soft and many of us have said this since Yzerman took over. It is still a physical league.
We've known all year this team has terrible defensive stats 5 on 5. We pay over $21M for our crappy defense and that amount doesn't include Seider at $863,333. This is where we've failed our team. I can understand getting Ghost for the PP but Holl and Petry? Those two aren't worth $6M, they aren't leaders, and they aren't the good defensemen we need. Jeeze...
i remember the day they traded for Petry and i think i posted only WHHYYYY!? on here.
That's an easy answer:
because Petry > Holl.
Id be more worried if we were walking around here all smiles, happy and everythings okay. I think its good to get a little frustrated as long as you harness it in the right way.
This is an indirect shot at Lalonde, who is the most optomistic coach in the NHL.
From the quotes I am seeing, Perron is making the most sense of anyone in the org. I honestly think he's got a future as a coach or in management.
Plenty of blame to go around. With the pattern we've seen so far, they'll get this out of their system and be a force in a month only to eventually falter in the playoffs.
If Perron goes into management and he clutches and grabs as much as he does on the ice, there'll be lawsuits. Lots and lots of lawsuits. :-)
He'll fit in someplaces. Heck, I've been given plenty of shoulder rubs from an older guy I work with!
Now that that repressed memory has surfaced, I think it's bed time.
dunno if i agree, TK. my prediction was the worst would happen, theyd finish 16th-20th.
It's the damn patch. No question about it. :-p
+1
UPS Driver told us he yelled at that company's shipping dept telling them it's all their fault and they all laughed.
Yzerman himself mentioned "team" defense must improve. When these streaks unfold, some fans want to point to one or two players. If one or two players are what win games, you will not find that in the current NHL. The Oilers have the two best players in the world and still have not won a Stanley Cup.
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/...
I like reading the differing takes in this thread, so figured I'd add my 2 cents.
This team is either great or terrible this year. The 2 things that the wings have had when playing well have been great goaltending and healthy centers.
Larkin is a top 32 center in basically every statistical metric both offensively and defensively (which makes him a #1C in today's NHL). Compher is a decent but not great 2nd pair C and has been good for us when playing in that role with goal scoring wingers. Copp should probably be a 4th line center but had a good stretch recently playing with Ras in more of a checking style 3rd line role that scores the odd dirty one. Veleno plays a good all around game with energy and some goal scoring ability when playing 12 minutes a night on the 4th line. Fisher is a 13th forward. As soon one of our top centers go down our whole lineup is instantly outmatched and the whole lineup plays differently to make up for it.
Ie: Charot trys to pinch to keep offensive going, Perron trys to play with energy and takes penalties, J.Burgers/Holl get put in and aren't capable, Lyon plays an extra foot out of his crease and turns into 2017 Peter Mrazek, etc...
Lyon needs a break so Riemer should start the next game and everyone else needs to get back to skating hard, gapping up, shooting from everywhere, and playing smart positional hockey.
Fingers crossed that Larkin gets back soon and that Danielson turns out to be the Ryan Kesler like, 2-way, #2C that this team needs in the next couple of years.
Im also ok with Yzerman going out and signing free agents every year to see what sticks. It's really one of the only options to get high end talent when you lose the lottery every year. This year has been more fun to watch than the last 7 or 8.
59 comments, nice.
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