Kukla's Korner

Kukla's Korner Hockey

So far, so good (or bad) for Calle Jarnkrok

You may be surprised to find that I don't agree with a significant number of the Red Wings coach or general manager's personnel machinations or moves, but I try to keep my desire for, say, splitting Daniel Alfredsson from Luke Glendening forever, or, say, the Wings going after a certain free agent or player available via trade simply because I like them.

I figure that I'm not a coach or general manager, so I don't know what the coach or GM do, and as such, I'd rather critique what the players on the ice do or not do over the course of games instead of playing blog-seat quarterback.

In the case of the Wings' decision to trade Calle Jarnkrok, Patrick Eaves and a 3rd-rounder to Nashville for David Legwand, however--even given that there are three people in addition to myself who've heard that Jarnkrok might head back to Sweden at the end of the year to play for his hometown team, Brynas IF Gavle--I think that the Wings got fleeced by Predators GM David Poile the same way that he fleeced the Caps in the Filip Forsberg-for-Martin Erat deal, and the Tennessean's Josh Cooper reports that Jarnkrok's displaying all the promise he did with Grand Rapids as a member of the Milwaukee Admirals:

When the Predators traded for Calle Jarnkrok as part of a package for David Legwand, they expected the young forward to provide solid skill down the middle.

They probably didn’t expect him to be prolific so quickly.

Jarnkrok has five goals in his first five games with Nashville’s American Hockey League affiliate, the Milwaukee Admirals. Predators coach Barry Trotz has seen Jarnkrok play and believes the 22-year-old Swede could be promoted this season.

“I’m not going to make any promises,” Trotz said. “But what I saw of him, and if he continues to play like he has been, I would say that from my standpoint, if we had some injuries I would like to take a look at him.”

The fact that the Predators were able to get a player some have compared to Red Wings captain Henrik Zetterberg was seen as a steal in many NHL circles.

Jarnkrok is still painfully undersized and may never gain enough strength to compete for pucks effectively at the NHL level, but even if the Wings re-sign Legwand and get three to five productive seasons out of him, I'm still baffled as to why the Wings chose to let Jarnkrok go.

I understand the fact that the Wings are absolutely stacked at the center position at the NHL level, and that Jarnkrok seemed to get the concept that he'd have to unseat one of Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening, Weiss etc., but I just don't think it was necessary to jettison the team's brightest center ice prospect as a result of his potential desire to extricate him from the situation.

I'm not going to root against Jarnkrok, but I'm sure as hell glad that the WIngs aren't in the same conference as the Predators anymore, because if Jarnkrok does fulfill his potential as a 40-plus point producer, it'd be too painful to watch him take regular bites out of a divisional rival and former team.

This trade wasn't Adam Oates for Bernie Federko bad, but I don't believe that it was anything less than short-sighted.

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Comments

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I understand the fact that the Wings are absolutely stacked at the center position at the NHL level, and that Jarnkrok seemed to get the concept that he’d have to unseat one of Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening, Weiss etc., but I just don’t think it was necessary to jettison the team’s brightest center ice prospect as a result of his potential desire to extricate him from the situation.

Necessary?  No.  Understandable?  Yes.

Moving Jarnkrok and assorted stuff for Legwand makes Detroit better this year and (assuming he re-signs) for the next two or three years.

Jarnkrok was highly unlikely to crack the lineup as a center either this year, or next year, and most likely the year after that.

Regardless of how good you believe Jarnkrok was, as a forward he was no better (and in many cases inferior) to Nyquist or Jurco or Pulkinnen and you can make a case that Mantha had passed him in terms of pure upside as well.  There is a real limit to how many young players a team can bring up within a time frame and be effective, as has been demonstrated this year.

I don’t believe that it was anything less than short-sighted.

Well, no kidding.  All deadline trades that move future assets for current assets are ‘short sighted’, so unless you’re advocating for a complete ban on ever moving a prospect for a current NHLer using ‘short sighted’ as a criticism of such a move is so universally applicable it’s pointless.

This is how deadline trades work for teams that are ‘buyers’ as opposed to ‘sellers’.  You give up some package of assets who have career windows that stretch out for a large number of years at an indeterminate level for a less numerous package of assets who have career windows that stretch for fewer years, but with a greater degree of certainty regarding their level of contribution.

Personally I would have blown up the season, moved every expiring player I could that I wasn’t planing on keeping past this year, LTIR’d everyone with a cough, and tried to tank my way into the top 8 for next years draft… but that’s not how Detroit has ever chosen to do things, and that sort of dedication to success has served the organization well over the years, and now decades.

Generally speaking, who could Detroit have gotten for Jarnkrok, Eaves and a #3 that you would have been happy about, George?

Posted by HockeyinHD on 03/18/14 at 03:07 AM ET

George Malik's avatar

I don’t know if there’s anybody I’d be happy to get at that price—or who would be available for a similar amount—but I’m obviously biased toward Jarnkrok’s potential given how much the organization talked him up since he was drafted.

I mean, Vanek was never an option because he’s going to test the free agent waters. Hemsky? Captain passypants, despite his success thus far with Ottawa.

I’m allowed to be disappointed and you’re allowed to lecture me about the realities of the situation. I understand why the Wings did what they did. I’m disappointed with it and every once in a while, I’m gonna admit as much.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/18/14 at 03:20 AM ET

Hockeytown Wax's avatar

I’m with you on this one George.

I was hoping Jarnkrok & Pulkkinen would develop into the next Datsyuk & Zetterberg.

There was a lot of hype on both right from the get-go and things sounded so rosey and promising.

Now i’m just confused & disappointed.  **sigh**

To change the subject ... if it turns out Weiss never recovers from this groinage injury, is there something in the CBA that would force Florida to hand over a draft choice to make up for receiving damaged goods ??

Posted by Hockeytown Wax from West Bloomfield, Mi. on 03/18/14 at 03:57 AM ET

Chet's avatar

when will it be ok for fans of this team to talk honestly about how poorly the brain trust has bungled this team over the past few seasons? what a goddamned disaster.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 03/18/14 at 04:43 AM ET

alwaysaurie's avatar

All deadline trades that move future assets for current assets are ‘short sighted’

well… this isn’t “literally” true…

Is it safe to assume this is only a little bit of hyperbole?

... using ‘short sighted’ as a criticism of such a move is so universally applicable it’s pointless.

Okay, fair enough. You obviously didn’t consider it hyperbole at the time you wrote this. But… not that I pointed it out to you, you realize that the first “All deadline” quote is hyperbole.. right?

No?

Fair enough.

Carry on.

Posted by alwaysaurie on 03/18/14 at 05:01 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Jarnkrok is still painfully undersized and may never gain enough strength to compete for pucks effectively at the NHL level,

I think he’s the same size as Giroux

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/14 at 08:04 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Jarnkrok will get promoted to the NHL in the Nashville organization and he’ll do very well there, making Holland look like a fool for A) keeping him buried in Grand Rapids when all of the starting centers are injured and B) trading away a high skill human highlight reel in the making for a competent veteran.

If I were a car dealer in greater Detroit, I’d do all I could to get Ken Holland’s business. This last trade was like him giving up a new European sportscar for a late model, high milage minivan.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/18/14 at 08:05 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Jarnkrok was highly unlikely to crack the lineup as a center either this year, or next year, and most likely the year after that.

Thats a knock on management, not the player.  And saying the trade is short sighted is the criticism of this deal.  To go from swearing up and down that they would not trade the future for a rental, to panicking at the last second and giving away a potential scoring center and a pick for the definition of mediocrity is short sighted in the extreme.  The same could not have been said for a deal that brought in a dman with term, therefore short sighted is a valid criticism.  Not to mention several other teams around Detroit in the standings improved through trades, and they didnt have to overpay to do it.

And sure, Holland says he wants to sign Legwand, but why?  Just to cover up how poor this deal was to begin with?  The last thing the Wings need is another mediocre forward clogging up the system, and on top of that, if they resign him, they give up a 2nd rounder instead of just a 3rd.

Holland continues to flounder in the cap era, with Alfredsson as his one positive addition to the team in recent years.  He’s prone to panic moves and sentimentality, and IMO its time for someone else to take the wheel.

Posted by Hootinani on 03/18/14 at 08:37 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

if they resign him, they give up a 2nd rounder instead of just a 3rd.

I thought the round was contingent upon our making the playoffs, not our signing him long term.

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/14 at 08:58 AM ET

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Has everyone forgotten that Wings lost 3 of their top 4 D in 2 years? Not many teams can recover from that.
Rafalski and Stuart type players don’t grow on trees and guys like Lidstrom come once in a generation.
Current top tier D-men aren’t exactly available for Wings to grab. What we are seeing is an inevitable results of losing those players so quickly and being a top-tier team for so long. Yes, Wings got lucky a few times with their draft pics, but for the most part all their prospects are never going to be top tier players, especially not Jarnkrok. It’s fun to talk about how Mantha is going to be a 50 goal scorer, but you just never know.
I agree that Holland has screwed up with some moves, especially with Cleary re-signing last year. Yes, I’m still annoyed at that one.
Legwand trade for a necessity the second Wings’ brain trust decided NOT to throw in the towel on this season. Sure, if the Wings don’t make it, then, in retrospect, it will be easy for us, fans, to bitch and moan how they should have just hung on to that draft pic and Jarnkrok, but that’s not how things work.
If they can resign Legwand, Helm may become a trade bait to try to land a good D-man.

Posted by George0211 on 03/18/14 at 08:58 AM ET

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if they resign him, they give up a 2nd rounder instead of just a 3rd.

I thought the round was contingent upon our making the playoffs, not our signing him long term.

Posted by MoreShoot on 03/18/14 at 08:58 AM ET

You are correct, the draft pic is dependent on making the playoffs.

Posted by George0211 on 03/18/14 at 08:59 AM ET

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To go from swearing up and down that they would not trade the future for a rental

1) He didn’t swear ANYTHING up and down.
2) At the time of the deal Joakim Andersson was the #1 centre.

It astonishes me that anyone can be so thick headed that they can’t understand that having Helm injured the night before deadline day and having Datsyuk shut down two and a half hours before the deadline while the team was still firmly in the playoff picture absolutely must change his strategy.

Jesus Christ, should he have just curled into a ball and started sobbing, or should he have acted like a *#$%@& NHL GM and try to make his team better?

Does he make the deal if Helm is healthy and Datsyuk is still only day-to-day?  Probably not, or at least not at the last minute, dealing from a position of extreme weakness.  But to question why he would acquire a rental centre after finding out that neither Helm nor Datsyuk were going to be back any time soon is absolutely ridiculous.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/14 at 09:18 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

This last trade was like him giving up a new European sportscar for a late model, high milage minivan.

In the sense that he traded a high-maintenance untested spec model for something capable of actually carrying a load, yes he sure did that.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 09:22 AM ET

Avatar

Thanks, George. On the one hand, you had to rub this in my face. On the other hand, at least I’m not the only one who thinks that trade was short-sighted.

I just cannot understand this idea that it is so necessary to trade for a middling center because the team was decimated at center! Seriously? The team is currently missing 4 centers. That was the status as of the trade deadline.

What team thinks they’re going to make the playoffs (and have a chance to do anything at all) when they’re missing their two best players (and the team isn’t that great to begin with)????????????

It’s more than short-sighted! To take the best center in the system (and quit lumping him in with all forwards, HiHD) and trade him for literally one month of an average second line center is absolutely short-sighted and in a bad way. You can say St. Louis made some short-sighted moves to get Miller and Ott - that’s fine, because they now put themselves into a serious Cup position.

The Wings, on the other hand, despite the roster being an absolute disaster, threw up the definition of a Hail Mary. That trade was a freaking prayer. To “make the playoffs” this year with little chance to do anything special.

To answer your question, HiHD, it is obvious to everyone that the team needs to add a good defenseman….badly. There are no free agents that fit that mold, unless someone gets bought out. I’m not holding my breath. So that means a trade is likely necessary. I bet they could’ve flipped Jarnkrok and some other assets for a good defenseman. In that case, I would have been disappointed to see him go but I would have understood.

Instead, the team got (if he resigns and the team is fully healthy) a third line center who may leave after playing no more than 20 some games. It was a Hail Mary trade for a team barely hanging onto the 8th seed, missing its two best players, and its top 4 centers.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 03/18/14 at 09:31 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Rafalski and Stuart type players don’t grow on trees and guys like Lidstrom come once in a generation.

Rafalski and Lidstrom, agreed. Stuart? It was so obvious he was going out to California, and yet Holland didn’t try to get anything from it.

Current top tier D-men aren’t exactly available for Wings to grab.

What would you rather give out, Eaves+3rd-rounder+Jarnkrok for Legwand or Janrkrok+1st-rounder+Eaves(?) for Ehrhoff?

That said, other than Jarnkrok leaving, I had no issue with trading for Legwand. Our centers at the time were Andersson, Sheahan, Glendening and Emmerton.

Long term, of course defense is where we need good guyss the most. But injuries this season made center a black hole.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 09:34 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

It astonishes me that anyone can be so thick headed that they can’t understand that having Helm injured the night before deadline day and having Datsyuk shut down two and a half hours before the deadline while the team was still firmly in the playoff picture absolutely must change his strategy.

And it astonishes me that anyone else could be so ignorant to think that Legwand would be the answer to any of the problems the Wings had, including being without a legitimate #1 center.  So to waste assets on a player that adds nothing to your team when you could have just as easily called up and given a chance to another young forward is ridiculous.

I do apologize for being wrong about the pick, one of the earlier reports on twitter said it was contingent on if he resigned.

Posted by Hootinani on 03/18/14 at 09:35 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Also, our locked up centers for next season are Datsyuk, Weiss, Helm and Andersson. Anyone truly believes any of the first three playing more than 60 games? And have you watched Andersson lately?

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 09:35 AM ET

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What would you rather give out, Eaves+3rd-rounder+Jarnkrok for Legwand or Janrkrok+1st-rounder+Eaves(?) for Ehrhoff?

That said, other than Jarnkrok leaving, I had no issue with trading for Legwand. Our centers at the time were Andersson, Sheahan, Glendening and Emmerton.

Long term, of course defense is where we need good guyss the most. But injuries this season made center a black hole.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 09:34 AM ET

It would cost more than that to get Earhoff, I would think. Everyone agrees that D is what needs the most work, but again who and how?

Yes everyone knew Stuart was leaving and Holland did what 29 other teams tried to do and that was get Sutter. They pushed hard for him and it came down between Wings and Wild, he chose to go to Wild. There is only so much a GM can do in a situation like that.

Posted by George0211 on 03/18/14 at 09:37 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Yes everyone knew Stuart was leaving and Holland did what 29 other teams tried to do and that was get Sutter. They pushed hard for him and it came down between Wings and Wild, he chose to go to Wild. There is only so much a GM can do in a situation like that.

Some of the other GMs were smart and went after the second, third or fourth best defensemen, while a couple of GMs never thought “oh but what if I dont sign him?”

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 09:40 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Stuart? It was so obvious he was going out to California, and yet Holland didn’t try to get anything from it.

We have San Jose’s 7th rounder this year from this deal. Are you saying he should have sold Brad Stuart at the trade deadline in 2012?

Janrkrok+1st-rounder+Eaves(?) for Ehrhoff?

Was that offer actually on the table from Buffalo?

So to waste assets on a player that adds nothing to your team when you could have just as easily called up and given a chance to another young forward is ridiculous.

The difference in NHL ability between David Legwand and Calle Jarnkrok is positively massive right now and the Wings as they were set up on trade deadline day was a team with a good shot at making the postseason and getting healthy at the right time.

Playing Jarnkrok would have been pulling the chute on the season well before its time.

You’ll notice WHERE exactly Calle Jarnkrok is playing well right now… Milwaukee. He’s not even in Nashville, which is a basement team with no shot at making the postseason.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 09:58 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

The thing that bums me out about the Jarnkrok trade isn’t so much that they traded Jarnkrok (they have a glut of skilled but undersized young forwards), it’s more what the trade represents. The trade represents a front office that is still thinking like it is 2010 instead of thinking like it is 2014. To be honest, the best result here for the team’s future success is for them to miss the playoffs (only costs a 3rd instead of that 2nd that way), then re-ink Legwand for a 2 - 4 year span. If they don’t re-ink Legwand, this will be an unmitigated disaster of a trade, and again, more so for what it represents than the player that was shipped out.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 03/18/14 at 10:00 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Was that offer actually on the table from Buffalo?

No idea, I just used the “pick, player, prospect” standard I heard at the time.

We have San Jose’s 7th rounder this year from this deal. Are you saying he should have sold Brad Stuart at the trade deadline in 2012?

Yes. It was clear Stuart was homesick and it was affecting his play badly. I’m not saying we’d get something awesome for him, but at least better than 7th rounder, yes.

(I also think Filppula and Hudler should’ve been traded instead of leaving as FAs)

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 10:06 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

No idea, I just used the “pick, player, prospect” standard I heard at the time.

So then we can’t pretend that we just missed on getting Ehrhoff because Holland decided to go a different way. I mean, we can (and probably will) do that, but it’s not incredibly useful other than to strengthen a belief in this kind of a bumbling old man doting through the twilight of his career narrative that people are starting to build about Ken Holland.

Yes. It was clear Stuart was homesick and it was affecting his play badly. I’m not saying we’d get something awesome for him, but at least better than 7th rounder, yes.

(I also think Filppula and Hudler should’ve been traded instead of leaving as FAs)

Hindsight is a great way of saying when we should and shouldn’t have become sellers. Probably should have traded Hossa in 2009. could you imagine the return they’d have gotten for him?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 10:28 AM ET

Avatar

So to waste assets on a player that adds nothing to your team

What a *#$%@& joke of an argument.  Adds nothing to the team?  He upgraded them at centre.  He gave them a proven NHL centre to fill the gap between injuries, and if/when Detroit gets healthy he gives them better depth.  He eases the when injured players begin to return.

But yeah, why should a *#$%@& NHL GM make an effort to improve his team by adding a legitimate top two centre rather than calling up even more completely unproven AHLers?

Just because some *#$%@& fans gave up on the Wings while the Wings were either still in the last playoffs spot or within one point of itdoesn’t mean the GM should.

His job is literally to not give up on his team.

Holy crap, what was Holland thinking?  He was probably thinking that if this team can make the playoffs and get healthy, adding Legwand makes them better than they were last year, and last year they were one overtime goal away beating the team that went on to win the Stanley Cup.  He was probably also thinking that there is nobody in the East that is as good as last year’s Hawks were, therefore being a better team this year than last year and playing against teams that aren’t as good as the Hawks were last year probably gives a healthy Red Wings team the absolute potential to do better in the playoffs this year than last year.

Posted by Garth on 03/18/14 at 10:32 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

So then we can’t pretend that we just missed on getting Ehrhoff because Holland decided to go a different way.

I did not say that, sorry if I’m phrasing led you to think that. What I meant is there were defensemen available, and we wouldn’t be crying about Jarnkrok being traded if a good defenseman came our way.

Hindsight is a great way of saying when we should and shouldn’t have become sellers. Probably should have traded Hossa in 2009. could you imagine the return they’d have gotten for him?

Come on, JJ. KK doesn’t store comments from that long ago, but it’s not hindsight if me and a lot of other people were saying that in February 2012. Also, don’t be crazy and compare Stuart’s poor performance that season with Hossa’s great campaign in 2009.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 10:34 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I mean, we can (and probably will) do that, but it’s not incredibly useful other than to strengthen a belief in this kind of a bumbling old man doting through the twilight of his career narrative that people are starting to build about Ken Holland.

JJ, you’re a reasonable guy and I like you. Are you really behind Holland on 100% of the deals he’s made in the last three or four years? Even 50%?

Cleary, Samuelsson, Tootoo, Bertuzzi, Quincey, Commodore, trying to improve the defense with Quincey and Commodore… That is just a bad track record, and that stink is stuck on him until he does something good.

(Alfredsson was a good signing, I liked bringing Legwand even if I didn’t like the price, holding my judgement on Weiss)

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 10:39 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

To be honest, the best result here for the team’s future success is for them to miss the playoffs (only costs a 3rd instead of that 2nd that way), then re-ink Legwand for a 2 - 4 year span. If they don’t re-ink Legwand, this will be an unmitigated disaster of a trade, and again, more so for what it represents than the player that was shipped out.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet!

I agree completely on the first point. Even if the Wings squeak into the playoffs, they’ll be lucky to win a single game in the first round (even with Pavel back). In that case, losing a 3rd rounder is far better than losing a 2nd rounder. And that doesn’t even account for the advantage gained by getting a 1st round pick somewhere in the #8 to #12 range instead of in the #15 or higher range.

As for resigning Legwand? I’m not as high on that idea as I was when the deal was first made. I remembered him as being a really tough guy to play against when he was with the Preds. So far, I haven’t seen that same kind of tenacity from him. In fact, I have a hard time recalling anything of note (other than his one goal) that he’s done in his first six games as a Red Wing.

I’m with those who think Holland made a bad deal – every bit as bad as the Quincey trade and worse than the signings of Sammy, Tootoo and Cleary (which kept Nyquist in GR until the end of November).

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/18/14 at 10:56 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

JJ, you’re a reasonable guy and I like you. Are you really behind Holland on 100% of the deals he’s made in the last three or four years? Even 50%?

I’d have to have somebody give me a list of every move over the last three years to give you an accurate figure, but it’s probably north of 50%

That is just a bad track record, and that stink is stuck on him until he does something good.

Ok.

Alfredsson was a good signing

Cool, so only the Cleary stink is stuck on him then because the Alfredsson signing, which was good happened after those things. We could clear the Cleary stench with the Legwand move further.

FTR, I still don’t regret the Bertuzzi or Commodore signings.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 10:58 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Just because some *#$%@& fans gave up on the Wings while the Wings were either still in the last playoffs spot or within one point of itdoesn’t mean the GM should.

His job is literally to not give up on his team.

Posted by Garth

Actually, I think his job is to constantly improve the team. You can argue that Legwand is an improvement over, say, having to use Emmerton at center in his place. However (and here comes that phrase again), it is short-sighted thinking because the addition of Legwand has not made the Wings a better team in terms of making the playoffs.

And the same can be said of the Sammy, Tootoo and Cleary signings. None of those deals have made the Wings more likely to make the playoffs. If anything, they made it less likely this year.

It’s just my opinion, but I think it’s time for Holland to “exit stage left” and let some fresh eyes and fresh ideas guide this team for the next five years.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/18/14 at 11:08 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Damn, JJ, are you misinterpreting me on purpose? Do you really have to take everything literally?

There’s more “bad” than “good” on the current roster. The team is getting weaker with each passing season since 2009.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 11:10 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

There’s more “bad” than “good” on the current roster.

Ken Holland didn’t intentionally put together a $36M roster.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 11:19 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Intention has nothing to do with it. He’s the manager of the roster. He owns it regardless of intention.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/18/14 at 11:38 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Intention has nothing to do with it. He’s the manager of the roster. He owns it regardless of intention.

Well then it’s a good thing he was proactive enough to injure Cleary’s knee and make him a non-issue.

It’s like he’s fixing his own errors!

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 11:44 AM ET

Avatar

Yah Holland for signing Alfredsson, after all his agent called Holland to express his desire to play for him, so I guess that makes Holland a genius.  I agree with the Holland must go sentiment, he is too shortsided and cannot seem to let go of the past, kind of like some on this forum.  He has not been effective in a long while, but when you have Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datsyuk as your foundation you can make mistakes and not have it harm your franchise.  As players got older and scouts and asst GM’s leave, more and more the spotlight is on Holland and it is becoming clearer that he’s not capable of making the necessary decisions needed to take the next step.

Posted by bababooey on 03/18/14 at 11:46 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Ken Holland didn’t intentionally put together a $36M roster.

By “current roster”, I mean players on the system. Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Tootoo, those guys are on the system. There’s no clear 1st line defenseman on the system.

Dear lord, I should start adding a glossary to my comments.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 11:47 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

By “current roster”, I mean players on the system. Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, Tootoo, those guys are on the system. There’s no clear 1st line defenseman on the system.

Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, and Tootoo don’t make up half the roster.

There’s absolutely not more bad than good.  If you’re saying you don’t mean what you actually say then I guess I’m not understanding you, but if you’re literally saying that more than half the roster is bad, then I disagree with you.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/18/14 at 12:01 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

There’s also a lof of meh, some not good enough, and the general lack of good constitutes a bad.

For a contending point-of-view, there’s not enough goods and too many bads.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 03/18/14 at 12:48 PM ET

SYF's avatar

I was bummed the Wings traded away Shawn Matthias to the Panthers for Bert.  I’m bummed about this one, but I’ve moved on.

Posted by SYF from the team that re-signed KFQ and DFC by KFH on 03/18/14 at 01:24 PM ET

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