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Morning Line

What I hope for both sides, what I hope for everyone, is that when Bettman and Fehr walk out of their offices for a final time, that they pass on to their successors a hard drive full of records, but also a file – hard copy – of the events of 2012. For Bettman and Fehr to say to their successors, “Read this.” This is how it was. Going into the next negotiations we as owners and players need to know what we need and we need to know what the other side needs. But as we get into the muck of the deal, as we develop a hate for the other side, we also know there is a final need. It’s our need and it’s theirneed too, because it’s the public’s need. We are truly not the only ones who matter. There needs to be a season.

-Ken Dryden at the Globe and Mail where you can read more from Dryden.

Filed in: NHL Talk, NHLPA, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: ken+dryden

Comments

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That’s a nice sentiment and all, but c’mon.

The only reason there’s ever not going to be a CBA fight to the death is when both sides are equally unwilling to have one.  If the PA is always going to be willing to blow 660ish million dollars to get a deal .0000001% better than one they could have had without missing a game the odds of there being labor interruptions every time a CBA is negotiated approaches 100%.  If hockey operations is going to constantly be either a no or low-profit endeavor, owners won’t particularly care if games are played or not.

That’s what will determine labor peace, not some fairy tale ‘think of the little people’ kumbaya nonsense.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 01/08/13 at 11:10 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Only someone willfully twisting events can blame a union for a lockout. Three times.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 01/08/13 at 01:07 PM ET

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Only someone willfully twisting events can blame a union for a lockout.

Eyeroll.

Once more, on the off chance that the tenth time something said has a better chance of penetrating your skull than the first attempt does:

I don’t blame the PA for the lockout.  They can’t control that.  What they can control is the length of the lockout… and their stubborn, overwrought emotion and plain old fashioned stupidity extended it months longer than they should have allowed.

Again (hoping repetition is an aid to comprehension), the reality was that the PA was going to lose the lockout in every material way from the moment it commenced.  Everybody should have known that going in.  The people who were able to assess the situation rationally and dispassionately did.

The PA could have saved themselves 660+ million bucks by reaching an incredibly similar agreement in September to the one they ended up getting in January.

For that, for their monumentally childish footstomping, stubborn, stupid and shortsighted approach to this negotiation, I think they should be held responsible in the court of public opinion, ultimately useless and irrelevant though it may be.

I don’t ‘blame’ them for it.  They are apparently largely idiots, so expecting them to behave in a rational, sensible manner is a bridge to far.  Que sa’ra.  Still, reality is reality… and their stupidity cost them 660 mil and us half a season of hockey.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 01/08/13 at 01:29 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

They also cost us lots of space used for condescending posts that continue to blame the union for the actions of the management. I don’t see how anyone could be a hockey fan if the players of the game were so spineless as to grab the first offer the league gave them. Anything short of that would have cost games. How is a league making crazy offers somehow the union’s fault?

And do try to answer without the condescension. I’d be interested to see if you can.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 01/08/13 at 01:41 PM ET

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I think they should be held responsible in the court of public opinion

It’s funny you would say something like that in the same sentence as the words “childish” and “stubborn”.

Hey everyone, HockeyinHD has expressed his opinion, so please amend your opinion to reflect his.

They are apparently largely idiots

I read this thing once about a pot and kettle.

Can’t remember the specifics though…oh well., I’m sure it will come to me.

Posted by Garth on 01/08/13 at 01:42 PM ET

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Sure the PA would have save themselves 600 million plus this year, but at what cost?  Accepting the 46% split the NHL offered back in September would have cost the players more than that 600 million over the course of the CBA.  Has it ever occurred to you, HD, that the players while concerned about their own financial well being also were concerned about future players as well?

I can hope at this point, possibly with a healthy dose of naivety, that there’s a chance we’re not doing the same lockout dance when this CBA is over.  Is there any doubt though, that if the players had caved back in September a lockout wouldn’t be a stone cold assurance again next time around?

Posted by Valek from Chicago on 01/08/13 at 02:07 PM ET

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Sure the PA would have save themselves 600 million plus this year, but at what cost?  Accepting the 46% split the NHL offered back in September would have cost the players more than that 600 million over the course of the CBA.  Has it ever occurred to you, HD, that the players while concerned about their own financial well being also were concerned about future players as well?

I can hope at this point, possibly with a healthy dose of naivety, that there’s a chance we’re not doing the same lockout dance when this CBA is over.  Is there any doubt though, that if the players had caved back in September a lockout wouldn’t be a stone cold assurance again next time around?

Posted by Valek on 01/08/13 at 02:07 PM ET

He might be referring to the late October offer, in which the financial terms past this year were identical to what the PA signed on Sunday. That offer had $100 million less in make-whole, but roughly $800 million more in salary (at minimum…it’s unknown whether there is “damage to the league” that will impact future revenue later, but it IS known that there wasn’t damage at that time).

Compared to that particular offer (and the two subsequent ones) the NHLPA lost a lot of money signing what they ultimately did.


However, I don’t know what the owners proposed in September, so I might be wrong. My recollection is the first offer from the NHL worth even noticing came in October…it just happened to be the one most-worth trying to modify and sign.

Posted by larry on 01/08/13 at 03:08 PM ET

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They also cost us lots of space used for condescending posts that continue to blame the union for the actions of the management.

I mean, can I be any clearer than saying I don’t blame the players for the lockout?  Is that simple statement too much to grasp?  I can’t imagine it is, red.

So, why are you so hung up on refusing to understand it?

I don’t see how anyone could be a hockey fan if the players of the game were so spineless as to grab the first offer the league gave them.

That’s dishonest hyperbole, Red.  No-one has said or suggested that the PA should have taken the first offer the NHL gave them.  I don’t know why you appear set on making outlandishly inaccurate statements.

I’m saying that the PA should have gotten the best deal they could have without losing much, if any, revenue… because the deal they could have gotten without losing much, if any revenue wasn’t going to be much worse than the one they just got after losing 660+ million dollars of revenue.

I don’t blame the PA for the lockout, I ‘blame’ them for extending it out of pique, stubbornness and stupidity.

The smart move would have been to move quickly to make a deal and then to try and bite back on contracting terms in the next deal.  Now the PA has (again, stupidly) spent all of it’s strength and gotten precisely nothing for the low, low price of 660+ million in their salaries.

Essentially, the PA just spent all that money to spit in Bettman’s face.  And ours.

And do try to answer without the condescension.

When you demonstrate you can discuss intelligently without resorting to hyperbole and misrepresentation I’ll think about it.  As long as you’re willing to make stuff up, pass.  It’s not worth the effort to take those silly statements seriously.

Has it ever occurred to you, HD, that the players while concerned about their own financial well being also were concerned about future players as well?

If that was the case why was the PA insistent on a 5/6 year CBA for so long?  How many ‘future players’ are you really talking about when that’s the time frame you want?

And even if they were trying to protect ‘future players’, I fail to see how they managed to accomplish any of that in this deal any better than they could have by making a deal sooner.

Are ‘future players’ protected by the 50-50 split?  The 300 mil in ‘make whole’ that’s gone in 3 years?  The reduced term limits to contracts?  What, exactly, in the new CBA protects ‘future players’?

Literally nothing in this CBA protects future players in any way that the next CBA can’t undo immediately, and none of the terms that I’ve seen actually improve the standing of future players. 

IMO this was about getting as much money as they possibly could… which is fine.  Where I have a problem with that strategy is when in order to get moderate concessions on make whole, revenue sharing and pensions they give up 660+ mil on the front end and 7% of HRR on the back end.

So, to get whatever concessions they got the PA spent a bare minimum of 2.45 billion dollars (660 mil up front + 7% of 3.2 B in HRR a year for 8 years.)

And that’s the absolute bare minimum.  If HRR increases over time, which it almost certainly will, and the CBA runs the full 10 we’re talking 3-3.5 billion, easy.

I can hope at this point, possibly with a healthy dose of naivety, that there’s a chance we’re not doing the same lockout dance when this CBA is over.

Me too.  My fear is that if the PA is willing to pee away 660+ million on general principle just because they don’t like the Comissioner and end up with a deal at best incrementally better than one they could have had months earlier… what won’t they sacrifice that much for?

IMO the only way the NHL avoids a lockout/strike in 8-10 years is if the two sides simply agree to roll over the current deal in its entirety.  If the NHL asks for anything from the PA they’ll get pissed and then we’re off to the races.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 01/09/13 at 10:56 AM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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