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Do You Agree With Steve Yzerman?

 

Filed in: NHL Teams, Chicago Blackhawks, | KK Hockey | Permalink
 

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duhduhduh's avatar

I believe Steve would butter him up before a series, sure.  Yzerman might have been a better shooter.  But, obviously, Toews has size that allows him to do things Yzerman couldn’t.  Of course, Stevie probably pisses more character every day than Toews has ever had.  For me, it was always as much about how Yzerman carried himself and lead that distinguished him.

Posted by duhduhduh on 06/02/15 at 01:58 PM ET

Royal Grand Exalted PooBah's avatar

Toews has also had the benefit of being on a very good team early in his career where Yzerman had to wait until later.

Posted by Royal Grand Exalted PooBah from the basement of the Alamo on 06/02/15 at 02:19 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

I never cared one way or the other for Toews…I mean…I thought he had decent talent and seemed to step up when his team needed him…until Zetterberg drove him nuts a few years ago and he started acting like a petulant whiny b!tch.

Ever since…it makes me almost want to respect Duncan Elbows Keith more.

Posted by mrfluffy from the phone, calling Detroit, telling them it's on 06/02/15 at 02:20 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Steve Yzerman with an extremely accurate description of Jonathan Toews: “Jonathan’s a bigger, louder and more petty whiner than I could ever be.”

There. Fixed that for Stevie.  smile

The other night, Keith Jones actually called Toes the “greatest center in NHL history.” I almost spit my “pop” all the way across the room.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/02/15 at 02:36 PM ET

nEgativezEro's avatar

I never cared one way or the other for Toews…I mean…I thought he had decent talent and seemed to step up when his team needed him…until Zetterberg drove him nuts a few years ago and he started acting like a petulant whiny b!tch.

It was amazing too that, once his back was against the wall down 3-1, he shut his mouth, focused on hockey, and lead the Blackhawks to an incredibly upsetting comeback (to us) over the Wings.

Yzerman is 7th all-time in scoring. Only 6 people in the history of the game have scored more points. Yzerman almost single-handedly turned around the franchise when he was drafted. He was a scoring phenom until Bowman came about. When that happened, he became one of the best two-way players in the game.

There’s no doubt Toews is an impressive player, cut largely from the same cloth that Yzerman was. I don’t think you can say Toews is better, at least until his career is over. For era-correction, you have to figure Yzerman was about as average sized against his competition as Toews is today. Stevie wasn’t regularly playing against any Charas or Byfugliens.

Posted by nEgativezEro on 06/02/15 at 02:45 PM ET

Avatar

The other night, Keith Jones actually called Toes the “greatest center in NHL history.” I almost spit my “pop” all the way across the room.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/02/15 at 02:36 PM ET

I didn’t catch that comment, but wasn’t Gretzky a center?

Posted by George0211 on 06/02/15 at 02:46 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

I never cared one way or the other for Toews…I mean…I thought he had decent talent and seemed to step up when his team needed him…until Zetterberg drove him nuts a few years ago and he started acting like a petulant whiny b!tch.

Ever since…it makes me almost want to respect Duncan Elbows Keith more.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 06/02/15 at 02:20 PM ET

He had some petulant outbursts this playoff, too. Obviously none of us are in the room, but Keith and Seabrook seem, from what little we can see on the ice and bench during games, to be the guys that generally keep it calm and keep everyone humming the right tune. No disrespect to Toews, who is obviously a great player, but I do think his “leadership” credentials are a tad overblow. He’s also still relatively young. When he’s 35 the persona may end up very deserved.

Toews definitely has been a better all-around player at an earlier point in his career than Stevie, but I think two things are very clear.

First, he’ll never be as explosive offensively as Yzerman was in his prime offensive years, even adjusting for era. It wasn’t like he had those 60 goal years when everyone else was scoring 60… in those years he was still right there with the best of the year, like Lemieux and Gretzky. Toews has never hit 40 goals (and has only hit 30 twice), and has never hit 80 points (and has only hit 70 once). That’s still really great in this era, but it’s not top five offensive players in the league good. That said, maybe he has a couple explosive years ahead of him. I just find it unlikely.

Second, people often forget that while Yzerman developed into a Selke winner later in his career, he still had seasons when he was very young and more offensively focused that the Selke voters at least deemed his defensive responsibilities notable—he finished with Selke votes in ‘88 and ‘89. No, it’s not the same level of D that Toews has been able to play at a much earlier point in his career, but adjusting for the era, and the way the current era puts so much more emphasis on a top line center being a 200 foot player, it’s not too surprising.

Hopefully Toews has 10 (or more) years left, so I realize this is an open book. But if you look at Hockey Reference similarity scores, Yzerman’s comps are basically top-tier HOF players since the ‘50s. Toews’s comps are very good players, but decidedly second tier for their era—Denis Savard, Luc Robataille, Dale Hawerchuk as opposed to Yzerman himself, and current comps like Nick Backstrom, Patrick Kane, and Anze Kopitar… all excellent players in the current game, but all clearly a level behind Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, and Stamkos.

Posted by Nathan from wasting perfect passes from my teammates on 06/02/15 at 02:54 PM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Toews is still a “kid”. If he can do what Stevie did as his career wore on with a very well used up carcass of a body, come talk to me. 2002 says all that needs to be said about who has the heart and soul of an absolute warrior of a man and one helluva hockey player.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 06/02/15 at 03:00 PM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

One big part of Toews game is that patented camp out on the edge of the crease, crosscheck a defenseman to create space, take pass and knock it home.  Something a man of size can do these days when defensemen are a bit handcuffed in their freedom to clear space.  Either way, nothing Stevie was ever going to do.

Posted by duhduhduh on 06/02/15 at 03:05 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Chicago fans are insistent Toews is the best two way player in the NHL.  I just don’t see it - when he’s hot, he’s hot.  But when he’s not, he’s whiny, emotional, and a prick.  Reminds me of Mr. Crosby, actually.

Posted by TreKronor on 06/02/15 at 03:14 PM ET

Avatar

  Reminds me of Mr. Crosby, actually.

I agree. They’re both all-world players who step up in the biggest moments for the respective teams. Leave it to Wings fans to piss and moan about really, really good players who don’t live up to their false ideals about playing the right way, the Red Wing way. I assume that it’s mostly because Toews plays for a much, much better team than Detroit that certain fans don’t like the guy…but he’s about to captain his team to a third Cup at the age of 27 and averages damn near a point-per-game in the playoffs for his career.

Is he better than Yzerman? I don’t even know how anyone could presume to know the answer to that considering they played in completely different eras. Toews is a great player though and the unquestioned leader of a great team.

Posted by godblender on 06/02/15 at 04:01 PM ET

Red Winger's avatar

Posted by godblender on 06/02/15 at 04:01 PM ET


Awwww…is someone mad???

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie, MI on 06/02/15 at 04:03 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Someone’s all butt hurt and stuff

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 06/02/15 at 05:47 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

I assume that it’s mostly because Toews plays for a much, much better team than Detroit that certain fans don’t like the guy…

Posted by godblender on 06/02/15 at 04:01 PM ET

Well, your assumption would be wrong. Toes is a whiney little bitch because, wait for it, he’s a whiney little bitch. I swear that he and that prick Perry have to be related somehow. Not even Crysbaby is as big a whiner as those two – and Crysbaby sets the bar really high.

I think TreKroner said it perfectly…

...when he’s hot, he’s hot.  But when he’s not, he’s whiny, emotional, and a prick.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/02/15 at 06:40 PM ET

Avatar

Awwww…is someone mad???

Someone’s all butt hurt and stuff

You two must not have understood anything that I wrote in my previous post.

I swear that he and that prick Perry

Honest to christ…I was expecting someone to mention Corey Perry as well, despite there being no relevance whatsoever.. Haha.

Say what you want but if Detroit had some “whiny little bitches” with the skill of Toews, Perry or Crosby maybe they wouldn’t barely squeak into the playoffs and get bounced in the first or second round. But I suppose it’s better to have the kind of upstanding players that Detroit has who either don’t have anywhere near the skill set of the aforementioned or are too old/injury prone to be particularly effective any more.

Lastly, if you’re a Wings fan you might consider Johan Franzen, who is easily one of the whiniest and bitchiest players that has donned an NHL sweater in recent years.

Posted by godblender on 06/02/15 at 07:11 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Honest to christ…I was expecting someone to mention Corey Perry as well, despite there being no relevance whatsoever.. Haha.

Posted by godblender

Well, again, you’d be wrong – which is surprising since you claim to be “god.”

The relevance is that both Toes and Perry are whiney little bitches. I’m surprised that “god” couldn’t figure that out.

...I suppose it’s better to have the kind of upstanding players that Detroit has who either don’t have anywhere near the skill set of the aforementioned or are too old/injury prone to be particularly effective any more.

Wow. You actually played the “too old” card. I’m beginning to doubt the existence of “god” based on that nonsense.

The Wings have guys with more than enough skill, just like Toes and Perry. Here’s the difference. Despite Holland’s incompetence in many areas, at least he’s man enough to refuse to employ the dirty little pricks of the league like Toes and Perry.

Lastly, if you’re a Wings fan you might consider Johan Franzen, who is easily one of the whiniest and bitchiest players that has donned an NHL sweater in recent years.

Franzen was a guy who never played “up” to his size. He avoided contact and skated away from confrontations. So, maybe he was a “pussy” in some people’s minds. But he was never a whiner or a dirty player like Toes or Perry.

But, hey, you keep living in your delusional world, god. The rest of us will stick with what we see in the real world.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/02/15 at 08:57 PM ET

blammo's avatar

Let me tell you what Toews thinks of your opinions after being completed by Mr. Yzerman:

Posted by blammo from Vancouver, BC on 06/02/15 at 09:26 PM ET

Kate-made in Detroit's avatar

Steve Yzerman with extremely high praise for Jonathan Toews: “Jonathan’s bigger, stronger, better.”

Who’s Yzerman describing? Steve Austin? tongue wink

Seriously, though, for my money,  twenny-cent and Keith are real good hockey players.

Lets Go Hockey!!!!! wink

Posted by Kate-made in Detroit on 06/02/15 at 09:36 PM ET

AzWingsFan's avatar

Like most Chicago fans the talk a lot because they are winning. Just wait a couple of years and they will go back to doing whatever it is Blackhawks fans do when they get off the band wagon.  As to compare towes to Yzerman? Toews is a very talented player, but you cannot compare as Yzerman was a gifted offensive player who redefined his game to become an elite 2 way player.  Toews will never have to change his game so we will never know how good he is when forced out of his comfort zone. Let’s also see how he handles playing for a losing team in a couple of years and see if he is still talked about as one of the greatest ever.

Posted by AzWingsFan on 06/02/15 at 10:19 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

Chicago fans are insistent Toews is the best two way player in the NHL.  I just don’t see it - when he’s hot, he’s hot.  But when he’s not, he’s whiny, emotional, and a prick.  Reminds me of Mr. Crosby, actually.

That really sums up how I feel about these two whiners and divers. It would be nice if someone cane up with a T Shirt with the 2 whiners complaining about Zetterberg checking them too close. It be a nice shirt to wear when either of the two crybabies in town. angry

Posted by bigfrog on 06/02/15 at 10:27 PM ET

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