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Trading Jeff Petry

from Jim Matheson of the Edmonton Journal,

When you’re at the bottom rung of the National Hockey League ladder, it’s pretty obvious you’re a seller at the trade deadline — especially with guys who can walk away on July 1, no strings attached.

Which brings us to Jeff Petry. The Edmonton Oilers defenceman is in the prime of his career, but he’s due to become an unrestricted free agent following this season.

The clock’s ticking loudly on Petry — if there’s no traction on a long-term deal from his side or from Oilers general manager Craig MacTavish, he’s out the door by the trade deadline March 5, 21 games from now.

Chances are he’ll head to the Detroit Red Wings or to the Pittsburgh Penguins or to any team looking for one of those rare birds: a right-handed shooting defenceman who can skate and who has lots left on his odometer at age 27.

Rentals, outside big names such as Jarome Iginla when he left Calgary for Pittsburgh, normally bring back second-round draft picks or prospects at the deadline, but if a team feels they can sign a player before July 1, often they’ll give up more than one piece. Petry doesn’t want to think about the trade deadline, though.

continued

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MsRedWinger's avatar

Ooooooh!  A right-hand-shooting defenseman and Dan Petry’s son?  Would love for the Wings to get him.

Posted by MsRedWinger from the State where Tigers roam in the Spring on 01/13/15 at 10:09 AM ET

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I’m not sure how I feel about the Wings potentially getting him.  He’s been horrible as an Oiler, but, well, he was an Oiler, so maybe it’s just that.  Also, would he be an upgrade over a guy like Marchenko, Sproul or Jensen?  Because he’d be definitely stopping them from being promoted any time soon.  If we could con the Oilers into taking Kindl or Smith then I’m all for it, but I don’t think we get Petry unless it’s for a Marchenko, Sproul or Jensen and/or a decent pick.

The more I think about it, the more I’m feeling like the D we have now is the D we’re going into the playoffs with.

Posted by Wise1 on 01/13/15 at 11:27 AM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

Problem is, there ain’t no point in going after Petry unless you want to slot him top-4, which means one of Kronner/E/Quincey/DDK/Smith goes.  So, pick one.

Posted by duhduhduh on 01/13/15 at 11:27 AM ET

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Like, I get that there’s value in a RH shot and an offensive-defenseman, but we already have 3 (some may say 4) 2nd-pair defensemen. Do we need another?

Posted by VitoLambruski on 01/13/15 at 11:40 AM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

Like, I get that there’s value in a RH shot and an offensive-defenseman, but we already have 3 (some may say 4) 2nd-pair defensemen. Do we need another?

To say we already have them is not to say that one of them can’t be replaced.  Maybe that’s a real problem that could be remedied.  I find myself looking to the most recent Pistons example: they removed their highest paid player and improved the team immensely.  Maybe it’s just chemistry.

Posted by duhduhduh on 01/13/15 at 11:51 AM ET

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So, pick one.

Easy.  E.  Or Smith.  Whichever.

Also, would he be an upgrade over a guy like Marchenko, Sproul or Jensen?

Yes.  He’s an NHL defensemen, they are not.  If they were, one of them would’ve been called up ahead of Ouellet.

Having players in Grand Rapids who couldn’t crack the Detroit roster is no reason not to try and upgrade the Detroit roster.

Because he’d be definitely stopping them from being promoted any time soon.

There are already eight defensemen stopping them from being promoted any time soon, I don’t see how improving the NHL roster they have is a bad thing.

I don’t think we get Petry unless it’s for a Marchenko, Sproul or Jensen and/or a decent pick.

IMHO, that’s insanity.

The more I think about it, the more I’m feeling like the D we have now is the D we’re going into the playoffs with.

You’re probably right, but I don’t think that’s a good thing.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 12:07 PM ET

Russian Rocket's avatar

I know the Wings have been linked to Petry for a while but don’t get the inclusion of Pittsburgh. They have a surplus of D men and prospects already. The only real attraction here would be the RH shot but I do think that tends to be more of a luxury than a necessity especially if the player isn’t going to see PP time.

Posted by Russian Rocket on 01/13/15 at 12:36 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

I mostly agree with Garth.

Trading one of the prospect D for Petry is basically risk mitigation. It would be trading a guy that might have a higher ceiling than Petry for the (relative) guarantee of getting a player that is already proven at the NHL level, and that you’d be happy if one of those prospects developed into.

That said, yeah, it probably costs something on top of one of those guys, which is not necessarily too much, but it does depend on re-signing him. I’m not a fan of the Wings renting players right now. Yes, they’re playing pretty well, but I don’t believe they are in rental territory. They’ve restocked the system and made what appear to be some great 1st round picks recently. If you trade for Petry, I think you trade for him to keep him around long-term, which means you need a dance partner to take Kindl, or possibly Quincey, or you’ve given up on Brendan Smith (which despite all the Smith hate above, I think would be foolish).

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 01/13/15 at 12:58 PM ET

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Trading one of the prospect D for Petry is basically risk mitigation. It would be trading a guy that might have a higher ceiling than Petry for the (relative) guarantee of getting a player that is already proven at the NHL level, and that you’d be happy if one of those prospects developed into.

Unless the Wings are big enough on Petry to arrange a trade & sign I struggle to see how getting a D rental for less than half a season (it takes time to learn a system) is worth a prospect with any NHL upside; especially ones that are in later stages of development. 

 

Posted by neffernin on 01/13/15 at 01:20 PM ET

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or you’ve given up on Brendan Smith (which despite all the Smith hate above, I think would be foolish).

That’s another thing.  The Wings have had basically the same corps for a few years and it doesn’t seem to be working all that well.  Smith isn’t progressing the way we hoped, Ericsson is regressing.  I don’t see any reason not to at least try shaking things up.  What’s the worst that could happen?  You make the playoffs and then lose in four games rather than five?  Whereas the upside could be pretty good.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 01:22 PM ET

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Unless the Wings are big enough on Petry to arrange a trade & sign I struggle to see how getting a D rental for less than half a season (it takes time to learn a system) is worth a prospect with any NHL upside; especially ones that are in later stages of development.

Well, there’s literally no way that all of their “later stages of development” defense prospects will be playing on the Wings next year, I’ll ask a question:

What’s better, to trade a prospect for immediate help that may or may not end up being longterm help or losing that prospect to the waiver wire because there isn’t room on the roster for him?

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 01:24 PM ET

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I really don’t understand all the Ericsson hate.  Yes the guy isn’t as good as some of us thought he might be, and yes, he’s prone to making some boneheaded plays, but I think it’s mostly because he’s asked to be something he’s not.  He’s just not a top pair D in this league.  Period.  If he was asked to be on a second or third pairing then he’d be great.  Going up against top opponents every night isn’t good for him.

We need a top pair D man!  Anything short of that and we shouldn’t even bother.  Unless of course it’s to get rid of Smith or Kindl.  I’ll swap either of those turds for Petry any day of the week.

Posted by Wise1 on 01/13/15 at 02:20 PM ET

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Of course Petry’s better than the Grand Rapids kids.  He’s also better, this season, than Ericsson or Kindl or Lashoff and probably better than Smith.

Of course acquiring a defenseman who’d be better than a guy currently in our top six makes us a better team, even if he winds up on the third pairing.

Of course we could simply pair him with Kronwall and slide Ericsson to the third pairing.  He might excel with more limited minutes.

Of course our current defensive corps isn’t good enough to win a Cup.

Of course acquiring an upgrade means adding a body.  I mean, this is a tautology.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 02:25 PM ET

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I really don’t understand all the Ericsson hate.  Yes the guy isn’t as good as some of us thought he might be, and yes, he’s prone to making some boneheaded plays, but I think it’s mostly because he’s asked to be something he’s not.  He’s just not a top pair D in this league.  Period.  If he was asked to be on a second or third pairing then he’d be great.  Going up against top opponents every night isn’t good for him.

Posted by Wise1 on 01/13/15 at 01:20 PM ET

I think most of the hate is on Babcock for refusing to change the defensive pairings. And yes I know there isnt much Babcock can choose from, but nevertheless when you see someone struggling like Ericsson has been, it’s probably time to change something.
I’ve mentioned this in another thread a couple days ago, Why not try Smith with Kronwall, that worked pretty well last season and slide Ericsson to 3rd pair with Ouellett.

As far as Petry goes, I would assume if there was a deal to be made it would have been made by now. I can’t image Oilers not willing to trade him, so either Wings aren’t very big on him or the price is way too high.

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 02:34 PM ET

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I really don’t understand all the Ericsson hate.  Yes the guy isn’t as good as some of us thought he might be, and yes, he’s prone to making some boneheaded plays, but I think it’s mostly because he’s asked to be something he’s not.  He’s just not a top pair D in this league.  Period.  If he was asked to be on a second or third pairing then he’d be great.  Going up against top opponents every night isn’t good for him.

You’ve just listed all the reasons people aren’t happy with Ericsson after asking why people aren’t happy with him.

I don’t think anyone would argue that the fault lies with the GM who has been derelict in improving the team and the coach who is using Ericsson improperly, but when it comes down to it he’s the guy on the ice playing like crap.  And a lot of what he’s doing is just not thinking before he acts.  He makes a lot of mistakes that have little to nothing to do with the competition he’s facing.  Skating unmolested up the ice and firing off a terrible pass, for instance.

We need a top pair D man!  Anything short of that and we shouldn’t even bother.

We do need a top pair D man, but anyone who would pair better with Kronwall would be worth picking up.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 02:34 PM ET

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Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 01:34 PM ET

Teams wait until the deadline to make deals all the time.  It’s optimal for cap purposes and Edmonton probably wants as much time as possible to try to re-sign him.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 02:36 PM ET

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As far as Petry goes, I would assume if there was a deal to be made it would have been made by now. I can’t image Oilers not willing to trade him, so either Wings aren’t very big on him or the price is way too high.

Everything that I’ve read is that Edmonton would still like to re-sign him, so it’s not as cut and dried as you say.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 02:37 PM ET

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Teams wait until the deadline to make deals all the time.  It’s optimal for cap purposes and Edmonton probably wants as much time as possible to try to re-sign him.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 01:36 PM ET

Well, from everything that I’ve read about Petry there doesn’t seem to be any attemps to get him resigned. And I would assume, Petry himself wants to go to free agency seeing how D-men hit it big every year. IMO, and of course it’s just a speculation, is that asking price is way too high.
Of course prices will only go up at the deadline

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 02:39 PM ET

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Everything that I’ve read is that Edmonton would still like to re-sign him, so it’s not as cut and dried as you say.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 01:37 PM ET

I’m sure it’s not, all of us are just speculating.

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 02:40 PM ET

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The asking price will go down at the deadline, because if Petry isn’t traded at the deadline Edmonton loses him for nothing.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 02:44 PM ET

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The asking price will go down at the deadline, because if Petry isn’t traded at the deadline Edmonton loses him for nothing.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 01:44 PM ET

Unless you have 5 different teams calling looking for a right handed D-man.

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 02:45 PM ET

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For all of Ericsson’s short comings, he’s still a billion, no, a trillion times better than Smith.  Smith’s the stupidest, most irresponsible player on the entire team.  I’d rather have Lashoff in there than Smith, and it’s not even close.  Any time he has a shift that’s not a complete unmitigated disaster, every wants to applaud the guy.  He has no feel for the game.  He’s physical when he doesn’t need to be, and soft when he should get physical.  He’s constantly trying stupid passes that end up in an icing.  He puts his teammates into horrible situations with suicide passes.  THE GUY SHOULDN’T BE PLAYING HOCKEY!!!  It wasn’t that long ago that the organization was thinking about making him into a forward because his defensive play was so atrocious.  He hasn’t shown any substantial improvement, and in fact, I’d argue he’s found a way to regress.  And to top it all off he’s going to be an RFA this off season which means he’s going to land a Kindl type of deal and we’ll be stuck with this bum for the next 3 years.  Mark my words, the way everyone is talking about Kindl right now is exactly the way we’ll all be talking about Smith in two years.  Well, if he was European that is.

Posted by Wise1 on 01/13/15 at 02:45 PM ET

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Unless you have 5 different teams calling looking for a right handed D-man.

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 01:45 PM ET

Respectfully, no, that’s not right.  As long as the number of teams who want a right-handed D-man is the same at the deadline as it is presently, that’s won’t make a difference.  Either way it’s 5 teams who all want one of the same guys from a limited pool.

Now, if a contender were to lose a right-handed defenseman to a season-ending injury two days before the deadline, then that new participant in the bidding would drive the price up, and it makes sense for sellers to bide their time in hopes of such an event.

 

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 02:50 PM ET

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Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 01:50 PM ET

Not necessarily true. Supply and demand. Contenders always look to upgrade on D at the deadline and no always due to injury. So there is a very good chance, that number of teams interested in someone like Petry increases at the deadline, which will increase the demand and drive the price up.

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 02:53 PM ET

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Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 01:53 PM ET

You’re missing how supply and demand work altogether.

If it were true that “contenders always look to upgrade on d at the deadline” then it would be known to be true.  E.g., the market would already include that information in the price for Jeff Petry.  Indeed, it does already include that information, which is why his price will not rise at the deadline unless new information enters the market.

It might fall at the deadline, however, because there will be new information that adversely effects his price, e.g., that Edmonton has failed to sign him.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 02:57 PM ET

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For all of Ericsson’s short comings, he’s still a billion, no, a trillion times better than Smith.

Smith’s not on the top pairing though.

AND Smith gets called out or has his icetime affected by how he plays.  He may not sit like he should sometimes, but Babcock plays Ericsson 20+ minutes a game pretty much no matter what.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 03:00 PM ET

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Babcock plays Ericsson 20+ minutes a game pretty much no matter what.

What are his options?  Should he put Q on the top pair?  Should he bench E for Kindl?

IMHO, DeKeyser is a top pair D in the making.  In a couple of years he’ll be leading the D in minutes played.  But not yet.  Ericsson is the best option right now to be paired with Kronwall.  If we could get a Myers then maybe he could be paired with Kronwall or paired with DeKeyser and give them more minutes.

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Myers
Quincey-Ouellet

Lashoff as the 7th D, Kindl selling tickets at the gate, Smith as part of the ice crew with the shovels at the outdoor games.

In a couple of years that DeKeyser-Myers combo might be one of the best in the league.

Posted by Wise1 on 01/13/15 at 03:11 PM ET

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But not yet.  Ericsson is the best option right now to be paired with Kronwall.

Why not yet?  Why is Ericsson the best option?  Babcock himself has already said that Q/D is the best pairing, so why not pair one of them (either one, frankly) with Kronwall?  Or Ouellet, even, if they don’t want to break up the “best pairing”?

There, three options other than Ericsson.

Everyone seems to agree that Detroit has one top-pairing guy and probably three second-pairing guys, so why is only one second-pairing guy getting a chance, especially when the one guy who is getting a chance seems to be doing everything he can to prove that he doesn’t deserve it?

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 03:57 PM ET

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Quincey? for Petry? No way, not anymore, He’s been playing well and Qtip and Tits have been our top D. There’s no way I trade jack squat for a player who almost CERTAINTLY will not stay in Edm, so I just try to sign him in July. That or move Kindl for Petry.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 01/13/15 at 04:17 PM ET

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Posted by Pasha1277 on 01/13/15 at 03:17 PM ET

Well, the problem with the “wait until July” mentality is that the team doesn’t improve between now and the playoffs and, most likely, has another early exit.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 04:19 PM ET

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Everyone seems to agree that Detroit has one top-pairing guy and probably three second-pairing guys, so why is only one second-pairing guy getting a chance, especially when the one guy who is getting a chance seems to be doing everything he can to prove that he doesn’t deserve it?

I honestly cannot answer that question, only Babcock can.

I might even go a step further and say the Wings have ZERO top pair defensemen.

I’m really surprised he hasn’t at least tried Smith with Kronwall again. It really did seem to elevate Smith’s game last year. Maybe the concern is not with Smith but with Kronwall?

Kronwall’s most valuable asset is his leadership. Are the Wings over valuing that?

Posted by evileye on 01/13/15 at 04:25 PM ET

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so I just try to sign him in July.

That’s great but, you know it’s January right?  And that we need help now?

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 04:26 PM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

I would gladly see E or Smith moved for Petry.  And, if Petry was in the fold, I might even not feel bad if Kronner got some nights on second pairing.  Or maybe it’s not even that. Maybe it’s just that Kronner needs the break from being completely careful all the time.  When he assumed the ‘Top Dman’ throne, he lost some of the free-form aggressiveness that made him special.

Posted by duhduhduh on 01/13/15 at 04:26 PM ET

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I might even go a step further and say the Wings have ZERO top pair defensemen.

I would argue that Kronwall is a top-pairing defenseman, just not a #1.

I honestly cannot answer that question, only Babcock can.

And his answer is to not address it at all, which I guess is a valid response.

Are the Wings over valuing that?

The Wings overvalue most things associated with the Wings.

Posted by Garth on 01/13/15 at 04:28 PM ET

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Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 01:57 PM ET

So you think someone like Legwand would have cost the same as what Wings paid for him if he were traded at some other time? That’s absolutely not true. Most of the time teams overpay at the deadline.
In any case, both you and I are speculating over the price going up or down.

 

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 04:39 PM ET

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Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 03:39 PM ET

No, I think Detroit lost Pavel Datsyuk and Darren Helm two days before the trade deadline—exactly the scenario I mentioned above with respect to a contender losing a right-handed defenseman—which was “new information on the market.”  Detroit went from being in the market for a defenseman to being in the market for a center in 48 hours, which, yes, led to a sharp increase in price.

Most of the time teams overpay at the deadline.

Is this true?

Which of last year’s deadline deals was an “overpayment”?

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 04:45 PM ET

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Kronwall is good.  Very, very good in fact.  I agree that he’s being more careful than he was in the past, but the only thing that’s really changed is that he’s stopped going for the big hit now, which is a real shame.

For anyone asking to breakup the Q-DD combo, might I remind you how horrific Q looked with Smith last year?  He’s finally playing well, and some of you want to screw with that?  I wouldn’t so much as glance in his direction if I were Babcock.  Q should be looked at like a deer in the woods.  No sudden movements or you might scare him away.

If DD is paired with Kronwall then where does that leave everyone else?  Q with Smith?  E with Ouellet? 

And putting Ouellet on the top pair is about the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a long long time.  I’m a BIG Ouellet fan, but he’s just starting his career!  If you want to expose and destroy the guy then you’d put him on the top pair.

No, either we trade for a legit top pair guy, or it’s Kronwall and E as the top pair.

I don’t want to ‘experiment’ with this ‘Petrydish’ as a top guy given how awful he’s been in Edmonton the past few years.

Posted by Wise1 on 01/13/15 at 04:47 PM ET

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Which of last year’s deadline deals was an “overpayment”?

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 03:45 PM ET

And which team underpaid in your opinion. It goes both ways. Depending on different reasons. Right shooting D-men are somewhat of a rarity in the league, hence my point that the price will most likely go up at the deadline.

 

Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 04:47 PM ET

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And which team underpaid in your opinion

LA.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 04:48 PM ET

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Right shooting D-men are somewhat of a rarity in the league, hence my point that the price will most likely go up at the deadline.

 Posted by George0211 on 01/13/15 at 03:47 PM ET

If they’re a rarity in the league, then they’re a rarity in the league all the time..  None of the 30 GMs is going to suddenly realize that right-handed defensemen are rare because it’s the deadline.

Getting a right-handed top-four defenseman was too expensive on July 1, 2014.  And on March 5, 2014.  And on July 1, 2013.  And on March 5th (or whenever) 2013.  And on July 1, 2012…

it’s always going to be “too expensive” if you let yourself believe that as an excuse.  And a defense built that way will always be mediocre, because it’s afraid to pay the price to improve.

Posted by captaineclectic on 01/13/15 at 04:51 PM ET

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