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More Pressure On Paul Stastny

from Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post,

All Avalanche center Paul Stastny has riding on this game is $20 million. Or is it $30 million? And if an athlete refuses to choke on such immense pressure, doesn't he deserve to be richly rewarded?

This is Stastny's time to be a money player.

By its very definition, Game 7 of an NHL playoff series is a must win.

But nobody needs to beat the Minnesota Wild more than Stastny. He will be an unrestricted free agent this summer. Who knows? If the Avs lose, Stastny could be wearing a Colorado sweater for the last time.

"You don't know. I don't know, either," Stastny said Tuesday. "Sometimes you think about it a little bit ..."

Here's the truth: During the final year of his contract, new Avalanche management needed to win over Stastny more than the veteran center needed to prove his worth. If not for a remarkable team turnaround, there would be little chance for Colorado to retain Stastny.

continued

Filed in: NHL Teams, Colorado Avalanche, Minnesota Wild, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: paul+stastny

Comments

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Well.. I would love to get Statsny in a red sweater… whew.. However, I heard Mickey Redmond on the radio yesterday and he said that there’s a good chance that Nashville (getting rid of their coach and all) will trade Shea Weber. Mickey believes the red wings will go VERY hard for Weber if this is the case and he expects we would need to trade something like this, Franzen, Tartar, Sproul and a 1st or 2nd pick… But I would honestly give ANYONE for Weber, not named Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall or Dekyser. We may need to throw in a sheahan or something too. I don’t know…

Discuss…

Posted by Pasha1277 on 04/30/14 at 09:04 AM ET

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Franzen, Tartar, Sproul and a 1st or 2nd pick

If that’s true about Weber, the price above is actually not bad.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 09:52 AM ET

NIVO's avatar

I think the price is just too high. Its gutting the team for one player. And there go our high draft picks…...again. Sure we could use a D man of this caliber, but they are gonna want the stars moon and sun. I think Holland said something already to the effect of not wanting to be “development stop” for everyone else in the league. I think that speaks volumes. But…....“I don’t know” smile

Posted by NIVO from underpants gnome village on 04/30/14 at 09:53 AM ET

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I think the price is just too high. Its gutting the team for one player.

Seriously?  That’s two roster players, one of whom appears to be on his way out anyway, a prospect and a pick for a three time Norris finalist in his prime?  Holy sh!t, I would make that deal any day of the week.  Hell, I’d insist they take Kindl too.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 10:04 AM ET

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Yeah I’m not sure to be honest. I know Nashville didn’t necessarily want to spend the money on him if they are going to rebuild. Weber requires nearly a 10mil/yr cap for the team, that’s 3 decent players if you are looking to rebuild.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 04/30/14 at 10:11 AM ET

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@ Garth

I sort of agree here. The Wings NEED the top D.. Could you imagine our blue line with Weber/dekyser, kronwall/erricson, then smitty / Quincey? I would definitely give up Franzen. Would be sad to loose tats but c’mon, we need a D that can solidfy our back end, help on the PP.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 04/30/14 at 10:16 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Seriously?  That’s two roster players, one of whom appears to be on his way out anyway, a prospect and a pick for a three time Norris finalist in his prime?  Holy sh!t, I would make that deal any day of the week.  Hell, I’d insist they take Kindl too.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 10:04 AM ET

Which means it’s not even close to what it’d actually take to get Weber if a league-wide offseason bidding “war” erupted. Look at what the Wings had to trade for Legwand and multiply by 2.5 to 3.

Nyquist, Tatar, Marchenko, a 1st and a 2nd.

And that’s probably not nearly enough ... I just don’t know how many roster players you can trade away. Weber’s a Norris winner and I know reviled by a lot, but the dude is a fuchin’ beast of a player and would radically upgrade any team he went to.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 10:38 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Also, guys, they would only get rid of Weber if they were doing a complete rebuild. What. The. Fuch. Would they want with Franzen? This isn’t NHL14, no one wants your players that you wouldn’t miss. You have to give up the sort of players that would make every wail and gnash their teeth.

Shit, it’d probably take Mantha or at the very least Pulkkinen. Still want Weber?

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 10:41 AM ET

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HHmmmm… I don’t know if I’d give up Nyquist, tartar, mantha, marchenko, franzen and 1st/2nd. That seems like more MONEY oFF the books than on? Makes no sense. I highly doubt any time in the league gives away something like what you’re suggesting. I trust Mickey on this one, He said probably Franzen, (nike OR tats), a sheahan (OR sproul etc.) and one pick. That right there makes a decent 2nd line on Nashville, if not 1st line…

Posted by Pasha1277 on 04/30/14 at 10:46 AM ET

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Hell, I’d insist they take Kindl too.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 10:04 AM ET

LOL. I was thinking the same exact thing.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 10:52 AM ET

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Look at what the Wings had to trade for Legwand and multiply by 2.5 to 3.

You don’t think a 25-goal scorer, a 20-goal scorer who isn’t yet in his prime and a high end defensive prospect is 2.5-3x what they gave up for Legwand, which was a 2nd rounder, a guy they demoted to the AHL and a guy who potentially had no future in the organization?

Weber’s a Norris winner

No he isn’t.

Also, guys, they would only get rid of Weber if they were doing a complete rebuild.

Not necessarily.  There has been speculation since the day they matched the offer sheet (hell, there was talk before they matched it) that he would be gone in a couple of years because they simply can’t afford to be paying $14M a year to one player.

What. The. Fuch. Would they want with Franzen?

Because they can use a winger who can score and because he has a small cap hit relative to his production and because they will never have to pay him double or anything close to double what his cap hit is.

This isn’t NHL14, no one wants your players that you wouldn’t miss.

You’re right.  It’s the real world where the fact that a fanbase is frustrated with a player doesn’t mean that player has no value in the league.

Scott Gomez was traded.  Brian Campbell was traded.  Roberto Luongo was traded.

Franzen is still a good cap hit for his production and a change of scenery could just be what he needs.  Just ask Valtteri Filppula.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 11:04 AM ET

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That right there makes a decent 2nd line on Nashville, if not 1st line…

That’s a good point.  Franzen and Tatar at least would make for some good second line scoring, Sproul would put another good young defense prospect in their system and a pick is a pick.

That would actually be a pretty damn good return.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 11:09 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Garth, what I was saying about Franzen is why would they want someone his age and with his reputation. If I were the GM of Nashville I’m going with a youth rebuild. So Tatar, Nyquist, Pulky, etc. versus aging winger like Franzen who doesn’t fit into the rebuilding plan at all. The other problem with Franzen too is that he’s fine on a veteran team like the Wings, but could you imagine him as the elder statesman in a locker room? Talk about a bad example for the kids.

As for the Norris talk, I guess I was crystal balling 2014? Okay, I actually thought he’d won it before, my bad.

Maybe that is 2.5-3x what they gave up for Legwand. I just know that whenever we predict what a trade will take, including my pessimistic ass, it still ends up being more. If you would have asked me what Legwand would have required I’d have said Eaves, Kindl, and a 2nd. Sigh.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 11:16 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Franzen gives them leadership and veteran presence of someone who has been deep in the playoffs multiple times. Young rebuilding squads benefit from old timers showing them how it is done.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 04/30/14 at 11:25 AM ET

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If I were the GM of Nashville I’m going with a youth rebuild.

Good youth plus veteran scoring is a better way to rebuild than simply going the youth angle.  Ask Edmonton where you get by simply rebuilding with youth.

They also need to reach the cap floor.  Trading away an $8M cap hit and bringing back $2-3M in salary means they still have to go out and sign someone to replace a big chunk of Weber’s cap hit.  Not to mention that for most of the remainder of his contract he’ll actually be making less than his cap hit, which is good for a budget team.

The other problem with Franzen too is that he’s fine on a veteran team like the Wings, but could you imagine him as the elder statesman in a locker room?

I would argue that he’s not fine on a veteran team.  He can coast behind two great players and not worry too much about his production.  Maybe having actual responsibility, not being able to rely on players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, will do good for him.  It seems to have worked for Filppula. 

Franzen’s play markedly improved during his short stints as a centre instead of a winger this year.  Maybe he goes to Nashville and becomes their second line centre and he flourishes.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 11:29 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

The article about Stastny turns to Weber, Franzen, Tatar, and Legwand…...

Oh, what the heck, I’ll join in.  I wouldn’t give up Tatar or Nyquist for Weber.  Actually, I wouldn’t give them up for most anything.  After Z and Dats are gone, I think scoring responsibility is going to fall on Tatar and Nyquist, and hopefully Mantha. I’d hate to see us trade away the scorers and playmakers of our future.  But that’s just me.  There are many sides to this argument.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/30/14 at 11:41 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Funny how this was a Stastny article, but somehow turned into Weber-bation.

Posted by Hootinani on 04/30/14 at 11:43 AM ET

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I wouldn’t give up Tatar or Nyquist for Weber.  Actually, I wouldn’t give them up for most anything.  After Z and Dats are gone, I think scoring responsibility is going to fall on Tatar and Nyquist, and hopefully Mantha. I’d hate to see us trade away the scorers and playmakers of our future.  But that’s just me.  There are many sides to this argument.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/30/14 at 11:41 AM ET

But also think of the leadership roles on the team. After Pav and Z are gone, do you really think of Tatar and Nyquist as the team leaders? I dont. Weber is only 28 and he’d be around for a while.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 11:43 AM ET

SK77's avatar

I would argue that he’s not fine on a veteran team.  He can coast behind two great players and not worry too much about his production.  Maybe having actual responsibility, not being able to rely on players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, will do good for him.  It seems to have worked for Filppula. 

Franzen’s play markedly improved during his short stints as a centre instead of a winger this year.  Maybe he goes to Nashville and becomes their second line centre and he flourishes.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 11:29 AM ET

How many times did Franzen get called out by Babcock? Didn’t do diddly squat. Only thing that seems to get Franzen going is when he plays centre, as you pointed out.

As for Filppula, yeah, fannnn-tastic(!) regular season and then did diddly-squat in the playoffs. Not sure how that’s anything new for him.

You’re right about the cap floor for Nashville and it gets better for Franzen as I think his actual salary becomes ridiculously low in a season or two, while his cap hit is still the same, thank you back-diving contract.

I still don’t see brooding, quiet, Franzen as a good veteran in the locker room though. Can you imagine him standing up and giving a rah-rah speech that inspires his team to play harder and fight through adversity?

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 11:44 AM ET

SK77's avatar

I also think you go after Weber because you’re trying to win one more cup with Pavel & Hank. Hence mortgaging part of your future in trading a Nyquist/Tatar. Sigh.

It’s going to be a long frickin’ summer made especially hard by the fact I’m actually looking forward to next season for the first time in a long time. Past seasons it’s been all about retreads and bargain bin pickups, not so much anymore ...

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 11:47 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

But also think of the leadership roles on the team. After Pav and Z are gone, do you really think of Tatar and Nyquist as the team leaders? I dont. Weber is only 28 and he’d be around for a while.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 11:43 AM ET

Who knows.  I will fully admit that I was not too keen on Z taking over the C after Lidstrom retired, but I have been nothing but astonished and impressed with how he leads this team.  Ultimately, I’d hope Z inspires the next wave of leaders on the team by his actions and words, and from what I read it appears he does.  But we, as innocent readers of media and blogs, have a hard time understanding what happens behind closed doors, and the kind of character Tatar and Nyquist have. 

But I’d hardly consider giving up some fine young players for Weber just because he may make a good leader/captain some day.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/30/14 at 11:51 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Past seasons it’s been all about retreads and bargain bin pickups, not so much anymore ...

Why, did Holland retire?

Posted by Hootinani on 04/30/14 at 12:08 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Past seasons it’s been all about retreads and bargain bin pickups, not so much anymore ...

Why, did Holland retire?

Posted by Hootinani on 04/30/14 at 12:08 PM ET

I’m excited to see what “the kids” can do with another season under their belt and hopefully a few less injuries.

I’m not excited for another season of posters continually bitching and moaning about how “the kids” get buried for guys like Cleary and Samuelsson ... even though that stopped being a reality pretty quick this year.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:17 PM ET

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Only thing that seems to get Franzen going is when he plays centre, as you pointed out.

And on a team that isn’t overflowing the centres, why not put him there?

Can you imagine him standing up and giving a rah-rah speech that inspires his team to play harder and fight through adversity?

No, but I can’t imagine Lidstrom doing that either.  Or Zetterberg.  Or Datsyuk.

Hence mortgaging part of your future in trading a Nyquist/Tatar. Sigh.

Ok, let’s be real here.  Mortgaging the future?  If nothing else, this year we’ve seen that Detroit has a bright future with the young forwards they have.  I can’t imagine that trading one of them for one of the best defensemen in the world is mortgaging the future.  If you trade Tatar and Sproul (for instance) there are still a number of young forward prospects and the likes of Marchenko, Ouellet and Almquist as defensive prospects.  Plus?  Three-time Norris finalist.

I refuse to believe that you think that’s a worse future than what the Wings have right now as their future.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:25 PM ET

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I’m not excited for another season of posters continually bitching and moaning about how “the kids” get buried for guys like Cleary and Samuelsson ... even though that stopped being a reality pretty quick this year.

Well, that complaining is going to happen until Babcock and Holland actually decide to play kids over veterans of their own accord, not because of injuries.

I suspect that is the case this year, but I’m not making a judgement call until I actually see it happen.  Remember how everyone was talking about the wings “embracing the youth movement” last summer?  Then Cleary was re-signed and Tatar was in the press box because “tie goes to the veteran” and “this isn’t a league for kids”.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:27 PM ET

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Why is everyone who cries mortgaging the future forgets that Weber is 28 years old, not 38.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 12:30 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Well, that complaining is going to happen until Babcock and Holland actually decide to play kids over veterans of their own accord, not because of injuries.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:27 PM ET

To start the playoffs Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, and Tootoo, were all riding pine (or injured .. unsure of real status of Cleary & Samuelsson). Once the kids established themselves, thanks to injuries during the season, the entire way Babcock & Holland talked about the kids completely changed.

I realize they screwed the pooch on sending the kids back to the AHL to start the season, and Holland and Babcock both talked about veterans over kids, but they actually changed their stance on that. They did what we all bitched and whined about wanting, so why keep flogging it and acting like nothing changed?

As for veteran presence material – Zetterberg & Lidstrom are in a league of their own. They spoke in the locker room with authority and their play spoke volumes on the ice. Pavel speaks with his determination on the ice. And then you’ve got Franzen. Fuchin’ loafer through and through.

Zetterberg goes into the room in street clothes during the playoffs and still manages to inspire the team. Do you think anyone would blink if Franzen showed up? Hell no.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:36 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Why is everyone who cries mortgaging the future forgets that Weber is 28 years old, not 38.

Well, 27/28/29 tend to be the golden years for professional athletes.  I’d say a star Dman probably peaks around this time, and doesn’t start a decline until 33.  So, we’d hope to get some good years out of him.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/30/14 at 12:38 PM ET

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To start the playoffs Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, and Tootoo, were all riding pine (or injured .. unsure of real status of Cleary & Samuelsson).

And for the most part that is exactly what happened last year.

Then, after Tatar and Nyquist had possibly the best pre-season of all Detroit’s forwards Tatar was benched in favour of Samuelsson and Nyquist was sent to Grand Rapids.

why keep flogging it and acting like nothing changed?

Because when the team had the luxury of choosing, they chose vets over kids.

Period.

As I said, I think that might actually have changed now, but that is supposed what happened a year ago, so…

Fuchin’ loafer through and through.

What about when he plays centre.  Or when he’s riled up.

Do you think nobody was inspired in the past when they saw the way that Franzen was capable of singlehandedly taking over a game?

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:45 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Why is everyone who cries mortgaging the future forgets that Weber is 28 years old, not 38.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 12:30 PM ET

Trading away future roster players for an impact player right now so Pavel & Hank get another real shot. Weber would definitely be around though for quite a while with a contract like that!

Weber turns 29 in a few months, so what TreKonor said is on point in that five years from now you’ll have a 34-year-old defenseman who is probably starting to wear down from his style of play while Nashville would most likely have a 27-year-old stud in Marchenko who is in his prime and 7 years younger than Weber.

Hence, “mortgaging” your future. But, no, trading for Weber isn’t like giving up the same future players for someone like a Zdeno Chara or whoever the else is in their early to mid 30’s right now.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:45 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Fuchin’ loafer through and through.

What about when he plays centre.  Or when he’s riled up.

Do you think nobody was inspired in the past when they saw the way that Franzen was capable of singlehandedly taking over a game?

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:45 PM ET

Yeah, a lot of us were inspired back around 2007-2010. Unfortunately it’s 2014 and the kids he’s supposed to inspire were 18 the last time he took over a series.

And this is coming from a big Franzen fan.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:48 PM ET

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ence, “mortgaging” your future. But, no, trading for Weber isn’t like giving up the same future players for someone like a Zdeno Chara or whoever the else is in their early to mid 30’s right now.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:45 PM ET

Chara is 37 and is still one of the best D-men in the world.
So getting a chance to trade a couple pieces for a defenseman who is in top 5 of all defensemen in the world and who is also only 28 makes perfect sense. And is not mortgaging the future, especially when Wings have a pretty good number of prospects.
You can’t guarantee Marchenko is going to be on the same level as Weber.
And guys like Tatar are relatively common, guys like Weber are not.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 12:51 PM ET

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Weber turns 29 in a few months, so what TreKonor said is on point in that five years from now you’ll have a 34-year-old defenseman who is probably starting to wear down from his style of play while Nashville would most likely have a 27-year-old stud in Marchenko who is in his prime and 7 years younger than Weber.

Or Nashville could have a bust and Detroit could have a five-time Norris winner.

And are you living in the present?  More and more players are playing for longer and longer.  Lidstrom played, and was still in the top echelon of players, when he was 41.  Detroit’s leading scorer this year was 41.  Why is Weber “probably” going to be broken down at 34?

It’s clever, btw, that you keep upping what Detroit would be giving up.  Next thing you’re going to claim that Detroit would have to give up Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist and their first rounders for the next 17 years for Weber.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:52 PM ET

SK77's avatar

It’s clever, btw, that you keep upping what Detroit would be giving up.  Next thing you’re going to claim that Detroit would have to give up Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist and their first rounders for the next 17 years for Weber.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 12:52 PM ET

Hey, Garth, instead of putting words into my mouth why don’t you refer to my own original posts where I said this, “Nyquist, Tatar, Marchenko, a 1st and a 2nd”, which is what you’ve been responding to this whole time.

I like your commentary on here, but I don’t need the extracurricular shit. Thanks.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:56 PM ET

SK77's avatar

You can’t guarantee Marchenko is going to be on the same level as Weber.
And guys like Tatar are relatively common, guys like Weber are not.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 12:51 PM ET

Totally agree. “Mortgaging” in my book means trading away futures or the now though. Maybe it’s coming across more dramatic, but I’m just saying the Wings would be trading away future potential for the now. I’d spend more time typing this stuff out if I didn’t have a bunch of other things going on right now.

But yeah, Weber? Shit man, I’d give a whole hell of a lot away for him.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 12:58 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Lidstrom played, and was still in the top echelon of players, when he was 41.

Lidstrom was a God among men though - 1st or 2nd best Dman in history. 

No one is talking about Weber breaking down at 34, but he just won’t be the same player he is throughout his whole career.  I don’t think it’s likely Weber can keep up his game for too much longer.  He has played 25:19 - 26:54 TOI per game the last four years.  No one’s body will let them continue performing with a workload like that.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/30/14 at 01:01 PM ET

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He has played 25:19 - 26:54 TOI per game the last four years.  No one’s body will let them continue performing with a workload like that.

Posted by TreKronor on 04/30/14 at 01:01 PM ET

Yes in Nashville. You have to think that in Detroit he would not play anywhere near that, hence possibly prolonging his career.

Posted by George0211 on 04/30/14 at 01:02 PM ET

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And this is coming from a big Franzen fan.

Sure, I always do my best trash guys I’m a fan of too.

Hey, Garth, instead of putting words into my mouth

Hey SK77, thanks for understanding hyperbole.

which is what you’ve been responding to this whole time.

Actually, the entire conversation is in response to Mickey Redmond’s comments that Pasha brought up at the very beginning of this thread.

“Mickey believes the red wings will go VERY hard for Weber if this is the case and he expects we would need to trade something like this, Franzen, Tartar, Sproul and a 1st or 2nd pick…”

Remember?

“Mortgaging” in my book means trading away futures or the now though.

Weber has twelve years left on his contract.  In what possible way can you consider that “the now”?

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 01:03 PM ET

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He has played 25:19 - 26:54 TOI per game the last four years.  No one’s body will let them continue performing with a workload like that.

Zdeno Chara is 37 and he’s been averaging 25+ minutes a night in the regular season for the past five years and 27-29 minutes a night in the playoffs for that time.  This year, at 37, is the first year he hasn’t averaged at least 27 minutes a night in the playoffs, and that is most likely because he didn’t need to be playing that much against Detroit.  We’ll see what his average icetime is at the end of the playoffs.

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 01:08 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Posted by Garth on 04/30/14 at 01:03 PM ET

I can see you’re in one of your moods, so Eff it. I’m done here.

Posted by SK77 on 04/30/14 at 01:11 PM ET

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