Kukla's Korner

Kukla's Korner Hockey

P.K. Subban On The Protest

i just tweeted this and as expected, it is getting a lot of attention.



What P.K. said, via Greg Wyshynski of Yahoo,

Subban performed at a fundraiser on Tuesday night at Zanies Comedy Club in Nashville, to benefit Comedy Cares. He told the audience that he would “never” take a knee during the national anthem, because he has too much respect for the American flag. His comments were sent to us by two eyewitnesses, and confirmed by the Predators. Subban, who is Canadian, is considered the most prominent black player in pro hockey.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Nashville Predators, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: p.k.+subban


HaHasek's avatar

Much respect for his decision. I wonder if he’d be visiting the white house, had the Preds won.

Posted by HaHasek on 09/27/17 at 01:19 PM ET


I think Subban is right - the anthem is not the right time; the flag is not the right target.

Too many good people are understandably alienated and offended and
the substance of the message and its focus - to the extent it’s been clear -
is getting lost. Some people protesting have also explicitly criticized our flag
and anthem, which is not helping the other protesters who never intended that and
were trying to make a more specific point.

The flag belongs to all of us. I always thought the best answer to someone waving
the Confederate flag was *our flag*.

Our country has flaws and awful aspects to its history, but we’ve made progress,
together, when we’ve drawn upon respect for our shared values and positive, unifying
traditions to push for needed change.

PK is a bright guy. If he knows his stuff and has something to say about the need
for criminal justice reform, etc. that he’d like to express, IMO he’s earned a respectful
hearing because he’s made it abundantly clear what he’s not protesting. A lot of
athletes, whatever their politics, could learn from him.

Posted by Lefty30 on 09/27/17 at 01:27 PM ET


I think Subban is right - the anthem is not the right time; the flag is not the right target.

Well, the flag isn’t the target.

Some people protesting have also explicitly criticized our flag and anthem

They have? Who? I haven’t heard about this.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 09/27/17 at 01:30 PM ET

Paul's avatar

May as well add this here…

from TSN,

Pittsburgh Penguins head coach Mike Sullivan came to the defence of his team and captain Sidney Crosby on Wednesday amid criticism of the Stanley Cup champions’ decision to visit U.S. President Donald Trump at the White House.

“We haven’t taken any stance,” he told reporters prior to the Penguins pre-season game against Buffalo on Wednesday. “The Penguins as an organization and our players have chosen not to use this platform to take a stance. There appears to be a perception that we have. It’s wrong.”

Crosby backed the franchise’s decision to attend, which has prompted critical comments from the hockey and political world.

“People feel that Sid needs to bear this burden of responsibility is unfair,” Sullivan continued. “This guy does nothing but come to the rink, help the Penguins win championships and be a good person every day…that’s how we see it. Having said that, we have respect for those that choose to express themselves differently. I wish we would receive the same respect in return. I wish our captain would as well.”


Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/27/17 at 01:31 PM ET

HaHasek's avatar

At the core of the issue is people wanting the right to be judged by their actions, not by their skin color.

The Penguins made a decision and deserve to the right be judged on it. The fact they they made a decision doesn’t clear them of the decision that they made.

Posted by HaHasek on 09/27/17 at 01:36 PM ET




Freep editorial page editor said so on Meet the Press this past Sunday, for one
(scroll way down to the exchange between Rich Lowry and Henderson).

You’re partly right that the flag is not the target and partly wrong.
Seems like it is for some and isn’t for others, but the latter is getting lost in
a) the time and place chosen to protest - precisely when people are standing in respect to honor what the flag stands for and b) among people who seem to have comprehensively negative, hostile interpretations of all our history, traditions, symbols.

Don Lemon said something very stupid the other day about how anyone who
thinks players are protesting the flag or anthem must think the great (my emphasis) Rosa Parks
was protesting the bus. Ummm…she was protesting racial segregation including on
buses. Her protest was directly focused on and instrumental to highlighting the
bigotry and injustice behind segregation. If Rosa Parks had chosen to protest the evils of
segregation by refusing to stand for the national anthem, I’m guessing her message might have
gotten lost!

Posted by Lefty30 on 09/27/17 at 01:56 PM ET


Sorry, that’s Stephen Henderson.

I thought I’d typed his full name prior.


I think that’s generally correct, and what a fundamentally just, compelling
idea it is!

Which is why is so sadly gratuitous to blur and confuse that message
by going out of one’s way on national TV to say: oh, yes, the national
anthem is racist.

How does that help? Whom is that convincing?

Posted by Lefty30 on 09/27/17 at 02:02 PM ET

Paul's avatar

“That’s the great thing about our country,” Trotz said. “We get to speak our piece, if you will, without sometimes ramifications. In other countries, there’s dire consequences if you speak up. That’s the gift of living in the United States and people can express it, and I’ll support anybody for that. But I do think that, me personally, we’re honoring the flag. We’re maybe not honoring some of the things that are going on in our country.”

more at the Washington Post.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/27/17 at 02:13 PM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

Which is why is so sadly gratuitous to blur and confuse that message
by going out of one’s way on national TV to say: oh, yes, the national
anthem is racist.

How does that help? Whom is that convincing?

This is not about the anthem or the flag.  There is a counter narrative to obscure that fact because if you can make it about the flag in peoples perceptions, then you can paint the protestors as anti soldier, anti country, anti American.  You will remember that having players on the field for the anthem is a tradition going all the way back to 9/11, 2009, I think.  It was arranged as a deliberately political, pro-military move by the NFL after the military gave them a ton of money.  The air force fly-overs or the paratroopers dropping onto a field are all paid for by the military as promotion (for recruiting).  Choosing to stage the demonstration during the anthem was not long thought out: Kaepernick did it on the spur of the moment, probably because it offered the right moment of reflection and exposure.  If he did it during or after the game, it probably wouldn’t get noticed.


Posted by duhduhduh on 09/27/17 at 02:16 PM ET

HaHasek's avatar

“How does that help? Whom is that convincing?”

Keep digging into the issue. Keep being honest with yourself. You’ll find the answers eventually.

Posted by HaHasek on 09/27/17 at 02:34 PM ET


“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” Kaepernick told NFL Media

Of course the guy who kicked off these protests directly said he’s not going to stand to “show pride
in a flag for a country…”

I can appreciate a rebel, free-thinker, dissenter, but that quote combined with his chosen time and
place of protest has set a lot of good people with a genuine, compelling point down the wrong path.

Dumb dumb dumb to focus on the flag and seem to distance oneself from the whole country with a sweeping claim of culpability for something as vague as oppression. It also doesn’t help that he seems to be implying
that one race is oppressing all of the others.

There are legitimate grievances for sure and we need to address them together.
And I like Trotz’s distinction.

But the way many protestors have chosen to play this created an opening for Trump to demonize
the players who are kneeling in protest, so now of course it’s also become a protest of him
and one more source of division in a country that sure doesn’t need it.


Posted by Lefty30 on 09/27/17 at 02:35 PM ET



You may be right on that recent history.

But when in politics and especially protests did good intentions
or “what I really meant” matter most?

There’s a truism in politics: if you have to explain, you’re already losing.

Ronald Reagan’s media guru Mike Deaver understood a cynical but
telling truth: it’s not the details of your programs or even what you say
on TV that gets across to people - it’s the images they see that get implanted.
You might be right about why Kaepernick chose the time and place he did.
He’s not a good messenger in general, because the more he talks the less you
realize he knows. But let’s assume his heart is totally in the right place and he’s
just trying to get across a message that is compelling to him and many others.

The visuals are not good. Viewers do think it’s about it’s about the anthem and flag
and get upset and the message gets lost in more division. It’s a big, fat softball across
the plate for Trump to swing at.

My point is the counter-narrative practically writes itself. If the counter-narrative is much
clearer and easier to see and grasp for many than the original message, then what you’ve
done is at least less effective than it could have been and, at worst, counterproductive.

Then it creates room for critics of the protestors to cherry pick examples of
other times when patriotic messages that individual teams or players wished to express were forbidden
by the league.

As someone who’s understood the crying need for criminal justice reform literally since I was a
teenager, I want to see protests that are a) unifying, not alienating and b) effective!

Posted by Lefty30 on 09/27/17 at 02:50 PM ET


Totally respect and agree with P.K. Subban. As a Canadian with a green card living in the USA it would be disrespectful to not stand and take your hat off for the the country you have come to live and work in. It doesn’t matter who the president is whether Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump, I always respect the country, anthem and flag.

Posted by Puckbubba on 09/27/17 at 03:07 PM ET

Paul's avatar

from Adam Vingan of The Tennessean,

The NHL is predominantly white, with only a handful of black players. Subban, a native of Toronto, is the most prominent. That designation and his reputation for being outspoken might place an expectation on him to address certain social issues.

“I realize that being a black hockey player, people are going to recognize that. That’s fine,” Subban said. “But I want to be recognized as one of the best players in the league and the best player in the league. And that’s what I work for every day.

“At the end of the day, whether you’re born purple, black, white or brown, you don’t control that. All you can control is what you do. That’s how you’re judged in this world, by what you do and your work ethic and your character. That’s how I’ve been judged. … I’d like to hope that people aren’t being judged by the color of their skin and their ethnic background.”


Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/27/17 at 05:50 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Ceaig Anderson says he would go to The White House.

The New Jersey Devils will not protest the National Anthem.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/27/17 at 05:57 PM ET

Add a Comment

Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.

Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.

Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.


Notify me of follow-up comments?


Most Recent Blog Posts

About Kukla's Korner Hockey

Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

From breaking news to in-depth stories around the league, KK Hockey is updated with fresh stories all day long and will bring you the latest news as quickly as possible.

Email Paul anytime at pk@kuklaskorner.com


haberistanbul evden eve nakliyat affenspiele.net mimispiele.comgebze evden eve nakliyat solitaire oyna
paper.io paper.io unblocked paperio sozyaz.com turkce.yurtdisi-fx.com agario.surf agario paper.io