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Moving MSG

from the Buffalo Chronicle,

Governor Kathy Hochul is preparing to relocate Madison Square Garden to a permanent new home on the site of Dewitt Clinton Park, a 5.8 acre city park in a trendy section of Manhattan, overlooking the Hudson River between 52nd and 54th Streets.  The relocation of the nearly 20,000-seat multi-use arena event center is intended to accelerate Hochul’s sweeping improvement plan for Penn Station, which sits under the 60s-era venue that critics have always lamented as congested and misplaced.

The Governor believes that the new arena’s construction could be completed in as little as three years, and she wants to hire a ‘star architect’ with deep ties to New York to begin designing the facility as soon as possible.  Hochul envisions that the arena will ‘sit on-top’ of glassy television studios at street level, which she hopes that businessman James Dolan will populate with nationally-broadcasted sports and entertainment programming on MSG’s television network.


Thanks to a KK member for the pointer.

Filed in: NHL Teams, New York Rangers, | KK Hockey | Permalink



Why is the Governor renovating the city?
And I’m always uncomfortable with the words ” eminent domain”.....

Posted by pnwwing on 01/13/22 at 11:00 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

The Governor believes that the new arena’s construction could be completed in as little as three years, and she wants to hire a ‘star architect’ with deep ties to New York to begin designing the facility as soon as possible

Just goes to show how out of touch politicians are with reality.  That timeline is impossible.

Posted by TreKronor on 01/13/22 at 11:37 AM ET

jhpcarrier97's avatar

Its New York people, my way back roots are Manhattan and Brooklyn and I kinda have an idea, like “Its all about me”

Posted by jhpcarrier97 on 01/13/22 at 02:13 PM ET

d ca's avatar

Posted by pnwwing on 01/13/22 at 10:00 AM ET

This isn’t a land grab for a public stadium: it’s about expanding a public place (penn station) to fit a modern commuter. The only way to do that is to move MSG.

And it would actually be a land swap deal (unless you are talking about the post office that will need to be torn down) MSG for Dewitt Clinton Park. It would also alleviate game day traffic going into a terminal/transfer hub for the subway. The station was designed for 200k people per day and 650k people use it a day currently. It was originally built in 1910 and had a major refurbishment in the 1960’s…

The penn station plan is to tear down a post office across the street and redevelop it into Amtrak’s transit hub which would connect via hallway to the subway system. Government funds 325M vs 3B cost.

As far as a new MSG in 3 years….possible (the construction site could be supplied by barge traffic) and there is another public park on the water where a section that could be closed and used as storage.

But they better plan for something at street level to alleviate the flooding that will likely occur there 25 years from now.

Posted by d ca on 01/13/22 at 05:33 PM ET


I’m no planner or expert re: construction, but
these projects always run over time and budget.
It’s just hard to imagine with both the labor market
constrained in some ways - shortage of skilled trades workers
- and supplies and materials expensive and in short supply
that this would get done quickly, even by the standards of five years ago.

Hudson Yards was a minute ago so maybe Manhattan needs a glitzy, shiny
new edifice. I know commuter congestion and transportation logistics have been
a major long-term need. Don’t get started about the subways and MTA…
But as for commuter trains and improving the look and feel and flow of trafffic and people in and out of Penn Station, there’s long been talk something had to give.
Really Penn Station was like a worn, dated, cramped basement rec room.
It was a common butt of jokes and one of those old, shabby, heavily used and somehow still mostly functional parts of NYC people love to hate but still sorta love because it’s familiar. But I never had to commute to/from there every day.
My thought was, hey, at least it’s not Port Authority (bus transit at 42nd). That place is extra gritty.

I played in a summer league in DeWitt Clinton Park and
remember walking to a first date on one of the residential blocks in the lower
50s before you hit the park. It’s tough to lose an accessible public park with ball fields. MSG to me was never about the glitzy look of a destination building.
It was all about a premier arena with incredible history being smack in the middle of a world city.

Whether Hell’s Kitchen is trendy is kind of a tough call these days.
After around 25 years of gradual gentrification pretty much all of Manhattan
became very approachable for people not wanting too much adventure or character.
But it’s gotten kind of rough again the past couple of years. Maybe the city and state also want to expand and extend patron and tourist foot traffic northwest and sort of connect Hudson Yards this project and Lincoln Center area.

Posted by lefty.30 on 01/13/22 at 06:29 PM ET

Kaszycki and his Krew's avatar

Being a New Yorker - and an Isles fan - this is interesting news - given our struggles over the years in ownership and replacing the Coli (winding up with an ESPN 30 in 30 special!) and seeing the Gov hand them a building, it’s interesting.  There are certainly politics involved.  but let’s focus on a few other things:

MSG has had the benefit of not paying property taxes!  One of the contingents was their never being allowed to play a “home” game in the city at a different venue.  As you may recall - the Rag$ played in the 2018 Winter Classic at Citi Field in Queens vs. Buffalo.  But Buffalo was the home team.  If the Rag$ were the home team it would cost them a fortune.  If you look at the Wiki entry for the 2018 Winter Classic it is explained within that.

As lefty points out - the area of Hells Kitchen is not traditionally been a good neighborhood (Joey Mullen and his brother Brian are from that neighborhood) but I would venture that the area around Penn Station ( W 33rd between 7th and 8th) is bad now.

Originally - the MSG was supposed to move across the street to where the HUGE post office was. 

The transport to Penn Station has within the building and one block - several subway lines, the PATH train to NJ , NJ Transit and the Long Island RailRoad.  The Hells Kitchen location is not near mass transit.


Posted by Kaszycki and his Krew on 01/13/22 at 08:15 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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