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The Malik Report

Youth Keeping The Wings In The Race

from Scott Cullen of TSN,

There is an argument to be made that the ever-patient Red Wings might have opened doors sooner for their young players, rather than trot out the likes of Dan Cleary, Jordin Tootoo and Mikael Samuelsson right out of the gate.

Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist and Jurco all played for Calder Cup-champion Grand Rapids in the AHL last season, and all four have made a successful adjustment to the NHL game. It's early in their careers, of course, but they are part of the reason the Red Wings are still within striking distance of a playoff berth, a position that was pretty much unthinkable for a team that hasn't missed the postseason since 1990 and was supposed to have an easier time with their move to the Eastern Conference.

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perfection's avatar

forgive the long comment here… just a personal story to tie into my thoughts about this post. I’m not offended if you skip it

I know people will want to make that argument, that the whole “put in the kids” cry is somehow now being justified, when in fact the performance of Sheahan and Jurco in particular are simply further proof that guys mature and develop at different rates and that Kenny’s patience is once again paying off. Making these kids earn their spots against consummate pros like Sammy, Bert, Cleary, etc. means they arrive CONFIDENT. Sheahan to me is the perfect example. He was a first rounder, a bigger than average forward with great skills and great defensive awareness. The temptation of a lesser organization may have been to see what he could do in the NHL if not the first year, then the second. Sink or swim kid. But he spent two more full years in college, followed by an AHL playoff run and then another full year in Grand Rapids where he won the cup, followed by starting this year on the Griffs. Out of waivers for next season, I think the plan all along was to start calling him up this year and let him earn his slot for next year. And sure enough, he’s earned it.

Living in Chicago, only 90 min from Notre Dames campus, the year after the Wings drafted Sheahan I bought season tix to their games (around $250 for two for the who season) just so I could go watch him and I got way into it and went to nearly all the games. I even kind of befriended Sheahan’s mom (who I actually most recently ran into at Comerica park during the AHL winter classic game). He was a real good college player for sure, but he looked like a kid out there. He was nothing like the man we’ve seen playing the last few games. I mean NOTHING.  After starting his pro career with the little Halloween drinking incident (and don’t forget, he had a previous one in college), I think he finally put his head down and realized he was using up his chances. He could either be a “problem” player or a Red Wing. His two previous call ups didn’t help him much as he looked like a deer in the headlights. I was at his first game at the Joe and he took a penalty the first second he came out and then played about 5 forgettable min the whole game. I watched Grand Rapids all year last year and from the beginning of the season to the end Sheahan improved consistently. He played PP’s, he killed penalties, he took defensive faceoffs at the end of games with one goal leads and he faced the pressure of game 7’s, obviously coming out victorious.

After the experience built from the championship run, the two years of training like a pro, and simply growing up, Sheahan suddenly looks every bit the big bruising first round forward we were looking for. And compared to the 18 year old kid we drafted, he’s bigger, faster, way better on the faceoff, better defensively, nearly ALWAYS in the right spot, his shot’s way better, he’s waaaay stronger down low - literally EVERY part of his game is lightyears beyond where they were when I watched him at Notre Dame and even in the AHL last year. And this is just physical attributes and doesn’t even take his rising confidence level into account. 

Of course there’s no way to tell what NHL competition would have done to his development early on, but it seems like only a very select few 18 and 19 year olds are talented and most importantly, MATURE enough to play in the NHL, especially for a squad like the Wings. Yeah, it’s frustrating to know we have guys simmering in the minors for years, sometimes even boiling and it’s only natural that any time we face some adversity to want to see what they can do. But it’s guys like Bert, Tootoo, Emmerton, Eaves, Sammy, etc. who are showing these kids what it means to be a pro and then are stepping aside quietly. After all, we’ve had a lot of roster flux this year and while the teams’ had ups and downs on the ice, I’ve not heard a peep about any locker room discord whatsoever. Every vet who’s been waived has gone down gracefully and set an example for those below. And while we of course are still badly in need of a Norris contender on the back end (and might not be a legitimate cup threat until we find one… or develop one), I think these last few games have shown that despite our apparent “struggles”, the big red machine is most definitely still working.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 01/27/14 at 08:11 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 01/27/14 at 07:11 PM ET

Dig and agree with your thoughts on this one. Definitely can look at some other franchises that roll out their prospects too quick and they either disappear from the NHL forever or become reclamation projects with another franchise. Definitely not something the Wings could afford to do in the past especially with their limited draft picks.

Posted by SK77 on 01/27/14 at 08:26 PM ET

shanetx's avatar

Each prospect is different and I don’t disagree in the slightest about Sheahan.  Tatar is another one.

One of the main things that makes him able to play the way he has lately is his strength.  If he just had the quickness, puckhandling and scoring instincts he wouldn’t be able to win battles or hold up against physical play as well as he does. Either side of his development without the other would result in an inferior player that likely wouldn’t be having an impact.

Posted by shanetx from Floydada, Texas on 01/27/14 at 10:52 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

I’m glad that the Wings kept Tatar in Grand Rapids as long as they did. He wasn’t ready for full-time NHL duty last year strength-wise given his size. This year he’s shown us why the Wings aggravated him—because they wanted him to become a difference-maker. Part of that difference-making means going into the corner at 5’9” and 185 pounds and coming out of a battle with two 6’3,” 210-pound defensemen with the puck.

Sheahan’s strength has increased considerably, as has his defensive ability, and as we can all see, Jurco is something of a work in progress in all three zones and in terms of his conditioning. Hell, Nyquist is still developing into a more complete player.

Babcock has liked to say that the reason that players are kept in Grand Rapids for so long is because the NHL is not a developmental league. Prospect development is a tricky business—you have to hope that a player’s skills, skating, physical development and mental development all converge at the same time and that they converge without conflicting with each other.

In that sense, I’m more than certain that Calle Jarnkrok and Teemu Pulkkinen are more than mentally mature enough to play with the Wings right now as they’ve been playing pro hockey since they were 18, but physically and in terms of their ability to defensively compete on a North American-sized rink, they’re not ready, so they’re in Grand Rapids.

The physical part is keeping Adam Almquist out of the mix, and as smooth as Xavier Ouellet is, he needs AHL experience right now so that he can make mistakes that don’t cost the NHL team points.

I get the feeling that similar issues are why Landon Ferraro’s still in the AHL despite being no longer waiver-exempt next season, and while you, me and everyone want to see the best and brightest prospects play right away, I trust not only Ken Holland and Mike Babcock here, but also Ryan Martin, Kris Draper, Jiri Fischer, Chris Chelios, Jeff Blashill, Jim Paek and Spiros Anastas in their decision-making.

We all know that they don’t always make the right call collectively, but they get it right more often than not, and the Griffins’ record over the last two years suggests that the kids are learning how to succeed at the AHL level while knowing that they’ve got to do more to “stick” in the NHL.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 01/27/14 at 11:13 PM ET

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There is an argument to be made that the ever-patient Red Wings might have opened doors sooner for their young players, rather than trot out the likes of Dan Cleary, Jordin Tootoo and Mikael Samuelsson right out of the gate.

There is an argument to be made for that.  A stupid argument, but certainly an argument.

The inherent problem with said argument is that it assumes perfect hindsight.  Yeah, sure, if you have a crystal ball which shows you Sheahan and Tatar would eventually be competent in the 2013-14 season if you’re willing to throw them out there for a fifth to a half of an NHL season until they get there… well, that would be wonderful.

That same crystal ball could have told you that in spite of a profoundy un-skirt-blowing-uppy AHL career Howard would come up and stuff Chris Osgood’s career in the trunk of a Buick.  All sorts of helpful uses for that sort of info.

Unfortunately, in order to get the information now rather than in a year or two Detroit had to wade through Almqvist, Ouelette, Glendening, Jurco and the first 60-some combined games of the guys who ended up to, so far, be okay.

Further, I think Cullen grossly over-represents the degree to which ” trot out the likes of Dan Cleary, Jordin Tootoo and Mikael Samuelsson right out of the gate” was happening.  Sammy played sporadically at best and almost universally as a 12th forward.  Tootoo played a fraction of that.  The only guy regularly played was Cleary, who held it together fairly well defensively until about two or three weeks ago when his play fell of the table, and who even then was only playing 13ish minutes a night, essentially what Miller plays.

I just get annoyed sometimes at NHL writers who pick nits with how Detroit handles youth.  Shouldn’t the Wings actually make some legitimate mistakes before they start getting whacked with the idiot stick?  I can’t think of more than 2 prospects who did anything noteworthy outside of Detroit when Detroit decided they weren’t good enough, and one of them is reviled enough lately to make that a poor example (Quincey.)

Heck, the biggest draft day immolation people wanted to submit Holland to lately was McCollum over Markstrom, and by God 6 years later it’s starting to look like Holland drafted the better guy.  If even that kind of pick can end up turning around to make Holland look pretty decent, I just don’t know where there’s a whole lot of traction to start getting to uppity about how he handles… much of anything, really.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 01/27/14 at 11:39 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Blashill deserves a lions share of credit.  All the guy does is win.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 01/27/14 at 11:42 PM ET

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Well said George. Even though I’ve been particularly annoyed by the way Holland and Babcock have dealt with our personnel over the last year and a half, you make good points about prospects developing at their own pace, etc.

The one disagreement i have though is how Holland seems to be second guessing his own judgment. How do you ask? By giving veterans like Bertuzzi Sammy and Cleary contracts all the while KNOWING that a guy like Tatar is out of options or how Nyquist is NHL ready yet they knew he would be 24 and starting in the AHL. I could go on about these roster mishaps, but it just seems like KH has this hard-n-fast rule that EVERY prospect must wait until their respective options run out, and that’s wrong.

Yeah, for Tatar it worked great, but what about Jurco? He’s different, as is Sheahan and Ouellet, and as was Kindl and Abby. KH needs to do a better job of trusting himself with his draft picks rather than erring on the side of veterans.

Now I know that the latter sentiment has yet to fail KH, but the NHL is changing and we haven’t been a contender since 2009 (and if you think otherwise, you’re delusional). The NHL is faster and younger nowadays, and I can only hope our brass can FINALLY embrace that concept this off-season.

Posted by ZandPasha11 on 01/27/14 at 11:51 PM ET

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I get so tired of fans making excuses for the recent Red Wings’ ineptitude.
George’s idea that Tatar needed to play last year in Grand Rapids is off the charts lunacy. Tatar showed the world, at the World Championships, that he was ready for elite-level hockey.
And this isn’t about wanting icetime for Tommy T. This is about wanting to put out the best lineup possible for the Red Wings.

Wings vs Chicago last year.

We rolled with
Abdelkader Datsyuk Franzen —- 2 goals
Filppula Zetterberg Cleary—4 goals
Nyquist Andersson Brunner—4 goals
Miller Emmerton Eaves - 2 goals

Plus 1 PP goal
1 EN goal
Extra Attacker goal 1

The Red Wings didn’t even give themselves the option of calling up Tatar. Considering Tatar was the 2nd most productive forward in the lineup (ES points/60Min), how stupid does that look?

Abdelkader recorded ZERO points vs Chicago. Datsyuk 1 goal, 1 assist. Franzen 1 goal, 2 assists.

Let’s work some lineup magic. Insert Tatar into the lineup for Emmerton. Switch Tatar and Abdelkader, so that Tatar plays with Datsyuk and Franzen and Abdelkader centers the 4th line.

What that does is give our first line some pop, instead of turnover after turnover after turnover. And it gives our 4th line some muscle

Might that have been enough to beat Chicago? Who knows?

Tatar is scoring at a 23 goal pace right playing limited minutes, mostly with guys who don’t have much skill.

Even if the Wings didn’t want to call up Tatar, it would have made more sense to switch Abby for Patrick Eaves.

Posted by Captain Bob on 01/28/14 at 02:36 AM ET

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Hindsight? Most Red Wings fans who weren’t drinking the KoolAid knew that Sammy and Cleary and Colaiacovo were stupid signings. Even the Bertuzzi re-signing, which I mildly supported, was poorly timed. Holland signs him in the midst of a point-per-game streak. Soon after, he goes death cold for the rest of the season.
The over-reliance on veterans made sense when your veterans were Igor Larionov, Brett Hull, Steve Yzerman, Christ Chelios, Brendan Shanahan, Luc Robitaille, etc.

But spending $3M on Samuelsson was stupid, through and through. Especially in an offseason when we signed Brunner and Tootoo, and when we should have been giving both Tatar and Nyquist a full season in Detroit.

This “overripening” nonsense hasn’t done us any good in Detroit. It’s created a prospect backlog that, even with all these kids up in Detroit, we’re still having trouble finding icetime for our prospects.   

Management requires decisions. Not all of them are easy. Sometimes, you gotta walk away from players. They should have walked away from Holmstrom and Bertuzzi two years before they did. They should never have signed Modano or Salei or Samuelsson.

We had kids we needed to be developing. And had we been actively working the Kindls and Smiths and Nyquists and Tatars into the lineup a little earlier, our situation today would look better.

Posted by Captain Bob on 01/28/14 at 02:45 AM ET

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Tatar showed the world, at the World Championships, that he was ready for elite-level hockey.

Offensively, sure.  Defensively, not even close… and to be honest he’s still not playing very good two-way hockey, it’s just that Detroit so desperately needs his offense right now his mediocre to blow mediocre defensive positioning and play just aren’t that important.

The Red Wings didn’t even give themselves the option of calling up Tatar. Considering Tatar was the 2nd most productive forward in the lineup (ES points/60Min), how stupid does that look?

If the only concern to start the season was offense, really stupid.  Was that the only concern to start the season?

Hindsight? Most Red Wings fans who weren’t drinking the KoolAid knew that Sammy and Cleary and Colaiacovo were stupid signings.

In Sammy’s case sure, since a huge contingent of these fans wouldn’t have supported signing him at any price, ever.  At that point it’s just about making decisions based on dislike for a player rather than being rational…  and not for nothing, but Colaiacovo would be playing in the top 6 of this roster.  He got beat out by a Kindl and Smith last year who aren’t remotely the same Kindl and Smith this year… and he’s always been a better player than Lashoff.

People who thought getting Cleary for one year and 1.75 was a bad deal… man, that’s just fans being silly.

This “overripening” nonsense hasn’t done us any good in Detroit. It’s created a prospect backlog that, even with all these kids up in Detroit, we’re still having trouble finding icetime for our prospects.

Right, but that’s because you’ve always believed that prospects by definition of being prospects ought to get a shot at the NHL just to see if they’re NHL players.  Neither Detroit nor I share that opinion, and watching the roster positively suck for a month or more while a parade of most definitely not ready players cycle through it ought to have been enough to inform you of your error.

There’s not a backlog of good prospects.  There’s a backlog of lottery tickets.  Cashing lottery tickets is not the way to get rich.

We had kids we needed to be developing.

Right, but again… you believe that developing needs to happen at the NHL level.  I believe and Detroit believes that the near totality of developing needs to happen prior to the NHL level.  For every Sheahan that surprises there are 2-4 Jurco’s, Glendenings or Almquist’s who don’t, and if you use the NHL season to find that stuff out you’re being wasteful.

And had we been actively working the Kindls and Smiths and Nyquists and Tatars into the lineup a little earlier, our situation today would look better.

Yes, hindsight.  If, as you suggest, the Wings had worked in the four players who ended up being the best prospects of the bunch sooner things might have worked out better… assuming, of course, that all you’re looking at is how those specific players would have been improved and not the downside of having the 8 other guys who didn’t pan out dragging the roster down as a counterweight… or how had any of those players gotten hurt there would have been so little organizational depth left that instead of calling up Nyquist’s and Tatar’s to fill in for NHL player injuries we’re talking about calling up Ferraro’s and Ouelett’s instead.

There are many more moving parts at play here than the ones you are considering.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 01/28/14 at 07:12 AM ET

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People who thought getting Cleary for one year and 1.75 was a bad deal… man, that’s just fans being silly.

Hey look everyone, it’s another patented HiHD straw man!

Signing Cleary for any amount of money was a bad deal because the Wings were already over the salary cap AND the roster limit.

Posted by Garth on 01/28/14 at 08:36 AM ET

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The whole “over-ripe” thing has always worked for the Red Wings. But they also always had a luxury of doing it because of the good skilled veterans they had who were contributing. This is the same template they tried to apply in the last off-season in preparation for this season. But as it turned out, the speed of the game increased greatly even from last season, and guys like Bert, Cleary simply can’t keep up any more.
Argument, by throwing out numbers in your post about how Tatar was such a productive player doesn’t necessarily make sense, because who did he play against? Babcock himself said that to be successful you need 3rd and 4th lines, because top 2 lines will probably cancel each other out. So that doesn’t mean that Tatar is suddenly better than some other players on the team.
Coliacovo and Sammy signings were panic signings to a certain extent after Holland lost out on Sutter sweepstakes. But those signings also made sense. Coliacovo was coming in as a 5-6th D-man, nothing fancy. Sammy is a sniper, like him or not, he is a sniper. Nothing more nothing less, swedish version of Kozlov and probably less talented too. But it made sense back then because he was a known commodity to the Wings and knows how to play with Z. His injuries last season basically made him useless last year and also this year.
Cleary signing was bad regardless of the term and amount. It was bad because he immediately took a roster spot away from Nyquist and playing time from Tatar.
I think now Holland and Babcock are realizing that some of these guys simply can’t skate in this league anymore.

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 09:10 AM ET

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Sammy is a sniper, like him or not, he is a sniper.

You might not be familiar with how important aim is, to be considered a sniper.

Posted by Garth on 01/28/14 at 10:02 AM ET

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You might not be familiar with how important aim is, to be considered a sniper.

Posted by Garth on 01/28/14 at 09:02 AM ET

I never said he was a good one.

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 10:03 AM ET

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it just seems like KH has this hard-n-fast rule that EVERY prospect must wait until their respective options run out, and that’s wrong.

The whole arguement was about Sheahan.  Everyone knew before the draft he would need 2-3 years at ND to develop, and another 2-3 years in the minors.  That’s what every team projected, so don’t try to say it wouldn’t have happened elsewhere.

Then you compare him with Jurco and say that he needed time too.  The Wings had no plan to even test drive Jurco this year.  Malik and others made fun of anyone who even suggested it in November.  They only brought him up b/c there was no other choice.  All players being healthy, they would have much preferred to leave him down all year.  After all, he’s a full year younger than Sheahan, so that means (to the Wings) he’s automatically behind Sheahan in the pecking order.

Why punish guys based on age when even you admit they develop at different rates?  Tatar was good enough to play all season on the Wings last year, despite what you say.  Would we still be seeing his growing pains today if he had a full year under his belt?  Maybe, but not nearly as much.  And he’s not that bad defensively now despite what you Holland apologists say. 

We all know Nyquist was good enough to be in Detroit all last season, let alone all this season.  Why do the Wings insist on punishing talent by signing the Clearys of the world?  Jurco’s got 20-30 pounds on what Nyquist and Tatar had at 20-21 years old.  Does he need another full year in the minors next season?  Of course not, but that’s where he’ll almost assuredly start the season. 

Posted by jkm2011 on 01/28/14 at 10:32 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Just 2 addins on this thread,

Kids deserve to be moved into slots they are suited for, otherwise its not good for either side.  Like Glenny takes a 4th line spot, because that’s what he is, he’s take the opportunity and done great, whereas a kid like Jurco should be a top 6 player getting good minutes with other talent vs. say a Cleary spot on the 4th line, playing PK and grinder minutes.

So in that case, can you just start a season under the assumption that a prospect just sticks and performs in your top 6?  That’s a tough call, he fails, or struggles defensively, thats a huge hole on the team in important minutes, against important competition.

Or do you wait for inevitable injury, and trickle him along, and when he had the opportunity to crack our top 2 lines this season, he showed he belongs. Next season you slot him there to start.

Secondly, the sooner these kids come up and perform they more expensive they become as RFAs, and harder to lock up into their UFA years.

With that said, Cleary and Samuleson still suck.

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick on 01/28/14 at 10:45 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Here’s a question….

Who’s spot Glenny is taking? 

I really like this kid and his edge. He’s a fast, he knows his role is to hit and be abbrasive, he’s embraced it, plays good in his minutes,and is good on the PK. Good for him and the team, he’s the perfect 4th line center, and a presense we need in the post season.

Pav, Weiss, Helm, Anderson, Glenny, and now Sheahan, that’s 1-2 centers too many, if not this season, certainly coming into next. 

Does that make Anderson trade bait?  Is Weiss already a possible buyout option in the offseason?  Can you even trust Helms back and health, not to have 1-2 in the waiting?

Posted by MurrayChadwick on 01/28/14 at 10:47 AM ET

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Pav, Weiss, Helm, Anderson, Glenny, and now Sheahan, that’s 1-2 centers too many, if not this season, certainly coming into next. 

Does that make Anderson trade bait?  Is Weiss already a possible buyout option in the offseason?  Can you even trust Helms back and health, not to have 1-2 in the waiting?

Posted by MurrayChadwick on 01/28/14 at 09:47 AM ET

Original setup was supposed to be Pav, Weiss, Helm, Anderson as the centers
Once everyone is healthy Sheahan and Glendenning will go back down.

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 10:50 AM ET

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Kids deserve to be moved into slots they are suited for, otherwise its not good for either side.

Or another way to look at it is that you want to have your prospects to earn their spots.

It doesn’t make sense to bring up a prospect and simply slot him into the top six because that’s what he’s projected to eventually be.  What’s wrong with putting him on the third line to begin with and have him get more ice time as he matures?

Pavel Datsyuk didn’t start out on the top line, playing 21 minutes a game.  He started out on the third line, 9th on the team in TOI/G among forwards, playing 13 minutes a game.  He started off playing 2 minutes a game on the PP and 10 seconds a game on the PK.  Who knows what would have happened if Scotty Bowman had insisted on not playing Datsyuk on the third line because he was projected to be a top-six player?

Since when is it a bad thing to have young guys with the potential to be top-six forwards playing on the third line?  That’s called depth.

Posted by Garth on 01/28/14 at 11:23 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Love that Glendening has turned into a draper clone that Babs puts him against the oppositions top line.  You talk about the top lines canceling out well having a glendending who can offset matchups makes every other line better or more productive.  This kids the real deal and gives a great advantage wed always taken for granted that those old wings teams had.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 01/28/14 at 11:42 AM ET

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Name me 5 prospects that were overrippened in the minors that worked out that still play on the wings. Leaving off tatar and nyquist.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 11:52 AM ET

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Name me 5 prospects that were overrippened in the minors that worked out that still play on the wings. Leaving off tatar and nyquist.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 10:52 AM ET

Ericsson, Kronwall, Smith, Kindle

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 11:54 AM ET

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Is kindl playing right now or in the press box?  How’s Smith’s play been? Kronwall spent less than 2 seasons with GR. Ericsson spent parts of 2. I kind of feel like the ‘overripe’ thing just means doesnt play immediately. Those feel like normal development periods.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 12:06 PM ET

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Is kindl playing right now or in the press box?  How’s Smith’s play been? Kronwall spent less than 2 seasons with GR. Ericsson spent parts of 2. I kind of feel like the ‘overripe’ thing just means doesnt play immediately. Those feel like normal development periods.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 11:06 AM ET

You asked to name players which are still on the wings. It wasn’t a quiestion of who is playing well.
Overripe to me means until players is out of minor league options.

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 12:08 PM ET

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Thats why I included ‘worked out’. Doing that to a player to me means he’s a project. The word project to me usually means bad.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 12:22 PM ET

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Thats why I included ‘worked out’. Doing that to a player to me means he’s a project. The word project to me usually means bad.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 11:22 AM ET

And which one of the players I mentioned did not work out? Just because a player doesn’t turn into a superstar doesn’t mean he didn’t work out.

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 12:24 PM ET

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I just feel like Wings have had quite a few players not work out and they are gunshy about bringing up youngsters. I mean we are all “shocked” they can play and “who would have known!?” but really its their job to know. Not just to guess. All teams have draft busts cause hockey is so weird its hard to know what you have but maybe not hiring ex players out of loyalty with no experience in scouting to be the judge of talent would be a start.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 12:32 PM ET

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And which one of the players I mentioned did not work out? Just because a player doesn’t turn into a superstar doesn’t mean he didn’t work out.

um I would say Kindl has not worked out. He’s been surpassed by *#$%@& Brian Lashoff on the depth chart. He’s now getting the Babcock ‘you are buried’ treatment. If the Wings aquired a top 4 D at the deadline I honestly dont know who would sit as of now Smith or Lashoff.

Posted by brians neck on 01/28/14 at 12:38 PM ET

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um I would say Kindl has not worked out. He’s been surpassed by *#$%@& Brian Lashoff on the depth chart. He’s now getting the Babcock ‘you are buried’ treatment.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t think Kindl didnt work out. He is an NHL caliber player who is in his coach’s doghouse. He is the not the first, he won’t be the last.

Posted by George0211 on 01/28/14 at 12:41 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Lash off wasn’t even on the depth chart until injuries forced the club to use him and changed their tune.  Matthias is a 50 pint player.  Fleishmann who we also traded is a 60pnt player.  Regardless both put up better numbers after being traded than File dude all but one year here.  Hell Flip didn’t decide to start playing real hockey til he left.  I don’t think in any regard that we need to use up a guys options before using them.  Smith could’ve really benefitted from a year with Stuey and Lidas.  Nyquist is going to be a better player for having played with Z.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 01/28/14 at 01:27 PM ET

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Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 01/28/14 at 10:42 AM ET

And here I was worried that there might actually be a point at which the Wings aren’t overflowing with bottom six forwards…

Posted by Garth on 01/28/14 at 01:33 PM ET

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Matthias is a 50 pint player.

In what universe?

Posted by Garth on 01/28/14 at 01:39 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Same one where Clearys worth 1.5m and keeping Nyquist in the minors and Tatar in the press box.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 01/28/14 at 01:46 PM ET

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About The Malik Report

The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.