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Your Opinion Of Detroit Against Chicago

The next round, against Chicago, may be a lot tougher. The top-seeded Blackhawks are the darlings of the 2013 season, they are rested, they are deep, they are experienced, and they are really good.

And these are still the Wings. Criticize them all you want, but count them out at your own risk.

That's from Mitch Albom of the Detroit Free Press where you can read more on last night's game but my question to you is, what kind of chance are you giving the Wings against the Chicago Blackhawks?

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Soupsnake's avatar

Wings in 3

Posted by Soupsnake from Canton, Mi on 05/13/13 at 02:30 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

What the hell is up with Helm, for Helm’s sake!

No really. What’s up with Helm?

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 05/13/13 at 02:45 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Wings in 3

Posted by Soupsnake from Canton, Mi on 05/13/13 at 02:30 PM ET

Posted by SYF from Zata's Epic Viking Beard on 05/13/13 at 02:48 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

This coming from the sonuvabitch who kept saying, “I like our team,” and “Having those guys back would be like a deadline acquisition,” while we were about turn him over to the Inquisition.

one of these years, we’ll all learn to just shut up and trust him…

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/13/13 at 03:06 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

No really. What’s up with Helm?
Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 05/13/13 at 02:45 PM ET

Don’t know. I don’t know if Babs was effin with the ducks last night, but both TooToo and Emmerton skated in the pregame warmups. They, of course, were healthy scratches.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 05/13/13 at 03:12 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

Ken Holland said it and Paul related it to you, not me.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 05/13/13 at 02:10 PM ET

oh I see.  so I’m just some random guy on the Gore and I’m supposed to pay attention to details?  the major media doesn’t…why should I?

grin

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/13/13 at 03:20 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

No really. What’s up with Helm?

last I heard he was going on the road trips in the Ducks series, to see how his back would hold up.  from the sounds of it, his back is a mess.  personally, I have a feeling he’ll never play again…

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/13/13 at 03:21 PM ET

TKShreve's avatar

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/13/13 at 03:21 PM ET

Hey Paul,

Would you be a lad and post that “Our Playoff Streak is Older Than Your Team” photo Plz? Cannot find it on line. Good stuff.

I would like to add it to the small shrine I have concocted on my cubicle at work. Only 19 pieces of flare allowed. No more, no less. All Shenanigans.

 

Posted by TKShreve from East Uptown on 05/13/13 at 03:26 PM ET

CaptNorris5's avatar

A common theme here has been that Jimmy’s gonna have to be great for the Wings to have a chance at the WCF.

Agreed.

I don’t think it’s gonna be Jimmy that makes that happen though. The key is playing more on the other end of the ice. Even when the Ducks weren’t getting SOG, they were fore checking and fore checking and creating turnovers and keeping the puck along our side of the ice (or slush, for games 1,2,5, and 7). That’s a helluva workload for a guy - having to be constantly alert, constantly adjusting angles, constantly battling guys in his crease. That leads to fatigue, which then leads to soft goals. Jimmah’s play through 40 in these games has been mostly stellar. The softies have come later in the game for the most part.

Keep the puck on the other end of the ice and I bet Jimmy’s performance will be just damn fine.

Posted by CaptNorris5 from The Winged Wheel, stuck in Chicago on 05/13/13 at 03:26 PM ET

klank's avatar

We’re not playing the #1 seed. We’re not playing the best overall group in the NHL. We’re playing the next team in our way to the cup. That’s my mindset.

This!

Posted by klank from the finest hot tub in Marin on 05/13/13 at 03:28 PM ET

Avatar

This is gonna come down to the goaltender. Not Howard, Crawford. The Bowmans in Chicago are currently practicing the old Red Wings model of “put any old guy in net and spend the money around him.” That worked okay at times with Osgood and worked well with Vernon, but it failed terribly with Legace. The Hawks are about to find out which of type of guy Crawford is. Up to this point, he’s had a free ride. That ride stops now.

Hawks will still get their goals. There’s nothing the Red Wings defense can do to stop that—they’re outmatched. But The Red Wings have enough creativity up front that Crawford’s finally going to be tested, too. I anticipate a high scoring series, where the Hawks have the puck more than the Red Wings, but that’s not nearly as unwinnable as the two teams’ regular season records suggest it would be. I know Howard’s a pretty decent tender. I know no such thing about Crawford and know that Emery has a degenerative hip condition.

Depending on what odds I can get, I might bet the underdog.

Posted by larry on 05/13/13 at 03:32 PM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Posted by TKShreve on 05/13/13 at 03:26 PM ET

I can’t find a good quality one, but there’s a copy here:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=405535839554349&set=a.222886471152621.49076.222878684486733&type=1&theater;

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 05/13/13 at 03:34 PM ET

CaptNorris5's avatar

As a follow up to my rant on Howard re: fatigue in the third:

Through 40, Jimmy posted at .945 SV% in the WCQF. From 40:00 - 60:00, he rocked a .820.

Obviously there are other factors, including the fatigue of the guys in front of him leading to better quality chances, but lightening our netminder’s workload is going to be key from here out.

Posted by CaptNorris5 from The Winged Wheel, stuck in Chicago on 05/13/13 at 03:38 PM ET

SYF's avatar

TKShreve:

Posted by SYF from Zata's Epic Viking Beard on 05/13/13 at 03:46 PM ET

TKShreve's avatar

Thanks Forlorn! It’s a little chewy, but it’ll do!

Posted by TKShreve from East Uptown on 05/13/13 at 03:47 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

The Hawks are about to find out which of type of guy Crawford is. Up to this point, he’s had a free ride. That ride stops now.

interesting point, Larry.  the Wings are better than Minnesota.  it’s not just a tougher series for the Wings…it’ll be a tougher series for Chicago.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/13/13 at 03:51 PM ET

TKShreve's avatar

SYF FTW!

Posted by TKShreve from East Uptown on 05/13/13 at 04:01 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Don’t thank me.  Thank PaulIMB.  It was in the R.E.L.A.X. pre-game thread posted by Chief.

Posted by SYF from Zata's Epic Viking Beard on 05/13/13 at 04:03 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Keep the puck on the other end of the ice and I bet Jimmy’s performance will be just damn fine.

Doesn’t this explain why the Hawks are among the leaders (if not first) in goals against this year?  Their D is very good, but it’s their possession that makes the stats what they are.

Posted by MoreShoot on 05/13/13 at 04:19 PM ET

TKShreve's avatar

Their D is very good, but it’s their possession that makes the stats what they are.

Posted by MoreShoot on 05/13/13 at 04:19 PM ET

That may be true. Silly hawks. I also like to reminisce of the days when the Wings possession was second to none. And we still have a few players left who were part of that system.

Fwiw…. I think this is an area that Filpula excels. Minus his jaw-dropping giveaway the other night, he will still hold onto the puck instead of the dump and change tactic we see all to often. I give him props in that dept.

Posted by TKShreve from East Uptown on 05/13/13 at 04:33 PM ET

Avatar

Don’t know about “Coach of the Year” or “GM of the year” but man, if there is a category for “Best Hair” the Wings management, from Holland to Babcock has got that one in the bag every year.  What mane’s those two have.

Posted by bababooey on 05/13/13 at 04:49 PM ET

Alan's avatar

We’re not playing the #1 seed. We’re not playing the best overall group in the NHL. We’re playing the next team in our way to the cup. That’s my mindset.

FUCH YEAH! Let’s go Red Wings!

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 05/13/13 at 05:22 PM ET

Avatar

In Howard’s defense, he faced a lot more rubber than most of the guys that have posted superior SV%s.

Howard: 32 shots against per game.

Reimer faced 39.5, Rask had 34.3, Lundqvist 31.8, Anderson 36, Holtby had 29.7, Quick 29.5, Niemi 31.5.

So… I pretty much completely disagree.  The only guys ahead of him on the % list who he faced ‘a lot more’ shots than are Crawford (27ish) and mayyyybe Quick.  Other than that the guys who were stopping a lot more were seeing as many or more rubber than he was per game.

one of these years, we’ll all learn to just shut up and trust him…

Heh.  I’ll take the over on whatever number of years you want to name on that one.

I don’t think it’s gonna be Jimmy that makes that happen though.

Howard’s a soon to be 5.3 mil goalie.  He doesn’t get the ‘Hey I wasn’t helped out’ excuse anymore.  If you’re making 2-3 mil, fine.  If you’re one of the highest paid starters in the game, nope.  You don’t get to point at the 25 year old rookie and go ‘how come you didn’t bail me out?’

Obviously there are other factors, including the fatigue of the guys in front of him leading to better quality chances, but lightening our netminder’s workload is going to be key from here out.

I don’t think it’s fatigue.  I think it’s the collar.  I guarantee Howard’s numbers don’t look anything like that during the regular season, even the end of the regular season, even during 2 or 3 games in 3 or 4 night stretches.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 05/13/13 at 05:43 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Oh, look at HiHD posting stats, while he never continues the conversation when stats don’t fit with his argument.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 05/13/13 at 06:07 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Did you actually watch any games HD or just read the boxscores to formulate your next imaginary argument to stand on your imaginary soap box?

And why do you the rest of you keep feeding him?  I can tell when’s he’s goading ya’ll into it, his posts turn into page long affairs.

Newsflash from the Department of the Obvious.  You’re gonna need good goaltending to win in the playoffs.  Next.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 05/13/13 at 06:08 PM ET

Bugsy's avatar

Any stories on Jonathan Ericsson? Since the Chicago debacle, he’s +2 in the playoffs, +9 in April with his only -1 game in Game 2 vs. Anaheim, even better than Kronwall (-2 in the playoffs, +5 in April). I know +/- has its flaws, but,...

Posted by Bugsy on 05/13/13 at 06:13 PM ET

Avatar

RE: DeKeyser
Permanent screws aren’t necessarily. They’re just more permanent than k wires which are always temporary. They could still be removed.

Posted by teldar on 05/13/13 at 06:18 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

We can take ‘em! 

My opinion? Chelsea Dagger is a horrible song

The whole song is absolutely terrible.  Terrible, terrible, terrible. Someone should be smacked for allowing it to be recorded.  But, that little “duh, duh du duh” ditty they play after goals is annoyingly catchy.  Jerks.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 05/13/13 at 06:36 PM ET

calquake's avatar

Did you actually watch any games HD or just read the boxscores to formulate your next imaginary argument to stand on your imaginary soap box?

And all along you thought I was the Richard around here.

Posted by calquake on 05/13/13 at 07:08 PM ET

Bugsy's avatar

I wonder what would happen to the opinions on Ken Holland if they somehow beat the Hawks.
I also noted NHL.com called MIke Babcock today in their preview the best coach in the NHL. Go figure.
I’m not saying neither are perfect, but a series win makes one look at them a bit differently, no?
My guess: the Wings can win if they get better on team defense, not just the defensemen. I think they have enough offense (not as much as Chicago, but enough) and goaltending. Tall order, but not impossible, to win in 6 or 7. However, my prediction is Chicago in 6.

Posted by Bugsy on 05/13/13 at 07:14 PM ET

Bugsy's avatar

sorry, “I’m not saying either are perfect,...”

Posted by Bugsy on 05/13/13 at 07:15 PM ET

calquake's avatar

sorry, “I’m not saying either are perfect,...”

And I’m not neither. cheese

Posted by calquake on 05/13/13 at 07:19 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

Even if we beat the Hawks (and we will!!!) we’ve still got Ian White wearing a suit for the remainder of his Wings tenure.  Filppula will have still played most of his games for us lately below expectations.  Dan Cleary will still go to bed knowing he will never have to worry about losing his roster spot.  Ryan Suter and Zach Parise will still be Minnesota Wild.  Brett Lebda will still have hope for a Training Camp invite. 

You have to understand, for a long time Kenny was THE GM in the league. He created the standard to which we hold him.  We desperately want him to keep on making the other 29 teams look bad like he did for season after season, but when he doesn’t, we get disappointed and cranky because we know he can do better.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 05/13/13 at 07:24 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

I also noted NHL.com called MIke Babcock today in their preview the best coach in the NHL. Go figure.

Babs owned Game 7.  25 points to Griffendor.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 05/13/13 at 07:25 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Howard’s a soon to be 5.3 mil goalie.  He doesn’t get the ‘Hey I wasn’t helped out’ excuse anymore.  If you’re making 2-3 mil, fine.  If you’re one of the highest paid starters in the game, nope.  You don’t get to point at the 25 year old rookie and go ‘how come you didn’t bail me out?’

Considering that the NHL’s top three goaltending tandems (in terms of salary) are sitting on their asses after one round…. and that Jimmy’s pay raise will keep Detroit in the middle of the pack in terms of overall goaltending costs… and that he has kept his team alive through the regular season and playoffs… I’d say that he has more than earned his raise with plenty of defensive excuses to spare.  There were plenty of nights that he and Pav were the only people who came to compete.  The Wings got him for fair money.

If he was set to earn Rinne type money, and he isn’t, it would be a different discussion.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 05/13/13 at 07:29 PM ET

Avatar

Oh, look at HiHD posting stats, while he never continues the conversation when stats don’t fit with his argument.

Enh.  I don’t go many replies deep on many threads here, mostly because it’s pointless to.  You either get it or you don’t.  Also, it’s a pain to drag through a long post and then scroll through a bunch of detritus just to dig up a possible response.

Did you actually watch any games HD or just read the boxscores to formulate your next imaginary argument to stand on your imaginary soap box?

Case in point.  That guy just doesn’t get it.  He thinks if someone uses stats they don’t watch games.  He doesn’t understand that you can actually do both… and that when you do, you are able to make cogent, rational points as opposed to goofball fluff.  Like…

Newsflash from the Department of the Obvious.  You’re gonna need good goaltending to win in the playoffs.  Next.

What you don’t understand, HO, is that people are inferring Howard’s been playing well enough to win.  He really hasn’t.  Detroit got fairly lucky against Anaheim, in that the inferior goaltender in the series still won.  That doesn’t happen a whole lot anymore.  What my point actually is, is that Howard’s got to play substantially better for Detroit to have a real chance at getting past Chicago.

For whatever reason me using stats to illustrate that offends you in some way.  Oh well.  Go color something and you’ll feel better.

and that he has kept his team alive through the regular season and playoffs

14th in playoff GAA and save%.  Howard’s been a below average NHL playoff goaltender both this year and over his whole career.

If he was set to earn Rinne type money, and he isn’t, it would be a different discussion.

That seems like a poor standard.  I think if a guy is getting paid big money, he should be held to big money standards… and 5.3 mil a year for 6 years is big money.  If you’re only going to hold Howard at 5.3 mil a year to the standards you’d hold guys making 2 mil a year less… why, exactly, is spending that extra 2 mil a year a good idea?

And that sets aside the general principle that spending big money on a goalie is stupid in the first place, which this year has demonstrated (again), considering 13 of the top 15 active salary cap hits at goalie either didn’t make the playoffs or got bounced in the first round, which might go to 14 if Lundqvist loses.

The one that advanced?  The #15 active salary cap hit, Niemi.

The goalies who’ve advanced?

Niemi at 15 (17 on the raw list), Rask at 21, Anderson at 23, Crawford at 27, Howard at 28, Vokoun at 30, Quick at 32, Reimer at 33.

I mean, come on.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 05/13/13 at 07:59 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

I hope you put a lot of time and effort into that post HD cause I didn’t read a word of it.  I’d rather wax hockey with Adrain Dater.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 05/13/13 at 08:22 PM ET

Avatar

and that he has kept his team alive through the regular season and playoffs

I want to make a quick sub point to this.

As a public service announcement, HO, this is going to include numbers, so hide somewhere for a few minutes till the bad things are gone.

Howard has one career playoff shutout in 35 starts.

In his career Howard has had 13 playoff starts where Detroit has scored either 1 or 2 goals of support.  He has won exactly none of those games.  0-13.

In his career Howard has had 9 starts where Detroit has scored exactly 3 goals.  He is 5-4 in those games.

He’s 17-18 in his playoff career, so considering the aggregate 5-17 getting 3 goals or less (good God) that means in starts where he’s gotten 4+ goals of support he’s 12-1.

So… tell me how that kind of playoff goaltending is worth 5.3 mil a year, exactly?  It’s not awful… but it looks a whole lot like Chris Osgood’s regular season career.  Howard has never won a ‘goatenders battle’, those games that are 1-0 or 2-1.  Never.  He’s barely .500 when he gets 3 goals.  He’s run it up when he gets 4+, which… duh.

That’s the kind of thing that makes me incredibly nervous about not only Detroit’s chances this year in round 2, but their playoff chances moving forward.

If all Howard is is a playoff goalie that you have to score 3 just to have a coin flip shot at winning a playoff game, paying that guy 5.3 makes it that much harder to score the 3+ you have to.

Maybe he’ll get better.  That would be fantastic.  Hope it happens.

There’s just nothing that’s happened so far to suggest it.

Someone tell HO he can set down the binky now.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 05/13/13 at 08:25 PM ET

Avatar

I hope you put a lot of time and effort into that post HD cause I didn’t read a word of it.

I wouldn’t expect you to, nor would I expect you to understand it if you did.  It’s largely not something even targeted at you, per se, beyond peripherally involving you as an example of the kind of puffball silliness I was referring to.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 05/13/13 at 08:26 PM ET

bleep bloop's avatar

As crazy as it sounds, the odds now are closer than what they were before we played the Fowl.

Posted by NIVO from underpants gnome village on 05/13/13 at 01:25 PM ET

That was the only fowl round in the playoffs so far and the only other possible one requires the Red Wings to get to the finals. Is it too early to say “let’s beat the (other) water fowls”?

Dang you!  Now I have a Rammstein song in my head.

Posted by BC on 05/13/13 at 02:26 PM ET

LIFAD track 8?


Lots of people talking about lots of stats and saying Howard has to be better. The stat that’s really important is how many times per game opposing players run, or push defenders, into the goaltender. That affects the number of rebounds sitting in the crease, which affects save percentage.
I haven’t watched the Blackhawks much this season (or at all during the playoffs), but I imagine they aren’t even in the same league as the Ducks and Sharks when it comes to running over goalies.

Also, how many times per game Corey Perry trips defenders in their own zone.

I think one of the most important issues this series will be faceoffs and who gets possession after them. If the Blackhawks always get the puck after a faceoff like the Ducks were doing early in the series, the Red Wings will spent 90% of the game in their own zone and, unless all the defensemen magically transform into Norris trophy caliber defenders or Jimmy Howard turns into a 6x4 brick wall (by far the more likely possibility), the outcome will be predictable. Only if the Red Wings consistently win possession off at least 40% of faceoffs will other factors come into play.

If the series somehow goes 7 games, I don’t think the Blackhawks will win. That would mean the Blackhawks aren’t as good as everyone thinks they are and/or the Red Wings significantly improve.

If When the Red Wings win, the conference finals will probably go to 7 games unless the Kings and Sharks kill each other, and I don’t know if they will have the energy to win that.

Posted by bleep bloop on 05/13/13 at 08:34 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.