Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Wings Only Have One Line Right Now

George is ill so what you get from me is the highlights from the Wings's loss last night to the Stars.

Hopefully it will bring some response from you because in my opinion the discussion starts with anyone not named Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Bertuzzi.

 

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Mandingo's avatar

More specifically, they have one line, a goalie who’s playing awful (highlight saves do not negate bad goals), and the worst defense corps they’ve had in 25 years.

Oh, and also they appear to have completely tuned out their head coach.

Good times.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 11/08/13 at 08:52 AM ET

Heaton's avatar

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 11/08/13 at 08:52 AM ET

And they have a GM who seems to have no clue how to react after the team stopped being elite in 2009.  Letting Nyquist sit in the AHL until he’s 25 while having players like Dan Cleary on the roster who does nothing productive?  Pathetic.

Posted by Heaton on 11/08/13 at 08:54 AM ET

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Detroit needs Weiss to step up and solidify the second line, it’s that simple.

Neither D nor Z are dominant enough individually to carry their own line anymore, which is why Holland went out and spent the money this offseason on forwards like Weiss and Alfredsson, so he could have a couple guys playing the second line who are competent without having their hands held.

That hasn’t worked out yet with Weiss, and until it does it’s going to be a big problem for Detroit.  Until Franzen-Weiss-Alfredsson (or someone in for Franzen) becomes a solid second line Detroit is going to have real problems.  That’s also why I didn’t mind Detroit losing Fil for comparable money.  We all know he can’t carry a second line either.

I’m not worried too much about the bottom 6.  For the most part those guys are all playing to expectations (mine, anyway), it’s just that you can’t reasonably expect any of them to be offensive contributors with the possible exception of Sammy, who may or may not be hurt/done like dinner.  Even including him, I don’t see anyone in the bottom six who can be individually productive on offense.  Stick them with D and Z, sure.  By themselves… not so much.

All of that said though, Detroit did score 3 goals last night.  3 should be enough to get 2 points most of the time, depth scoring problems or not.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/08/13 at 08:56 AM ET

Mandingo's avatar

Not to add cargo to the pain train, but I realized something disturbing last night:

Every team the Red Wings have played this year (that I’ve seen…I missed a couple games) has been faster than them.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 11/08/13 at 09:01 AM ET

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Oh, and also they appear to have completely tuned out their head coach.

That’s a joke, right?  I mean, didn’t we just go through the ‘we should win games 2-1 and give up 20 shots’ story a week ago? 

And they have a GM who seems to have no clue how to react after the team stopped being elite in 2009.  Letting Nyquist sit in the AHL until he’s 25 while having players like Dan Cleary on the roster who does nothing productive?

Hello, salary cap and poor draft position for 20+ years.  And again, please don’t set yourself and Nyquist up for failure by overrating him.  Tatar is 95% of the offensive player Nyquist is at an absolute minimum and he’s not exactly lighting up the world.

What Holland and Babcock appear to be doing is allowing for the likely reality that neither Nyquist nor Tatar are 20 goal scorers who can function at a high level in both directions, so rather than gut the team defense by putting both up in large(r) roles they’re trying to win games 3-2, 2-1… with that goaltender they just started paying 5.3 mil a year.

And E being out doesn’t help much either.

 

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/08/13 at 09:05 AM ET

Mandingo's avatar

  Oh, and also they appear to have completely tuned out their head coach.

That’s a joke, right?  I mean, didn’t we just go through the ‘we should win games 2-1 and give up 20 shots’ story a week ago?

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/08/13 at 09:05 AM ET

OK, that’s one game this year where they appeared to respond. What about the other 16?

If you can explain to me why, for the last 2+ years, Babcock has appeared befuddled by his team’s play and given post-game interview after post-game interview about “not being prepared” or “not starting on time” or “not playing to our structure,” I’m all ears. I refuse to believe it’s just a talent gap. Sorry.

None of this means Babcock is a bad coach. I think he’s a great coach. But even great coaches get tuned out sometimes. Babcock himself has admitted this many, many times.

I put their struggles entirely on the players.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 11/08/13 at 09:13 AM ET

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Even including him, I don’t see anyone in the bottom six who can be individually productive on offense.

Well, nobody here ever, ever, ever, ever, ever accused you of being smart.

Posted by Garth on 11/08/13 at 09:18 AM ET

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No one is saying Nyquist is going to be Datsyuk 2.0 if he is called up. But he was a + player in he playoffs last year on a line with two other rookies. Only 2 pim, one gwg. He held his own against two of the top teams in the west.

He has some speed, can hold on to the puck, can score a little. He is not that big of a defensive liability.

Posted by lancer on 11/08/13 at 09:28 AM ET

11B4PF7 in MN's avatar

Is there a reason Tatar played just over 8 mins last night?  I’m not saying he is the answer, but I found his ice time a bit odd—unless Babcock reverted back to the vet wins out on ice time bs again.

As for the speed of te wings game, that has bothered me too.  I think it is a combination of a lack of legit puck moving def (beyond kronwall) and slow forwards (usual suspects here).

Posted by 11B4PF7 in MN on 11/08/13 at 09:37 AM ET

Red Winger's avatar

I don’t see how it’s even a question anymore if the team has tuned out Babcock. All the signs are there:

...inability to play (try) for sixty minutes. Put in a good thirty or forty, then you don’t feel quite as guilty on pay day.

...total lack of focus at the end of periods

...a befuddled coach after most games, whose answers now are so formulated they make politicians look like Socrates

I think part of the problem, too, is that Holland and Babcock are always in some type of perpetual pissing match. Not so bad that they cannot work together, but enough tension that the players sense the guys pulling in separate directions (Babs: give me some youngsters to teach!  Tick Tock: here’s your vets, do something with them!)

Also, Jimmy is not playing in any way, shape, or form as an elite goalie. Hell ,Team USA would be wasting their time if they are seriously considering him as a starter.

Z and Pav are carrying this team, and that will burn them out real quick.

Way too many passengers on the Wings bus 2013-2014.

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 11/08/13 at 09:40 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Welcome to the long-term reprocussions of the Line Blender, which Babcock never seems to learn from.  If guys have played together a long time they can swap/switch.  There are too many guys in the forward corps right now though that aren’t quite comfortable enough to do that.  Alfredsson is being 100% wasted at the moment IMO.

There are guys who aren’t producing but *are* playing well.  Unfortunately, when your linemates change 3 times a game, I don’t know what’s to be expected.

Even Pavel and Z had this happen last night when Babcock got the bright idea of “Hey, Bert scored with them, so let’s move him from them and put Sammy there instead”.  That ended quickly, but it never should have happened at all.

I don’t get the Jimmy hate.  He played fine.  I have yet to read anyone blaming Jimmy to give any specific examples of how it’s his fault, of what he could have done on the goals against.  The d-men need to clear the crease/shooting lanes so he’s not screened by 2 or 3 guys, and they need to not do things like leave Horcoff wide open in front of the net unattended.  Pretty basic, simple stuff.

I said it on A2Y and I’ll say it here:  the entire coaching staff dropped the ball last night.  All of them.  Giving up goals with under 2:00 and 1:00 to play in a period is unacceptable.  The Wings gave up goals under 2:00 THREE TIMES last night.  THREE TIMES.  Once is an accident, three times is the coaching staff not doing their job/not getting through to players.  And I was SORELY disappointed that Babcock didn’t say as much in his post-game comments.

To be honest, given constant lineup changes with having so many forwards, I don’t think that’s helping either.  And that’s Kenny’s fault.  He keeps waiting for it to “sort itself out” and in the meantime DET’s losing points they really should be getting.  I wonder what he’s willing to sacrifice of the season just so he doesn’t have to grow a set and make a hard decision or two… apparently a lot.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 10:05 AM ET

DocF's avatar

The one bright spot for the Red Wings so far this year has been the play of Todd Bertuzzi.  Did I just write that?  Yah, you betcha, he is playing better than he has since before the Moore incident.  That is why the first line is perking.  The rest of the team needs to get into gear. 

Now I know the vast majority of the rabid fan base is right (far right?) but Cleary’s play has also been a positive this season.

I am convinced, however, that playing Samuelsson for any reason means the team will lose.  He manages to suck the life out of the winged wheel.  Bite the bullet and waive him, don’t worry about the cap hit, just get rid of him.

A very effective and fast line would be Miller, Eaves and Helm.  Another effective line would be Nyquist, Andersson and Tatar.  I am surprised by the defensive effectiveness of Tatar.  He can play on both ends.

The defensive corps needs a major shakeup and that will not happen this season unless someone gets seriously injured.  Almquist, Sproul and Oulette are right now ready and better than are the current iteration of Brendan Smith or Quincy or, for that matter, Lashoff.

When he is healthy, Ericsson has been the best defenseman on the team.  Kindl has improved his play a lot as has Lashoff, but the latter is a player of limited abilities.  DeKeyser is a work in progress, but he starts at a much higher level than most stay at home defensemen.  He will develop into an elite player sooner rather than later.

Almquist fascinates me.  I see a guy who reminds me of a very young N. Lidstrom.  If he develops into 70% of the player that Lidstrom became, he will be great.

Goalie does not worry me.  Despite what some here say, Howard is an elite goalie.  NO ONE, not Patrick Roy, not Martin Brodeur, not Johnny Bower, not Terry Sawchuk, could stop shot after shot when his skaters leave him hanging out there with no help. 

Now, I have said for more than three years that Babcock should go because the players are tuning him out.  The other two things I notice with him are his absolute,  total pig-headed stubbornness and his seeming major focus on the upcoming Olympics.  He is not paying enough attention to his day job.

Posted by DocF from Now: Lynn Haven, FL; was Reidsville, NC on 11/08/13 at 10:08 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Welcome to the long-term reprocussions of the Line Blender, which Babcock never seems to learn from.  If guys have played together a long time they can swap/switch.  There are too many guys in the forward corps right now though that aren’t quite comfortable enough to do that.  Alfredsson is being 100% wasted at the moment IMO.

To expand on this, because I’m sure otherwise someone will complain about the statement…

Alfredsson and Weiss are new to the team.  Eaves and Helm are just coming back from injury and getting back up to speed.  Samuelsson plays off and on, but not regularly.  Tatar has still not been in regularly.  That’s 6 guys right there:  a full half of your forwards corps.

Now add in that the defensive corps is also a turnstile form game to game including a kid making only his 2nd ever start and, well… it shouldn’t surprise why there’s some cohesion problems.

You just can’t be f**king around with lines (especially in-game) in that scenario.  And too often that’s Babcock’s fix-all for everything.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 10:11 AM ET

Primis's avatar

The one bright spot for the Red Wings so far this year has been the play of Todd Bertuzzi.  Did I just write that?

I have never, ever, wanted Todd Bertuzzi on this team.  And I have never thought he brought anything to the team really (aside form occasionally and early penalty to kill off).

I am surprised at his play this year.  He has been quite good in both ends.  I’m pretty impressed.  I didn’t think he had it in him at this point in his career.

I am surprised by the defensive effectiveness of Tatar.  He can play on both ends.

Yeah I don’t know that he can ever become a Datsyuk in his own end (or even a Nyquist, like he was in his own end in the playoffs last year), but the kid’s compete level is off the charts.  It really is.  He *hates* losing a puck.  He hates not getting a shot off.  He hates missing the net or making a save easier for a goalie.  I think it’s sheer drive that makes his effective in his own end.  He doesn’t have the best instincts there, but he makes up for it some in sheer will.  Wings need him in the lineup badly.

Good stuff just tends to happen with him on the ice.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 10:21 AM ET

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Weiss has been very good the last two games, especially on draws (9 for 9 in Winnipeg and 17 of 23 last night) and defensively.  Plus vs. Dallas he had a couple of good shots on goal and some nice dishes to linemates.  We all would have liked to see more offensively from him thus far, but I think he’s on his way to getting better. 

Re-signing Cleary was one of the biggest off-season blunders by Kenny (the other not adding a top 4 defenseman).  1. It’s keeping Nyquist in GR, and 2.  He’s just too slow (never mind his weak shot and inability to finish) to be effective any longer.  And there’s a chance Holland will give him a 2 or 3 yr. deal after this season.  As noted above in others’ comments, the team is slow as a group.  Bert has been playing well, but he’s the slowest of the bunch and just loops on the ice - no stops and starts. 

Also, it’s hard to win on a consistent basis with a defense as bad as the Wings have at the moment.  Quincey and Smith have no hockey sense at all, lost all hope for these to guys.  Lashoff is just a guy, better suited for the 7th D role… not having to play meaningful mins. regularly.  The team needs Big E to get healthy in a hurry. 

Lastly, can’t finish this post without bashing Dennis LaRue for the goalie interference call on Abby last night… what a horses%^t call.  Perhaps Abby should have been smarter about the situation, but he barely touched Lehtonen. 

Posted by Uncle Rico on 11/08/13 at 10:36 AM ET

Tracy from T-Town Hockey 's avatar

I think Weiss has slowly been improving from game to game.  He is becoming more comfortable with his defense and is now starting to work on his offense. By mid season he should be producing for us, if he can keep at least one consistent linemate.  I hate to say it, but keeping Tatar out of the line up got him to improve his defense.  Message finally received.  The fourth line last night looked awful.  They were unable to sustain any pressure.  Miller has only looked good on the PK this year.  Ericsson is badly missed but I have noticed Lashoff starting to incorporate some physicality into his game.  I don’t get why Sammuelson was on the top line for a shift last night when it was the only one working.  Why change that?  Maybe Bert had an equipment issue? Otherwise doesn’t make sense.  As for Nyquist, he proved last year that he can produce in this league.  He has slick hands.  I noticed some pretty creative moves from him in the playoffs last year.  Put on a line with Andersson his defense is less of an issue.  Andersson helped cover for Brunner and his defense was attrocious. 
Just my Red Wing Rambings for the day.

Posted by Tracy from T-Town Hockey on 11/08/13 at 10:53 AM ET

Tracy from T-Town Hockey 's avatar

Oops Ramblings forgot the l

Posted by Tracy from T-Town Hockey on 11/08/13 at 10:56 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

I think everyone needs to calm down.  The Wings are gonna be fine.  We aren’t even twenty games in for goodness’ sake.  Jimmy Howard is playing good enough for them to win almost every night.  The defense is looking better than last year and so is the offense.  The Wings shouldn’t have gone to overtime last night, and I’m happy to put that on the referees.  That goalie interference call was weak, and the Stars got the best of the situation.  The Wings deserved the win last night IMO.

We seem to forget that the other team is good too.  They’re gonna get their share too.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 11/08/13 at 11:10 AM ET

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Dan Cleary is a joke. The guy is a dinosaur that would lose a race to a tortoise. But give him top 6 minutes? Makes perfect sense. My patience is as thin as it’s ever been with Babcock and Holland. This lineup is ridiculous meanwhile Nyquist continues to dominate the AHL. Great off-season moves Holland.

Posted by ZandPasha11 on 11/08/13 at 11:15 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Is there a reason Tatar played just over 8 mins last night?  I’m not saying he is the answer, but I found his ice time a bit odd…

What makes it almost criminal is that Sammy played three minutes more and Cleary got double the ice time. Tatar must have done something that pissed Babcock off, but I didn’t see it. Maybe he didn’t like it that Tatar got stoned by Lehtonen at the eight minute mark of the 2nd period. Anyone have a link to a site that shows the TOI shift by shift?

As for the defense, Quincey is looking more and more like Lilja every day – just a pylon standing out there for the opposition to skate around. If Holland had gotten him for a third-round pick, he would have gotten screwed. But a first rounder? That’s a “getting-bent-over-the-table” kind of violation.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/08/13 at 11:24 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Anyone have a link to a site that shows the TOI shift by shift?

http://www.extraskater.com/game/2013-11-07-stars-red-wings

I *think* that’s what JJ was using.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 11:43 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Disclaimer - I missed last night’s game because of work meetings that went WAY too long. I did not see the game.


Mickey Redmond said it would probably take Weiss 15-20 games to get his skates under him this season, and once again Mickey looks sage-like. Sure the Wings have problems, and they look a lot like iterations of the problems they’ve had in the past. Does anyone remember 2011 when the injury bug destroyed the lineup? Holland seems to building for 2011 rather than 2013 by keeping the back bench deeper than it needs to be while staying overstocked on stale role players.

They really need to crap or get off the pot already. Package a few prospects to a few role players and hope for the best. With the cap decline this year, there’s no one hovering above the cap floor that would LOVE to get Samuelsson’s contract to bump them in the short term. That contract is an albatross. Sammy won’t be moved (NTC) and he’s eating Nyquist’s roster spot.

In a parallel universe, I’d see Cleary playing in Philly, Sammy back in Europe and the wings would have Nyquist/Jarnkrok/Helm right behind Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Alfredsson

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 11/08/13 at 11:53 AM ET

Primis's avatar

I’m going to move this over from the A2Y game thread:

DET’s record and position is a bit deceiving right now.  The only games they’ve LOOKED good in were against Philly and Colorado.  They often seem to stumble into a point or two.  DET is getting beat at home, a lot.

And their GA (45) are still greater than their GF (43).  For perspective, only FLA and BUF have worse goal ratios in their division.

All indicators are that they can’t keep this up, at some point the points will stop coming.  That’s a *huge* problem, if this is what the team actually is.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 11:59 AM ET

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 12:01 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

http://www.extraskater.com/game/2013-11-07-stars-red-wings

Holy moly. That looks like TPSH’s Jackatorium site. smile

Thanks, Primis, but that doesn’t seem to show how much time each player was on the ice on a shift by shift and period by period basis. But I might have missed it.

There used to be a site that showed TOI in a graphic format. You could actually see by the colored bars which guys were on the ice (and for how long) at any moment in a game.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/08/13 at 12:14 PM ET

Red Winger's avatar

Now, I have said for more than three years that Babcock should go because the players are tuning him out.  The other two things I notice with him are his absolute,  total pig-headed stubbornness and his seeming major focus on the upcoming Olympics.  He is not paying enough attention to his day job.

Posted by DocF from Reidsville, NC on 11/08/13 at 10:08 AM ET

I was worried about that when he was announced as coach again, and sure enough, the worry is warranted. The same thing happened four years ago. Babs was laser-liked focused on the Olympics, and the team paid a price for the first -half of the season

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 11/08/13 at 01:02 PM ET

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http://www.shiftchart.com/

Posted by AZWinger on 11/08/13 at 01:07 PM ET

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And clearly Andersson and Abby were the doghouse too based on TOI.

And Abby for other reasons as well…

But…We have Weiss, Bert, Helm, Sammy, Eaves, Miller who all missed significant playing time in the last two seasons. Our defense consists of a bunch of under 25 year olds and one 27 year old who obviously wishes he was still playing in Colorado. The team is a work in progress with some obvious contractual mistakes taking up space.

Posted by AZWinger on 11/08/13 at 01:21 PM ET

Mandingo's avatar

  DET’s record and position is a bit deceiving right now.  The only games they’ve LOOKED good in were against Philly and Colorado.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 12:01 PM ET

I’d argue that they outplayed Edmonton as well. Other than that, I agree with your assessment.

They’ve been outplayed in 14 of 17 games this year. I don’ t that’s hyperbole or my standard black cloud stuff either. I don’t think you can make a case that they outplayed any other teams.

I’ve been down on the Wings for the past few seasons, but this is the first season I can ever remember where the “too old, too slow, and not tough enough” mantra has actually applied. They are getting BEAT. It’s not about wins and losses. They cannot impose their will.

Is there anyone reading this thread who didn’t know after Abdelkader took that f*cking ridiculous penalty last night that they were going to lose? Hell, they should’ve lost in regulation. They gave up a great scoring chance after Dallas tied it on the PP as well.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 11/08/13 at 01:22 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

Now, I have said for more than three years that Babcock should go because the players are tuning him out.  The other two things I notice with him are his absolute,  total pig-headed stubbornness and his seeming major focus on the upcoming Olympics.  He is not paying enough attention to his day job.

Posted by DocF from Reidsville, NC on 11/08/13 at 10:08 AM ET


I have said pretty much the same thing a few times over the course of the past three years. In 2010 we had the same thing going in regards to the Olympics. Then, Babcock found time to write a book.  He gets paid to win Stanley Cups not Olympic Gold.

  Mike Babcock is a man that is not too keen on admitting when he is wrong.  He is unbendable. His pride gets in the way far too often. He may be a good or even a great coach, but, maybe it’s not working in Detroit anymore. He has had the best players to ever play the game on his team, and has only one Stanley Cup to show for it in 9 years. He is the one that draws up the game plan, and implements his system. He is calling the shots behind the bench.

Maybe he needs to sit down and read “Leave No Doubt- A Credo for Living” by Mike Babcock.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 11/08/13 at 01:33 PM ET

Primis's avatar

http://www.shiftchart.com/

Posted by AZWinger on 11/08/13 at 01:07 PM ET

You are a hateful person to show me that.

Posted by Primis on 11/08/13 at 01:39 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

http://www.shiftchart.com/

Posted by AZWinger

Thanks, AZ. That looks like it could be what I’m looking for. But, unfortunately, it won’t load the chart in either Safari or Firefox on my version of OS X (damn Windoze-centric world).

If it’s not too much trouble, could someone look and see how Tatar’s shifts were spread out? He seemed to play pretty regularly in the first period and then I don’t remember seeing him much after he missed that scoring chance early in the 2nd period. I’m just trying to see if Babcock “punished” him for failing to score there.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/08/13 at 01:56 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

  Mike Babcock is a man that is not too keen on admitting when he is wrong.  He is unbendable. His pride gets in the way far too often.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 11/08/13 at 01:33 PM ET

Kate, we’re only 13 years into the 21st Century, and I am certain your comment will be a finalist for Understatement of the Century.

And the Chip Diller Award goes to Bezukov!

I think everyone needs to calm down.  The Wings are gonna be fine. 
Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 11/08/13 at 11:10 AM ET

 

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 11/08/13 at 02:09 PM ET

Joe Z.'s avatar

I don’t get the Jimmy hate.  He played fine.  I have yet to read anyone blaming Jimmy to give any specific examples of how it’s his fault, of what he could have done on the goals against.  The d-men need to clear the crease/shooting lanes so he’s not screened by 2 or 3 guys, and they need to not do things like leave Horcoff wide open in front of the net unattended.  Pretty basic, simple stuff.

First goal is on the team, agreed.

Second Goal was display of 5-hole-Jimmy, there was no greate deke, no great shot.

Third Goal was on Jimmy too, if a goalie gets his blocker on the puck but the puck still goes in, the goalie simply wasn’t good enough.

Fourth Goal was bad luck paired with bad positioning from Jimmy:

 

Posted by Joe Z. from Austria on 11/08/13 at 02:09 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Is it a case of the malaise of the team in front of him finally infecting Jimmah?

The D sucks in front of him, the team shows up late if at all, everyone has tuned out the coach, why the hell should he bust his ass sort of thing?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 11/08/13 at 02:14 PM ET

Joe Z.'s avatar

not saying that I hate Howard or that he’s a bad goalie, in my opinion he is a good goalie. But last night’s loss was on him. I bet he knows it and I’m sure he will come back strong against Tampa, because that’s who he is.

Posted by Joe Z. from Austria on 11/08/13 at 02:17 PM ET

Avatar

Tatar’s shifts were spread out?

Tatar played 0 shifts after the 49 minute mark and only 3 shifts in the 3rd period. Same with Sammy. Andy played 1 shift in the last 10 minutes (on that disaster of a PK) and 1 shift in OT.

Almquist and Quincy played 75% of the OT time. That’ll tell you something right there about the coaching.

But last night’s loss was on him

I don’t know about that. On the OT goal he has Bert and a Star skating right in front of him and Quincy as usual looked lost and way out of position.

Posted by AZWinger on 11/08/13 at 02:57 PM ET

Avatar

You are a hateful person to show me that.

It points out interesting things. Like…
Pavel, Hank, DK, and Kronwall are almost always a 4-man unit

ditto for (ready for it?)
Weiss, Alfie, Cleary, Quincy!, and Q’s partner, either Smith or Almquist.

Is it any wonder Weiss isn’t scoring with that d on the back-end?

Posted by AZWinger on 11/08/13 at 03:04 PM ET

bleep bloop's avatar

My take (from memory, without watching any highlights):

Same old, same old:
Take a 2-0 lead, give up a 2-0 lead
One line scoring only
Lose a fourth consecutive home game to fall to 3-5 at home (20th in the league)

Coming out of the defensive zone, players routinely passed up the opportunity to skate the puck out, opting to go with plenty of lateral and back passes, just delaying and letting the other team set up in neutral or get a fore check, resulting in lots of turnovers, making the inevitably cheating forwards have to rush back to defend

On offense, they had a good scoring play they kept trying, where they pass the puck out front from behind the goal line, but no one went into the slot to receive the pass, so it consistently resulted in a turnover

The officiating was kind of a joke. There was plenty of grabbing and hooking and the occasional slash, but the only things called were a weak boarding (that they’ll call every time, so at least they were consistent on that) and a goaltender interference where the forward was directed into the goalie and couldn’t stop (which they call about only one out of ten times). And for a second time, they Red Wings “potent” power play (16th) got no opportunities.

Despite recently killing however many consecutive penalties, I’ve only thought the PK was good for short periods of time. Sure, the other team isn’t scoring, but the Red Wings defenders aren’t winning any puck battles, so the puck stays in the defensive zone for about 1:30 of every 2:00. And there have been plenty of times when the other team should have scored, but for missing the net or stupidly passing up a shot (not this last game specifically)


The only really interesting thing I saw in the commentary I want to comment on is the various players mentioned:
Howard IIRC, only one of the goales could really be called his fault. Two others he was screened by his teammates, and the other one I don’t remember. So he didn’t steal the game, but he wasn’t to blame for the loss
Tatar continues to get better pretty much every game. There’s a reason he’s been playing every game since his first start this season (and that’s partly Samuelsson)
Nyquist wants the puck and worked his ass off getting it back every time he lost it last season, and got a lot better at that as he played more. The truth is that Tatar could probably get a little better if he were still in the AHL now he knows where his game is lacking, but I think Nyquist is at the point where in order to get better he has to be playing regularly in the NHL (same deal with Andersson). But we’ll have to wait until later this season for that
Almqvist is a skilled offensive defenseman, but to me he looked like a good AHLer playing against NHLers. I’m sure he’ll be good in the NHL sooner than later, but not yet (and Holland and/or Babcock seem to agree with Ouellet being recalled). But even though he got in trouble a couple times, he never hurt the team enough to say he wasn’t ready to get the opportunity
Kronwall was also mentioned once or twice, so I felt like putting this out there: the past 2 or 3 games, Kronwall has been responsible for a number of turnovers coming out of the defensive zone that he wasn’t committing earlier in the season

Posted by bleep bloop on 11/08/13 at 04:55 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

Two years ago Coach Babs admitted that the team was kinda-sorta tuning him out, so he changed the Assistants.  I, like many of you, think that perhaps they are still hearing Charlie Brown’s teacher sometimes.  http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/mike_babcock_says_the_red_wings_new_assistant_coaches_are_just_what_the_tea

He’s a hell of a coach. I’m willing (wanting?) to believe that some of this is because he is only coaching us 3/4-time with the back of his mind always on Sochi. (I think this might be Jimmy Howard’s problem, too.  He’s thinking/pushing too hard trying to get a spot on Team USA and not just relaxing and using the Force -letting his play do the talking).  Once the Olympics are over, we’ll see how well the team reacts to him as a full-time coach.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 11/08/13 at 06:26 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Tatar played 0 shifts after the 49 minute mark and only 3 shifts in the 3rd period. Same with Sammy. Andy played 1 shift in the last 10 minutes (on that disaster of a PK) and 1 shift in OT.

Posted by AZWinger

Thanks, AZ. That pretty much confirms my belief that Babs sat Tatar for not scoring on the play where Lehtonen stoned him in close. If he used that criteria for Sammy and Cleary, they wouldn’t have played more than one shift the whole game.

I don’t know why, but Babcock seems to be doing the same thing to Tatar that he did to Hudler in his first couple of years. What makes it even more baffling is the fact that Tatar is clearly busting his ass every shift trying to do the right things.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/08/13 at 06:58 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.