Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Who Do You Want If Available - Fowler, Shattenkirk Or Trouba?

from Ansar Khan of Mlive,

There is a lot to like about Fowler. He's 24, tremendously mobile, with decent size (6-1, 207). He can quarterback the power play and kill penalties. He's reasonably priced with two years remaining at a $4 million cap hit (he'll be unrestricted when it expires) and would probably like to stick around long-term since he grew up in Farmington Hills.

The Red Wings have also coveted Shattenkirk, who is a right-handed shot, unlike Fowler.

Shattenkirk, however, can become an unrestricted free agent next summer. If you're going to move a valuable asset for Shattenkirk, you'd want to have him signed to an extension at the time of the deal. But Shattenkirk would have little motivation to sign, knowing he could headline the 2017 UFA class on defense.

Trouba, a Rochester native, but has been tossed around in trade rumors for some time. He's a big (6-3, 202), young (22) shutdown defender with a good right-handed shot and was taken ninth overall in 2012. That's not the kind of player a team usually trades.

But the Jets have three other highly paid defensemen in Dustin Byfuglien, Tobias Enstrom and Tyler Myers. They need help up front.

more

Filed in: | The Malik Report | Permalink
 

Comments

 1 2 >       Next »

Figaro's avatar

Trou-ba! *clap clap*
Trou-ba! *clap clap*
Trou-ba! *clap clap*
Trou-ba! *clap clap*
Trou-ba! *clap clap*
Trou-ba! *clap clap*
Trou-ba! *clap clap*

Trouba, a Rochester native, but has been tossed around in trade rumors for some time.

I didn’t realize being a Rochester native was an undesirable quality…

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/03/16 at 06:36 PM ET

Hootinani's avatar

All depends on the price.

Trouba is the only one with a chance to be a true #1, and even that’s a long shot.  But all of them are better than most, or all, of our current crop.

Posted by Hootinani from the parade following Babs out of town on 07/03/16 at 06:46 PM ET

Avatar

1)  Trouba
2)  Shattenkirk
3)  ...
4)  Fowler

Posted by captaineclectic on 07/03/16 at 06:46 PM ET

Avatar

Trouba is the only one I’d really want.

Fowler absolutely not. I trust the warnings of the guys at WIIM.

Shattenkirk I like a lot but he’ll be 30 sooner rather than later and we need players for the long term.

Posted by McG on 07/03/16 at 07:09 PM ET

Avatar

Trouba.  Not even close. Whatever it takes. Tats and a first? Ok.  Tats and AA and a first ?  Ok.  But they have to take Ericsson.

Posted by teldar on 07/03/16 at 07:11 PM ET

Temo's avatar

But they have to take Ericsson.

And buy us a beer!

Posted by Temo from La Capital, Míchígán on 07/03/16 at 07:19 PM ET

Mr. Fix-It's avatar

If Holland has to sell the farm, aside from Larkin and AA, to get Trouba, then he should do it.

Posted by Mr. Fix-It on 07/03/16 at 07:26 PM ET

SnarkinLarkin's avatar

If the Jets are looking to trade one of their D-men so they don’t lose them to Vegas, then why would they ask for a D-man in return…that they can lose to Vegas? My guess is that you’d have to offer a proven scorer, a 1st, and if a D-man, a prospect that they could hide in the AHL or overseas for one year.
Too bad our best D prospect bait are out of options…unless Hicketts or Saarijärvi…

I really hate to give up a first, AA, or Mantha though…

Would one of Tatar/Nyquist + Helm/Sheahan + 2nd + choice of Hicketts/Saarijärvi move the needle for one of Trouba/Myers?

Posted by SnarkinLarkin on 07/03/16 at 07:42 PM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

I really hate to give up a first, AA, or Mantha though…

but you’d spend a first for a talent like Trouba, cuz you’ve seen him in the league already, and the first you’re likely to give away would never be high enough for him in a draft. so you should be glad to give a first for him.

Posted by duhduhduh on 07/03/16 at 07:59 PM ET

Chip4Pips's avatar

If Smith is included in a deal, he does not need to be protected because he will be UFA next summer and he can be resigned after the expansion draft.

Posted by Chip4Pips on 07/03/16 at 08:13 PM ET

Avatar

I think we are in consensus here, it’s Trouba. Nyquist, Mantha and first? Is it even enough?

Posted by VPalmer on 07/03/16 at 08:48 PM ET

Avatar

Beggars can’t be choosers, so I’d take any of them.

Posted by Garth on 07/03/16 at 09:01 PM ET

lakeside mall's avatar

ide prefer nyquist + tatar over the 1st and mantha in deal as weve several winger prospects that could very well end up bringing what tatar n nyquist do . and because of size both have limited ceilings . at same time if pull trigger could also bring in a vrbata short term winger replacement . pulu might figure it out and bring what tats does . all of mantha , aa , frk ready for a shot . and dont forget hudler !

say tatar + nyquist + ericsson wink for trouba + real good prospect

Posted by lakeside mall on 07/03/16 at 09:02 PM ET

duhduhduh's avatar

Beggars can’t be choosers, so I’d take any of them.

fowler’s numbers are poorer than Brendan Smith. Yes, you can choose.

Posted by duhduhduh on 07/03/16 at 09:09 PM ET

Avatar

WIN Gets:

Howard
Smith
Ericsson
Franzen
Weiss
Krupp

DET Gets:

Trouba

Sincerely,

Red Wings Fan

Posted by Eric H. on 07/03/16 at 09:17 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Any two of them are upgrades over Kronner and E.

Posted by SYF from fishing with Vicky Stark on 07/03/16 at 09:26 PM ET

Avatar

Any one of them would be an upgrade. As to what the Wings would have to give up, that’s a big question. One of our fan favourite could have to go but the upgrade on D is desperately needed.

My preference is Trouba in terms of size, age, and upward potential. My second choice would be Fowler. Still young and still has upward potential.

Posted by NewfieWing on 07/03/16 at 10:19 PM ET

Hootinani's avatar

WIN Gets:

Howard
Smith
Ericsson
Franzen
Weiss
Krupp

DET Gets:

Trouba

Sincerely,

Red Wings Fan

Posted by Eric H. on 07/03/16 at 10:17 PM ET

Have them throw in Wheeler while you’re at it, and we’ll up the ante with Cleary.

Posted by Hootinani from the parade following Babs out of town on 07/03/16 at 10:20 PM ET

All American in MN's avatar

Great, now we are going to get articles like this all summer long from the diggers.  Love the paraphrased quote from holland about why he hasn’t traded yet: ‘let’s let the dust settle around the the league’. Next we will be told he wants to focus on the developmental camp in TC this month.

The more I think about it, I feel like the diggers are just trolling us now.  Holland is never going to make a trade. We all have known that for a year. The only reason why we got our hopes up these past few weeks is because Holland promised change at the end of the season press conference. Something I cannot recall him doing in the past.  I guess we are suckers for believing it.  All we have gotten is more of the same.

Next up, sproul, nosek, and frk getting claimed on waivers this fall.  Mantha and AA sent to the minors because they can be. man’s game bitch.

Posted by All American in MN on 07/03/16 at 10:37 PM ET

Avatar

Thinking about trades and what we could have had if Holland was more aggressive I thought about Jay Bouwmeester. He’s 32, offense not top of the league but eats minutes and plans solid all around. In 2013. He was dealt to the St. Louis Blues in exchange for prospects Mark Cundari (undrafted, 8 career NHL games), Reto Berra (NHL record of 19W & 30L) and a first round draft pick in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft.

So if Detroit would have made that trade then they’d essentially be trading 2011 3rd round pick center Alan Quine, 2012 3rd round pick goalie Jake Paterson and our 2013 1st (Anthony Mantha).

Wish we had done it? Just a little context that not all assets we hoard will turn out.

Posted by Roots80 on 07/03/16 at 10:41 PM ET

Avatar

Trouba easily.  I’d give up anyone and anything not named Larkin, Mrazek or AA. C’mob Kenny.

Posted by loojay on 07/03/16 at 10:54 PM ET

NIVO's avatar

Helm+Tatar(a 2nd if needed) for Trouba.  Cant see Mantha in the deal at all. We are trying to go bigger/younger and personally I think a bad move as we havent seen Mantha up in Det at all except the 10 games or so(in which he did manage 2 PP goals). Keep the big body!

Posted by NIVO from underpants gnome village on 07/03/16 at 10:58 PM ET

lakeside mall's avatar

my veiw point is im more concerned about a dmans ability to handle puck and defend in our end than i am about his points / shot . ide prefer to spend less asset for a young top gun home end guy that doesnt have magic wheels or laser shot , but is a goalies best friend type . give me 6 of them lower scoring great in own end guys every time . the key to it is that besides being very heads up players they are very good passers who can make excellent escape passes to the forwards

Posted by lakeside mall on 07/03/16 at 11:01 PM ET

Avatar

I hope I’m wrong but with the Helm signing I can see a scenario where AA is part of the packages for a DMan. I know if I’m sending a DMan and I’m not getting Larkin AA is the next couple guys I’m asking for. I’m all for sending assets especially for a young guy like Trouba. For the most part he’s easier to project versus guys who haven’t played in the NHL yet.

Posted by Roots80 on 07/03/16 at 11:05 PM ET

Avatar

Cam Fowler is overrated. Look at his basic stats and his underlying numbers and really watch him play. Great skater, but, honestly, that’s about it. He’s not an especially great defenseman. Adding him would be adding another second-pairing defenseman.

Jacob Trouba has the potential to be a #1 defenseman. He’s a shit shot-suppressor and he’s rough around the edges, but he has so much raw talent, ability, potential. I think a Smith-Trouba pairing could be incredible.

If the rumors are to be believed about Kevin Shattenkirk, he would cost you your first-born son—and then sign in NYC next summer. Great defenseman, but the risk….

Tyson Barrie is a phenom. Few defenseman can generate offense like he can. Rumor has it Roy and/or Sakic feel he’s nothing more than a #5 defenseman, which 1) is hilarious, and 2) may mean that the ask wouldn’t be too high.

Mattias Ekholm is a player who doesn’t get much attention but is probably one of the better two-way defenseman in the league. He can suppress shots with the best of them, but he can also drive possession in the other direction and generate offense.

(P.S. Helm will not be traded. Holland doesn’t sign-and-trade. We’re stuck with Helm and his crazy contract for as long as Holland remains GM and possibly beyond.)

(P.P.S. Kris Russell is terrible.)

Posted by Dont Toews Me Bro on 07/03/16 at 11:50 PM ET

Avatar

I swear to God, if Holland moves AA in a Fowler trade, I’m *#$%@& done.

Posted by Dont Toews Me Bro on 07/03/16 at 11:55 PM ET

Avatar

Trouba for sure.

What if we gave up Tatar AND Nyquist including Smith and a 3rd.  Would anyone doubt that the Jets would most likely take that deal?  I know it would leave us really lacking some scoring, but couldn’t AA and Mantha make up for that if given a legit shot in about two seasons?  We could even toss in Ouellet, Jensen or Sproul since we’d most likely be losing one of them for lack of space on the roster. 

Zetterberg-Larkin-Athanasiou
Vanek-Nielsen-Mantha
Jurco-Sheahan-Pulkkinen
Helm-Glendening-Abdelkader
Miller, Ott

DeKeyser-Trouba
Kronwall-Green
Ouellet-Marchenko
Ericsson

Posted by Wise1 on 07/04/16 at 12:00 AM ET

Mr. Fix-It's avatar

If I were Holland, I would offer a package of Tatar, because he’ll be a RFA looking for a salary north of $5mil (that he’ll probably get from an arbitrator, if they go that route), Mantha, one of Jensen, Sproul, Oullet, one of Jurco or Pulkkinen, and one of Nosek, Bertuzzi, Frk. It is a lot to give up, but trades are hard, and you’ve got to give in order to get something significant. Like in this case, a potential franchise #1 defenseman who grew up here, played college hockey here, and actually wants to play here.

But I’m not Holland. I’ve already grown a pair. OH SNAP.

Posted by Mr. Fix-It on 07/04/16 at 12:59 AM ET

Avatar

one of Jensen, Sproul, Oullet

Holland’s going to wait until training camp, because he’ll want to “give them all a chance to make their case for sticking with the organization.” A defenseman or two will, inevitably, be injured in training camp, inevitably buying Holland at least several more months of inaction.

Were you to put a gun to Ken Holland’s head and trell him to fix this team, he would list the reasons why he hates Anthony Mantha and tell you there’s no hockey store and that he likes our team.

Posted by Dont Toews Me Bro on 07/04/16 at 05:20 AM ET

lakeside mall's avatar

currently were near no hardware but rather in a roster building mode . at same time weve prob enough to continue important streak . it puts me in a state of mind to not be rushed into adding a proven nhl stud dman as if that add makes us contenders when it doesnt . we’ll never get by tbay,florida,pitt right now . so instead of paying high price for proven guy , a guy that obviouslys team doesnt think is the greatest or they wouldnt be trading him , ide prefer trading for a stud prospect in the ahl . a 19/20/21 year old who’d cost less . then in 2 years when our current young guys start zenithing he’ll be ready to go

trading a nyquist or tatar at this time for a guy like this gets us a heck of a prospect while at same time weve guys around , vanek/pulu/frk/mantha and ufa hudler / vrbata , that could replace them . i love tatar but nyquist brings puck carry and distribution along with shootouts . and all the mentioned options are guys that could provide near as many finishes as tatar . and if im an opponant gm with d depth and need for finish ide seriously covet tatar because a combo of finish / heart / ruggedness for size . tatars very legit , which makes him a very legit offer for a stud blue chip d prospect . im in the frame of mind what does werenski cost ?????? if not him another stud blue chip like that . its a gamble trading a proven nhl sniper for young prospect , but without high pix its type gamble i make . though maybe werenski cost more than tatar im no expert , but how much more if so ?

Posted by lakeside mall on 07/04/16 at 10:05 AM ET

Mr. Fix-It's avatar

Were you to put a gun to Ken Holland’s head and trell him to fix this team, he would list the reasons why he hates Anthony Mantha and tell you there’s no hockey store and that he likes our team.

Seriously. That whole “I like our team” edict that he keeps regurgitating is getting stale.

The more time that passes, the more I get the notion that Holland’s MO is to still be regarded as “the best GM in hockey”, and refuse to bow down to a lopsided trade so that he can still be garnered with the respect that comes with it in the inner GM circle. I hope the Emperor likes his new clothes.

Posted by Mr. Fix-It on 07/04/16 at 10:08 AM ET

Avatar

Look at what Jim Nill has done in such a short time in Dallas (Seguin, Spezza, Sharp, etc). A case could be made that Nill was carrying Holland towards the end.

Posted by Roots80 on 07/04/16 at 10:57 AM ET

lakeside mall's avatar

i rip holland about his capability to rate nhl talent , and the contracts he hands out . and i truely believe hes not a real good ranker of players , hes like a teenage fan boy that sees all nhlers as great . and he hands out krazy kenny contracts to guys like cleary n helm but at same time his reasoning is that loyalty to players that have been loyal to the drw is seen by all 50 guys on the depth chart which instills more respect for the organization in them creating more driven players . hollands focused on optimizing what he gets out og each n every guy on the depth chart , hes an excellent manager / leader of people working in big picture mode

but what i dont rip and shall never rip holland for is not tanking . i hate tankning and hollands rebuild on the fly while trying to build a team that can get in and have some type chance every year is **** beautiful . ITS CALLED LEADERSHIP !! hes shooting for ultimates , looking for new ways to grow better as opposed to candy ass tanking and i am in total agreement with his philosophy !

REBUILD ON THE FLY TIL ONCE AGAIN THE BANNER FLIES HIGH !

* the bc wizards thinking on a higher plain than the masses . it’ll take a few more years to see if hes correct , to me an exciting time in drw history . the weight of hockey town piling up on ilitch / hollands / develanos shoulders . does it crush them or do they return to glory ?

Posted by lakeside mall on 07/04/16 at 11:07 AM ET

Avatar

To start, all or at least Touba and Shattenkirk are better than what is on the Wings roster. That right there should tell you its a trade worth exploring.

Trouba has easily the most upside and already could play on top pair. Plus, he’s young. You DO break the bank to make that deal. When someone suggest Nyquist, Mantha and first, I do not think that is far off and I WOULD make that deal. I prefer to give up draft pick over Svechnivkov.

Shattenkirk - a notch below Trouba but still a very good acquisition target. He’s young enough that the big contract he’ll get (better be settled beforehand) shouldn’t be an albatross. I’m hoping Nyquist and 1st and something less than Mantha gets the deal done but it’s important enough to get quality D that they might have to pay more

Fowler - he’s the choice that comes with a big WARNING. It is highly unlikely he’ll be a regular top pair guy. Therefore, the cost should be a lot less. No way I’ want to go any higher than Nyquist + first

I keep using Nyquist in these trade scenarios but it doesn’t have to be him. Any other NHL talent except Larkin should be in the discussion

If I’m Holland, I’m being aggressive on this trade even if it means giving up a bit more than you might have to down the road. They need an immediate injection of top level D talent.

Posted by evileye on 07/04/16 at 12:52 PM ET

Avatar

While we’re in desperate need of defense, I believe I would make Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha untouchable. too much prospective talent to lose. I believe our biggest concern is defensive minded Blasshill’s ability to coach this team offensively. This is an idiot whose PP went 1 for 25 in the playoffs and left his hottest(statistically) scorer Athanasiou on the bench during every PP all year long preaching he’s not an elite player yet. If I’m coach with an anemic PP I’d try almost anything.

Posted by stateofmifan on 07/04/16 at 04:46 PM ET

Mr. Fix-It's avatar

The summer of 2012 was the last time Holland overloaded with forwards. He was expected to fill out the blue line, after losing Lidstrom to retirement, and obliging Brad Stuart’s request to be sent to a southern California team. Ken Holland made these moves:

-re-signed Darren Helm from his entry level contract
-signed Damien Brunner
-signed Jonas Gustavsson
-signed Mikael Samuelsson (again)
-signed Jordin Tootoo

Then he struck out on Suter and/or Parise….so then he:
-re-signed Kyle Quincey

Then at the beginning of the lockout, he
-re-signed Justin Abdelkader from his entry level contract
-signed Carlo Colaiacovo

Then after the lockout, he
-Invited Mike Knuble to training camp, then promptly released him
-announced Tomas Holmstrom’s retirement
-signed Kent Huskins

That was an offseason that Holland had to fix the blueline, and he did it with cheap bit parts after failing to sign the big kahuna in Suter. His offseason plan was clear: overstock the cupboard with forwards in hope the scoring talent overcoming the defensive deficiencies.

Welp, guess what he’s doing again this summer? Except that a trade for a defenseman is much more dire now than it was then. But he’s not going to make a trade. He’s going to wait it out, make the free agents sweat, and offer a cheap, cheap deal to a “physical” and “puck-moving” defenseman like:

-Matt Carle, who was just bought out for sucking
-James Wisniewski, who barely played last year, is coming off injury, and reportedly hates it here
-Nikita Nikitin, who’s probably going to get more money in Europe
-Luke Schenn, who is still young enough to have some upside, yet crappy enough to require a lot of upside
-Dennis Seidenberg, who got squeezed out of Boston by hindering Zdeno Chara’s chances at another Norris because he’s a defensive suckfest
-Niklas Grossman, who sucks so much he wasn’t even re-signed by Arizona
-Christian Erhoff, who didn’t want to sign here before because “Detroit pushes their players too hard”
-Raphael Diaz, who just NO.

Nowadays, we call him Tick Tock because the clock ticks away and away, waiting for him to make a good deal.

Ah, yes. The summer of Holland.

Posted by Mr. Fix-It on 07/04/16 at 05:28 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Posted by Mr. Fix-It on 07/04/16 at 06:28 PM ET

Boom.

Posted by SYF from fishing with Vicky Stark on 07/04/16 at 05:31 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

All of the above.Lol. LOL

Posted by bigfrog on 07/04/16 at 06:21 PM ET

Avatar

Who Do You Want If Available - Fowler, Shattenkirk Or Trouba?

I want Steve Yzerman or Jim Nill, if available - of course. Until this is done nothing else matters.

I typed the above before reding Mr. Fix-it post. Boom, indeed. But you should always remember that trades are hard, especially good ones, and great D-men don’t grow on trees…

Posted by Alex7 on 07/04/16 at 06:28 PM ET

Colin's avatar

Fowler is incredibly overrated. If these journalists were worth minimum wage they would have some analysis of the advanced stats for these players, which would tell us exactly that.

For me, it’s Trouba or bust. STL has already said that Shats will most likely stay (what they want and what they can get for him right now are too far apart) and honestly, I’d rather have more size (Trouba) than more scoring (Shats).

As for what it will take to get him, you have to remember that WPG is a budget team. It’s the only reason why we even have a popsicle’s chance in hell of getting him, and it’s also the most important factor in swinging a deal for Trouba. All of you saying that we need to send Helm or Ericsson over there, I hate to say it but that is NOT happening. If WPG is going to take anybody with an NHL salary in a trade, they will have to have value relative to their cap hit, be young, and possibly locked up for a while. That leaves you with Nyquist or Tatar in terms of forwards, and practically nobody on defense. A first will be mandatory in this trade, if I were WPG’s GM I would laugh at any deal that didn’t include a 1st-rounder. Then you’re looking at everyone else being moved as a prospect.

If you want Trouba, you’re most likely looking at the following:

Nyquist/Tatar
1st round pick (2017)

That’s the base… then
1st round pick (2018)
or
Jurco/Pulkkinen and Ouellet/Sproul/Marchenko/Jensen

If it were me, I’d send Nyquist + 1st round (2017) + Pulkkinen + PYO D Prospect

IMO, sending Smith would be a huge mistake. His advanced stats show him as the ONLY top-pairing dman on our team, and pairing him with Trouba on that top pairing would be dangerous. DeKeyser/Green would make a good 2nd pairing (the one we never did like we said we would last year), and Kronwall can take cushy 3rd pairing minutes with some PK time and the remaining D prospects will fight Ericsson for the 6th spot.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 07/05/16 at 08:57 AM ET

 1 2 >       Next »

Add a Comment

Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.

Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.

Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.

Smileys

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Feed

Most Recent Blog Posts

About The Malik Report

The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.