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Turns out the ‘diggers’ were right: Red Wings out of the Lecavalier sweepstakes

It turns out that MLive's Ansar Khan and the Free Press's Helene St. James were on to something:

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Time for the boys to grow up.

Here’s the problem though.  The organization’s philosophy is to let their prospects over-ripen and now there’s the possibility that they’re going to throw a bunch of kids to the wolves and make them sink or swim as a second line?

All because they didn’t want to pay for a top-shelf-or-pretty-close-to-it veteran wasn’t worth the fairly reasonable asking price?

Both of those things seem to fly in the face of what Detroit holds as their tried and true philosophy.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:33 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

Any team who gives this guy 5 years at 5 million per year is absolutely crazy. I am ecstatic the Wings are. ” out of the vinny sweepstakes “

He is , and always was going to finish his career in a French speaking friendly market of Montreal.

Anybody who believe he is going anywhere else, is living in a fantasy world.

Posted by Down River Dan on 07/02/13 at 03:33 PM ET

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That’s all speculation that was made before this news broke.  Just because there were concerns doesn’t justify your assumption.  It sounds to me like Vinny ruled us out, not vice versa.  He might not like the weather in Detroit for all we know.

Yes, it seems that he ruled them out because -as a result of their reservations- they wouldn’t offer him the money and/or term he was looking for.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:35 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

And Syf. If we dont shore up the second line, were going back to two lines.  We rolled 3 which got us playoff success.  If we go back to two we’re lookin at more first round exits.

If youre gonna play abby up top and lose flip and brunner, you have to bring in decent skill.  Instead we’ll puut sammy back in and rock a sammy bert abbyy second line.  Because 5the years is too long to employ VL.  But we have franzen whos 1 year younger and inked 4 years longer for a whopping… 1m less… come on

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 03:36 PM ET

Ajax19's avatar

We thought his asking price was too high: he signed for $6M (a little more than our cap space). We thought he wanted long term: he signed for one season.
WHAT WAS THE RISK ON THAT DEAL??
Why no interest on Semin on those terms? Why no interest on Redden, when the defense was one injury away from dressing RWBill, when he signed a 20 cent contract?
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 07/02/13 at 04:27 PM ET

I think the fact that what he signed for was “a little more than our cap space” pretty much answers the question for Semin.

As for Wedden, I believe that the Wings did have some interest, but he ended up being choosing St. Louis because he thought it was a better fit (for whatever reason) and then was traded to Boston where he played some during the regular season and was a healthy scratch thoroughout the playoffs.

I think taking a one year flyer on Semin would have been interesting, but the Wings not getting Wedden isn’t worth fretting over.  The dude’s a non-factor.

Posted by Ajax19 on 07/02/13 at 03:36 PM ET

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That’s all speculation that was made before this news broke.  Just because there were concerns doesn’t justify your assumption.  It sounds to me like Vinny ruled us out, not vice versa.  He might not like the weather in Detroit for all we know.

Hey I’m just going by what the local beat writers have said, who thus far have been right about everything else.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 03:37 PM ET

SYF's avatar

They were forced into action earlier than the Wings wanted to due to injuries to so many people.  The Wings had like the second most man-games lost to injuries (second to OTT).  It seems to make sense to give them this progression.

I’m not happy about it neither, but here’s a chance for several draft picks to run with this opportunity.  We have to know what our investments are amounting to.

Posted by SYF from Alana Blanchard's Bikinis and Surfboards on 07/02/13 at 03:37 PM ET

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Relating to this particular subject grin

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 03:38 PM ET

Hank1974's avatar

How bout some of you guys who wang comment posters to cite sources, start
asking the diggers to do the same since they actually make money doing it.
Thats assinine to ask a poster for sources while St. James says the exact
things we reference and you dont bat an eye.

St james said the wings have concern eith Vonny’s pace and dont feel
comfortable offering more than 2before years.. so ask st james where shw
heard it…..

That’s all well and good.
But then explain them getting Bert back. Or Tootoo.

There are many examples of players being brought back for big $$ who have nothing to show for it.
Nobody is slower than Bert. And he barely hits anyone anymore. It’s like he’s in nuetral the entire game.
Then there’s Tootoo who was so good he wasn’t even given a cup of coffee in the playoffs.

KH can’t fathom having a former captain, SC winner, and soon to be 500 goal scorer on this team, but hey, lets bring back Bert, Sammy and sign Tootoo!

 

Posted by Hank1974 on 07/02/13 at 03:38 PM ET

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Any team who gives this guy 5 years at 5 million per year is absolutely crazy.

Yeah, why would any give $5M for five years to a top six forward who is big and physical, has a great shot who scores 25+ goals a year?  Especially a team looking for a top six forward who is big and physical, has a great shot and scores 25+ goals a year…

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:38 PM ET

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Any team who gives this guy 5 years at 5 million per year is absolutely crazy. I am ecstatic the Wings are. ” out of the vinny sweepstakes “

He is , and always was going to finish his career in a French speaking friendly market of Montreal.

Anybody who believe he is going anywhere else, is living in a fantasy world.

And if he signs with someone else?  what’s the excuse then?  Every tweet and article I have read has said he doesn’t want to play in Montreal due to the pressure.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 03:39 PM ET

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KH can’t fathom having a former captain, SC winner, and soon to be 500 goal scorer on this team, but hey, lets bring back Bert, Sammy and sign Tootoo!

This.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:40 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

How bout some of you guys who wang comment posters to cite sources, start asking the diggers to do the same since they actually make money doing it.  Thats assinine to ask a poster for sources while St. James says the exact things we reference and you dont bat an eye.

St james said the wings have concern eith Vonny’s pace and dont feel comfortable offering more than 2before years.. so ask st james where shw heard it…..

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 04:31 PM ET

With all due respect HO, if somebody makes a speculative assumption, which is what happened, it’s on that person to prove it.  If I happen to disagree with them or think they’re being over hasty, I’m going to call them on it.  I find cynicism annoying and intellectually slack.  I understand peoples’ beef with KH, and to an extent I agree, but accusing Holland of flubbing it at this point is plainly premature.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 03:41 PM ET

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And if he signs with someone else?  what’s the excuse then?  Every tweet and article I have read has said he doesn’t want to play in Montreal due to the pressure.

Exactly.  Hasn’t it been reported a bunch of times that he, in fact, nixed a deal to send him to the Canadiens in the past?

Why would he go there now?

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:42 PM ET

perfection's avatar

We thought his asking price was too high: he signed for $6M (a little more than our cap space). We thought he wanted long term: he signed for one season.
WHAT WAS THE RISK ON THAT DEAL??
Why no interest on Semin on those terms? Why no interest on Redden, when the defense was one injury away from dressing RWBill, when he signed a 20 cent contract?
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 07/02/13 at 04:27 PM ET

unfortunately, I think that deal and many others, weren’t an option because we were waiting on Suter and Parise to make up their minds. And while we could debate that decision for eternity, seeing how close we were to getting those guys for nothing, it seems to me like it was worth the gamble, but we did miss out on other UFA’s we may have gotten in on. At least Lecavlier made his mind up before the 5th… that is pretty classy. He knows teams need to figure out what direction they’re heading before the 5th. Now we at least have a fair shot at anyone we feel is worth it. But in a pool where Bickell at $4mil is considered a “hometown discount”, I’m not that optimistic. We may end up returning back to Brunner at closer to his asking price after all.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 07/02/13 at 03:42 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I think the fact that what he signed for was “a little more than our cap space” pretty much answers the question for Semin.

Actually, Wings ended up with 7.3M in cap space, I’m sorry.

As for Redden, I almost remember being told that there were no interest in him, I’m not sure.

But I believe we all know it’s not about Semin, Redden, even Suter or Parise. Hossa’s agent called Holland. Before that, Holland dealt for Stuart, and that was it. Since 2008, that’s it.

We “wined and dined” Suter and Parise, took friggin’ Modano to Tigers games, and that’s it. “I like our team”, “[Injured Player X] is a deadline acquisition”, those became catchphrases around here for a reason.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 07/02/13 at 03:44 PM ET

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Let’s also keep in mind the Wings shopping list at the next trade deadline, a top 6 forward, preferably one who is physical.  And then the usual excuses that come up from Holland “those guys don’t grow on trees” and here he has an opportunity to grab one, for a reasonable contract and he does nothing.  So in 2014, when the Wings complain about how hard it is to find a legitimate top 6 forward with size, we can just refer to another lost summer of UFA’s.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 03:44 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Yes, it seems that he ruled them out because -as a result of their reservations- they wouldn’t offer him the money and/or term he was looking for.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 04:35 PM ET

Thanks for the update Garth.  If only you had told us sooner that you had Vinny on the phone this whole time.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 03:44 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Good points.  Hank, cant argue with that.  Wonder the same stuff myself.

I just get peaved people always default, after of course you take the time to give numbers projections percents thought into yourr opinion, to sources? You just hate Holland, youre an antiHollanite.  Offer no counter of ANY substance and more just mad that we dont love KH. Its unreal

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 03:45 PM ET

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all i can say is Howard better make all of his money every night. Cause were gonna bottom 1/3 of the league in Goals per game. if we lose Brunner and Fil and don’t do something. oh well guess we get 2 years of the Dead Wings. then we start winning cups again with all this young talent. Who cares about winning Illich another cup he’s only 83 he can last.

Posted by GoBlue88 on 07/02/13 at 03:45 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

all i can say is Howard better make all of his money every night. Cause were gonna bottom 1/3 of the league in Goals per game. if we lose Brunner and Fil and don’t do something. oh well guess we get 2 years of the Dead Wings. then we start winning cups again with all this young talent. Who cares about winning Illich another cup he’s only 83 he can last.

Posted by GoBlue88 on 07/02/13 at 04:45 PM ET

Dude.  One FA is off the table for us.  Breathe.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 03:50 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Its not rocket science Bez.  St james aid the wings are concerned with pace and dont feel comfortable with 5the year term, wouldnt feel comfortable more than 2.  If Vinny is asking 5the years how is that not fall on KH? The real speculation is what was offer and what the wings werent happy with (but Nills ok with).. so i want to k now how helene can just say these things as facts without citing sources.. that way when someone disregards all the numbers and reports. To ask me for sources i can tell them where my sources (professional detroit writers) got it

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 03:51 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

Look at his stats. Since the 52 goal season his goals and points have decreased Every Year! ( in 2010/11 his goals went up by 1 from 24 to 25, ).

His 10 goals in 39 games projects to just over 20 for a full season. Not 25!

The wings will get these 22-24 goals and then some easily between Nyquist,Brunner,Tatar.

Also, he may be 6’4”, but he’s never played that big , and I doubt at 33 that is going to change.

 

 

 

Posted by Down River Dan on 07/02/13 at 03:54 PM ET

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Thanks for the update Garth.  If only you had told us sooner that you had Vinny on the phone this whole time.

You do realize that you’re no more correct for not believing the reports than anyone is for believing them, right?

I think that deal and many others, weren’t an option because we were waiting on Suter and Parise to make up their minds.

Semin was signed long after Parise was off the table and Redden wasn’t available until after the lockout, and by then Holland had already panicked and given a dumb contract to Glass Jaw Colaiacovo.

so i want to k now how helene can just say these things as facts without citing sources..

It’s because someone in the know in the Wings organization would probably get in trouble if his name was provided in the Free Press

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:57 PM ET

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I hope Boston gets him. We’ll have to go through them every year now just to make the finals. It’d be nice to see Hank and Pav shutting Vinny down…leaving no one to score goals while the B’s take it to our 3rd and 4th liners posing as 1st and 2nd line scoring threats.

BOO! Heh.

Posted by godblender on 07/02/13 at 03:57 PM ET

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Look at his stats. Since the 52 goal season his goals and points have decreased Every Year! ( in 2010/11 his goals went up by 1 from 24 to 25, ).

His 10 goals in 39 games projects to just over 20 for a full season. Not 25!

The wings will get these 22-24 goals and then some easily between Nyquist,Brunner,Tatar.

Also, he may be 6’4”, but he’s never played that big , and I doubt at 33 that is going to change.

grin  Imagine with Vinny would get playing second line center on this team?  He played with mostly scrubs, it’s not like the guy played with Stamkos.  Having said tha, you just made the case for us.  Vinny’s production, conservatively, would equal what 3 guys would produce.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 03:58 PM ET

Ajax19's avatar

Fellas, let’s keep a bit of perspective here.  It’s July 2nd.  Free agency doesn’t start until July 5th.

Yes, it’s unfrotunate the Wings are out of the Lecavalier bidding.  It will be extremely unfortuante if Lecavalier ends up signing somehwere else for the alleged 5 yrs/$25 million, because I think that’s a very reasonable salary and term for a player of his caliber, especially when you’re talking UFA season.

That said, there are still other options out there.  I don’t personally like any of them more than Lecvavalier, but they are sttill options.  I don’t any are as talented as Lecavalier at this point.  Those that were - Igninla and Jagr - aren’t anymore.  The younger options - Clowe, Horton, Clarkson, Weiss - aren’t as good as Vinny and Horton, Weiss and Clowe come with some legitimate injury concerns.  The others don’t quite fit the need in terms of size - Ryder (and Weiss), Dupuis, Briere.

I think we can all agree that last year’s free agency “haul” was pretty much a disaster.  It was the first summer the Wings had the cap space and need (the Hossa anomaly aside) and Holland really flubbed it.  Sure, some things were out of his control - the Suter and Parise Minnesota Dream - but he didn’t seem to have any kind of Plan B or anything. 

I also agree that the notion that Detroit is some great lure for free agents and that they should be willing to take less to play here doesn’t exist any longer.  It’s faded into myth.

Posted by Ajax19 on 07/02/13 at 03:58 PM ET

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The wings will get these 22-24 goals and then some easily between Nyquist,Brunner,Tatar.

Yes, but they would be getting them from one guy.

And, um, Brunner?  Not so sure about that…

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 03:58 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

The wings will get these 22-24 goals and then some easily between Nyquist,Brunner,Tatar.

So it’s better to get 24 goals out of 3 guys combined than just out of one guy (and perhaps PLUS the 8 goals from each of the three?)

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/02/13 at 04:02 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Brunnerr didnt wake back up until he started playing against 3rdthe liners..

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 04:03 PM ET

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(and perhaps PLUS the 8 goals from each of the three?)

Exactly.  The point of getting a top six forward (a bonafide NHL top six forward, not a prospect with half a season or less under his belt being thrust into the top six) is to complement the scoring by all the other players who are under contract (and the RFAs who soon will be under contract), not to replace them.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 04:04 PM ET

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Kenny’s thinking real hard at offering Filppula $4.5 per season I just know it!

Posted by godblender on 07/02/13 at 04:05 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 04:51 PM ET

I’m not arguing with any of that brother.  I’m willing to accept the possibility (or even likelihood) that this is the case.  I’m just going to wait until I know the truth before casting stones. 

I’m not concerned with St. James’ sources in the context of this discussion.  I just disagree with pidgeonholing the Wings management before we have heard the reasons from KH or Vinny.  If the standard of evidence on this page were used in court we’d all be in prison.

You’ve said you hate it when the assumption is made that you’re just a KH hater.  (I know that isn’t you for the record.)  So why would you make assumption in the other direction?

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 04:12 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

This is hilarious.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/02/13 at 04:13 PM ET

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A side note, since when did the Red Wings become a small market team like the Fla Panthers and have to watch their pennies and now are limited to low balling quality free agents?

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 04:13 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

You do realize that you’re no more correct for not believing the reports than anyone is for believing them, right?

Well considering my point this entire time has been that no one knows for sure at this point, I think the answer to that question is yes.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 04:17 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

This is hilarious.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 07/02/13 at 05:13 PM ET

I know I’m out of breath.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 04:17 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Most of my frustration is coming from every off season since 09, year after year.  So many of us call how itll probably shake out and its always worst case scenerio.  )* liked his team so much last year in Sept that theyre buying out every move he made.. since he cant trade them.. but i hear you im not trying to lump anyone into the other extreme. My bad if i did.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/02/13 at 04:20 PM ET

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Here is all I have to say on this, then I’m done with this topic.  Vinny had come out the second he was bought out and said the Red Wings were his favorite team and that he liked the game of Zetterberg and Datsyuk.  The guy has a check for $30mm sitting in his bank account, so we can speculate that money is not the only factor in where he wants to play.  So instead of the Red Wings management making a full court press for him, they give him a 1/2 hr meeting and leak to the press about how they’re concerned with his “pace”, kind of dissing him if you will.  They also decide to get cheap on both term and dollars, not even trying to put together a reasonable offer close to market value that would still satisfy their salary structure by not paying him more than Zetterberg and Datsyuk.  It looks as though they didn’t even try to court him, and by trying I mean have Zetterberg call him, Lidstrom call him letting him know what it’s like to play here etc.  nothing, not even close to the courtship of Dekeyser.  All the while having a big need for a legitimate top 6 forward with size and some grit to his game.  It is disappointing not so much that they’re going to lose out on signing him, but that they’re not even trying.  Now I am basing this all on the local beat writers reports, and while I am not a fan of theirs it seems in this case their reporting has been spot on.  And all the reports from them have said that they met with him, but couldn’t give him more than 2yrs and could not approach $5mm.  I just sense that they were never serious about it and that they went through the effort out of obligation and to show the fans that they were trying to do something.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 04:32 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

I know I’m out of breath.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 05:17 PM ET

This is why it’s called Hockeytown, it’s July and there isn’t any ice this side of St. Ignace, but rumors about a free agent are sending people over the waterfalls.

Spending big money can win, probably more often it does not.  Rangers have numerous examples in recent history of crippling, ball busting long term deals.  Flyers, anyone? Even Minnesota has to start backing away from the edge.  Detroit Tigers ?  Talk about some pissed off fans, see any Tiger blog.

Disappointed we won’t get Vinny but 2019 is a long way off.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/02/13 at 04:33 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.