Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Things are still weird here

Just checking in from Traverse City...I'm about to head back to the hotel to post what the MSM'ers are currently writing about Cleary, Alfredsson and the first day of the Red Wings' training camp, and all I can tell you is that even here, even having listend to Ken Holland, Babcock and Cleary speak about the decision...

The media seem as genuinely, "WTF just happened?" baffled by the strange twists and turns in events as anyone else is right now. I sure as *#$%@& don't know how Ken Holland's going to make the cap math or roster math work, despite his insistence that it's what he's paid to do, and my answer to you as to why the Wings would bring back the consummate "glue guy" who Holland and Babcock insist has better knees than we have been led to believe at the expense of playing time for Joakim Andersson, Gustav Nyquist and especially Tomas Tatar may yield an, "Um, uh..."

The situation's utterly baffling, and I don't understand it, either. The only good news I have for you is that you and I are not alone here in being confused as all *#$%@& get out.

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Comments

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George; I couldn’t have stated it better.

WTF is Holland doing? I mean, in no way can any one convince me this signing is a positive. Only 1 year? Yeah, well, that’s one too many for Cleary, his degenerative knees and depreciating game. This will directly affect Tatar’s ability to find his game when he, at best, will go in and out of the line-up.

Not only will it hinder our prospects’ development, it just doesn’t make sense given the numbers we already had. We now need to rid ourselves of 3 players and 2.8 or so million to be cap-compliant. Who will KH move and, quite frankly, how?

Posted by ZandPasha11 on 09/12/13 at 04:12 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

I am in Full agreement with George and “ZandPasha” on this.  Any negative impact on the young future players or trades (depending who gets traded) to make room for Cleary will not make this Wings Fan very happy.  Strange and puzzling move , in my opinion.

Somewhere I read Bert would be the odd man out for Cleary, rumours of course, but it still does worry me who leaves for the Newfie with no knees. And Cleary better not be in the top 6!!!

Why not throw a few bucks at Brunner instead of Cleary??

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 09/12/13 at 04:25 PM ET

Crater's avatar

Maybe Cleary used the summer to get the whole knee injection thing of platelet rich plasma. I know a guy who did that after having blown pretty much everything in his knee out. It actually did do wonders for him, he used to walk in pain, now he can actually run a few miles. We can hope Danny boy did the same thing, right?

Posted by Crater from SoCal on 09/12/13 at 04:30 PM ET

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Holland must be suffering from dementia. cleary is a flat out joke at this point in his career. 15 points in 48 games, +/- -6 while getting top 6 minutes??? LMFAO…yeah get me some more of that. If he even considers trading Tatar to get under the cap, or if cleary takes minutes away from Nyquist and Tatar, It’s gonna be hard for me to root for this team until holland leaves.

Posted by cotts1 on 09/12/13 at 04:33 PM ET

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Somewhere I read Bert would be the odd man out for Cleary, rumours of course, but it still does worry me who leaves for the Newfie with no knees. And Cleary better not be in the top 6!!!

Get real. Where else would Babs use him? Not only will he be used in the top 6 regularly, he’ll probably be on the 1st PP unit.

Towards the end of last season I said that people shouldn’t just assume that Tatar would be on the roster once the upcoming season began and that Cleary would be resigned. I would have never guessed that Tatar’s absence would be a result of Clear’s resigning, however.

Posted by godblender on 09/12/13 at 04:51 PM ET

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Not only will he be used in the top 6 regularly, he’ll probably be on the 1st PP unit.

Alfie’s gotta be pissed.  First Cleary takes his number and you know it’s only a matter of time before he take’s Alfie’s PP minutes.

Posted by Garth on 09/12/13 at 05:00 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

“Confused” is a fair way to feel about it—I feel that way as well. But George, don’t forget that we still have camp to go through. That means injury possibilities (which we’re already likely seeing with Darren Helm). That means guys performing below expectation. That means other teams seeing what they have and what they don’t have, and possible (though perhaps seemingly improbable) trade possibilities crop up.

And most importantly, the Wings do have some players that are A) not as good as Dan Cleary and are B) on contracts that are pretty amenable to being bought out, especially given that it’s almost a 100% certainty that the cap ceiling will increase significantly next season:
- Tootoo’s cap hit on a buyout is $567k
- Samuelsson’s is $1 million
- Emmerton might not be as attractive on a buyout, but could be sent down to save $533k on the cap
- Eaves’s cap hit could be reduced to $275k if he were sent down, but I have to think that at $1.2 million you could find a trading partner in a pinch

The main point here is that Dan Cleary is an improvement over any one of those players. To the decision is not necessarily Cleary vs. Tatar, or Cleary vs. Nyquist. Let’s see what happens. If Cleary takes a spot from Tatar or Nyquist, I will be very upset.

Let’s also think about some complexities… what if the Wings could turn a player like Tatar into a young D prospect that projects at a similar level to Tatar? That changes things quite a bit. The Wings could use a higher-end D prospect now that Smith has graduated (really you can always use that type of player). And Tatar, while he had a great playoff for the Griffs, has Jarnkrok, Jurco, Pulkkinen, and Sheahan at his heels (not to mention guys that appear to be developing ahead of original expectations like Martin Frk).

And lastly. If Cleary doesn’t earn his spot… that contract is very buyout, trade, and waiver-friendly.

I understand the fear that Nyquist in particular could be pushed off despite the fact he sure as hell looks like he deserves to be a full-timer. But can we at least wait to freak out until it really happens?

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/12/13 at 05:03 PM ET

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This reeks of “we’re about to trade a prospect and a big contract.”  Probably Tatar, hopefully Sammy.

Posted by captaineclectic on 09/12/13 at 05:10 PM ET

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I don’t understand how you guys can’t understand.

Honestly, this isn’t even a particularly difficult cap situation to deal with.  It takes like 5 minutes at capgeek to work it through.

Waive Emmerton, waive/trade Eaves, trade Tootoo, place Helm on IR.

At that time Detroit would have around 3 mil in cap space.

Cleary comes in at 1.75, leaving 1.25 free.

Will Helm be ready in one month?  Two?  Ever?  Well, when he is Detroit will have to make a move, assuming of course that every other player on the roster is healthy.

Which, come on.  Sammy, Bert, Franzen, Pav, Z, a 40 year old Alfredsson, and Cleary himself will all remain healthy until Helm is ready to go?  Come on.  That’s got a 0% chance of happening.

All Detroit has to do is get a mil or so under the cap to facilitate roster callups and they are fine.  Losing Emmerton, Eaves and Tootoo will have no impact on the team… at least, no negative impact.  Not compared to keeping Cleary.

That’s how Holland can do it.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/12/13 at 05:11 PM ET

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The main point here is that Dan Cleary is an improvement over any one of those players.

Dan Cleary is absolutely not an upgrade over Eaves.
Emmerton is the fourth line centre if Helm isn’t healthy, so Dan Cleary is absolutely not an upgrade over Emmerton, unless he somehow learned to be a centre in the summer.

Is he an upgrade over Tootoo or Sammy?  Sure, but so what?  He’s better than the guy who sat on the bench for the playoffs and the guy that would’ve been bought out if he was healthy?  He’s an upgrade over two guys who have no business being on the roster in the first place?  Wow.  Fantastic.  So it’s worth going over the salary cap and the roster limit to have three #13/14 forwards?

Genius.

If Cleary doesn’t earn his spot… that contract is very buyout, trade, and waiver-friendly.

I can’t believe I spent time crafting a response before I got down to this amazingly delusional tidbit.

One team.  One single team in the NHL other than Detroit was willing to give Cleary a PTO, which means they were willing to guarantee him absolutely nothing while keeping an option open if, by some miracle, he outplayed their prospects.

One team.

Not a single other team was even willing to give him that.

And you think he’s tradeable?

Posted by Garth on 09/12/13 at 05:19 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Emmerton is the fourth line centre if Helm isn’t healthy, so Dan Cleary is absolutely not an upgrade over Emmerton, unless he somehow learned to be a centre in the summer.

Emmerton is a possession black hole and if need be, I’d rather put Miller on 4th line center duties and then just deal with lost faceoffs.  Heck, I’m not completely against sending a higher center out just to take faceoffs and then changing immediately (especially if the fourth line continues to get a bunch of offensive zone draws like Emmerton did last year).

Of course, this really has nothing to do with Cleary. I felt this way before today happened.  I’d rather have no center playing the fourth line than one who is worse than replacement level.

One team.  One single team in the NHL other than Detroit was willing to give Cleary a PTO, which means they were willing to guarantee him absolutely nothing while keeping an option open if, by some miracle, he outplayed their prospects.

Do you suddenly believe that the three year deal which was lined up never existed? Paul Holmgren would love it if you did.  I don’t believe that’s the case.  I’m also willing to believe that Cleary had three interested teams, then whittled it down to two, then chose Philly because their offer was the best.

I ALSO believe that lots of teams would have signed Cleary to a one-year $1.75M contract had he been willing to sign that.  It took him until mid-September to accept that deal and he only accepted it with the Wings.

So yes, I do think Cleary is tradeable, just like he was tradeable at last year’s deadline when the Bruins allegedly asked about acquiring him.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/12/13 at 05:27 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

Get real. Where else would Babs use him? Not only will he be used in the top 6 regularly, he’ll probably be on the 1st PP unit.

Funny I agree with you but I think it would be a very bad move.  Cleary is not Top 6 and not a PP player.  But Babs has a boner for Cleary, it appears.  No one in the NHL seemed to think the same way as Babs/Holland.  There are some really dumb ass GMs in the NHL and no one bit on signing Cleary but Holmgren was interested which means nothing.  Probably thought he was a Goalie, LOL

Will see which player gets the axe to fit Cleary in I guess.  Then I will decide whether this is a really weird signing or not.

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 09/12/13 at 05:34 PM ET

DocF's avatar

There must be more to the Cleary signing than meets the eye.  I have been skeptical about Helm being able to return to play and recent events tend to support my view. 

Samuelsson’s injury is a type that just not go away.  These things keep coming back to haunt the victim.  Look at Joey Kocur who was forced to retire account a similar injury.

It seems to me that Holland/Babcock know something they are not discussing at this time.  We will see what we will see.

Posted by DocF from Now: Lynn Haven, FL; was Reidsville, NC on 09/12/13 at 05:35 PM ET

Rumbear's avatar

you and I are not alone here in being confused as all *#$%@& get out.

Yeah, but you’re the one making the big $$ G.  wink

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/12/13 at 05:11 PM ET

What he said. This is Hockeyball, not rocket science.

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, for the 23rd postseason.... on 09/12/13 at 05:42 PM ET

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Exactly, Rumbear, George is there and failed to ask the questions ...

GM: Hey Ken, you got a real good push from the bottom going on ...

KH: No, George, the bottom actually sucks; that’s why I had to sign Dan Freakin’ Cleary.

Instead of complaining on this thread, George should have asked ...

Hey, Ken, knowing you still wanted to work things out with Cleary, why didn’t you buy out Bertuzzi this summer?
Hey, Ken, why didn’t you try and buy out Sammy this summer?
Hey, Ken, what’s Tomas Tatar’s future with this franchise?
Hey, Ken, do you wish you would have bought out Tootoo this summer?
Hey, Ken, why didn’t you trade Fil’s rights to Tampa at the draft like you said you were going to?
Hey, Ken, what’s it going to take to give Patrick Eaves a chance to succeed?

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/12/13 at 07:10 PM ET

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BTW Nate, it’s not that simple: Sammy CANNOT be bought out.  The window closed about two months ago.  If he gets waived, there’s only 100k in cap relief.  Get over it.  He is on the team.  That is why signing Cleary makes absolutely zero sense.

I personally think Tootoo gets traded for a 7th rounder to a team like the Panthers, but that only puts KH into the same hole he was in 24 hours ago: too many players, not enough cap space.  You can’t clear Helm’s cap space until after the season begins.  That’s why Cleary had to be on a PTO with the Flyers (Pronger situation).  The Wings must clear Helm’s $2M or whatever it is for at least one day as well (Gus to GR, but what else?).

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/12/13 at 07:18 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Oh *#$%@& off. You go up to Ken Holland in press scrum and ask him how it’s going to work out and get the cold shoulder. I did *#$%@& ask. He didn’t give me shit. I will continue asking when able.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 09/12/13 at 07:21 PM ET

shanetx's avatar

One team.  One single team in the NHL other than Detroit was willing to give Cleary a PTO, which means they were willing to guarantee him absolutely nothing while keeping an option open if, by some miracle, he outplayed their prospects.

One team.

I understand you’re upset about this because you’ve been saying the Wings weren’t interested in Cleary back about as often as you could and desperately hoped it was true (I felt that way too, mind you), but you’re leaving out a few things intentionally.  Cleary was pretty public about not going to camp on a PTO and isn’t the kind’ve guy that is attractive to a bubble team in September.  Mid-december when the Stars, just to name a team I’m familiar with, lose Ray Whitney for two weeks to an injury and don’t want to fall out of sixth place in the west, a guy like Cleary has a lot more value.  That deserty midpoint of the season when teams start to think they’ve got a chance to make the playoffs is when Cleary will have some value as a trade chip.

Posted by shanetx from Floydada, Texas on 09/12/13 at 07:33 PM ET

shanetx's avatar

Oh *#$%@& off. You go up to Ken Holland in press scrum and ask him how it’s going to work out and get the cold shoulder. I did *#$%@& ask. He didn’t give me shit. I will continue asking when able.

Don’t be so upset, man.  They know how to do Mike Babcock and Ken Holland’s jobs better than they do.  Of course they can offer you some equally terrible pointers.

Posted by shanetx from Floydada, Texas on 09/12/13 at 07:34 PM ET

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The point is, for all the complaining about the MSM not asking the tough questions on this blog, neither did you.  You chose to hide on your blog— “I don’t know what the (bleep) he’s going to do”—instead of asking the tough questions.  You fit in real well there, apparently.  Congrats.

You have been yelling about buying out Sammy all summer, saying he was faking injury, etc.  If KH would have bought out Sammy and then signed Cleary, OK, fine, sign him, but he didn’t.  He didn’t even TRY to buy out Sammy.  Why?  We’ll never know b/c the question won’t be asked.

These questions NEED to be asked.  Not necessarily ALL by you, but by someone.  Since you are now considered to be among the Red Wings media, you deserve some criticism too.  Today was the day to ask the tough questions.  Everyone failed, including you. 

But feel free to keep complaining about not having enough donations from the people that sent you there to ask the right questions to buy you a tablet.

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/12/13 at 07:50 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

I was the one who asked him. I was the one who got brushed off. I will ask him again. I will ask him again. I will ask him again.

I didn’t hide behind my blog. I was the only one who asked him what the hell he was going to do.

It’s not one day makes everything. And quite frankly, given the way you treat other readers, never mind me, I wonder what the *#$%@& you do here other than troll to get your *#$%@& jollies off.

You want to come up here and do sixteen hour days for two weeks? You’d better believe I want to know and you’d better believe I’m going to ask him again. But the hardest damn part of this job is being able to ask the question and finding out that there are some things that people won’t answer. It’s *#$%@& infuriating, and that’s why I’m even daring to gratify your horseshit with a response.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 09/12/13 at 08:22 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/12/13 at 07:50 PM ET

george may have his quirks and traits that can get annoying, but you should probly back down off your disdain a little. he works hard to provide the content that isn’t good enough for you, yet you continue to come back to read.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 09/12/13 at 08:22 PM ET

relax. breathe. remember all that preaching about respect and civility? right now you seem to be the one with all the angst stoking the fire about now. don’t get all side-tracked with the side-show. do what you do.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 09/12/13 at 08:49 PM ET

calquake's avatar

Easier said than done when you’ve got some a-hole questioning everything you do.  George owes nothing to anyone.  If y’all don’t like his blog don’t read it or start your own.

Posted by calquake on 09/12/13 at 09:12 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

We could either stop feeding the troll or we could kick him out of the garden.

Both options are acceptable to me. I think George does a good job with coverage and I don’t particularly want any more comments sections turning into discussions about one jerkoff who complains about how awful something that he can’t give up is.

Just my two cents.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/12/13 at 09:16 PM ET

calquake's avatar

Just my two cents.

Put that together with my two cents and we could buy a stamp… in 1912. cheese

Posted by calquake on 09/12/13 at 09:22 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

We could either stop feeding the troll

the easiest solutions are the ones I always forget

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 09/12/13 at 09:24 PM ET

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He is on the team.  That is why signing Cleary makes absolutely zero sense.

Helm’s going to miss be one month, maybe more, and possibly forever.

Emmerton played 10 minutes a night.
Eaves played 10:30 a night.
Tootoo couldn’t get on the ice.
Sammy has a significant injury risk.
As does Bert.
As does Z.
As does Pavel,
Hell, Weiss isn’t exactly Cal Ripken.

There are a) tons of upgrade possibilities and b) tons of replacement opportunities.

And this sets aside the non-zero probability that Tatar or Nyqvist or Miller or Andersson or someone else on the roster might be fully healthy but still suck next year for all sorts of reasons.

Look, I’m no big fan of Cleary’s… but for 1 year, at 1.75?  There’s a lot there to like.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/13/13 at 05:54 AM ET

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Easier said than done when you’ve got some a-hole questioning everything you do.

There’s a certain level of irony here that’s incredibly interesting.

For instance, to what degree does George think he gets brushed off by Ken Holland in a scrum for precisely the same reason quoted above?

I mean, some guy aggressively questions George about how he is doing his job and George flips out and overreacts (lets set aside the ‘no meanies’ policy of his for a moment), yet is himself ‘infuriated’ when Ken Holland merely chooses not to answer a similar question asked in most likely a not terribly dissimilar fashion, eg ” I was the only one who asked him what the hell he was going to do.”

Ah well.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/13/13 at 06:07 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Dan Cleary is absolutely not an upgrade over Eaves.

Care to explain? Pretty much any stat you want to point at, Cleary is more effective. And despite the tendency you have of immediately thinking Holland and Babcock are making bad decisions (despite the mountain of wins and Stanley Cup they’ve put together since 2005), it says something that Cleary has been judged immensely valuable and worthy of ice time by this club, while Eaves has pretty handily lost out on the last full-time job for a grinder to Drew Miller, who has been much more consistent in every phase of the game than Eaves since they’ve been Wings.

Emmerton is the fourth line centre if Helm isn’t healthy, so Dan Cleary is absolutely not an upgrade over Emmerton, unless he somehow learned to be a centre in the summer.

That’s true in a vacuum that ignores the rest of the roster. Best intentions may have Pav, Weiss, Andersson, and Helm as your ideal centers (specifically so you can play Pav and Z together). But that ignores the fact that Z and Franzen are natural centers that can be used in a pinch, and even Abdelkader was always considered a checking center until he ran into Draper and Helm taking that spot away from him.

Also, you are completely ignoring the possibility that Emmerton could be sent down with no takers—it is not a foregone conclusion that assigning him to the AHL means another NHL team snags him. In baseball terms, he’s that AAAA player that is a nice guy to have on the expanded roster to help you cope with injuries, but doesn’t justify being active most of the time.

Is he an upgrade over Tootoo or Sammy?  Sure, but so what?  He’s better than the guy who sat on the bench for the playoffs and the guy that would’ve been bought out if he was healthy?  He’s an upgrade over two guys who have no business being on the roster in the first place?  Wow.  Fantastic.  So it’s worth going over the salary cap and the roster limit to have three #13/14 forwards?

So what? You’ve improved your forward depth with this move. Given that all of Tootoo’s, Sammy’s, and Cleary’s contracts are relatively small and buyout-friendly, this is good depth to have. Unless you’re worried about Mr. I’s checking account, there’s not much to be concerned about here regarding the salary cap.

I can’t believe I spent time crafting a response before I got down to this amazingly delusional tidbit.

One team.  One single team in the NHL other than Detroit was willing to give Cleary a PTO, which means they were willing to guarantee him absolutely nothing while keeping an option open if, by some miracle, he outplayed their prospects.

One team.

Not a single other team was even willing to give him that.

And you think he’s tradeable?

Posted by Garth on 09/12/13 at 05:19 PM ET

First of all, why do you have drop to name-calling? I know it’s like some rite of passage when commenting on the internet, but can we just talk about hockey, or do you have to treat people like shit?

Second of all, there you go making assumptions again. How do you know only ONE team was willing to offer him a PTO? Even if we just look at the Philly situation, we had reports that ranged from him having a PTO to him having a 3-year contract. Outside of Philly, we had reports that Dallas and Florida had significant interest in signing him to a contract, not just a PTO.

You are choosing a technically true narrative that fits your worst-case-scenario assumptions, and ignoring all the other possibilities that were at the very least, legitimate enough that they were reported on. And spare me that the reports aren’t trustworthy—if you can trust the reports that frame it as only the Flyers offered him a PTO and nobody else wanted the guy, you can’t dismiss the other reports from the same group of hockey reporters.

Thirdly, you cherry picked the part about the contract being trade-friendly, and ignored the parts about it being buyout- and waiver-friendly, as well. You also inferred that I was making an argument that I never made. My argument was that the contract itself is inherently movable (by any available method) because it is 1 year and a relatively low salary.

Dan Cleary plus his contract may not be trade-able at this moment, but as training camps wind down, the regular season nears, teams deal with injuries sustained during camp and find where their holes are, that could easily change.

And in particular, with the likelihood that Helm will start the year on LTIR increasing every day, the need to make the hard decision here will probably be deferred to a point at least a few weeks into the season where worst-case scenario, you get some value out of Cleary for a few weeks, then revisit this hard decision again. But if you get a few weeks into the year, you also then have the possibility of other injuries cropping up in the Wings’ forward corps, and the possibility of injuries cropping up all over the league, meaning there could be a few teams in need of a cheap, versatile, veteran forward in a pinch.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/13/13 at 09:28 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

BTW Nate, it’s not that simple: Sammy CANNOT be bought out.  The window closed about two months ago.  If he gets waived, there’s only 100k in cap relief.  Get over it.  He is on the team.  That is why signing Cleary makes absolutely zero sense.

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/12/13 at 07:18 PM ET

Sammy cannot be bought out with the remaining compliance buyout (whereby his entire dollar amount would’ve come off the cap). But he can be bought out with an ordinary buyout, which still frees up $2 million in cap space.

Truth!

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/13/13 at 09:32 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Posted by jkm2011 on 09/12/13 at 07:10 PM ET

Come on man, that shit is uncalled for. For a couple years now, George has provided more insight on this team at camp than any of the beat writers that have double the access he has.

Everyone that doesn’t live under a rock knows how Hahn and these guys control the media. Pestering with questions like that is a surefire way for George to get screwed out of being able to provide any insight on this team ever again, all the while never getting real answers to the questions anyways.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/13/13 at 09:34 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

And this sets aside the non-zero probability that Tatar or Nyqvist or Miller or Andersson or someone else on the roster might be fully healthy but still suck next year for all sorts of reasons.

Look, I’m no big fan of Cleary’s… but for 1 year, at 1.75?  There’s a lot there to like.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/13/13 at 05:54 AM ET

Wait wait wait… are you suggesting that a prospect might not pan out to be the next Mario Lemieux? Because having read these comments sections the last few days, I thought FOR SURE that Tatar was the next Lemieux and Nyquist was the next Great One, and Dan Cleary was standing in the way of both guys having 40 goal seasons.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/13/13 at 09:39 AM ET

SnLO's avatar

Posted by SnLO from the sub-great white north on 09/12/13 at 08:49 PM ET

George, re-reading this comment, I think I come across as a little harsh towards you in my address to the troll. I think it could read a lot worse than the intent of the message and appear as more piling-on.

After a few ginger ale’s, sometimes the thought does not always translate so clear into written form. If you perceived my comment to be a dig at you, I apologize. I recognize that you work hard, and feel you do a good job; if that were not the case I would not keep coming back to read your missives. Thanks for what you do.
.

Posted by SnLO from the sub great-white north on 09/13/13 at 10:05 AM ET

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Wait wait wait… are you suggesting that a prospect might not pan out to be the next Mario Lemieux? Because having read these comments sections the last few days, I thought FOR SURE that Tatar was the next Lemieux and Nyquist was the next Great One, and Dan Cleary was standing in the way of both guys having 40 goal seasons.

The thing is, this is the eye-rolling debate that’s gone on here in Detroit for almost 20 years now, and I’m sure the same path will be re-tread 20 years down the line.

For whatever reason there are people who like to believe that signing a player makes another player somehow worse.  If the team signs Sammy, why, this makes Jiri Hudler worse as a hockey player.  It’s, like, Physics.  Or something.  If Dan Cleary is here, it’s like Will Smith and Charlize Theron in Hancock… proximity causes decay and death to some other player.  Maybe a few.

I have always said something along the lines of ‘If (prospect) is so great then it shouldn’t be hard at all to be out (veteran), who allegedly sucks.’  Then, if (prospect) doesn’t beat out (veteran), the team is better.

Almost to a point of unity the response is then something along the lines of ‘(Red Wings Management) is biased against (prospect), or just prospects in general.  (Prospect) was clearly better, but (Management) just didn;t play him enough.’

Which, obviously, is laughable based on what we’ve actually seen with regards to how good prospects are used.  Howard, Fil, Dekeyser, Fischer, Kronwall, Ericsson, Andersson, Helm, and on and on and on… all those guys came in and had legit roles in pretty short order with the team.

Because they were good enough to have earned them.

Guys like Tatar, or Nyqvist, or Andersson… there’s nothing to say any or all of them will even be decent NHLers, much less the kind of difference makers the team needs to start shooting vets out the airlock hatch in order to keep.  They’re all some form of a typical Detroit pick, given how rarely (read: never) Detroit picks anywhere lose to the top of any draft.

And not for nothing, but Detroit was going to have to cut one or two guys loose anyway.  It’s not like signing Cleary somehow all by itself necessitated Detroit having to waive/trade a truckload of other dudes.  One, sure. 

Ah well.  In a year or two we’ll get to read people howling because Howard is stunting Mrazek’s growth, Weiss is taking Jarkrok’s spot, and damn that Holland for not allowing those kids to play better.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/13/13 at 10:53 AM ET

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but for 1 year, at 1.75?  There’s a lot there to like.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/13/13 at 05:54 AM ET

There’s a lot to like because Holland was able to sign him for less than you expected. That’s the upside.

the downside is what everyone is wondering about. What does this mean for other players?

You have bemoaned Cleary for not being productive last season (but some how have a hard-on for Sammy who hasn’t even played in three seasons). Tartar had a better point per game average than Cleary. Extrapolate his numbers the way you like to do for Sammy and you will see that Tartar is a better deal and a better player than Cleary (and Sammy).

Detroit was going to have to cut one or two guys loose anyway
Now they have to cut another. Unless, the whole plan was to trade Cleary to Philly. The problem is, unless that guy is Sammy, that guy is gone to another team. All the time and energy that went into training is wasted.

They’re all some form of a typical Detroit pick
If by typical pick you mean someone with better potential than their actual place in the draft….then you are correct.

Which…is laughable based on what we’ve actually seen with regards to how good prospects are used.  Howard, Fil, Dekeyser, Fischer, Kronwall, Ericsson, Andersson, Helm, and on and on and on… all those guys came in and had legit roles in pretty short order with the team.

First, Dekeyser was never a red wing’s prospect.
howard spent four seasons in Grand Rapids. He’s your own legit case.
Fil joined the team as Yzerman’s replacement Though he probably could have used another season in the AHL. He was actually the forth line center when he joined the team (Maltby’s line although technically forth was more like the third).
Kronwall was eased onto the team with two 20 game runs with the wings and one full season in G.R. Who knows how his transition would have gone had Fischer not been lost.
Ericsson spent two seasons back and forth. Then played third line minutes until Staurt left.
Andersson He may not make the Wings this season. I’m not sure why you are using him as an example.
Helm was two seasons back and forth and then, forth line center.

So what is “obviously laughable” is that you think you are correct.

The thing is, this is the eye-rolling debate that’s gone on here in Detroit for almost 20 years now
I’d just like to point out since 1989 the wings have drafted the best defenseman to play the game, maybe the best NHL Russian player to date (take your pick), eight players to play over 1000 NHL games, 10 players have scored over 500 NHL points. How much can you complain when the next Lemieux like player is so rare (when the wings drafted Lids)? I’ve been a wings’ fan for that long and I don’t ever remember having this discussion with anyone.

I have always said something along the lines of ‘If (prospect) is so great then it shouldn’t be hard at all to be out (veteran), who allegedly sucks.’  Then, if (prospect) doesn’t beat out (veteran), the team is better.
I haven’t been here as long as you, but I’ve never seen you say that….ever.

Posted by howeandhowe on 09/13/13 at 04:34 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.