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The ‘Red Wings miss out on Alex Semin’ wailing and gnashing of teeth thread

Updated with actual news at 4:51 PM: Bad things happen when I go to community mental health and get stuck waiting…and bad things are probably going to happen in this thread. Those of you who have already attempted to hurl yourselves off the Red Wings’ bandwagon may very well want to speak to my psychiatrist or take some of my medication now that Alex Semin’s signed a one-year, $7 million deal with the Carolina Hurricanes.

The Free Press’s Helene St. James doesn’t believe that Ken Holland whiffed on this one, especially given the cost involved…

 

And while the Macomb Daily’s Chuck Pleiness is simply confirming the news, MLive’s Ansar Khan reports that Ken Holland and Mike Babcock weren’t swayed by the performance Semin put on while playing alongside Pavel Datsyuk Fox 2 News Headlines

• And via RedWingsFeed, Michigan Hockey’s Ryan Zuke and Ben Fleck report that Justin Abdelkader is also taking part in the camp:

On July 26, the former Michigan State Spartan and Grand Rapids Griffin served as a guest coach at the Detroit Red Wings Youth Hockey camp at Joe Louis Arena.

“For us, we’ve been given so much and we know how important role models are—especially at a young age,” Abdelkader said. “So it’s good to be here to help the kids out and hopefully be a positive influence on them.”

Abdelkader, along with former Red Wings forward Kirk Maltby, goaltending coach Jim Bedard and assistant coach Keith McKittrick are serving as instructors for the camp which runs from July 25-27.

“It’s been real good,” Abdelkader said.  “Just to see the excitement on the kids’ faces and they are all having a good time, working hard. It’s good to be back out here at the Joe.”

Players from ages 6-16 are allowed to participate in the event, but Abdelkdader said the message does not change that much between age groups.

“The big thing is to have fun, enjoy what you’re doing. Being able to come out here and play hockey, and do what you love, I think it’s really exciting. You just got to work hard and take the game as far as you can and if you keep those two things in line, everything else will take care of itself.”

And although Abdelkader is helping the players improve on their hockey skills at the camp, he also stressed the importance of academics.

“For me, academics was always a big thing.  You always have to have something to fall back on.  At a young age, you have dreams and aspire to play in the NHL, and you maybe could one day, but at the same time you have to have something to fall back on and education was always important for me.”

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Comments

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Alan's avatar

At Semin’s price tag, I’m not wailing or gnashing my teeth.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/26/12 at 05:33 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

Those of you who have already attempted to hurl yourselves off the Red Wings’ bandwagon

There is a huge, and I mean epic, difference between getting angry at your team, your team’s management or your team’s performance (on the power play, for instance) and “hurling yourself off the bandwagon.”  Those of us who dare to criticize this team, George, are still Wing fans.  And we’ve never been on a bandwagon, either.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 07/26/12 at 05:37 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Ugh, everyone’s being so passive-aggressive…

... we’re all Wings fans, albeit some a little more reactionary than others. If someone wants to “hurl themselves from the bandwagon” or be genuinely pissed off because of a perceived lack of action, so be it; however, the in-fighting amongst the fans here (and everywhere, honestly) is the most troubling aspect in all of this.

Just *#$%@& hug it out already.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 07/26/12 at 05:44 PM ET

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$7 mill not low risk.

Is a low risk when your owner is a billionaire and you have a kajillion in cap space.

There is a huge, and I mean epic, difference between getting angry at your team, your team’s management or your team’s performance (on the power play, for instance) and “hurling yourself off the bandwagon.”  Those of us who dare to criticize this team, George, are still Wing fans.  And we’ve never been on a bandwagon, either.

Amen.

Posted by Herm from the office on 07/26/12 at 05:46 PM ET

monkey's avatar

I think my pledge for H2H3 will involve something along the lines of “Samuelsson gives up a short handed opportunity” or “zero shots on goal on the power play”.

Posted by monkey from Praha, Česká republika on 07/26/12 at 05:48 PM ET

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7 mil is too high.  Also 7 mil was Carolina’s price. 

That being said we have to give Holland credit for one thing he has done extremely well ofer the last three years.  He has allowed THE DETROIT RED WINGS to turn into the Calgary Flames.  Nice job Kenny.  Don’t worry in a couple years (maybe next year) you can get a fresh start in Toronto.

Posted by Pondrocket from Howell, Mi on 07/26/12 at 05:54 PM ET

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LMAO ... Chief’s pissed ... one of these days his brain will explode and he’ll wonder why.

I can’t get pissed about what Red Wing management has or hasn’t done this summer because its not over yet.  Sure they’ve missed out on some marquee players that would look good in a winged wheel sweater, but at what cost ??

Now that we’ve “missed out” on Semin (your words not mine), we can all piss & moan until this weekend when we find out what Shane Doan is going to do.  Personally, I could give 2 shits what Doan does. He’s 35+, not a top 6 guy, his major contribution might be on the 2nd PP unit and chatterbox on the bench replacing Draper ... he’ll also justify Emmerton being used as tradebait to bring in a top 4 D-man.

I’m not mad ... i’m curious as hell to find out what tricks Holland has up his sleeve ... and i’m impatient cuz I want him to pull the trigger NOW so we can all relax and enjoy whats left of the summer.

Posted by Hockeytown Wax from West Bloomfield, Mi. on 07/26/12 at 05:56 PM ET

Alan's avatar

I can get pretty upset by what management has or hasn’t done this summer, because they haven’t really done anything this summer. I just can’t get upset by skipping over an overpriced primadonna. It’s not that we have the money to do it, it’s that he’s not worth $7M. Period.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/26/12 at 06:00 PM ET

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Ilitch just shelled out $214 million for a baseball fat dude who plays the same position as his best not-so-fat dude.

Whoever thinks money is the problem is nuts.

Posted by Herm from the office on 07/26/12 at 06:03 PM ET

Alan's avatar

Never said it was the problem, just that he’s not worth it. YMMV.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/26/12 at 06:06 PM ET

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I’m sure J.staal will be thrilled when he’s providing a lackluster effort making a mil more than him.

Posted by longtimewingsfan from mi on 07/26/12 at 06:14 PM ET

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Sorry, but this one is a total failure by management…

The 1yr deal meant that if the Wings had any issues with Semin they could have moved him at the deadline under the guise of we won’t be able to re-sign him due to our other FA’s (particularly because of Filppula, Jimmy Howard, Brunner?, White, and Smith) and gotten a low draft pick or prospect out of the “risk” at the minimum.

7M for 1 year isn’t too high for the Wings as they have 23 players signed already and 13M in cap space left. So they actually have 13.5M when you trade/send-down a minimum salary player.

That would leaves them 7M minimum (figuring they have to jettison another player—I used a worst case scenario) to acquire a top defenseman—I know it’ll be more cap space—like I said I used a worst case scenario…

And the best part is even if they hang onto him the whole season they still would have 7M to re-sign those same players next year.


The only way you don’t do this deal (if you’re Wings’ management) is if you know the CBA is going to be more than 7M less and you are working a trade for a 6M defenseman (uggh please not that Calgary cast off)...

Posted by dca from in Mich on 07/26/12 at 06:31 PM ET

awould's avatar

So Detroit missed out on Plan D while waiting around for Plan C? Great. What happened to Plan A and B again?

But hey, at least they’re still hockeytown, have the best GM in the biz and are a desired market for free agents. The phrase “cold comfort” comes to mind.

Posted by awould on 07/26/12 at 06:37 PM ET

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whatever…

Posted by PuckMucker from Detroit on 07/26/12 at 06:43 PM ET

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You are all so impatient.  Even if we go into the year with our current cast we’ll be competitive, and there’s tons of time to trade in missing pieces.  Maybe we’ll find out that some of these underused players are more valuable than the 8 minutes a game they were getting before.  You all wanted us to use some of these guys before, why not now?

Posted by neffernin on 07/26/12 at 06:44 PM ET

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in other news…

Grand Rapids Griffins signed Brennan Evans

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=3296

Posted by PuckMucker from Detroit on 07/26/12 at 06:49 PM ET

Wings_in_NYC's avatar

Why do people assume Kenny would do much of anything DURING the season? Just know that he is going to “stand pat.” This is the team. No Yandle. No Doan. No Ryan. This is it. They are going to need all the luck in the world this year. Still can’t believe he made ZERO moves with the D on this team. Signing Q wasn’t much of a move. I hope he has a better full year with the Wings than he did last year, but lets be realistic. He’s not top 4 material. Sammy’s a slight upgrade over Huds and the monster could potentially have a big upside. Other than that….what was the point of getting excited over all that $$ they had to spend on UFAs? There’s nothing left but scraps and Kenny is too afraid to trade anyone on this team. Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2012 - 2013 Red Wings! No new and improved in the slightest.

Posted by Wings_in_NYC on 07/26/12 at 06:54 PM ET

Crow's avatar

This whole free agent summer has been a complete failure. Anyone(Holland & Co.) who thinks that the wings will do fine with their current roster is in a wet dream. All you have to do is think back to how well the wings did when Lids was out with injury last season. The wings were NOT a playoff team, at that time. They are NOT a playoff team right now. Holland should have kept his word when he said he would retire when Lidstrom retired.

Posted by Crow on 07/26/12 at 06:54 PM ET

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I guess I dont understand the part where people care if the contract was a little pricey. I’ve stated before that “market value” is determined by the market, and nothing else. In my opinion red wings fans should not care if the price for a player is higher than what a better player already under contract is making. Example datsyuk is better than semin. And payed less. That should not bother people as those contracts were not signed in the same market. And fans should not expect going forward that if u pay a player as much as u pay datsyuk, that you should be getting equivalent production. Markets dictate price. That being said I’m of the belief that in this market semin at 1 year would have been worth upwards of 7.5-8 million to the red wings. The need for a top 6 is that great in my opinion.

Posted by NHLrick on 07/26/12 at 07:00 PM ET

WingsFaninCO's avatar

This whole free agent summer has been a complete failure. Anyone(Holland & Co.) who thinks that the wings will do fine with their current roster is in a wet dream

Do you have wet dreams over ANY men’s sport roster?  I mean, there’s nothing wrong with that.  I just want to confirm that you think there are some men’s sports team rosters that warrant nocturnal emissions.

Additionally, I think the Wings will do “fine” with the current roster yet my boxers are completely dry and I am wide awake.  Do I think the Wings will do great?  no, but fine? - yes.  I have faith in the youngsters.

Posted by WingsFaninCO on 07/26/12 at 07:03 PM ET

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Watch Semin go ahead and have a 30+ goal season playing for a run-and-gun, ‘no defense whatsoever outside of Cam Ward heroics’ having Hurricanes team and then hear all of the “told you so"s from every Red Wings fan that knew he was perfect for Detroit on a 1-year, overpaid by a lot deal.

That’ll be fun.

Posted by ryan on 07/26/12 at 07:03 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

$7 mill not low risk.

Is a low risk when your owner is a billionaire and you have a kajillion in cap space.

Seriously.  What is the risk?  You can’t sign that other $7 mil guy?  He doesnt snipe every time Dats feeds him?

he’s not worth $7M. Period.

Is this a bang for your buck contest?

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 07/26/12 at 07:09 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

I think my pledge for H2H3 will involve something along the lines of “Samuelsson gives up a short handed opportunity” or “zero shots on goal on the power play”.

Posted by monkey from bunting for Nash on 07/26/12 at 04:48 PM ET

I’d like to see how many short-handed opportunities William Tell gave up compared to Happy and/or White…

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 07/26/12 at 07:10 PM ET

WingsFaninCO's avatar

Is this a bang for your buck contest?

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 07/26/12 at 06:09 PM ET

Bang for your buck contest?  Sounds like something sponsored by Trojan and with Jiri Hudler as one of the judges.

Posted by WingsFaninCO on 07/26/12 at 07:11 PM ET

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@tuxedoTshirt

Great point. Way too many people are concerned with saving mike illitches money. Makes no sense to me. There’s still a boatload of cap space after u sign that deal. And u get that cap space back after the 1 year deal. Semin was worth 7mil and then some to this roster. This team is worse, not better, talent wise than last year when we got bounced in the first round. It’s not rational to expect better results from a less talented roster.

Posted by NHLrick on 07/26/12 at 07:20 PM ET

Alan's avatar

Is this a bang for your buck contest?

Does it have to be?

Prove me wrong. Or, wait and let him do the talking. This year, he won’t have Ovechkin to float around.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/26/12 at 07:23 PM ET

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I really think Holland whiffed on this one. We just have to pray that Brunner turns out to be the stud that he was in the Swiss league or this is going to be a long season. We really could’ve used the extra goals without Lidstrom on D.

Posted by WingnutBP from CA on 07/26/12 at 07:32 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

The most important item to be gleaned from the main thread above:  Justin Abdelkader is a core component of the Red Wings organ-I-zation “From Here To Eternity”.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/26/12 at 07:50 PM ET

Cal's avatar

Is this a bang for your buck contest?

They cost at least two bucks any more.  Inflation.

My guess is there at least two, perhaps three trade proposals on GM’s desks.  Calgary, which is weak up the middle, would get Fil, perhaps Gus, and/or a pick for Iginla and Boumeister. I don’t like the idea of the team getting older but it upgrades the blue line, and adds a few more goals.

I will return to say “I told you so” when it happens.

Posted by Cal on 07/26/12 at 07:51 PM ET

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We just have to pray that Brunner turns out to be the stud that he was in the Swiss league

Posted by WingnutBP from CA on 07/26/12 at 06:32 PM ET

Brunner is AHL bound.

BTW, before Hudler joined the Griffins he also was a stud in the Czech premier league which is vastly superior to the Swiss.

Posted by Alex on 07/26/12 at 08:05 PM ET

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There is a huge, and I mean epic, difference between getting angry at your team, your team’s management or your team’s performance (on the power play, for instance) and “hurling yourself off the bandwagon.”

YES!

He has allowed THE DETROIT RED WINGS to turn into the Calgary Flames.

Because they’re overpaying so many guys and giving them too many years?

Sorry, but this one is a total failure by management…

They.

Weren’t.

Interested.

No amount of fan teeth-gnashing and Dastyuk-to-Semin jerking off means that the Wings were interested in a lazy POS who wanted a raise after having his worst career year.

Posted by Garth on 07/26/12 at 08:06 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

hear all of the “told you so"s

When Carolina finishes ahead of Detroit, I will certainly be here to “told-ya-so”.

They.

Weren’t.

Interested.

You.
Are.
Just.
Guessing.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 07/26/12 at 08:14 PM ET

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Player contract amounts , within the constraints of the larger business decision, have a neutral value.  The larger goals of a franchise work in concordance with it’s mission statement(s).  A mission statement for the Tigers might be to “...win the AL Pennant.”  A goal, organizational philosophy might be “...we are a power hitting team.”  So,  the DH (Martinez) out for the season and Ilitch asks Dombrowski what players are available whom equal or even better Martinez’s performance level.  First, Tigers agree that are participants in the market for a power bat.  Second, their goals define their level of interest or commitment. Third, player contract amount is inconsequential and this is how you sign a guy at 214MM. Of course their are situations, very rare, like market distortions which can disrupt biz decision process.  In my view, 13 year, 98MM for a 47 point per year defenceman is indeed a market distortion-in the form of an “outlier.”  Despite what we’ve all heard outliers have a very specific definition which is “...at least 3 or more standard deviations from the mean.”  These outliers and market distortions make player contract amounts a leading indicator, which is adverse to the above biz process.  So when Helene St. James states that 7MM per 1 year is a high risk move, I disagree. The contract amount is certainly not a outlier.  The Wings mission is Stanley Cup contention, every year. Got it. Goal scoring has been the Wings M.O. for years and years. Got it.  Detroit’s goal scoring in this last years play-off was way down. Got it. As of today, the best available, proven goal scorer is/was Semin.  PAY HIM. Elite coaches like Bowman, Phil Jackson, Daly, find ways to weave certain players into their team design: think Federov, Rodman, Isiah and even Coach K and Durant (who said he doesn’t like playing with Lebron).  I’ll never really know, but this off-season is really looking like Olympia Entertainment, Ilitch Holdings may have a cash flow issue.  Btw, I love Mike Ilitch, he’s kept this city afloat for years, and I’ll be buying L C pizza’s every week.

Posted by beelza on 07/26/12 at 08:34 PM ET

awould's avatar

Posted by beelza on 07/26/12 at 07:34 PM ET

Who the F are you to bring logic and reason into this argument! We’re venting, goddammit.

Or, well said.

Posted by awould on 07/26/12 at 08:37 PM ET

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I’ll never really know, but this off-season is really looking like Olympia Entertainment, Ilitch Holdings may have a cash flow issue.

Thank you. 

Mr I definitely seems more interested in a World Series than a Cup and it appears that’s where he choose to spend his money this year.

Posted by milburyneedstobeslapped on 07/26/12 at 08:49 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

They.

Weren’t.

Interested.

Or better yet, They. Should. Have. Been.

In any case, I guaran-damn-tee you that Holland lurks A2Y and his ears are really starting to burn.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 07/26/12 at 08:49 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

And, you’re damn right, I’ve elected to lose it.  Now, don’t get scared. My family’s safe. The law hasn’t been called.  All is well, relatively speaking.

But if Doan signs with the Hawks or the Pens, I’m guessing the wife and kids will be seeking safety in a secure location known only to her family. Paradoxically, the local party store will immediately double their weekly order of PBR and cheddar.

On a more serious note, I’m not the least bit upset about losing Semin (and I haven’t felt like that since the free-love days of the 60s). Personally, I’d much rather see Tick Tock sign either Arnott or Knuble for $2M and let them be the Dallas Drake of 2012-2013.

Like others here, I’m far more concerned about signing (or trading for) a quality D-man. I like Kindl a lot, but I’d like to see him earn his spot at #6 instead of being granted it because he’s a better option than some career AHL guy.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 07/26/12 at 08:53 PM ET

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Party store… haven’t heard that since I left the Detroit area.

Posted by neffernin on 07/26/12 at 08:58 PM ET

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If the Wings struggle this year offensively, it will not be because we did not sign Semin.  Our offense over the years has been dependent on effective outlet passes in the defensive zone, dominant center play, and secondary scoring.  I worry about the health of Zetterberg and Datsyuk more than whether we sign another “top 6” winger.  I worry about how our current crop of defensemen will move the puck quickly and effectively out of our own end.  I believe our secondary scoring, if Babcock fields the right lineups, will be solid this year.  Assuming our centers stay healthy, we will have very strong center play.  So, the real x-factor is our D.  I don’t really see a good short or long term solution.  Suter’s contract was too long and too much for D man that is not even a top 5 player at his position.  Nashville would never have let Weber come to Detroit.  Really, the problem is that we did not, as an organization draft for defense well, other than Smith, prior to 2007, and we made no moves via trade to add young D with excellent upside.  I am not worried about our roster down the road.  We have many D in the system who have legitimate NHL potential including Sproul, Ouellette, Lashoff, Almqvist, Jensen, Backman, Marschenko, Nicastro.  At least three of these guys should be NHL players given how well they have played the last two years.  Also, we have a lot of forward depth.  I don’t see any real solutions since very few teams will trade very good, established D.  Let’s hope Smith continues on his current path.  He could be huge this year.

Posted by tcmarkou from Kalamaoo Michigan on 07/26/12 at 09:05 PM ET

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They.

Weren’t.

Interested.

No amount of fan teeth-gnashing and Dastyuk-to-Semin jerking off means that the Wings were interested in a lazy POS who wanted a raise after having his worst career year.

That was before they stopped pursuing Shane Doan because his price went too high.

In simple words for those that can’t understand: They lost out on option D because they were pursuing option C. Just like they lost out on option B because they were going after option A. Stopping pursuit of option C means they had a total management failure….

and if you still don’t get it: the Wings had money to improve their team. They needed a top 6 forward and a top pairing defenseman. They got neither and they are none left that won’t open holes elsewhere. That equals management failure…

Posted by dca from in Mich on 07/26/12 at 09:19 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.