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The Malik Report

The Wings This Week

from Ansar Khan of Mlive,

It was apparent before they went on their bye week that the Detroit Red Wings were out of serious playoff contention. Losses at home last week to Dallas and Carolina further sealed their fate.

The Red Wings are 10 points behind the New York Rangers for the final wild card spot in the Eastern Conference. And having three games in hand means little when there are five other teams in between....

Defenseman Mike Green is Detroit’s biggest trade chip due to his offensive skills, right-handed shot and ability to quarterback the power play. The New York Rangers could be interested, since Kevin Shattenkirk, their right-shooting offensive D-man, is out indefinitely, needing surgery to repair torn meniscus in his knee.

A borderline playoff team like the Rangers is unlikely to relinquish its first-round pick, which could end up being a high selection with some lottery luck. Perhaps Green could fetch a pair of second-round picks or a second and a third. Tampa Bay also had been linked to Green.

The Red Wings will look to trade a goalie, though it’s no sure thing they can move either. They had talks with Edmonton earlier in the season regarding Petr Mrazek. They might look to move Jimmy Howard instead, but with another season remaining on his contract ($5.3 million) and few teams in the goalie market (maybe the Islanders), that would be tough.

They likely are willing to move several players, including Darren Helm, but their contracts will make it difficult.

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ilovehomers's avatar

SELL SELL SELL

The time is near - we have all been waiting, some of us very impatiently for this.  Wont happen until at least after the all star break.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/22/18 at 07:48 AM ET

BladesOfSteel's avatar

So funny to hear the range of value Green has from hockey insiders.

Khan says 2 second rounders or a 2&3.

Other big name nathional insiders (I think it was Dreger) said 1st, prospect, and roster player.

I’d be happy with just a 1st. Don’t think we will get the haul Dreger says, but hoping for more than what Khan says.

Posted by BladesOfSteel on 01/22/18 at 08:19 AM ET

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Green traded for a 2nd + random prospect.

Fanboys quickly Google that prospect, just like they did on Dylan Sadowy. Oh my. One opinion says Sadowy is like a 1st rounder. Man Kenny is awesome. He just converted an early 3d into a 1st.

I hear Sadowy is doing well in the ECHL these days…

Posted by fatsavage on 01/22/18 at 08:40 AM ET

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Willing to move Helm? Curious if this is just Khan’s thinking or it’s being leaked by the organization. But he is unmovable, of course.
And the paragraph about Mrazek is just copy and paste of FS posts.

Posted by VPalmer on 01/22/18 at 08:45 AM ET

Figaro's avatar

Trade everybody?  But we’re just a long series of “winning 3 of 4s” away from being right back in play-off contention!

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 01/22/18 at 09:19 AM ET

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Perhaps Green could fetch a pair of second-round picks or a second and a third.

Yeah?

So he went from being first (or second, after Evander Kane) on the most wanted UFA rental list, but we need to prepare for a lesser return because now there is another team that has been added to the list of potential suitors.

This team that wasn’t even in the conversation for getting a D upgrade now IS in the conversation, but they won’t give up what everyone seems to think Green is worth, so therefore expectations should be lowered? Because, you know, having MORE suitors generally means the return will be worse, right?

Ugh.

It’s a month before the deadline and the Detroit media are already making excuses for Holland, assuming he won’t get the best return for Green.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 09:44 AM ET

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Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 09:44 AM ET

To be fair though, the supposed ask of 1st rounder plus a prospect plus a young roster player, that Dreger was talking about, is a bit too much.
No way KH gets that, no way any GM gets that.
So I think it’s not so much about lowering expectations, as it is about not over-hyping the expectations.

Posted by George0211 on 01/22/18 at 09:48 AM ET

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And the paragraph about Mrazek is just copy and paste of FS posts.

That doesn’t make it wrong. I know FS isn’t a fan favorite here, but he makes valid points sometimes. I agree with him and Ansar, and have voiced that often. Continuing to play Howard 9 of 10 games at this point makes zero sense.

Posted by Ilovekermit on 01/22/18 at 09:49 AM ET

Primis's avatar

SELL SELL SELL

The time is near - we have all been waiting, some of us very impatiently for this.  Wont happen until at least after the all star break.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/22/18 at 07:48 AM ET

Everyone but Mantha and Larkin needs to be in play.

Posted by Primis on 01/22/18 at 10:03 AM ET

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...but their contracts will make it difficult.

Lather, rinse, repeat for most of the roster.

At this point there should be a steady goalie rotation unless one guy is playing out of his mind. All other potential movable assets should be propped up (PP time, zone starts, etc) in a manner that makes them look as valuable as possible.

Posted by Steve1306 on 01/22/18 at 10:11 AM ET

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Trade Howard while you can. Take back an ugly, expiring contract if needed (ie Halak, Kulemin)

Ride Mrazek down the stretch. Coreau as back-up.

If Mrazek stinks, let him walk this summer. Go out and sign a UFA like Hutton, Khudobin, Dell, etc…

If Mrazek plays OK, then qualify him for one more year at $4M+. So next year you have Mrazek-Coreau. Or you still sign one of these UFAs and you have a 1A/B of Mrazek-Hutton, Mrazek-Dell, etc…

That buys you another season to see if Mrazek is your goalie of the future. If not, trade him at next year’s deadline. His value might be higher if other GMs actually get to see him play more than once a month. His value can’t be lower than it is now. Like if you qualify Mrazek and he stinks next year, and nobody wants to give up a 7th rounder at the deadline, then you still let him walk away for nothing.

This isn’t rocket surgery. Howard has more value than Mrazek right now. So exploit that. Although, maybe hang on and see if we start going on a run…

Posted by fatsavage on 01/22/18 at 10:23 AM ET

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As a part time canes fan you want no part of Khudobin. Trust me, he’s like mrazek lite. He will play one game out of his mind and the next 20 he won’t stop a beachball

Posted by Iamhaljordan on 01/22/18 at 10:34 AM ET

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As a part time canes fan you want no part of Khudobin. Trust me, he’s like mrazek lite. He will play one game out of his mind and the next 20 he won’t stop a beachball

Posted by Iamhaljordan on 01/22/18 at 10:34 AM ET

It’s been 3 years since he played for the Canes. He’s 10-2-4 this year with a 2.38 GAA and .924 SV%. Those numbers are very comparable to his teammate Rask. And was he really that bad in Carolina? His first year he outperformed Ward and Peters and finished with a 2.30 GAA and .926 SV%. Hmm, does that sound like one good game followed by 20 where he can’t stop a beachball. His 2nd year in Carolina wasn’t as solid. But he would be a fairly cheap competent 1A/B situation for a rebuilding team. He’s not going to carry a franchise, but we don’t need him too. It’s just to fill a role until the rest of our roster is ready to contend. At that point you go out and get a true #1. Like San Jose did to get Martin Jones and came within a game of winning the Cup. Or how the Leafs went out and got Anderson. Khudobin is just buying us time.

Posted by fatsavage on 01/22/18 at 10:43 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Agree on Khudobin. Cant just look at the numbers. He isn’t good, and thus why he has been a backup.

Period.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/22/18 at 10:49 AM ET

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Agree on Khudobin. Cant just look at the numbers. He isn’t good, and thus why he has been a backup.

Period.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/22/18 at 10:49 AM ET

Haha. OK. Ignore the numbers. I guess you concluded he isn’t good based on all the times you’ve watched him play?  rolleyes

He’s a UFA. He won’t command a 3-5 year committment. He won’t command a huge salary. You can probably bring him in for $2.5M x 2 years. He’s not going to win a Vezina. He’s not going to carry a franchise. But we don’t need that for the next few years. We just need a cheap, competent tandem while the rest of our young players develop.

BUT OK. Why don’t you propose a goaltending tandem for next season? I’m suggesting you trade Howard, qualify Mrazek, and have Mrazek-Khudobin split time. Hutton or Dell are other options. So what do you want? Let me guess. Dump Mrazek now for nothing. Then go with Howard and Coreau?

Posted by fatsavage on 01/22/18 at 10:55 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

We need to prepare for a lesser return because now?
It’s a month before the deadline and the Detroit media are already making excuses for Holland, assuming he won’t get the best return for Green.
Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 09:44 AM ET

Depends on what return you expected, are you buying into fanboy hype, national media guys who only look at stats?

Green is not shattenkirk, nor a top pair guy frankly, he’s a very good PP specialist but is a defensive liability in tight playoff games, if you think that should return a kings randsom, your going to be disappointed, I certainly won’t, I know what he is, I’m prepared for something in the 2 2nd rounders range, maybe slightly less.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 11:00 AM ET

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He isn’t good, and thus why he has been a backup.

He’s a good backup.

Which is more than you can say for Petr Mrazek.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 11:40 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 11:40 AM ET

True haha.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/22/18 at 11:43 AM ET

Colin's avatar

Posted by BladesOfSteel on 01/22/18 at 08:19 AM ET

Khan is no hockey insider. Take whatever he says with a grain of salt. Dreger must have been drunk when he posted his projection though. Give me a first or 2 seconds and nothing less.

Depends on what return you expected, are you buying into fanboy hype, national media guys who only look at stats?

Green is not shattenkirk, nor a top pair guy frankly, he’s a very good PP specialist but is a defensive liability in tight playoff games, if you think that should return a kings randsom, your going to be disappointed, I certainly won’t, I know what he is, I’m prepared for something in the 2 2nd rounders range, maybe slightly less.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 01/22/18 at 11:00 AM ET

National media guys don’t just look at stats and they’re way more knowledgeable than Khan.

Yes, Green isn’t Shattenkirk, but he’s a very serviceable 3-4 and a power play specialist, and a DEFENSEMAN. When we traded our last powerplay specialist in Vanek, he was a forward who had no business whatsoever playing a top-6 role and he yielded that much because of it. Green actually makes perfect sense for the Rangers because he provides relief while Shattenkirk is out and when he returns in late regular-season or playoffs Green can easily slide down the depth chart into a role better suited for his play at that time of year. Retain half the salary and make it even better for NY. I think a 1st with 2 2nds being the low end.

 

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 01/22/18 at 11:45 AM ET

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Wow. Just imagine if the Wings has traded Green to a bubble team back in November like some intense fanboys suggested and that team was now at or near the division because they were able to acclimate Green into their lineup. I bet the same fanboys would be going bonkers over that trade.
At least Detroit has an opportunity for that trade to go bust for the other team and score picks in a better place.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 01/22/18 at 12:22 PM ET

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Retain half the salary and make it even better for NY.

The most coveted defenseman on the rental market should not require retained salary.

At all.

Green is not shattenkirk, nor a top pair guy frankly

And not a single person has said that, so…thanks for pointing that out?

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 01/22/18 at 11:00 AM ET

Thanks for doubling down on the early excuse-making, Ansar.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 12:31 PM ET

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Continuing to play Howard 9 of 10 games at this point makes zero sense

Yet none of you three have even attempted to make sense of it. Maybe trying there is what you all can do.

I see a reason for it and have stated several times that KH might just want to trade Howard more then Peter. Afterall, we haven’t heard a peep from Peter about his playing time nor has he requested a trade. At the star of the season, more people would have said they wanted Peter over Jimmy and I seriously doubt that has changed.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 01/22/18 at 12:31 PM ET

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I see a reason for it and have stated several times that KH might just want to trade Howard more then Peter.

I just can’t see this Howe. With another GM, yes. But Holland is very loyal to certain players, and Howard is one of those players. Even if would make more sense to trade Howard, I don’t see Holland doing it. I don’t think he particularly cares for Petr on a personal level (I don’t know this for a fact, just a feeling I get), and will likely actively try to trade him as we get closer to the TDL. Just my opinion of course. If turn out to be wrong, I will happily admit that.

Posted by Ilovekermit on 01/22/18 at 12:36 PM ET

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Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 12:31 PM ET

Murray has been saying this for a few months now.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 01/22/18 at 12:36 PM ET

hockeyfreak13's avatar

I see a reason for it and have stated several times that KH might just want to trade Howard more then Peter.

There’s no evidence to back this up. This past year, we saw Mrazek go unprotected, the media bad-mouth him, and talks about the wings retaining part of his salary in a deal with EDM. Too much smoke there. Mrazek’s gone.

Posted by hockeyfreak13 from Grand Rapids on 01/22/18 at 12:50 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 12:31 PM ET

You expect a Shattenkirk return, recognizing that he’s not anything close to Shattenkirk’s talent? Gotcha, that’s reasonable. 

And I’ve been saying Green sucks for 4 years now, yes, a full year before HHHT had to start wiping its chin while talking about his puck moving and stats from our blueline. 

 

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 01:10 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 01/22/18 at 01:10 PM ET

Sucks is it a bit strong, let me real that back in, not a top pair guy, not a good defense first defenseman, undeniable skill and ability on the PP though.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 01:11 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

National media guys don’t just look at stats and they’re way more knowledgeable than Khan.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland’s new yacht, “Incompetence” on 01/22/18 at 11:45 AM ET

I think we’re both right.

Some select National media guys are good, moreso the Canadian bunch, certainly better than Khan, but by in large most are flyby reporters that read blogs and the fans comments (they do) to help their perspective.  The Red Wings are no longer deserving of full time press coverage outside of Detroit, these guys aren’t watching green, watching when he gets his time, zone starts, with lead without lead, etc. they read stats corsi, etc.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 01:15 PM ET

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That doesn’t make it wrong

I did not say it does. I was actually pointing out this in a positive for FS light.

Posted by VPalmer on 01/22/18 at 01:52 PM ET

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I’m prepared for something in the 2 2nd rounders range, maybe slightly less.

I am hoping for better return than we got for Smith

Posted by VPalmer on 01/22/18 at 01:53 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

They likely are willing to move several players, including Darren Helm, but their contracts will make it difficult.

Understatement of the year.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 01/22/18 at 02:14 PM ET

Colin's avatar

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 01/22/18 at 01:15 PM ET

Some, yes, but even the flybys are much better now than they were before. Score adjusted Corsi and zone starts are tracked, shot map analysis, and so on. The best of these guys look through this stuff now, and we do have Craig Custance right here in Detroit too.

Green is definitely no Shattenkirk, but I do see him getting between a 1st and 2 2nds myself. I think New York is the right team for him too.

The most coveted defenseman on the rental market should not require retained salary.

At all.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 12:31 PM ET

I would say that’s an awfully broad statement. You make the trade that works for both teams. The Rangers have only $1.4M in cap space right now, and if they wish to keep Green playing when Shats comes back, that retained salary makes perfect sense. So yeah, from a value perspective they shouldn’t require it, but from a “I want to be able to play this guy I traded my 1st round pick for” perspective Green to NYR does require it.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 01/22/18 at 02:26 PM ET

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Green for a 1st and two 2nds? Are people serious? That’s what Calgary paid to acquire Dougie Hamilton. He was 22 and under contract and under team control. Green is 32 and a UFA.

We should be thrilled if we get a 1st. I’d be content with a couple of 2nds. But I’m expecting less. My bold prediction is the return from Smith will be better than the return from Green…

Posted by fatsavage on 01/22/18 at 03:05 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland’s new yacht, “Incompetence” on 01/22/18 at 02:26 PM ET

But if your using the technology is better argument, Khan and the local yocals have the same data.  There’s a big difference in watching a player than reading stats, obviously the person watchign needs to understand what they’re watching for.


Wings could get a 1st rounder alone maybe, but not a 1st plus plus, if we do, hats off to Holland. Now could we a Green + Jenson +5th for a 1st + 2nd + a decent prospect or something like that, not saying that’s the right mix, just saying there is a formula out there to sweeten the return.

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 03:13 PM ET

Colin's avatar

Posted by fatsavage on 01/22/18 at 03:05 PM ET

See this is where your antagonistic attitude towards others on this site just makes you look stupid.

Allow me to direct you to work you may not be familiar with:

I do see him getting between a 1st and 2 2nds myself.

You see FS, “between” is a word used when a person is framing a range of values. So someone saying they see him getting between a 1st and 2 2nds, contrary to your poor comprehension, means they expect a Mike Green trade to yield a package with a value between that of a 1st round pick and that of 2 2nd round picks, not a combination of the two extremes.

I would highly recommend a cursory glance at a hooked on phonics book before you try to passive-aggressively call someone out on a blog comments section. Some of us play with a full deck smile

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 01/22/18 at 03:14 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

The most coveted defenseman on the rental market should not require retained salary.

At all.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/22/18 at 12:31 PM ET

But the bigger question is who give a flying eff? I mean seriously, its dead cap space for the 2017/2018 season, who the eff cares how much we eat? Eat is all, with a giant wooden spoon and ask for 2nds if it increases the return.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 03:15 PM ET

Colin's avatar

But if your using the technology is better argument, Khan and the local yocals have the same data. There’s a big difference in watching a player than reading stats, obviously the person watching needs to understand what they’re watching for.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 01/22/18 at 03:13 PM ET

You hit the nail on the head at the end there. Our beat writers are jokes, I have seen numerous hilariously wrong gaffes from each of Khan and HSJ. By and large, they don’t know what they are watching for. Their knowledge of hockey is well below what I would estimate the members of this blog possess.

While they may have access to the same data, I would challenge you to find any analysis of advanced stats in a Khan or HSJ article. Even if they could find sites like Corsica Hockey, I doubt they would know what to do with the wealth of information there.

They’re not hockey people, they were never hockey people, so it doesn’t matter what resources they have.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 01/22/18 at 03:21 PM ET

Colin's avatar

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 01/22/18 at 03:15 PM ET

Exactly, and in the case of Green to NYR, it’s necessary. As I explained, New York doesn’t have the cap space to take on all of Green’s salary (even prorated) AND have him play when Shats returns.

Chances are with many contenders interested in Green either retaining salary or taking back a bad contract (no thanks, we have too many as it is) is going to be part of the deal.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 01/22/18 at 03:24 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland’s new yacht, “Incompetence” on 01/22/18 at 03:21 PM ET

Khan is not HSJ, that’s an unfair comparison. 

Outside of that, again I think we agree. There’s some national media guys that know their stuff,  but also many who are just talking heads that are fed info too. Consider that there are what 600 players in the league, plus current prospects, draft boards, and many of all of the above on teams that are worth watching and discussing that readers on the national footprint care about, I just don’t think the national media as a whole is watching Mike Green like we do, watching many of his routine passes go into skates, or get forechecked into turnovers, or plowed into the endboards, vs.  someone who is paid to watch him daily, and cover the team.  They may be overall hockey smarter never the less.

I believe I know hockey more than my cousin in Chicago who has never played, I know I do, but he’s sure as hell going to know more about their roster than I do, especially in the West. If I took the time to study them, I’m confident I would be able to give a better assessment. Seabrook for example, if he was bought out, and the wings were talking about picking him up, could I really comment on that? 

I’ve also said many a times that a beat writer is always gonna lean towards sugar than sour with the hometown so they don’t get shut out, and they’re writing for casual fans, not us junkies, so I factor that bias into anything I read out of them.

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from YzerHolland2.0's pixie dust fueled bandwagon on 01/22/18 at 03:54 PM ET

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Khan is not HSJ, that’s an unfair comparison.

Yes, it is. Very unfair to Khan. I actually enjoy most of his articles, and I do think he has some good insights. HSJ…well. As I said, it’s unfair to Khan to lump him in with her.

Posted by Ilovekermit on 01/22/18 at 04:02 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.