Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

“The Kids Have Played Well”

from Ansar Khan of Mlive,

“Sometimes when you put kids in and they aren’t ready it turns out to be bad for the team and you start to lose your confidence as an athlete and you have to go backwards to regain that confidence,” general manager Ken Holland said. “Fortunately, the kids have played well. That’s not a concern for me.”

Said center Darren Helm: "The young guys add a big element to the team -- excitement, energy -- gets everybody going. They’re going to be important guys in the playoffs."

This is the youngest team the Red Wings have taken into the playoffs in a long time. Youth brings fresh legs and speed. That will be important against the big, physical, veteran-laden Bruins.

“All those kids just love to play hockey, they’re just having fun,” Red Wings forward Johan Franzen said. “They want the puck, they’re skating good and they’re strong on the puck.

“I think they’re ready for the playoffs. They’ve been playing great for us. It’s going to be fun to see what they can bring.”

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Comments

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These kids led the Grand Rapids Griffins to the AHL’s Calder Cup championship last year. And the injury-riddled Red Wings couldn’t have extended their playoff streak to 23 seasons without their contributions this season.

“Kids aren’t the answer.”

I will give Ken Holland credit, though. While he hasn’t completely come out and said: “When I said ‘kids aren’t the answer,’ I was completely wrong.” But he has been willing to admit what has been obvious to everyone for a while now, that the team wouldn’t have gotten to this point without those kids.

I think it’s been a learning year for not just the next wave of Red Wings, but for Ken Holland and Mike Babcock. The greatest reflection of that? Ken Holland’s statement that Mantha will have a shot to make the Wings next year out of camp.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 08:19 AM ET

Primis's avatar

“This is a man’s league”.

I think it’s been a learning year for not just the next wave of Red Wings, but for Ken Holland and Mike Babcock. The greatest reflection of that? Ken Holland’s statement that Mantha will have a shot to make the Wings next year out of camp.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 09:19 AM ET

I wish I could buy that, except kids helped the playoff push LAST year and absolutely NOTHING was learned by it.

Come July, I expect Holland will resume signing washed-up vets and we’re back to Square One again.

Posted by Primis on 04/17/14 at 08:37 AM ET

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I wish I could buy that, except kids helped the playoff push LAST year and absolutely NOTHING was learned by it.

He even tried to trade Tatar, another prospect and picks for Edler.  He only balked when Vancouver asked for a FOURTH player.  I truly hope he has learned his lesson.

The key is Legwand.  Is he going to resign him with Weiss still on the roster and unable to be bought out due to injury?  He can’t possibly do it, so I assume that he’ll compound two mistakes (signing Weiss in the first place and trading away his best center prospect) with another (signing Legwand to a 4-year deal).

Posted by jkm2011 on 04/17/14 at 08:58 AM ET

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I expect some serious changes over the summer. I think Kenny has to move bodies. Too many people on the roster. I think they like Legwand, too. And I think cutting Calle Jarnkrok and a second-rounder for 2 months’ worth of Legwand’s services ends up looking ridiculous if Legwand walks.

They’ve got too many defensemen with NHL potential, too many NHL centers, and too many guys (i.e., Mantha) knocking on the door in the next year or two. Sproul, Marchenko and Oullett are close to NHL guys (probably one more year in the AHL). Do you lose Almqvist for nothing, especially when you really do need more puck movement from the backend?

Something’s gotta give. Maybe they buy Weiss out, but that doesn’t seem like the Red Wings’ MO, especially with Chris Ilitch running the show and being more of a tightwad. I’ve heard rumors about Chris Ilitch demanding to Ken Holland a playoff appearance this year (which may have forced the Legwand deal). I also see Ilitch having a hard time shelling out the cost of a regular buyout to Weiss.

At the end of the day, if all we get out of Legwand is the final month and 10 days of the season and a six game series with Boston for Jarnkrok and a second-rounder, I’m going to freaking lose my mind. But re-signing Legwand crowds the forward corps even more. Maybe this is the year Abdelkader gets sent packing.

With all the good bodies up front and prospects on D, I can’t imagine they don’t move a package of guys to get a top-flight defenseman.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 09:15 AM ET

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I feel like every summer we expect the Wings to make some changes over the summer because we have too many players for too few sports with kids in the AHL knocking on the door.

So while I would think using some of who they deem as “extra” to gain draft picks or use multiple of them in a trade for a single player, I just see them keeping everyone, putting those who can be in the AHL in the AHL and waiting for injuries to solve things.

Posted by lancer on 04/17/14 at 09:34 AM ET

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I wish I could buy that, except kids helped the playoff push LAST year and absolutely NOTHING was learned by it.

The difference is that last year they helped the playoff push and this year they led the playoff push.

And I think cutting Calle Jarnkrok and a second-rounder for 2 months’ worth of Legwand’s services ends up looking ridiculous if Legwand walks.

There’s a huge difference between making a deadline deal out of desperation and re-signing a guy in the off-season when there are plenty of options.  Holland shouldn’t be factoring Jarnkrok or the second round into the decision about whether or not to re-sign Legwand.

Legwand was picked up to be a stable, veteran presence while all of Detroit’s NHL centres were on the shelf.  He did what he was brought in to do and in the last week has been relegated to bottom six status, which is what everyone should’ve expected when Detroit started getting people back.

They traded Jarnkrok and a second for a rental and a playoff spot.  Unless they somehow decide to buy out Weiss after a third of a year and can figure out a way to do it, there simply isn’t (or shouldn’t be) room for Legwand.  Unless Alfredsson decides to retire.

I’m going to freaking lose my mind. But re-signing Legwand crowds the forward corps even more.

Well, at least you’re a reasonable person.  If they don’t re-sign him you’re lose your mind but if they do they’re stupid?

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 09:38 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

...we got to get them to take care of the puck; sometimes they’re careless with the puck.

This sounds like Babcock’s talking straight to Tatar. Sometimes he tries to do too much on his own, although he’s been better lately about using his linemates once he’s in the offensive zone.

“Your performance isn’t always what you want it to be but your effort and your professionalism has to be, and that’s something you can control.”

And this sounds like Tatar too. I think Sheahan and Jurco have benefited greatly from playing with Tatar. In particular, Jurco seems to have picked up his physical play to match the level of tenacity that Tatar shows on every shift.

I’m really happy to see this line back together again. It could very well be the difference-maker in this series.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 04/17/14 at 09:43 AM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

They traded Jarnkrok and a second for a rental and a playoff spot.

And here we are, in the Playoffs. Which is all that really matters.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 04/17/14 at 09:51 AM ET

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Well, at least you’re a reasonable person.  If they don’t re-sign him you’re lose your mind but if they do they’re stupid?

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 10:38 AM ET

No, you misunderstood. I said that re-signing him will crowd the forward ranks and make it more evident in my opinion that a trade will/should be made. I really think they’re going to make a big move.

For the record, I actually want them to re-sign Legwand. I think he’s a decent player on the 2nd/3rd line. It makes Detroit probably the best team (at the very least, the deepest) in the league down the middle, which is what Babcock loves. I think Legwand makes the team better. There aren’t any free agent forwards this year that I’m that excited about. I think Legwand can be a very good player here in the long-run, once he truly learns the system (and/or gets moved permanently to wing).

It was my expectation that Jarnkrok and a 2nd couldn’t possibly be the bounty for a rental. I have to believe the team wants/expects to retain Legwand. If not, the team better make it at least to the conference finals. If we got six playoff games from Legwand for Jarnkrok and a 2nd, that’s absolutely unacceptable.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 09:55 AM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Sigh.

Is he going to resign him with Weiss still on the roster and unable to be bought out due to injury? 

Posted by jkm2011 on 04/17/14 at 09:58 AM ET


http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/1/26/5347278/nhl-buyouts-post-lockout-contract-warning


Can’t happen without the cap hit staying on the books, so why do people even bring it up?

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 04/17/14 at 09:55 AM ET

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  They traded Jarnkrok and a second for a rental and a playoff spot.

And here we are, in the Playoffs. Which is all that really matters.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 04/17/14 at 10:51 AM ET

If that’s acceptable to you, fine. But for me, that’s way too high a price, in the absence of a deep playoff run, to make it to the playoffs and cut that player loose. Jarnkrok will be a good NHLer. He’ll play the rest of his career, starting next season, in the NHL. That’s a very, very steep price.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 10:00 AM ET

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Jarnkrok will be a good NHLer.

Jarnkrok may never play another NHL game.

If we got six playoff games from Legwand for Jarnkrok and a 2nd, that’s absolutely unacceptable.

Again, it’s a good thing that you’re reasonable.

And here we are, in the Playoffs. Which is all that really matters.

Exactly.

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 10:08 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

I have to believe the team wants/expects to retain Legwand.

Posted by VitoLambruski

I think you’re right, Vito. And because Legwand moved his family here right after the trade, I think he wants/expects to remain with the Wings. The only question is what kind of “discount” would he be willing to take?

IMO, he hasn’t shown enough to merit anything close to the $4.5M cap hit he’s carrying right now. If he is signed, I sure hope it’s for no more than $3.0M (preferably less).

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 04/17/14 at 10:12 AM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

If that’s acceptable to you, fine. But for me, that’s way too high a price, in the absence of a deep playoff run, to make it to the playoffs and cut that player loose. Jarnkrok will be a good NHLer. He’ll play the rest of his career, starting next season, in the NHL. That’s a very, very steep price.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 11:00 AM ET

Big risk, big gain. The Wings have not played a single game yet so, who’s to say we aren’t going to have the deep Playoff run?

And, as far a cutting loose a guy that has potential, GR is chock full of them. There are many things KH has not done/done(Cleary) that really gets my goat, but making the Playoffs is not one of them.

We are in. It’s the Playoffs. Anything goes.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 04/17/14 at 10:14 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

I honestly don’t know why you even feed onto arguments one Garth starts HDing by euphamisms literally.

And I found the comments about once a coach has a player fr 4 or 5 years and they aren’t a good nhler you didn’t do your job and if its on the player they shouldn’t even be here.  And then I thought of Kindl.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 04/17/14 at 10:27 AM ET

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  If we got six playoff games from Legwand for Jarnkrok and a 2nd, that’s absolutely unacceptable.

Again, it’s a good thing that you’re reasonable.

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 11:08 AM ET

So if the price had been Mantha and the 2nd with the same result, would you be ok with that? Trading Mantha for a few playoff games? What about Mrazek?

I don’t understand how any playoff appearance justifies trading one of the team’s best prospects. It seems so clear cut in your mind. Like, there is no chance this trade wouldn’t be worth it, just for the playoffs. For me, Jarnkrok is too high a price. Maybe for you it’s Mantha or Mrazek. Or, maybe for you, there is no price too high for making a playoff appearance.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 10:35 AM ET

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I just hope Chris Illitch is not the tight wad ignoramus he is rumored to be. I could easily see him driving the Wings into the dirt like Dolla Bill Wirtz did to the hawks. Would not be happy to see the Wings go back to being the dead things, which could be a possibility.

Posted by teldar on 04/17/14 at 10:41 AM ET

Primis's avatar

The difference is that last year they helped the playoff push and this year they led the playoff push.

So what exactly is the difference between the two in proving the kids can play?  I fail to see any.

Posted by Primis on 04/17/14 at 10:42 AM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

...we got to get them to take care of the puck; sometimes they’re careless with the puck.

This sounds like Babcock’s talking straight to Tatar. Sometimes he tries to do too much on his own, although he’s been better lately about using his linemates once he’s in the offensive zone.

Yep.  Something also about Tatar __and other GR boys, or maybe just the 21,26,15 line __ is he executes a puck possession game: he want’s it, or wants to make sure the team keeps it.  Sometimes this causes him to make bad drops, but I think there are lots of benefits, too. 

Trying to remember how long ago I was watching the kids line with my wife, and watched Tatar circle back, pass back to the D, who cycled it right back to him in a better spot, and caught myself saying to the W: do you know what we just did?, to which she rightfully responded: we just passed it back to go forward.  Perfectly natural for a RW team long ago to do, but growing increasingly rare earlier this season.  Seems like the Wings have gotten much more comfortable and better at it in the last two months.  Or maybe I’ve just taken too much cold medicine.

 

Posted by MoreShoot on 04/17/14 at 10:45 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

So what exactly is the difference between the two in proving the kids can play?  I fail to see any.

The difference between helping and leading?

Dallas Drake helped the Wings win the cup in 2008, Henrik Zetterberg led them there.

See the difference?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 04/17/14 at 10:59 AM ET

SK77's avatar

If that’s acceptable to you, fine. But for me, that’s way too high a price, in the absence of a deep playoff run, to make it to the playoffs and cut that player loose. Jarnkrok will be a good NHLer. He’ll play the rest of his career, starting next season, in the NHL. That’s a very, very steep price.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 11:00 AM ET

I think the millions of dollars in additional revenue the Illitchs make from 2 to 3 home playoff games in the first round alone is worth it to them.

Posted by SK77 on 04/17/14 at 11:15 AM ET

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The greatest reflection of that? Ken Holland’s statement that Mantha will have a shot to make the Wings next year out of camp.

That is said every year.  Occasionally players like Kronwall or Ericsson or Filppula do earn time up in advance of ‘graduation’ (ie, running out of minors exemptions), but in the vast majority of cases they don’t because they aren’t good enough to be better than a veteran option.

Seriously, everybody’s applauding Glendening for succeeding.  He’s been statistically indistinguishable from Cleary, who everyone harangued as a disaster.  Jurco hasn’t impressed.  Shehean and Tatar and the rest of the kids have been ok, but they’ve done nothing to separate themselves in any way from tons of vets who could do the same stuff.

The outlier is, of course, Nyquist.  Other than him, though, it’s not like the guys who have come up have done things Weiss or Helm or Franzen or D or Z or whoever couldn’t have done, had they been healthy… and in many cases they’ve been substantially worse.

The difference is that people cut kids slack for mistakes because they are kids.  Vets don’t get the same rope, just the higher expectations.

It was my expectation that Jarnkrok and a 2nd couldn’t possibly be the bounty for a rental.

The disconnect you and I have with Wings management here is that they apparently believe the playoff streak is way more important than you and I do, enough so that they’re willing to move their 5th or 6th best forward prospect who in best case scenarios wouldn’t be on the roster for 2-3 years to get a vet who could help them immediately.

IMO, he hasn’t shown enough to merit anything close to the $4.5M cap hit he’s carrying right now. If he is signed, I sure hope it’s for no more than $3.0M (preferably less).

If it’s a 4 year deal it’ll have an AAV of 3.  3.5, 3.5, 3, 2.
If it’s a 3 year deal it’ll have an AAV of 3.5.  4, 3.5, 3.
I’m hoping for the 4 year deal without NTC/NMC’s.

 

Posted by HockeyinHD on 04/17/14 at 11:15 AM ET

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I think the millions of dollars in additional revenue the Illitchs make from 2 to 3 home playoff games in the first round alone is worth it to them.

There is that.

There’s also Jarnkrok’s position on the depth chart in Detroit at forward, and how that might interfere with his desire to ride buses as opposed to playing elsewhere, either for a NA team or not.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 04/17/14 at 11:20 AM ET

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So if the price had been Mantha and the 2nd with the same result, would you be ok with that? Trading Mantha for a few playoff games? What about Mrazek?

Neither one of those things is the same as trading a kid who was way pretty far down on the depth chart and may or may not have been planning on going back to Europe.

Don’t pretend that the organization was anywhere near as high on Jarnkrok as they are on Mantha and Mrazek.

I don’t understand how any playoff appearance justifies trading one of the team’s best prospects.

You’re hung up on this idea that Jarnkrok has proven himself to be the next Datsyuk, that he jumped to the top of the heap and was just waiting in the wings to get the call up.

As a centre in Grand Rapids he was behind Sheahan, Glendening and Ferraro, and that’s ignoring the fact that the Wings have ridiculous depth at centre already.

So what exactly is the difference between the two in proving the kids can play?

The difference is that they were complementary players last year, a year in which Datsyuk and Zetterberg missed a combined three games and this year they were the driving force. With Zetterberg not playing a single game down the stretch and Datsyuk missing most of that same run, “the kids” weren’t all simply third liners who were playing relatively easy minutes, they were the guys the team relied on to be the offensive leaders.

Fun fact: both Datsyuk and Zetterberg played more games in the 2013 shortened season than they played in the 2013-14 full season.

 

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 11:25 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Seriously, everybody’s applauding Glendening for succeeding.  He’s been statistically indistinguishable from Cleary, who everyone harangued as a disaster. 

Posted by HockeyinHD on 04/17/14 at 12:15 PM ET

You can’t seriously compare these two players using statistics alone.

While perhaps being statistically indistinguishable – and I’m not even going to bother looking up their stats – there’s no way you can watch Glendening play and not see how he improves the makeup of the Wings’ roster versus Cleary who is completely unable to have any effect on a game in his current state.

Glendening is hard on the forecheck, constantly in the face of opponents, and basically a total pain in the ass to play against. Even if he’s not potting goals and assists, he and his line mates are doing the yeoman’s sort of work you want to see your third and fourth line do.

If the Wings had to play against Glendening he’s the sort of guy we’d all curse on a regular basis for being a shit.

Cleary just isn’t hard to play against these days. There’s no physical or annoyance factor to him that the Wings can really use to round their team out. It’s been years since an opposition player kept their head up because Cleary was on the ice and they’re worried he’s going to nail them.

Posted by SK77 on 04/17/14 at 11:38 AM ET

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You’re hung up on this idea that Jarnkrok has proven himself to be the next Datsyuk, that he jumped to the top of the heap and was just waiting in the wings to get the call up.

As a centre in Grand Rapids he was behind Sheahan, Glendening and Ferraro, and that’s ignoring the fact that the Wings have ridiculous depth at centre already.

Come on, Garth. Gimme a break. I didn’t say he was the next Datsyuk or that he was even proven. What I believe is this: he is the best center prospect in the organization, above the three guys you mentioned. The team believed Sheahan (because of age and North American/AHL experience as well as weight) was more ready for the NHL than Jarnkrok. That can be said about Glendening (who plays a simple game and has limited upside, especially on offense) and Ferraro, who will be gone after this year. Jarnkrok has a half season’s worth of North American/AHL experience. Being lower on the NHL pecking order at a point in time doesn’t make you a lesser prospect. Don’t try to tell me Glendening is or will be a better player.

In Grand Rapids, he was playing 1st/2nd line center with a clear understanding he was or was being groomed as the #1 center. The Wings maybe got a bit scared of losing him for nothing (if there was any truth to the idea that he would leave North America if he didn’t play in the NHL soon). That’s because they weren’t willing to play him. It’s my belief that the main consideration why he didn’t play was his weight. I think the experience (or lack thereof) was actually the secondary consideration in why the Wings wouldn’t promote him.

Your distinction between Jarnkrok and Mantha/Mrazek isn’t as great as you’d think. Jarnkrok was the team’s #1 prospect as of the preseason. Mrazek, Mantha and Jurco had exceptional showings through February and Jarnkrok started slow but was progressing (a la Jurco last year) by the start of January 2014. Don’t think Mantha/Mrazek/Jurco are so much beyond where Jarnkrok is or was when he was traded. You discount Jarnkrok as if the team gave up on him or wasn’t that big on him. That’s a rationalization to support your belief that the price of Jarnkrok to make the playoffs is worth it. But you really ought to reconsider that. Let’s chat after next season and again three seasons from now.

The disconnect you and I have with Wings management here is that they apparently believe the playoff streak is way more important than you and I do, enough so that they’re willing to move their 5th or 6th best forward prospect who in best case scenarios wouldn’t be on the roster for 2-3 years to get a vet who could help them immediately.

And that’s what’s unfortunate. Again, the rumors I’ve heard place the desire to continue the playoff streak at least somewhat on Chris Ilitch’s shoulders. It’s very scary to think, if this is true, that we may now have ownership strongly influencing team management decisions. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have Ken Holland and his team making decisions they feel are overall in the team’s best interest. What I don’t care for is to think that our new ownership will now be dictating things. That’s the quickest way for a GM’s plans to unravel.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 11:44 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Seriously, everybody’s applauding Glendening for succeeding.  He’s been statistically indistinguishable from Cleary, who everyone harangued as a disaster.  Jurco hasn’t impressed.  Shehean and Tatar and the rest of the kids have been ok, but they’ve done nothing to separate themselves in any way from tons of vets who could do the same stuff.

What’s the expected AAV cost of three veteran players who combined play heavy 2nd-unit PP duties, kill penatlies, and put up a combined 70 points (29 goals)

That’s roughly the expectations set on Todd Bertuzzi, Mikael Samuelsson, and Dan Cleary, right?

That’s $6.825M in cap space for three veterans who were supposed to provide roughly the same output.

Heck, be nice and say they were supposed to provide more.  Let’s round all the way down to $5.5M for three vets to do the same thing as Tatar, Sheahan, and Glendening did.

That’s still juuuuuuuust a little bit north of the combined AAV for those three players , which turns out to be $1.99M

Hell, that difference is enough to pay that $3.5M Cap hit for David Legwand you’re asking for (and with which I agree).

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 04/17/14 at 11:50 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

HHD making a TPSH argument. Watch Crosby lose his shit on Glendenning and you can easily see the difference between Luke and Daniel Cleary.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 04/17/14 at 11:54 AM ET

SK77's avatar

And that’s what’s unfortunate. Again, the rumors I’ve heard place the desire to continue the playoff streak at least somewhat on Chris Ilitch’s shoulders. It’s very scary to think, if this is true, that we may now have ownership strongly influencing team management decisions. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have Ken Holland and his team making decisions they feel are overall in the team’s best interest. What I don’t care for is to think that our new ownership will now be dictating things. That’s the quickest way for a GM’s plans to unravel.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 12:44 PM ET

Seems like every thread that involves a Ken Holland quote about how well “The Kids” have turned out has to start off with you jumping in and regurgitating the same quote over and over again about “The kids are not the answer” so you can show how much more you know than him.

But now you’re going even deeper into the tea leaves, saying Chris Illitch is to blame because he’s a tightwad with a desire to continue the playoff streak, and that’s going to unravel Holland’s plans?

It’s getting a little thick.

Posted by SK77 on 04/17/14 at 11:55 AM ET

SYF's avatar

Legwand was picked up to be a stable, veteran presence while all of Detroit’s NHL centres were on the shelf.  He did what he was brought in to do and in the last week has been relegated to bottom six status, which is what everyone should’ve expected when Detroit started getting people back.

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 10:38 AM ET

Yup.  Wings were crushed by injuries to the centerman position.  Even Joakim Andersson was injured and he was a fourth liner.  Holland needed a veteran centerman badly AT THAT TIME due to the lengthy shutdown of Dangles and Zata’s estimated three month recovery time from back surgery.  I haven’t forgotten how critical that deal was for the Wings even if it costs a lot.

Posted by SYF from Alana Blanchard's Bikinis and Surfboards on 04/17/14 at 12:01 PM ET

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What I believe is this: he is the best center prospect in the organization, above the three guys you mentioned.

As I said, that’s your hangup.  If he were actually above any of those guys on the organization’s depth chart then he might actually have been brought up at some point, or they wouldn’t have traded him.

His value in the eyes of Detroit’s management was such that he was expendable.

Being lower on the NHL pecking order at a point in time doesn’t make you a lesser prospect.

And your belief that he is their best centre prospect doesn’t make it so.

Your distinction between Jarnkrok and Mantha/Mrazek isn’t as great as you’d think.

What you don’t understand is that it is the organization’s distinction, not mine.  And the difference most certainly is that great. 

Petr Mrazek is Detroit’s next goalie. 
Anthony Mantha is the prospect they’re most excited about. 
Calle Jarnkrok is the guy they were willing to part with for a better chance to make the playoffs.

Let’s chat after next season and again three seasons from now.

We don’t have to chat next season or three seasons from now, because trading him changes everything.  He knew that he wasn’t going to get a real shot to play in Detroit for a while, so he started talking about going back to Europe.  If he had not been traded, he might not have ever played a game in the NHL.

Posted by Garth on 04/17/14 at 12:06 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Seriously, everybody’s applauding Glendening for succeeding.  He’s been statistically indistinguishable from Cleary, who everyone harangued as a disaster.

Oh you know…Glendening has cartilage in his knees…can skate with speed…can hit…doesn’t get hurt.

But yes, roll out the stats.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 04/17/14 at 12:21 PM ET

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You can’t seriously compare these two players using statistics alone.

Unless the goal is to make an irrelevant, stupid point valid.

While perhaps being statistically indistinguishable

Except that GlenD is much better and costs payrolls/caps much less.

Glendening is hard on the forecheck, constantly in the face of opponents, and basically a total pain in the ass to play against. Even if he’s not potting goals and assists, he and his line mates are doing the yeoman’s sort of work you want to see your third and fourth line do.

An actual analysis of play is so much better than statistics sometimes.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 04/17/14 at 12:50 PM ET

Ughhhh. That $3 million paid to Sammy for his non-existent 30 goals is sooooo painful.

Calle Jarnkrok is the guy they were willing to part with for a better chance to make the playoffs.

I also wonder if the Wings think more of Janmark then we do (no one seems to talk about him much here). He will be in GR next season as part of his path. Jarnkrok will be on Nashville’s roster (which was not too likely in Detroit). He should be taking the next step or going home to Sweden. That’s his likely path. Why be a career AHL’r in a foreign country when he can play at home. Athanasiou will also be in GR next season. Maybe he plays wing, maybe he plays center. Either way both these guys need playing time in GR to make the next step. Jarnkrok was in their way and his path was ahead of theirs. That makes the trade for Legs more digestible to me. Even if Legs doesn’t re-sign the Wings made the playoffs, that was a goal accomplished, and they have young, promising centers in the litter. If Jarnkrok was complaining about not moving forward and in a sense threatened to leave with no reaping then something was gained in the Legs trade, right?

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 04/17/14 at 12:45 PM ET

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But yes, roll out the stats.

Stats always make a dumb point of view look valid.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 04/17/14 at 12:46 PM ET

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At the trade deadline, Joakim Andersson was our highest available center on the depth chart and he was injured just five days later. Andersson is currently a healthy scratch and Legwand is playing as a winger on the fourth line. When healthy, the Wings are stacked down the middle (and still missing Z obviously).

When Holland made that trade for Legwand, he probably knew that Weiss was done for the season too. The Wings were still in the playoff hunt and I don’t think they would have made the playoffs without the trade. He took a gamble that they might make the playoffs and get healthy versus keeping Jarnkrok. Jarnkrok who wouldn’t crack a healthy lineup anytime soon and they may end up losing anyways.

Wings make the playoffs and now have the closest to a healthy and complete roster more than they’ve had all year with a good chance Z comes back late in the first round. They have an opportunity and in the salary cap era any team is beatable in a seven game series, including the Bruins. The Wings could lose in the first round as many expect or they could go deeper.

As for Glendening, if you actually watched the games as opposed to obsessing over the stats, you would know that he is excellent in his shutdown role which is an important role in the absence of Z even if he doesn’t score. Babs also loves him. I always gave him the benefit of the doubt that Cleary was doing something important we couldn’t see, but at least with Glendening I can see it. Plus Cleary isn’t playing (he was a healthy scratch even before his “injury”)

Posted by ryan-o on 04/17/14 at 01:22 PM ET

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There are some reasonable points here about Jarnkrok. Don’t think I’m so dense that I won’t recognize those. But my belief is that Jarnkrok will be an outstanding NHL center. It may take a year or two, but he’ll be a damn good player. You have to find a way to keep that guy on your team. I’m sorry. You can’t give away a guy like that for a rental player (and a good, if unspectacular one at that).

Does that mean Jarnkrok has to play some wing for a while in the NHL? Not the end of the world.

As I said, that’s your hangup.  If he were actually above any of those guys on the organization’s depth chart then he might actually have been brought up at some point, or they wouldn’t have traded him.

His value in the eyes of Detroit’s management was such that he was expendable.

Or, Chris Ilitch said: “Make the playoffs,” and Ken Holland had to do something. Standing pat wouldn’t be acceptable to Chris if the team missed the playoffs. So he scrambled all day - “Do I bring up Jarnkrok until we get some centers back and pray we don’t tailspin or do I do anything I possibly can to trade for a center?” So now, let’s assume that Holland decided he’s going to get a 1st/2nd line center to play on the top line for the time being. Ok, who’s available? Slim pickens. Next to nothing that meets the team’s needs. So he hits on whomever is available - probably Kesler and Legwand - look what other centers got moved…Callahan…. OK, the price for Kesler is sky high. Pass.

Who’s left? Legwand. Ok, what’s it going to take? “I have four other teams breathing down my neck for Legwand.” “Ok, DO NOT move him until you call me back. Here’s what I can give you…” “OK. Pass. But it’s in the ballpark. Waiting for callback from two others.” ” Ok…so it’s 2:55 and I need Jarnkrok and a conditional 2nd/3rd round pick and we’ll take Eaves. Otherwise he’s going somewhere else.” “OK. Do it.”

This trade was the last one of the day. Don’t assume just because they traded Jarnkrok that it means they believed him to be expendable. It’s possible that Holland’s hand was forced. It’s possible that Holland was faced with trading a good, promising prospect or not being able to do anything at all. He was in a desperate situation. He traded a very good player. But the way you spin it is that they didn’t think much of Jarnkrok that they couldn’t afford to deal him for a rental. I think there’s a lot more to it and I really don’t think Ken Holland ever wanted to deal him but literally had his hand forced by an unforeseeable desperate situation.

I also wonder if the Wings think more of Janmark then we do

Posted by howeandhowe on 04/17/14 at 01:45 PM ET

See, now that’s a reasonable statement. That’s entirely possible. He’s kind of an unknown to us because it’s hard for us to get a handle on how the competition is in the SHL compared to the AHL. It’s hard to guage where he’s at. I look at places like Hockeysfuture and Redwingscentral and Jarnmark isn’t ranked anywhere near where Jarnkrok was (well, Hockeysfuture had Jarnkrok at a 7.5C/10 and Janmark at a 7.0D/10; RWC had Jarnkrok at #4 and Janmark at 15). Now I can’t comment on the scouting at those sites so I don’t know if these sites have the same problem we have related to comparing different leagues with one across the globe (and who knows how much actual visibility they get watching/scouting the SHL). At the end of the day, older prospects coming out of the SHL/SM-Liiga (i.e., getting drafted late and playing extended time in the SHL before coming to the AHL/NHL) tend to be fizzlers. Filppula’s brother? Fabian Brunnstrom?

Anyways,

 

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 01:55 PM ET

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Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/17/14 at 02:55 PM ET

If we use Hihd’s statistical lying method Janmark is quite similar to Jarnkrok coming out of the SHL. Except that, Jarnkrok was playing with a few guys who are not in the NHL and Janmark was doing his work with just sweds (nothing is meant by that). Thus they should be the same player - Hudlerlite in most cases (wink).

I’ve seen Janmark play a handful of times. He looked good compared to who was on the ice but he did not dominate though he did play a lot - in all situations. He’s also a year younger than Jarnkrok and will have a year in GR - assuming he’s happy to do that - to make an impact on the Wings and become more comparable to Jarnkrok. In my opinion he’s not similar to Brunnstrom nor Filppula (brother) nor Leno simply because he is much younger than those guys when noticed. By no means am I jumping on his bandwagon. I’m just pointing out that when looking at who is in GR and on the Wings now and who is coming up from overseas and Jrs the Center position is one place the Wing’s have a lot of good players. Maybe on will develop into a #1 center in the next two or three years when Dats leaves.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 04/17/14 at 02:33 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.