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Talking about the expansion draft and ‘Protected Lists’

The Detroit News's Ted Kulfan penned a lengthy article regarding the Red Wings' "Protected List" for the expansion draft, and Kulfan spoke with Red Wings GM Ken Holland regarding his plans surrounding the expansion draft:

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said the Red Wings will go the 7-3-1 route.

Prior to submitting the protected list, Holland expects plenty of phone calls with teams wanting to get something in return from a team, rather than just losing a player for nothing in the draft.

“If there’s a possibility for a trade out there to make us better, we’re going to try to make it happen,” Holland said. “I anticipate I’ll be on the phone a lot a week or two leading up to submitting a list of players [on June 17th].”

Teams might sway the Golden Knights to pick somebody else rather than an unprotected player it really wants to keep. And Vegas general manager George McPhee told the Associated Press he’d be happy to stockpile draft picks.

“If (teams) want to give us draft picks to encourage us to take a certain player or leave another player alone, we’re open-minded and we’re going to listen to everyone,” McPhee said. “You usually build your team, historically, through the entry draft, so we’d certainly be interested in acquiring picks.”

Vegas must also take on approximately $43.8 million of salary – the minimum salary cap – through the expansion draft.

Kulfan continues, making his "protected list" picks...

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Comments

WingedRider's avatar

“If there’s a possibility for a trade out there to make us better, we’re going to try to make it happen,” Holland said. “I anticipate I’ll be on the phone a lot a week or two leading up to submitting a list of players [on June 17th].”


Trades are hard, KH top Comment!!

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 05/16/17 at 08:40 PM ET

awould's avatar

This expansion draft will be pretty interesting for the armchair GMs, lots to analyze, looking forward to it.

Posted by awould on 05/16/17 at 09:16 PM ET

The Meal's avatar

Not Jensen, not Jensen, not Jensen…

Posted by The Meal from Longmont, CO on 05/16/17 at 09:54 PM ET

The Meal's avatar

I’m on board with every one of Kulfan’s selections excepting one (and I’m open to being out-to-lunch on that one).  I’d swap his protection of Green for Ouellet.  From that list, I’d expect to be losing either Sheahan, Glendening, or Howard.

All along I wondered if Vegas would embrace the unique nature of this draft and do something really off the charts like select 30 goaltenders, creating a forced run on the position and being able to name their price for redistributing back-up netminders.  I don’t think this is the winning strategy for the draft (the backstop market has been weird the past few seasons, and I’m sure more than a few teams would be happy with their own AHL/Coreau equivalent, which if done to a large enough extent would cause this strategy to blow up in the Knights’ faces).

Posted by The Meal from Longmont, CO on 05/16/17 at 10:14 PM ET

Steve in San Francisco's avatar

All along I wondered if Vegas would embrace the unique nature of this draft and do something really off the charts like select 30 goaltenders, creating a forced run on the position

I thought an interesting strategy would be to take a pile (maybe not 30, tho) defensemen. The NHL seems to have a huge shortage of NHL calibre d-men, and there will be plenty of at least passable guys unprotected. Then go crazy on the trade market this summer and see if you can’t stockpile a ton of picks and a young franchise-type forward or two.

Posted by Steve in San Francisco on 05/16/17 at 10:47 PM ET

Avatar

I’m on board with every one of Kulfan’s selections excepting one (and I’m open to being out-to-lunch on that one).  I’d swap his protection of Green for Ouellet.  From that list, I’d expect to be losing either Sheahan, Glendening, or Howard.

Green could fetch a first rounder at the trade deadline this coming season and is our best defenseman. There’s absolutely zero chance they leave him unprotected. He has value, and losing him for nothing would be idiotic.

Posted by A II R on 05/16/17 at 11:17 PM ET

Avatar

Kenny is going to be making some calls a week or two before the draft. Sounds like a winning strategy. I’m sure none of the other GMs are taking care of business right now, you know, cutting side deals with Vegas. Like what is stopping Kenny from contacting teams with surplus defensemen and swinging a deal now. Take a team like Montreal. They have Weber. They have to protect Petry. That leaves Emelin, Beaulieu, the recently acquired Jordie Benn who played quite well for them. See what it would take to acquire Beaulieu. He’s only 24. Can move the puck (just put up 28 points). Maybe they’d like some sandpaper like Glendening and one of our 3rd rounders. We should be calling Winnipeg daily to see what they are going to do. See what Columbus is going to do with Savard, Johnson, Murray. Anaheim has a major problem.
Like this expansion draft is a miracle event for Kenny to acquire a younger top 4 d-man for cheap and his masterplan is to make a bunch of calls 1-2 weeks before the draft. I’ll bet 90% of those calls will be to Vegas begging that they don’t take Howard or Glendening. Watch him end up squandering one of our draft picks to make sure Vegas lays off a boat anchor…and then Vegas will happily select Ouellet or Nosek or Jensen anyway. Just ridiculous. Make some calls and kick some tires sometime next month. No urgency at all in this clown.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/16/17 at 11:20 PM ET

Avatar

We should be doing whatever it takes to shed a bad contract. I don’t care who. That means you can’t leave a cheap young asset exposed:

Forward: Nielsen, Zee, Tatar, AA, Mantha, Sheahan, Nosek. Expose Abby, Helm, Glendening, Nyquist

Defense: Green (trade value), Jensen, Ouellet. Trade Sproul so he isn’t exposed. That leaves Dekeyser, Kronwall, Ericsson exposed

Goal: Mrazek. Trade Coreau. Expose Howard.

So basically force Vegas to take either Abby, Helm, Glendening, Nyquist, Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard. Leave them no other option. If that means giving away someone like Sproul and Coreau to make that happen then so be it. This is our chance to escape a crippling deal. The pathetic thing is many of these deals are just 1-2 years old. Like how bad is your GM when a deal looks awful before the ink even dries. How come fans saw the immediately with deals for Abby, Helm, Glendening but our brilliant GM was too blind?

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 12:13 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

“If there’s a possibility for a trade out there to make us better, we’re going to try to make it happen I’m going to find a way to screw our organization just as much as humanly possible,” Holland said.

There. Fixed that for you, Kenny – you ass.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 05/17/17 at 12:44 AM ET

Avatar

“If there’s a possibility for a trade out there to make us better, we’re going to try to make it happen I’m going to find a way to screw our organization just as much as humanly possible,” Holland said.

There. Fixed that for you, Kenny – you ass.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 05/17/17 at 12:44 AM ET

Kenny just sent Draper a singing telegram asking him to go on the internets and find out who this Andreas Borgman guy is. How did the Leafs just sign 3 European kids when the draft is a month away? Boy its hard being a GM. Maybe after the Leafs bring in all these cheap Euros they won’t resign Matt Hunwick. He’s our man.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 12:55 AM ET

Avatar

Other than protecting Nyquist, who surely still has some value, I’d agree with the above approach.

We really can force LV to either take a bad contract, or a marginal/good but not great and not
yet established player. I’d risk losing Nosek, I guess.

That way, LV might need to deal with us, rather than Kenny begging and overpaying to protect one of his favorites.

Totally agree about protecting Green for trade value and Jensen and Ouellet.

If it’s possible to get a solid return for Sheahan, do it. If we can get a good young defenseman back
for Nyqust-plus….do it.

Can you imagine Kenny in George McPhee’s role? Virtually other GM seems to have a rational method and purpose behind their moves…except for ours.

Posted by Lefty30 on 05/17/17 at 01:29 AM ET

Avatar

So basically force Vegas to take either Abby, Helm, Glendening, Nyquist, Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard. Leave them no other option.

They don’t have to take someone from the NHL roster.  There are plenty of options.

And even if you somehow manage to force them to choose one of those, they’re likely going to choose Howard, the guy who is clearly the best option on that list because he’s the better of Detroit’s goalies.

Gee, I’m sure George McPhee will just quit his job rather than selecting the goalie who was statistically one of the very best goalies in the entire league last year.

So in your scenario they’ve gotten rid of Sproul and Coreau for…um…reasons?  And they’ve lost their best goalie while still having a giant pile of garbage clogging up the D and the bottom six.  Oh, and as an added bonus, when Mrazek continues to be his inconsistent self, he’s going to “earn” a nice, big, fat extension that will make Jimmy Howard’s current contract look like an ELC, because Kenny will panic since he traded away his good goalie.

So…what problem does that solve?

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 05/17/17 at 09:14 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Yeah, let’s take Howie in a year that was a very strong outlier in his career track, is way too oft-injured, and is on the wrong side of 30. sike.

The only way I take Howie off of Detroit’s hands is if they compensated me further, if it helps me reach the cap floor, or if I feel like I can actually trade him for further compensation, or any combination of the three. Besides, who says Vegas wants to win now?

Posted by ilovehomers on 05/17/17 at 09:21 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

At this point, I assume someone is going to trade for one of the Pen’s goalies, and LV will be the only team left with a need in net, and if I’m George McPhee, taking Jimmy Howard is an absolute no brainer.

LV is fielding a start up team of castaways, prospects and rookies. They come to the season with no carryover, no consistency no chemistry, literally they are starting from scratch.  You need a proven vet on the back end to shore that up, a situation like that might ruin a rookie’s head.

LV needs to reach the salary floor, that plugs a hole

His cap hit exceeds his actual salary

He’s only signed for 2 years

Short term bridge for whatever future goalie they take from another team.

Howard, if he performs well in the LV situation, would be an extremely attractive trade chip next year.

No other available wings player could/would impact LV like Howard would.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 05/17/17 at 09:22 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Hey Hey Hockeyfart on 05/17/17 at 09:22 AM ET

Fair enough - I just don’t see Howie being that “solid vet” especially when he is off the ice for 40%-50% of the season.

McPhee has to play his cards right - hem and haw about he needs a goalie, but not Howie…see if KH bites on flipping him a pick. Because I am not taking Howie without a bit more incentive.

Then again, I am just a guy.

Posted by ilovehomers on 05/17/17 at 09:31 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Wait, Nyquist’s contract is bad? Capfriendly has this worderful contract comparables thing (which considers cap hit, signing age and duration, among other things), and the top 10 Nyquist comparables (Kreider, Hoffman, Kucherov, Hagelin, Eakin, Silvferberg, Palmieri, Lehtera, Ennis, Johansen) averaged 37,6 points this season, with 17,1 goals.

Nyquist had 48 points and 12 goals. A little below the goals average, somewhat above the points average. Among these 11 guys, he’s 5th in points and 7th in goals.

So he’s probably worth exactly what his contract says.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 05/17/17 at 09:48 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar
Posted by ilovehomers on 05/17/17 at 09:31 AM ET 

We posted at the same time, i.e. I did not see your post as I typed mine. As a wings fan, I think your thinking too much wings. The wings are just one of 30 teams McPhee will be taking a player from, on top of looking at UFAs, and the draft, remember, this is complete greenfield here, there’s no operations to pickup improve or put his spin on, he’s starting from scratch. He has much bigger fish to fry that trying to school Ken Holland for a pick, there are teams out there with players they desperately want to protect, those are the teams McPhee will be focused on.

We do know that no matter what he does, Ken Holland will suck because of it.

Wait, Nyquist’s contract is bad?
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 05/17/17 at 09:48 AM ET

Yes of course, Ken Holland signed it, and everything begins and ends with Ken Holland sucks,  that’s the standard, you’ve been here long enough to know that.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 05/17/17 at 10:16 AM ET

The Meal's avatar

Green could fetch a first rounder at the trade deadline this coming season and is our best defenseman. There’s absolutely zero chance they leave him unprotected. He has value, and losing him for nothing would be idiotic.

—A II R on 05/16/17 at 11:17 PM ET

My thought process was that he’s a UFA after this season, and I don’t think he’s the missing piece to put the ‘17-‘18 DRW over the top.  I know nothing about his value in the locker room for helping develop his younger teammates, but my impression is that he seems pretty reserved in interactions with his teammates.

I don’t expect a big roster overhaul before the expansion draft, but if there was one, in a perfect world I’d like to see KH move Howard and Green for protected assets which couldn’t be lost at the draft.

Posted by The Meal from Longmont, CO on 05/17/17 at 12:07 PM ET

Colin's avatar

And they’ve lost their best goalie while still having a giant pile of garbage clogging up the D and the bottom six.  Oh, and as an added bonus, when Mrazek continues to be his inconsistent self, he’s going to “earn” a nice, big, fat extension that will make Jimmy Howard’s current contract look like an ELC, because Kenny will panic since he traded away his good goalie.

So…what problem does that solve?

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 05/17/17 at 09:14 AM ET

If you look at their numbers, prorated for games and categorized by the quality of shots faced, the only difference between Howard and Mrazek this year is the wildly disproportionate number of cross-ice, midrange one-timers that giant pile of garbage clogging up the D let through to Mrazek. On Low Danger Opportunities (the hair-pullers) Mrazek was MUCH better than Howard. On High Danger Opportunities, Mrazek was slightly better. Mrazek struggled on Medium Range opportunities, and faced nearly 80-100 more of those than Howard did when adjusted to number of games played. Having watched nearly every game this year and seeing the frankly embarrassing number of uncontested 2-on-1 one timers we coughed up when Mrazek was in goal, it came as no surprise to see him struggling. Howard got hung out to dry nowhere near as much as Mrazek did this year.

As I have said many times, Mrazek isn’t the problem, our “defense” is.

So let them have Howard. He’ll get injured again and probably regress to the mean, while a long offseason to clear his head will help Mrazek return to the top-10 form he had when he was a rookie filled with piss and vinegar.

It’s then up to Kenny to make sure we have the defense to help Mrazek to succeed.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 05/17/17 at 12:18 PM ET

SnarkinLarkin's avatar

Giving away Green or Nyquist to Vegas for nothing but cap relief is stupid. They have trade value. Protecting Sheahan? Seriously? 
Plus keeping Green gives another 3/4 of a season (before we leverage him for assets at the trade deadline) to mentor someone like Jensen. (Offensively that is. Leave the defensive mentoring to Chelios or Lidstrom!).
Jensen is arguably (next to Green) our best skating defensemen. The way he walks the line is amazing. Given a chance I see Jensen as a highly skilled powerplay quarterback in the making. Oulette may have the edge defensively, but not by that much. Replacing Oullette’s skill set would be much easier.

Posted by SnarkinLarkin on 05/17/17 at 01:09 PM ET

Avatar

Sheahan has trade value too. I’m sure a team like the Oilers wished they had a big 3C or 4C, as opposed to the 5’0 David Deharnais. Protect Sheahan because he can be converted to a draft pick. What can Abby be converted into? Nothing. Negative value.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 01:39 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

Given a chance I see Jensen as a highly skilled powerplay quarterback in the making. Oulette may have the edge defensively, but not by that much. Replacing Oullette’s skill set would be much easier.

I agree. They need to protect Jensen. cheese

Posted by bigfrog on 05/17/17 at 01:41 PM ET

Avatar

If Jensen is your #1 PP QB then you’ve got a poor roster. He’s a 4/5 d-man that can probably help on a 2nd PP unit. Sproul could use a longer look to see if he can carry that load. But neither guy has a high ceiling. As for Ouellet, he’s a fringe NHL’er. I could see him fulfilling a Lashoff role…a guy who can fill in for a pinch and not kill you. But that’s about it.
If we had a legit #1 pair then everyone would slot better:
Fowler-Trouba
Dekesyer-Jensen
Ouellet-Sproul-Ericsson
Green traded. Kronwall on IR forever.
But trades are hard. Other GMs keep asking about Mantha, Larkin, and AA. How dare they!

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 02:07 PM ET

Avatar

Nyquist contract is the least of our problems. At the time he was signed, he looked like a 25-27 goal scorer (and maybe he still is under the right circumstances). I do not think anybody complained about that contract at the time it was signed. Abby, Helm and Glen is a different story.

Posted by VPalmer on 05/17/17 at 03:22 PM ET

Avatar

Nyquist contract is the least of our problems. At the time he was signed, he looked like a 25-27 goal scorer (and maybe he still is under the right circumstances). I do not think anybody complained about that contract at the time it was signed. Abby, Helm and Glen is a different story.

Posted by VPalmer on 05/17/17 at 03:22 PM ET

Agreed. Nyquist is not great value at this price. But Abby might be one of the worst contracts in the NHL. Helm and Glendummy ar enot far behind. Why on earth did we reward Glendummy with a 4-year extension, a full 12 months before free agency, when you had Nosek in your system. Take a year. See how LGD performs. See how Nosek progresses. Then decide what to do. I mean, if LGD was a UFA right now, I let him walk in a heartbeat and promote Nosek. Done. 4 more years at $1.8M. Pathetic.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 03:54 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Nyquist is not great value at this price

He’s exactly what you should get at his price.

Helm, on the other hand… His 8 goals and and 17 points rank 8th and 9th among his ten comparable contracts. The guys in that group averaged 13,6 goals and 32,5 points this season. Good grief.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 05/17/17 at 04:04 PM ET

Avatar

Nyquist is not great value at this price

He’s exactly what you should get at his price.

Helm, on the other hand… His 8 goals and and 17 points rank 8th and 9th among his ten comparable contracts. The guys in that group averaged 13,6 goals and 32,5 points this season. Good grief.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 05/17/17 at 04:04 PM ET

You may be relying too heavily on point totals to measure value. Are there other wingers making $4.75M that matched the 48 points by Nyquist. Of course. I can find many who fell short of that. But maybe they add value in other ways. I’d happily trade Nyquist for a rugged winger that scores 20 goals instead of 12, even if that means he gets 20 assists instead of 36. Maybe that rugged winger performs better at even-strength. Maybe he plays a physical game and draws a lot of penalties. Maybe he makes his teammates better. Does Nyquist do any of those other things well? Not really. He scored 12 goals which is pretty awful. He racked up a healthy 36 assists but he was not driving his line, making teammates better, playing physical.

I’ll throw out a name like Chris Kreider. One year younger. Makes $100K less. He got 53 points to Nyquist’s 48. But Kreider had 28 goals compared to just 12 for Nyquist. Kreider plays with an edge. He draws more penalties. He hits more. He’s more versatile. Kreider is excellent value for the money. Nyquist is not. He’s not as awful as Abby or Helm or LGD, but I’m sorry, I expect more from a $4.75M winger.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 04:19 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I’ll throw out a name like Chris Kreider. One year younger. Makes $100K less. He got 53 points to Nyquist’s 48. But Kreider had 28 goals compared to just 12 for Nyquist. Kreider plays with an edge. He draws more penalties. He hits more. He’s more versatile. Kreider is excellent value for the money. Nyquist is not. He’s not as awful as Abby or Helm or LGD, but I’m sorry, I expect more from a $4.75M winger.

I absolutely understand what you’re talking about, but Kreider is an outlier. I’m not arguing Nyquist is the best at his price range, just that he’s adequate, which is far away from a “bad contract”.

The issue with Nyquist and Tatar (another guy completely in line with what he’s paid) isn’t that they don’t score enough, is that they’re the focal points in the offense. The solution is not replacing them with different players, is getting better players to fit above them in the depth chart.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 05/17/17 at 04:31 PM ET

SnarkinLarkin's avatar

If Sheahan would hit like Abby or could score like Abby, then you have an argument. Is Abby’s contract too much for too long? Obviously. But to say that Sheahan can replace Abby or has higher value is delusional. The only advantage Telatubby has is that, although also grossly overpaid for what he brings to the table, at least the overall cap hit is less.  Sorry, but I can’t get on the Sheahan bandwagon. We’d be lucky to get more than a 6th rounder for him.

Posted by SnarkinLarkin on 05/18/17 at 01:13 AM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.

 

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