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The Malik Report

Red Wings mid-day news: Not for a lack of trying

I know that failure is not an option around here, and that trying doesn’t count as far as Red Wings fans are concerned, but this Red Wings fan can’t help but give the team an “A for Effort”: over the last three weeks, the Wings have made an in-person pitch to Ryan Suter, MLive’s Ansar Khan told us that the Wings did their best to land Rick Nash, instead of throwing an offer sheet at Shea Weber, TSN’s Darren Dreger reported that the Wings were trying to trade for Weber’s rights instead, and we already know that the Wings are assumed to be serious bidders for Shane Doan’s services as they wait to find out whether Doan will leave Phoenix at all.

In the interim, the Wings did their best to pluck some bargain signings off the market in the once-every-other year retread in Mikael Samuelsson (cheaper than Jiri Hudler, can replace Hudler’s goal scoring), the more and more affable Jordin Tootoo and something of a safe gamble in Jonas “the Monster” Gustavsson, all the while wrapping up deals to keep Darren Helm and then Kyle Quincey in the fold, with only Justin Abdelkader to re-sign and Tomas Holmstrom’s future to determine.

We also know that, as noted in the overnight report, the Wings at least have some sort of interest in Alex Semin’s services, and that the Free Press’s Helene St. James believes that the Wings are both looking at bargain/band-aid UFA defenseman and are probably playing the trade market right now:

The Wings remain in search of a defenseman to add to their top four, which now includes Kronwall, Quincey and Jonathan Ericsson. Brendan Smith might audition for a spot if needed, but given he has 14 games of NHL experience, he’d be a risk to put in such a prominent position instead of in the third pairing.

The Wings pursued Ryan Suter, but he opted for more money and to be closer to his family and chose Minnesota. They also offered a contract to Sami Salo, but he chose Tampa Bay. They weren’t interested in Matt Carle at the $5.5-million cap hit he got from the Lightning.

This wasn’t a banner summer for unrestricted free-agent defensemen, and the ones left are third-pair types. The Wings will continue to explore their options, but are more likely to improve their defense now via trade.

MLive’s Ansar Khan agreed in his article about the Weber offer sheet…

The Red Wings, under general manager Ken Holland, have never tendered an offer sheet to a restricted free agent. Holland has said he believes it’s pointless, since the player’s team almost always matches.

Detroit desperately needs a top pair defenseman after Nicklas Lidstrom retired. The Red Wings made a big push for Weber’s teammate, Ryan Suter, offering him a 13-year deal worth $88 million, but he signed instead with the Minnesota Wild for $98 million over 13 years.

There are no more high-end defensemen on the free-agent market, forcing the Red Wings to fill that void through a trade.

The Red Wings also are seeking a top-six winger. They offered New Jersey’s Zach Parise a 13-year deal worth $73 million, but weren’t even in the ball park. He joined Suter in Minnesota for the same amount (13 years, $98 million).

The Red Wings made an offer for Shane Doan, who apparently won’t decide anytime soon whether to re-sign with the Phoenix Coyotes.

They also made an offer to the Columbus Blue Jackets for Rick Nash, but it generated no conversation.

And it’s also worth repeating that Fox Sports Detroit’s Ken Daniels disagreed with my, “Get a band-aid and wait till the CBA is settled and training cam/the exhibition season/earl regular season leave teams with extra defensemen that can be had more affordably than they’re probably worth now” theory, telling the Fan 590’s Greg Brady that he believes the Wings will pursue a trade this summer:

Download file

So yes, I struck a moderate tone, perhaps a predictably moderate tone, in the overnight report, but I also readily admitted that Ken Holland, Jim Nill, Ryan Martin and Mike Babcock were working the phones like men with multiple plans in the works during the Wings’ summer development camp last week, and as that phone-working has bore out some very definitive results…

I’m not faulting the Wings for trying to aggressively improve their team and continuing to do so as the days have passed and more evidence suggests that Ken Holland is doing anything but spending his days golfing at the Predator Ridge course in Vernon, British Columbia, that all Mike Babcock is doing is water-skiing and having a few “pops” by the fire in Emma Lake, Saskatchewan, or that Ryan Martin are simply dealing with the heat as best they can and dodging rain while golfing here in Metro Detroit.

The Wings’ brass has multiple plans of action in play here, and while they haven’t landed the player(s) they’ve targeted, they are clearly moving forward with dogged determination, aggressive resolve, poise and something that you and I lack at this time of year—patience—which is an excellent sign.

 


Regarding Weber in particular, the Free Press’s Helene St. James tossed off the following Tweets this morning…

 

And St. James offered this take on the Red Wings-related ramifications of the Weber offer, especially given this morning’s news that the offer sheet pays out $14 million—with $13 million of it lockout-proofed as signing bonuses—over the first four years, almost blowing the Carolina Hurricanes’ offer sheet to Sergei Fedorov out of the water:

The Wings coveted Weber, but poaching other teams’ restricted free agents—while it’s allowed under the collective bargaining agreement—is not their modus operandi. They would have preferred to work out a trade for Weber, but as unlikely as it is that Columbus will trade superstar forward Rick Nash to Detroit, the odds of Nashville trading the face of their franchise to Detroit are even fainter.

The Predators have a legitimate rivalry with the Wings, most recently stoked when Nashville bumped Detroit in the first round of the playoffs this year. For the Predators to announce they’ve shipped their best player to an opponent within the Central Division, the return investment would have to be phenomenal—think Zetterberg or Pavel Datsyuk (neither of whom would have been relinquished), and then some.

What the Flyers offered Weber isn’t outrageous—it fits right in with what elite players are getting. Suter, 27, got 13 years and $98 million from Minnesota. Suter’s cap hit is $7.5 million; Drew Doughty, the Los Angeles Kings’ stud defenseman, has a cap hit of $7 million through 2018-19.

But while an average cap hit of around $7.1 million for Weber is palatable, what might make the Predators choke is how the contract is structured. Nick Kypreos, a former player, reported on Twitter that the offer sheet would pay Weber $56 million over the first four years—about half of the total money involved. That might prevent the Predators from matching.

If the Flyers do get Weber, here’s the upside for the Wings: He’s out of their division and out of the Western Conference. At most, they’ll have to face him once or twice a season, barring a meeting in the Stanley Cup finals. And the Flyers will have dealt a devastating blow to the Predators, one of the Wings’ top competitors.

She makes a good point on both counts. I can’t imagine the Predators trading Weber to Detroit without asking for a huge premium, so while some of you might suggest that Ken Holland’s intestinal fortitude might be lacking, the fact that he has aggressively pursued Suter, pursued Nash, and pursued Weber by a realistic method—because, let’s face it, the odds are better than 50/50 that the Predators will match the Flyers’ offer because the team would be left in shambles otherwise—and the fact that the team’s willing to wait for Doan show me that Holland’s cajones may be plated with tungsten carbide after all.

 


Also of, uh, note: the German website Kicker Online is confirming that the Cologne Sharks (Kolner Haie) have signed Chris Minard to a one-year deal, and he’ll be joining a former Grand Rapids Griffin in Germany as Doug Janik signed with Adler Mannheim last week. The Griffins have also lost Garnet Exelby to the Bruins last week, though they’ve signed Triston Grant, Nathan Paetsch, Chad Billins and Luke Glendening to AHL-only deals, Jim Nill is not quite done building a solid core of veterans and/or NHL-ready call-ups around Jeff Blashill’s team of very young players.

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Comments

Ajax19's avatar

While I appreciate what Holland is saying about RFAs and I understand it’s not the Red Wings’ “modus operandi”, perhaps it’s time to re-think things a bit.

I understand the perils of RFA offer sheets and how they don’t often work and the risks involved, but this seemed like a perfect oppportunity:

1.  Player in his prime and one of the best at his position.

2.  Money to spend.  There are no current cap issues.  The 7 day waiting period would put no pressure on the Wings.  They would still have room to sign a Doan or Semin or whatever (if that would even happen) regardless of whether Weber signed.  So, even if the Predators do match it, what harm would have befallen the Wings?

Posted by Ajax19 on 07/19/12 at 02:29 PM ET

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The Wings coveted Weber, but poaching other teams’ restricted free agents—while it’s allowed under the collective bargaining agreement—is not their modus operandi.

Then screw it. If the Wings wanna be cool and loyal to their players (even past their expiration dates), okay. But being respectful to other franchises by not improving your own, that’s just disrespectful to your own team.

I’m angry and probably saying silly stuff, but come on, lowballing Suter and Parise (I know it wasn’t about money, but even if it was, Holland offered $8 million less, backed up by a $1.5 billion dude (who paid $214M for a guy who plays the same position as his best players) who wants nothing less than winning the Stanley Cup, World Series and Hot-dog Eating Contest.

Again, I’m pissed off, but… oh *#$%@& it.

Posted by Herm from the office on 07/19/12 at 02:45 PM ET

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AS KH said after Suter signed, we’re in a cap world where players can earn the same anywhere & therefore sign where they WANT to live & play.

Maybe in this cap world, a highly front-loaded deal is an option to differentiate on pay & make things unequal.

Until /unless the CBA changes, the next logical step is, say, $100M over 12 years with $50M or $60M or more paid out in the first few years.  Re-differentiate the well-moneyed clubs from the less-moneyed clubs. 

I’m no CBA expert but under this strategy, isn’t there an extra bonus in that, after those 3 -4 -5 super-paid years, the cap hit is manageable enough that the guy becomes trade-able again.  Sort of the opposite, or at least a twist, on the deals we signed with Z & Franzen?  Hmmm…

Posted by vfsvfl on 07/19/12 at 02:48 PM ET

socalwingnut's avatar

Ajax, I think it comes down to a principle thing. The Red Wings are not one of “those” organizations. Who submits these offers these days? Kevin Lowe and now Paul Holmgren? Not exactly the company Mr. I or Kenny want to be in, I think.

Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 02:51 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

after those 3 -4 -5 super-paid years, the cap hit is manageable enough that the guy becomes trade-able again

does it really work that way?  if someone signs for $10 million for 10 years (easy numbers), but $8 million is paid in the first five years, if he is traded after year five does the cap hit stay $10 million or does it drop to $400K (the remaining $2 million over 5 years)?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 07/19/12 at 03:10 PM ET

socalwingnut's avatar

I think the cap hit stays the same, but the actual payout is what makes it palatable to teams. They essentialy have a contract with a cap hit of 7.5 or so, but significantly less in real operaating dollars. That might be intriguing to a team that is cash strapped.

Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 03:17 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 01:51 PM ET

I think you’d be mistaken to believe that Illitch doesn’t operate this way.  When he wants something he will do what he has to to get it. That said, I get the impression that most of his energy the past few years has been focused on hoisting a gold trophy with flags on it on a cold November night.

With big FA’s not signing in Detroit over the past few weeks for whatever reason may be, I think the important thing to focus on for Wings fans is how the teams’ trading relationships have changed with other franchises across the NHL over the past four years since some (one) important people left town. 

This is what the Wings are most likely to hang their hat on if they want to back-fill for either Lidstrom or Rafalski over the next few seasons before Pavs retires.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 07/19/12 at 03:18 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I have to agree with Ajax. This is not a principle or moral issue. The RFA rules were collectively bargained and agreed to by both sides. The fact that VERY few offer sheets are signed could point to collusion on the owners’ side, and that would be a moral issue as well as a violation of the CBA.

Bottom line: there is a provision of the CBA that could potentially help the Wings and Holland flat out ignores it.

I hated that Holland and Ilitch matched the offer sheet that the Canes gave Federov in 1998. How nice would those four first round pics be today, especially since the Canes missed the playoffs two of the four seasons.

For a team that routinely drafts in the bottom of the first round (where the talent is already depleted), I would think going after RFA’s would be a no brainer.

Before you flame me about all of the late round gems the Wings have found over the years, realize that just isn’t happening like it used to because now everyone else is scouting Europe just as hard as we are.

Z was drafted in 1999. Kronner in 2000. Mule in 2004. Other than Mule, have the Wings drafted anyone in the last ten years that is a top six forward or top two d-man? (Not that you could actually call Mule top six anymore.)

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 03:18 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I saw in a post by the Emperor that PK Subban is eligible for an offer sheet. Do it Kenny!

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 03:21 PM ET

Red Winger's avatar

I saw in a post by the Emperor that PK Subban is eligible for an offer sheet. Do it Kenny!

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 07/19/12 at 02:21 PM ET

RFA, and there is no way the Habs let him go.

From my understanding he is the last player they need to sign, and they still have over 6m in cap space. It was a good summer for Montreal.

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 07/19/12 at 03:29 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I know he’s an RFA, which is why I said sign him to an offer sheet. You are correct that the Habs would never let him go. Unless Kenny offered him some undogly amount…

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 03:32 PM ET

socalwingnut's avatar

I think you’d be mistaken to believe that Illitch doesn’t operate this way.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 07/19/12 at 02:18 PM ET

Perhaps, but there is no evidence to suggest otherwise as it relates to the Red WIngs based upon the years of history when it comes to RFA’s and the Detroit Red Wings. Signing Prince Fielder to such a huge contract is not the same sort of situation as Prince was essentially unrestricted. Added into that mix is the family ties with Cecil Fielder. This seems to be important to Mr. I, but I could be reading it wrong.

I have to agree with Ajax. This is not a principle or moral issue. The RFA rules were collectively bargained and agreed to by both sides.

Whatever the league wide agreement may be has little to do with it being a principled thing with the Detroit Red Wings. Just because it’s “legal” doesn’t make it a viable option.

Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 03:37 PM ET

WingsFanInBeanLand's avatar

I saw in a post by the Emperor that PK Subban is eligible for an offer sheet. Do it Kenny!

Yes please.

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from where free agents no longer dare. on 07/19/12 at 03:46 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Whatever the league wide agreement may be has little to do with it being a principled thing with the Detroit Red Wings. Just because it’s “legal” doesn’t make it a viable option.
Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 02:37 PM ET

You missed the whole point. This isn’t “legal” or “illegal” issue. The NHL and the NHLPA negotiated a contract, the CBA, which sets all the rules for free agency (restricted and unrestricted); Federal, Canadien, state and provincial laws have nothing to do with it. And, IIRC, the owners ratified this CBA unanimously, so if it is so unprincipled or immoral, why did the Wings vote in favor of it?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 03:48 PM ET

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Posted by Herm from the office on 07/19/12 at 01:45 PM ET

He certainly didn’t lowball Suter, he decided what was most important to the Wings and targeted a top pairing defenseman, knowing that there were more forwards available that defensemen.

And if he was talking trade with Nashville why WOULD he send an offer sheet?

Holland offered $8 million less

Aks yourself something: do you think he knew what was being offered by other GMs when he made his offer?  He adjusted his offer when it was appropriate to do so, and by all accounts he was among the last two teams who were in on landing Suter.

I would bet real world dollars that Philly signed Weber to the offer sheet because they were told they were out of the running to trade for him.  It was a desperation move, and if Holland believed that he was in on a trade then there’s no earthly reason to go the offer sheet route, because you’re entirely putting the ball in Nashville’s court rather than potentially working out a hockey deal.

Once you sign a player to an offer sheet you’re done.  There’s no negotiation, you simply have to sit back and hope that they don’t match it, and when the GM has said publicly that he’ll match any offer sheet then you’re making an all or nothing play.

Posted by Garth on 07/19/12 at 03:51 PM ET

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why did the Wings vote in favor of it?

Because if you vote against it then every other GM knows it and knows that if they try to sign one of your guys to an offer sheet they can do so without worry that you’re going to retaliate.

And socalwingnut isn’t saying it’s a legal issue but in fact the exact opposite.  Whether it’s legal or illegal is irrelevant to Holland.  He does what he believes in and what he believes is right.

Posted by Garth on 07/19/12 at 03:53 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I saw this on the internet so it must be true:

For 2011, a team signing a restricted free agent to a contract worth more than $7,835,219 per season loses four first-round picks to the player’s old team.

For a contract worth $6,268,176 or more per year, the acquiring team gives up two first-round picks, one second rounder, and one third.

According to RedWinger, the Habs only have $6mil in cap space. Give Subban on offer sheet for more than $6.3 million and less than $7.8 million. The Habs can’t match and it only costs two first rounders.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 03:55 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Because if you vote against it then every other GM knows it and knows that if they try to sign one of your guys to an offer sheet they can do so without worry that you’re going to retaliate.
And socalwingnut isn’t saying it’s a legal issue but in fact the exact opposite.  Whether it’s legal or illegal is irrelevant to Holland.  He does what he believes in and what he believes is right.
Posted by Garth on 07/19/12 at 02:53 PM ET

Logic and reading comprehension fail. As I mentioned above, Carolina signed Federov to an offer sheet that the Wings matched. So teams are willing to sign the Wings’ RFA even when Ilitch votes for the CBA.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 03:58 PM ET

Avatar

Aks yourself something: do you think he knew what was being offered by other GMs when he made his offer?  He adjusted his offer when it was appropriate to do so, and by all accounts he was among the last two teams who were in on landing Suter.

I don’t know what went down in this particular negotiation, but yeah, I think so. Holland offers $90, the agent says “another team offered $98”, Holland makes his move. Or Holland simply says “I just lost the best defenseman ever, and I’m $17-fricking-million dollars under the cap; whatever another team offered, I’ll top it”.

My point is, I won’t keep saying it wasn’t over money, when even the money would land Suter in Minnesota.

Posted by Herm from the office on 07/19/12 at 04:13 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

I saw this on the internet so it must be true:

Well the numbers are off, but it’s mostly true.


  $1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
  Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
  Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
  Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
  Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
  Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
  Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

Source

So you could offer up to $6.7M for PK Subban (who isn’t worth that much) and only give up one 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd.

Of course, that all assumed the Habs wouldn’t just match it (thanks to the offseason 10% cap cushion) and then find other ways to dump salary

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 04:27 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

So you could offer up to $6.7M for PK Subban (who isn’t worth that much) and only give up one 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 03:27 PM ET

I wonder if this isn’t at the heart of all the FA discussions had by the Wings ownership and front office staff. How much is it worth to keep the 21 year playoff streak alive? Or is it better to miss the playoffs for a couple of years and use the draft to get better access to talent.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 05:01 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Honestly, I’d probably rather overpay Subban and hope that Nyquist, Tatar, Brunner, and others can performs superbly than to see the wings tank for a better chance at a no-miss core.

The kids’ numbers certainly are impressive.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 05:08 PM ET

socalwingnut's avatar

You missed the whole point. This isn’t “legal” or “illegal” issue.

That is not my point at all. I never said it was an issue of whether it’s legal or not.  Of course it is within the terms of the agreement. Perhaps I should have said because it was allowed (thus the word “legal” in quotes) under the current CBA.

What I am saying is that the RFA (and offer sheet) aspect seems to be a matter of principle with the Red Wings. Whether it’s legal or illegal is not the main thrust of my point.

All I’m getting at is within the original context of whether or not Holland will sign someone to an offer sheet. Sure they can, but they probably never will.

Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 05:12 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Honestly, I’d probably rather overpay Subban and hope that Nyquist, Tatar, Brunner, and others can performs superbly than to see the wings tank for a better chance at a no-miss core.
The kids’ numbers certainly are impressive.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 04:08 PM ET

John Carlson from the Caps is also a RFA and is similar to Subban. So there are options out there for Kenny if he’s willing to make use of them.

This off season will be the biggest failure in Red Wings’ front office history since the hiring of Ned Harkness, if Kenny doesn’t get the team some help on defense.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 05:22 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

What I am saying is that the RFA (and offer sheet) aspect seems to be a matter of principle with the Red Wings. Whether it’s legal or illegal is not the main thrust of my point.

All I’m getting at is within the original context of whether or not Holland will sign someone to an offer sheet. Sure they can, but they probably never will.
Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 04:12 PM ET

What principle? I fail to see any moral or ethical dilemma here, and that’s not because I’m an attorney wink. There is nothing unfair about the process; teams know exactly what it will cost them in terms of compensation to get an RFA. I read somewhere (I think Paul’s link on available RFA’s that only seven offer sheets have been signed under the current CBA. That isn’t standing on principle, that’s collusion.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 05:33 PM ET

Avatar

What principle? I fail to see any moral or ethical dilemma here, and that’s not because I’m an attorney

Funny how the two guys complaining that Detroit doesn’t hand out offer sheets are lawyers.

Posted by Herm from the office on 07/19/12 at 05:38 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Has Holland ever said he has a moral problem with offer sheets?  I know it’s not his M.O., but not wanting to appear as a dickhole isn’t necessarily a moral dilemma. Even sociopaths recognize the value in that.

Not saying it’s right or wrong to avoid offer sheets, I’m just not sure I’d call it a moral imperative.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 05:44 PM ET

socalwingnut's avatar

but not wanting to appear as a dickhole isn’t necessarily a moral dilemma

But it is standing on principle.

Believe me, I am not an attorney (or a Pharmacist) so I cannot intelligently speak on collusion, etc. and that is not necessarily my point.

I merely inferred from Ms. St. James’ statement that since it wasn’t Holland’s “MO” it must be because there was some sort of principle behind it. 

Really.

Posted by socalwingnut on 07/19/12 at 06:06 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Funny how the two guys complaining that Detroit doesn’t hand out offer sheets are lawyers.
Posted by Herm from the office on 07/19/12 at 04:38 PM ET

The NHL is a game, Herm, and not just on the ice. The game is also played by the front offices and the the rules are determined by the CBA. Both sides agreed to the RFA rules, so why not use them? Why didn’t Holland go after Weber? He would have either taken a top tier D-man from a division rival or, if Bubba matched the offer, financially crippled the division rival that knocked the Wings out of the playoffs. Sounds like a win either way to me.

In any given competitive endeavor, the rules are always your best friend. Know them. Sleep with them. Worship them. Most of your competition will not, and that gives you an edge.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 06:29 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

but not wanting to appear as a dickhole isn’t necessarily a moral dilemma. Even sociopaths recognize the value in that.
Not saying it’s right or wrong to avoid offer sheets, I’m just not sure I’d call it a moral imperative.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 04:44 PM ET

How is playing by the rules being a dickhole, especially where the contestants wrote the rules?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/19/12 at 06:31 PM ET

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@ J.J. from Kansas

Those figures are for RFA signed to offer sheets. To determine what compensation applies take the total contract value and divide by the LESSER of 5 or # of years of the contract.

So if you sign someone to over a 41M deal you have to give up 4x 1st round picks.

Posted by dca from in Mich on 07/19/12 at 06:33 PM ET

awould's avatar

I’d love to see Subban or Carlson in a Red Wings jersey. It’s a pie-in-the-sky dream though. It will never happen because both Montreal and Washington could easily match anything realistic.

Posted by awould on 07/19/12 at 06:36 PM ET

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@ vfsvfl

Actually the Mule and Z deals are similar to these types of deals in that towards the end of them those players become very valuable to cap floor teams (what you called less-moneyed clubs) when their actual salary is much less than their cap hits.

For Mule his cap hit is 3.95M and his actual salary becomes 3.5M in 2016 and 2M in 2017 and 1M in 2018 and beyond.

For Z his cap hit is 6.08M and his actual salary becomes 3.35M in 2018 and 1M in 2019 and beyond.

It’s the same reason why Tim Thomas (who said he will accept a suspension) and not play has any worth this year (his cap hit is counted but his actually salary is less—in his case $0).

Posted by dca from in Mich on 07/19/12 at 06:43 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Posted by dca from in Mich on 07/19/12 at 05:33 PM ET

Yeah, I know the rule for RFA compensation and the 5-year limit plan.

How is playing by the rules being a dickhole, especially where the contestants wrote the rules?

Being a dickhole and appearing to be a dickhole aren’t the same thing.  There’s nothing against the rules about playing multiplayer Goldeneye as OddJob, but your friends are going to call you a dickhole if you do it.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/19/12 at 06:51 PM ET

statelouis26's avatar

This is the same old bit. “well at least we tried. Kenny and Jim were were wOrking the phones with a case of red bull nearby.” at some point trying and ending up empty handed every time doesn’t cut it. I rather the wings not go bonkers for the sake of making a trade but to say this offseason was disappointment is an understatement. Reciting kenny is working the phones doesn’t make me feel better about the fact we lost stuart and lidstrom and added garage parts like Samuelsson, tootoo, and Quincey to the tune of 10M. Not to mention it probably equates to losing a leg in the pool and using a bandaid to keep things going. Unless another significant move is made by the wings this could be a down season. It wont be fun and easy, but it’s the end by a long shot.

Posted by statelouis26 from Detroit, MI on 07/19/12 at 07:32 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 07/19/12 at 05:29 PM ET

I meant you and me, dude, I agree with you.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 07/19/12 at 09:54 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

How is playing by the rules being a dickhole, especially where the contestants wrote the rules?

This is just social reality.  Burke won’t deal with Lowe.  Are they really dickholes?  Probably, but not because of their ‘legal’ actions.  But the point is simply that this amounts to burning bridges.  Is Holmgren on the phone talking other trades with Poile tonight?  Cause these teams have been cozy in the past…..but somehow I don’t think we’ll see anything else ever transpire between them ever again, except offer sheets.

There’s nothing against the rules about playing multiplayer Goldeneye as OddJob, but your friends are going to call you a dickhole if you do it.

Exactly.  If you are going to mess with my visual enjoyment, then I ain’t leaving you that body armour.

It’s not morality, it’ practicality.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 07/19/12 at 11:36 PM ET

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In my opinion Ken Holland sucks. Many gm’s could do wonders with an owner like the Red Wings have an unlimited spending power. Since the cap we have won ONE cup. Considering the talent already here I believe that is underachieving. So last year we lost Rafalski…replaced him with White. Though White is alright he certainly isnt Rafalski.Now we lost Lidstrom AND Stuart…Hollands answer is grossly overpay Kyle Quincey? lol. And we lost Hudler….but hey Hollands brought in Samuelson and Tootoo lol. I wish we could have Steve Yzerman as our GM because Hollands simply not getting it done,. Last year Babcock stated the obvious…that we needed more depth and Holland did nothing before the trade deadline and Detroit paid for it in the playoffs. Should Holland have tried getting Weber harder? absolutely. Nash? why the hell not? Instead he makes a few offers on some ufa that he could not land. Doan isnt going anywhere so thats another waste of time. Semin he should try hard to grab but he isnt. Instead of grossly overpaying an unproven and unimpressive defensemen in Quincey he could have used that near 4 million towards trying to lure Weber away from nashville. Sure looks as if Phillys GM got it done. A GMS job is to fill the roster and as much as I love the Redwings they CERTAINLY arent winning any cups as is. And it is completely Hollands fault.

Posted by adam99 on 07/21/12 at 04:10 AM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.