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Red Wings wining and dining news: on Boyle, Iginla and Alfredsson

Updated 3x at 6:17 PM: Some of this might be repetitious for KK readers, but here's what I've found in terms of Red Wings-related "wining and dining" news today.

First, the Free Press's Helene St. James reported this about Dan Boyle...

Second, if you didn't read ESPN's Pierre LeBrun's Rumblings, here's what he found from speaking to both Boyle and his agent, George Bazos:

Getting a two-year deal is very important and Bazos is confident he can make it happen for Boyle, who turns 38 on July 12. Contracts signed by players who are 35 and over count against the salary cap regardless of whether the players complete them or not. That’s why there’s risk involved.

"I still think he can really help a team, he’s still a great skater and a terrific character guy," said one Eastern Conference team executive Wednesday.

Boyle indeed remains a terrific skater and puck mover, so two years doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch.

"It’s not to say that I can’t play any longer than that, but mentally and physically I’ve committed myself to two years. I feel great right now," Boyle said. "The only thing I know for sure is that I have two very good years left in me and then I can see after that."

While neither Boyle nor Bazos would divulge which teams had already shown interest, other sources around the league confirmed Toronto, Detroit and the New York Rangers were among the several teams that have shown interest in Boyle.

One source described the Maple Leafs' interest as "serious." And the Rangers are also very interested, especially pending the outcome of talks with UFA D-man Anton Stralman.

LeBrun continues with other news...

And third, a reader asked me a question on Twitter last night that I had to consider seriously: would the Wings possibly go after Jarome Iginla--assuming that the Boston Bruins don't re-sign the 36-year-old forward--and then, if Daniel Alfredsson is, as Mike Babcock suggested  and Ken Holland intimated, going to continue to evaluate whether he wants to return after July 1st...

Could the team end up signing Iginla to a moderate-salary-plus-next-year-bonuses deal, and bring Daniel Alfredsson into camp on a pro try-out?

Yes, I could see that happening. I'd also be okay with that, especially if it's Alfredsson over Cleary.

Anyway, TSN's Darren Dreger has this to say about Alfredsson (18 goals, 31 assists and 49 points in 68 games) and Iginla (30 goals, 31 assists, 61 points in 78 games, and a +34):

Iginla and Alfredsson Drawn Together: Jarome Iginla and Daniel Alfredsson could have an impact on each other's future, depending on whether they both get what they want, which is to sign where they played last year. Iginla wants to stay with the Boston Bruins and there's talk they're negotiating on both a two-year deal and perhaps a one-year deal maybe very similar to the contract he signed with the Bruins last year with a cap hit of $1.8 million with a bonus structure that deeply impacted the Bruins. If they can't get a deal done in Boston, then the Detroit Red Wings are among the teams that are keenly interested in Iginla as well. The Red Wings also have interest in Alfredsson, who is believed to be coming back but he hasn't made it 100 per cent certain yet. He works on his own timeframe, similar to Teemu Selanne but I'm also told he's willing to be flexible.

Quick update: Also:

1. Kyle Woodlief's draft chat on USA Today is available in digested form;

2. The Globe and Mail's James Mirtle profiled 10 free agent-to-be defensemen, and the Wings are probably interested in four of them:

1. Matt Niskanen: It was a breakout year for the 27-year-old in Pittsburgh, as with Kris Letang out for long stretches, he logged 21 minutes a night and put up 46 points, both highs among available D this off-season. Colorado could be one fit here, but the reality is his asking price is going to skyrocket: If Nikita Nikitin is getting $4.5-million in this market, Niskanen’s looking at $6-million plus and plenty of term.

2. Dan Boyle: Part of the Sharks housecleaning, Boyle still has some game left, but teams are going to have to be wary of his age (he turns 38 shortly after free agency opens) and price tag (mainly on the term side). Boyle’s a right shot that can quarterback a power play so some contending team is going to be interested.

3. Tom Gilbert: Left on the free agent bargain heap last season before eventually signing in Florida for just $900,000, Gilbert is due a raise after helping anchor the Panthers top pairing all season. There aren’t many solid possession D available for what he’ll cost, and his work very well may be overlooked given how much Florida struggled to win games.

4. Anton Stralman: One of the playoffs big time beneficiaries when it comes to July 1. GMs around the league saw Stralman could play top four minutes on a contending team given that’s what he did with the Rangers, pairing with Marc Staal to shutdown Sidney Crosby and other top lines. Not much of a point producer, Stralman is a smooth skating puck mover and after all the uncertainty in his career, he’s looking for security. Could be a shocking number here.

3. The Sporting News's Dimitri Filipovic Corsi'd the Eastern Conference's teams. Here are his results for the Wings:

DETROIT RED WINGS

Suffice to say, the Red Wings could be an absolute nightmare next season. With David Legwand, Mikael Samuelsson, Todd Bertuzzi and Dan Cleary (a combined 135 years old) coming off of the books, all of the cultivating of young talent that Ken Holland, the Red Wings and “Gutalytics” have done in recent years could reach full bloom next season.

Here are the zone-adjusted rates of those under-25 forwards: Tomas Tatar (56.3%), Gustav Nyquist (56.1%), Riley Sheahan (55.7%), Tomas Jurco (54.2%). Those four, in comparison, are a combined 90 years old. The future is pretty, pretty, pretty bright in Detroit. Especially if they can get more than 45 games out of either Datsyuk or Zetterberg. They’re aspiring to greater things.

 

Update #2: For what it's worth, USA Today's Kevin Allen's Mock Draft has the Wings taking the following player...

15. Detroit Red Wings: Center Dylan Larkin (U.S. under-18). The dependable two-way forward would fit perfectly into Detroit's puck-possession offense. He's a good skater.

And Yahoo Sports' Buzzing the Net's draft has the Wings taking Kevin Fiala, who TSN's Bob McKenzie pegs as the 15th-best prospect available.

 

Update #3: Ken Holland the good, discussing the wining and dining period, from the Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness...

“I like it,” Wings general manager Ken Holland said in a phone interview. “It’s excellent for the players.”

The time to “wine and dine” free agents began Wednesday. Teams can begin signing players on July 1.

“Before you’d get to signing day and the player and team would have to make a decision in like an hour or two,” Holland said. “Now teams have the opportunity to let players know they have interest and to tell them how they would fit in on our team.

“It’s an opportunity to see what’s out there, to talk to players we got some interest in, let them know what we’re thinking,” Holland added. “It’s an opportunity to sell your program.”

And Ken Holland the bad:

“Ideally, we’ll make a move on the back end and add one more forward,” Holland said. “We’re going to wait until June 30 to see if we’re going to do anything with our guys.”

Defenseman Kyle Quincey, who’s unrestricted, is expected to hit the open market. Alfredsson and Daniel Cleary, who was promised a possible extension after signing a one-year deal on the first day of training camp, could both re-signed as well.

“Dan Cleary is a guy that when he signed here last year for a one-year deal, we had conversations beyond one year because he had contract offers or three years from a couple of teams,” Holland said.

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Comments

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TKShreve's avatar

Um…... I think I’ll pass on a bloated boyle. Thanks though.

Posted by TKShreve from East Uptown on 06/25/14 at 03:33 PM ET

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I don’t really have anything against Boyle I just think that, with recent history in mind, Detroit’s attempts at “bridges” simply don’t end up working out.

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 03:50 PM ET

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Just go for Niskanen and offer the dude 6.5mil per year at 4 years… we need a good right handed D. Stop losing out on Good defenseman.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 03:55 PM ET

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Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 03:55 PM ET

This, please.

Make him an offer he can’t refuse.

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 03:57 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

Stop losing out on good defensemen is a fantastic point. I think Boyle can/will help but I want more. I want Kenny to swing a trade to acquire a top 2 dman asap.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:05 PM ET

SK77's avatar

This, please.

Make him an offer he can’t refuse.

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 03:57 PM ET

It’s going to have to be 7-8 years then, for an unproven (?) player.

Posted by SK77 on 06/25/14 at 04:06 PM ET

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Quality free agents are expensive.  It’s the old supply and demand, if the Wings can’t afford it or don’t think it’s worth it then they shouldn’t even tease.  This is why I get frustrated that the Wings can’t swing any deals via trade that is their only way to get better when you have Dan Boyle getting heavy interest that means the picking are slim and expensive.

Posted by bababooey on 06/25/14 at 04:15 PM ET

henrymalredo's avatar

Just go for Niskanen and offer the dude 6.5mil per year at 4 years… we need a good right handed D. Stop losing out on Good defenseman.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 03:55 PM ET

You do know that Niskanen and his agent would laugh at that offer, right?

Posted by henrymalredo from Lansing on 06/25/14 at 04:16 PM ET

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It’s going to have to be 7-8 years then, for an unproven (?) player.

It can’t be an 8 year deal, and he’s going to get seven year offers from everyone else who is interested and I don’t know how you can say he’s unproven.  His point totals have improved in each year since he left Dallas (after having a pretty solid start to his career in the first place) and his advanced stats are phenomenal.

Unless “be over 35” is the only criteria for being “proven” then I don’t know how he is unproven.

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 04:18 PM ET

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I will be AMAZED if Niskanen gets 7-8 Years. that’s usually on in the “2nd” big contract signings if they’re good. For example, When someone like Toews or Kane signs their first contract it might be like 5 years. Their 2ND contract coming up this year, will most likely be in the 8 year range or like Suter did for 12 years. Niskanen is NOT going to get 8 years, if he does, let the team take their chances… Not to mention there’s probably a lot of Agents telling their players… “Hey, don’t take that long of a contract, salary cap can increase, and teams could start paying their players BIG time..” Look at PK Subban, that dude might get a 12mil/yr contract or something. There’s a new “era” of hockey rising I believe. Someone like Nathan Mickonnin will WIN BIG in the next few years that he signs a 2nd deal. Maybe Danny Dekyser is like Ryan Suter in 3 years and he earns 9mil a year. Point is. If Niskanen asks for 8 years, we don’t want him.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 04:19 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

What George has learned: if the Wings were to make elevendy twelve UFA signings and trades, people would still be upset. “Not good enough.”

The team can’t f’ing sign everyone and trade for f’ing everyone.

Some of you will have to decide whether being a fan of the actual Wings team on the ice is more fun than bitching about what they *should* be doing all the *#$%@& time. Otherwise, get another *#$%@& hobby.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:21 PM ET

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It can’t be an 8 year deal, and he’s going to get seven year offers from everyone else who is interested and I don’t know how you can say he’s unproven.  His point totals have improved in each year since he left Dallas (after having a pretty solid start to his career in the first place) and his advanced stats are phenomenal.

Unless “be over 35” is the only criteria for being “proven” then I don’t know how he is unproven.

I actually don’t Disagree with this. I suppose he is “proven”. But I’ll ask this, do we want Niskanen at 6.5 or 7 mil for 7 years? That’s pushing it IMHO.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 04:24 PM ET

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I’ve decided I’m cool with Tom Gilbert and I believe the team should pursue him. He’s never had the chance to play on really good teams (Edmonton after their 2006 Cup run), Minnesota (before they were a playoff team) and Florida.

I think with the Wings’ emerging and existing talent, he could be a very, very good complementary piece on the second pair and on the powerplay. I think he’s always played on bad teams and flown under the radar. He could be had at much less risk than Niskanen and look at their careers side-by-side. Gilbert’s had three 30+ point seasons and one at 28 points (and two others at 20+ points). Niskanen has two 30+ point seasons and two others that were over 20 points. Gilbert’s career high (2008-2009) was 45 points; Niskanen’s last year was 46. That said, Gilbert has a more proven track record, in my eyes.

Both had good 2013-2014 seasons (although Niskanen had 46 points to Gilbert’s 28 - but you must consider the offense that Pittsburgh had compared to the offense Florida had - there’s no comparison). I haven’t looked at the advanced stats, so if Niskanen is way ahead on those, I apologize. The point being, if you had to give Niskanen 6 years at $6M per season, are you really getting better value for the money than Gilbert at $3M for 3 years?

Posted by VitoLambruski on 06/25/14 at 04:27 PM ET

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But I’ll ask this, do we want Niskanen at 6.5 or 7 mil for 7 years?

To me the answer to that question is the same as the answer to this one:

Do you want the best chance to improve the team?

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 04:19 PM ET

UFAs are not RFAs.

The big UFAs from last year (except the 35+ contracts) all seem to have gotten 5-7 years.  Bolland, Clarkson, Weiss, Filppula, Levavalier, Mike Smith, Horton, Clowe.

That’s the reality.

If Niskanen asks for 8 years, we don’t want him.

Well, he can’t get 8, but if he wants 7 why wouldn’t we want him?  A guy on the upswing of his career, right at the beginning of his prime while not having to go through the pains of a young defenseman finding his way in the league?  Yeah, why would we want him?

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 04:29 PM ET

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Just sign a Viable D man!!! What is this? We have Kindl, Lashoff, (Q is bye bye lol) So actual noteworthy D man… Kronner, E52 and DD. That’s not a very solid lineup. We just need more D.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 04:37 PM ET

Mistercristo's avatar

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:21 PM ET

This should be part of The Malik Report’s Mission Statement.

In my life (and I’d guess countless others), there are near-infinite ways to be exposed to bitching.  Constantly doing it about something that should be enjoyable, and that someone has absolutely no control over, seems like a colossal waste of mental resources and time - both the bitcher’s and mine.

If the sport of hockey - and more specifically, the Detroit Red Wings - elicits nothing but negativity and bitching, then yeah, get another *#$%@& hobby.

Posted by Mistercristo from Cameron Frye's garage, circa 1987 on 06/25/14 at 04:39 PM ET

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Oh I forgot Smitty. He could turn out to be a good player in the next several years. Not sure. Honestly though, I would prefer Niskanen at 49mil for 7 years than to do nothing.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 04:40 PM ET

Jordan_NOHS's avatar

The team can’t f’ing sign everyone and trade for f’ing everyone.

Some of you will have to decide whether being a fan of the actual Wings team on the ice is more fun than bitching about what they *should* be doing all the *#$%@& time. Otherwise, get another *#$%@& hobby.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:21 PM ET

YES!!!!!!! About time! People need to pull their heads out of their a$$ win or lose this is the greatest franchise in the greatest sport there is. Love them or leave them, I’ll personally be having a blast watching guys like Mantha, Nyquist and Jurco light up the league in the next few years.

Posted by Jordan_NOHS from Detroit, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:40 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

I get the criticism. Criticism is totally valid. That’s fine. But when it’s nothing but vitriol, hate and anger, is self-and-other-loathing the only way to be a sports fan?

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:44 PM ET

SK77's avatar

’s going to have to be 7-8 years then, for an unproven (?) player.

It can’t be an 8 year deal, and he’s going to get seven year offers from everyone else who is interested and I don’t know how you can say he’s unproven.  His point totals have improved in each year since he left Dallas (after having a pretty solid start to his career in the first place) and his advanced stats are phenomenal.

Unless “be over 35” is the only criteria for being “proven” then I don’t know how he is unproven.

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 04:18 PM ET

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=87879

Interesting track record. Definitely regressed in 09-10. Debatably worse/better in 10-11. First full season in Pittsburgh failed to put up as many points or +/- as his rookie season. In 2012-13 was on pace to do as well as his rookie season, but not surpass his sophomore year. Then BLEW UP last year and matched his sophomore stats.

I’m just looking at basic stats. But I don’t see how he’s improved every year since leaving Dallas. That said, he’d probably do well in Detroit, produce with that right hand shot, and be a good addition.

Don’t know him well enough to justify the 7 years @ $7.5 million though. Maybe it happens?

Posted by SK77 on 06/25/14 at 04:48 PM ET

SK77's avatar

I get the criticism. Criticism is totally valid. That’s fine. But when it’s nothing but vitriol, hate and anger, is self-and-other-loathing the only way to be a sports fan?

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:44 PM ET

You just described the Interwebs, not sports fans. I have way more interesting and productive conversations about hockey offline.

Guys who are constant dicks on the Interwebs are here because no one wants to share a beer & chat with them, or they get straight up punched in the face for being a dickwad when they pull that crap and aren’t behind a keyboard.

Posted by SK77 on 06/25/14 at 04:50 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Some of you will have to decide whether being a fan of the actual Wings team on the ice is more fun than bitching about what they *should* be doing all the *#$%@& time. Otherwise, get another *#$%@& hobby.

Why?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/25/14 at 04:52 PM ET

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I’m just looking at basic stats. But I don’t see how he’s improved every year since leaving Dallas.

The year he left Dallas (split the year between Dallas and Pittsburgh) he had 10 points, the next year he had 21, the next year he had 14—but that was the strike shortened year, so his 82-game pace was 28 points—and this past year he had 46.

10 < 21 < 28 < 46

Posted by Garth on 06/25/14 at 04:56 PM ET

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That’s fine. But when it’s nothing but vitriol, hate and anger, is self-and-other-loathing the only way to be a sports fan?

I’m curious George, was that posted because of something someone posted on this article? We just Chattin about the wings cuz! smile

Posted by Pasha1277 on 06/25/14 at 04:57 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Just a larger thought.

I get that fandom is like marriage, that criticism and disagreement are part of it. But if all you feel is that you hate what’s happening…

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:58 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

is self-and-other-loathing the only way to be a sports fan?

There are lots of ways to be a sports fan, George. I don’t see a lot of those loathers telling me to get another *#$%@& hobby because they don’t like how I choose to fan though.

I like being overly apologetic of the team sometimes. I like being more patient with some of the players than it seems others are and I like being more down on prospects than it seems others are.

and I like discussing all of that, even with the people who have the tact of a cudgel.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/25/14 at 04:58 PM ET

awould's avatar

I like Niskanen. 7 years is a long time though. He’s proven he has ability but has not proven he can muster that consistently. His high draft pick and up/down career have me feel optimistic that if he settled into the right spot, he’d excel.

My only pause is the whole “bridge” contract idea to allow for the prospects to develop and pave a way for them to have a roster spot.

But I do know that we only have a couple years left w/ Datsyuk/Zetterberg so I’m inclined to take a shot.

Niskanen or Bust! If you don’t agree with me, you are the worst person ever and a total idiot. Is that how it’s done, George?

Posted by awould on 06/25/14 at 05:05 PM ET

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Some of you will have to decide whether being a fan of the actual Wings team on the ice is more fun than bitching about what they *should* be doing all the *#$%@& time. Otherwise, get another *#$%@& hobby.

Why?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/25/14 at 04:52 PM ET

Exactly.

No one here is asking Ken Holland to trade or sign everyone. What we are asking is that he make a damned effort. Or at least make it APPEAR that he’s making an effort. Aside from the Suter and Parise attempts, I can’t think of an instance in which the Wings have seemed like a team trying to get the very best players available. Ken Holland has to show the Wings fan base that he’s ALL IN. The complacency for mediocre signings the past few years are not the standard the Wings should hold themselves to.

Posted by MotorCityHoff on 06/25/14 at 05:08 PM ET

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Just a larger thought.

I get that fandom is like marriage, that criticism and disagreement are part of it. But if all you feel is that you hate what’s happening…

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 04:58 PM ET

I think you’re confusing frustration with hate, George. I don’t think any of us HATE what’s going on, but we are FRUSTRATED with what’s going on because we LOVE the Red Wings and aren’t satisfied with the direction Holland and Co. are taking the team.

There’s no wrong way to be a fan.

Posted by MotorCityHoff on 06/25/14 at 05:14 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

The line can be really thin, and when you cover this stuff for a living and that line fades, it makes you wonder why you’re putting so much effort into making people angry.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 05:15 PM ET

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The line can be really thin, and when you cover this stuff for a living and that line fades, it makes you wonder why you’re putting so much effort into making people angry.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 05:15 PM ET

When you’re in the reporting/blogging field, you’re bound to make people angry. That’s just how it goes, but I don’t think you’re making people angry, George. THE TEAM is making people angry because they’re not doing what we want. Yes, some of our expectations are unreasonable and unrealistic. On the flip side, we shouldn’t have to support every move our team makes because it’s our team.

Posted by MotorCityHoff on 06/25/14 at 05:19 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

I don’t support every move the team makes, every coaching decision, you name it. I’m a fan as well. I just find the over-examination of every little thing…Well it’s like trying to please someone who wouldn’t be happy with his or her own job if they were the GM and the team won the Cup. Or it certainly feels like it.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 06/25/14 at 05:23 PM ET

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Pens just hired a coach. Do not know much about the guy, but I know it’s very important for Niskanen. Curious if he liked the hiring. Is this the coach who will “help” keeping Niskanen in Pittsburgh?

Posted by VPalmer on 06/25/14 at 05:24 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

What we are asking is that he make a damned effort. Or at least make it APPEAR that he’s making an effort. Aside from the Suter and Parise attempts, I can’t think of an instance in which the Wings have seemed like a team trying to get the very best players available. Ken Holland has to show the Wings fan base that he’s ALL IN. The complacency for mediocre signings the past few years are not the standard the Wings should hold themselves to.

I’ll point out that while I don’t agree with George’s idea that if you’re not happy with the organization you should get the *#$%@& off the wagon, I also don’t agree with the idea that Holland isn’t making an effort to improve the Wings.

This is the reality of what the Wings are trying to do: They don’t want to tank and pick up blossoming superstars so they’re trying to grow their own from lesser stock. They want to be a contender year after year in a league that’s built to try and stifle that kind of long-term success.

It’s a method based on gambles and Holland has lost a bunch of those lately.  I don’t think that means he isn’t trying.  I also think there’s a need to be a bit more pragmatic about the idea of trying to get “the best players available” because the means to do that which doesn’t include tanking for top draft picks are fraught with other kinds of dangers:

1. Giving up a player who’s going to be so dominant in a few years that trading him away for whatever you got RIGHT NOW makes you look like a dumbass.
2. Paying a guy so much that you lose the ability to keep enough supporting staff around him, keeping you just as mediocre as you would have been without him but without the flexibility to get better.

I don’t think Holland has done a great job in the last few years. I think too many of his gambles haven’t paid off and I think that hindsight clearly tells us that he should have gambled in other directions in other areas.  If I thought for an instant that Holland isn’t actually TRYING though? I’d have been all over this board and every other place on the internet that would hear me calling for him to be fired.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/25/14 at 05:25 PM ET

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No one here is asking Ken Holland to trade or sign everyone. What we are asking is that he make a damned effort. Or at least make it APPEAR that he’s making an effort. Aside from the Suter and Parise attempts, I can’t think of an instance in which the Wings have seemed like a team trying to get the very best players available. Ken Holland has to show the Wings fan base that he’s ALL IN. The complacency for mediocre signings the past few years are not the standard the Wings should hold themselves to.

Posted by MotorCityHoff on 06/25/14 at 05:08 PM ET

This is what’s been the foundation of my increasing frustration with Ken Holland. It’s continual low-risk, no-balls moves for years. And then it’s a first-rounder for Kyle Quincey at the deadline. It’s Jarnkrok and a second-rounder for six weeks of David Legwand. During the time when he can make rational, longer-term decisions at relatively reasonable prices (compared to trade deadline prices), all’s quiet on the western front. It’s Mike Samuelsson, Dan Cleary and Kindl. Then, when it’s the trade deadline, it’s the opposite - reckless spending on marginal assets.

I am cool with rolling the dice on Niskanen, but I don’t think he’s really a 40+ point defenseman on a team that doesn’t have the best player in the world and another guy who is not far behind. To pay $6M+ per season for 6-8 years for that guy isn’t something I’ll flip out about or be overly excited about either. I’d rather spend the cash on Tom Gilbert, who I believe will deliver similar production at less cost and tenure. That said, if it were Niskanen at $6M for 7 years or nothing, I’d be happy with Niskanen here. Not sure what $$$ I’d change my mind at, though.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 06/25/14 at 05:29 PM ET

awould's avatar

I also don’t agree with the idea that Holland isn’t making an effort to improve the Wings.

I think he’s making an effort, that’s for sure. I think the anti-Holland is maybe Ray Shero - he ran his team like a ponzi scheme, always needing to make one more move to stay ahead of his last one.

I liked the Weiss signing at the time. Still might work out, probably won’t. Alfie deal was good.

Samuelsson, Cleary…. not so much. First rounder for Quincey, overpaid, underwhelmed. Swinging for the fences w/ Suter with no real back up plan was a failure.

Giving up a player who’s going to be so dominant in a few years that trading him away for whatever you got RIGHT NOW makes you look like a dumbass.

Who advocates for this? I think giving up prospects (potential) for a known quantity is a fair deal. The risk is if the prospect exceeds the perceived potential. Dealing from a position of strength should mitigate this, and I think Holland hasn’t done very well with this. He treats the prospects like an old lonely lady treats her set of Hummel figurines… they’re all too precious and she can’t bear to part with any of them no matter what she could get on ebay.

For all the talk about the glut of prospects and the clogged pipeline… the answer is to trade some of these guys and fill a need. Too many awesome young D? Trade one for a pick and some depth…. or whatever. Get value before another Quincey walks away for nothing and we end up trading a 1st rounder to get them back.

Posted by awould on 06/25/14 at 05:36 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

Man!!! Nothing’s happened yet and we’re at each other’s throats.

Can’t wait for the transaction to actually happen!

I’ll be proactive and say ” I hate that move” & ” really question the length of the deal”

Posted by Down River Dan on 06/25/14 at 05:48 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Who advocates for this? I think giving up prospects (potential) for a known quantity is a fair deal. The risk is if the prospect exceeds the perceived potential. Dealing from a position of strength should mitigate this, and I think Holland hasn’t done very well with this. He treats the prospects like an old lonely lady treats her set of Hummel figurines… they’re all too precious and she can’t bear to part with any of them no matter what she could get on ebay.

nobody intentionally advocates for that because if we knew the guy was a can’t-miss guy, then we know for certain they shouldn’t trade him.

I was pointing out that it’s a risk of doing these “taking a chance” kind of moves.  Remember, the rumor is that Holland offered Tatar, Nyquist, AND a pick for Bouwmeester.  You think we’d be happy now if he’d have made that move?

Obviously everybody wants Holland to make all the right trades and he clearly hasn’t done that.  I’m simply saying that just because a trade didn’t happen doesn’t mean that Holland didn’t try to make one.

There’s also the problem where people see a trade that happened elsewhere and think that’s exactly what the Red Wings could have offered to have gotten that deal, which isn’t true.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/25/14 at 06:07 PM ET

awould's avatar

I’m simply saying that just because a trade didn’t happen doesn’t mean that Holland didn’t try to make one.

There’s also the problem where people see a trade that happened elsewhere and think that’s exactly what the Red Wings could have offered to have gotten that deal, which isn’t true.

Absolutely. Some folks live in La-la land.

Posted by awould on 06/25/14 at 06:21 PM ET

perfection's avatar

Posted by awould on 06/25/14 at 05:36 PM ET

Couple things… I’m with you missing out on Suter was the big failure. I definitely don’t hold Holland responsible as he, Illitch, and Babcock pulled out all the stops. They went all in for sure and the team paid the price for a couple years when it didn’t work out. But we shouldn’t pretend for a minute it wasn’t the right thing to do, despite it handcuffing us from any good plan B’s. Holland spent the two seasons previous managing our cap space precisely to go all in on Suter. To the team’s credit, by all accounts they were genuinely a close runner-up to getting him and sure enough, he’s been a Norris candidate every year since. You just don’t get Norris candidates on the open market anymore, so with our own perennial Norris candidate retiring, they had to go for Suter. We’d be a much different team of those guys chose the Wings.

But whatever… that’s not what happened and because the organization is as good at what they do as they are, sure enough, despite not having missed the playoffs, we have a flock of studs coming up on D that everyone is understandably excited for. But when you say this:

For all the talk about the glut of prospects and the clogged pipeline… the answer is to trade some of these guys and fill a need. Too many awesome young D? Trade one for a pick and some depth…. or whatever. Get value before another Quincey walks away for nothing and we end up trading a 1st rounder to get them back. 

the problem is that at their age, we just aren’t quite sure yet which, if any, of these guys will keep developing into a future Norris candidate or whether they’ll peak at Quincey’s level. Losing guys like Quincey for nothing is a hell of a lot better than trading your future Lidstrom away. You can sign Quincey caliber guys every July, but getting a Norris contender generally means you either lost so bad you got a top pick, you traded a fortune for one totally risking your future, or you struck gold which is what the Wings have done and I think hope to do again. Not saying we necessarily have that guy, but the team seems really excited about the upsides of all of these guys and I think want to see them develop for the next few years before deciding who are franchise guys.

I really think a Boyle-esque stopgap is the way to go. Kenny probably sees two seasons from now as the next genuine window for the Wings. Not that we won’t be expected to continue making the playoffs and getting a shot (and needed experience), but two seasons from now will be when our kids will be entering their primes and our current leaders will be starting to wind their careers down. That tends to be when you win cups. He understandably doesn’t want to marginally improve us this year at the expense of not maximizing that window.

But that doesn’t mean swapping Dan Boyle for Quincey and adding one or two of our kids won’t make our D a lot better than they were last year. I also feel like DeKeyser might just keep getting better and better. He seems so wise beyond his years already. When his experience catches up to his hockey IQ… man, we might have a future Norris type guy in our lineup already?

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 06/25/14 at 06:25 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.