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The Malik Report

Red Wings quickies: very brief Red-White game summary, Wings-Pens roster and Tatar’s status updated

The "Red" and "White" teams technically tied 3-3 at the Red vs. White game in Traverse City this morning, with Xavier Ouellet registering a goal and an assist, Justin Abdelkader registering a goal and two assists, Henrik Zetterberg registering two assists and Daniel Alfredsson registering a helper, though Mike Babcock was NOT happy with his second line when speaking to the media after the game. There were shootout shooters but none of the goals or non-goals "counted."

If you haven't already seen it, here's the roster for tomorrow's exhibition game between the Red Wings and Pittsburgh Penguins (which will air on WPCW in Pittsburgh...quasi-legal online streams, anyone?)...

Forwards

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader

Cleary-Andersson-Samuelsson

Tatar-Glendening-Ferraro

Mantha-Jarnkrok-Tootoo

Defensemen

DeKeyser-Kindl

Quincey-Smith

Evans-Almquist

Goaltenders

Howard

Mrazek

As such, the Wings-Hawks roster for Tuesday will probably include the Franzen-Weiss-Alfredsson line, the Kronwall-Ericsson pairing and Coreau in the net as the Wings' first cuts included Jake Paterson.

And this is true:

Ditto:

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Comments

Son of Flying Pig's avatar

Looks like folks here will have to find something else to rage against.

Posted by Son of Flying Pig on 09/15/13 at 02:16 PM ET

Avatar

Looks like folks here will have to find something else to rage against

Like how often he gets to play as anchors like Cleary and Samuelsson need to get their ice time.  He is a free agent after this year and if he’s not given a fair chance, don’t you think he may be headed to the KHL?  I do.  It’s a slap in the face to the prospects who have bided their time and have done all that’s been asked to see their ice time go to vintage players whose time has past.

Posted by bababooey on 09/15/13 at 02:21 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

It’s a slap in the face to the prospects who have bided their time and have done all that’s been asked to see their ice time go to vintage players whose time has past.

I’m pretty sure all the prospects get asked not to make a fuss about the higher-ups not agreeing with their self-centric view of where they belong on the depth chart, but Tatar’s done that.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/15/13 at 02:31 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Looks like folks here will have to find something else to rage against.

Posted by Son of Flying Pig on 09/15/13 at 02:16 PM ET

Maybe it’s time to go back to raging about how stupid Helene St. James is and how—no matter how much she wills it—there is absolutely no way Cleary will ever be on the Wings again?

Posted by SK77 on 09/15/13 at 02:36 PM ET

Son of Flying Pig's avatar

I stand corrected; some folks will still rage against this dead horse.

Posted by Son of Flying Pig on 09/15/13 at 02:39 PM ET

perfection's avatar

Tatar is obviously one of the top 14 and he’s 22. This idea that the Cleary signing somehow directly displaces Tatar has been generated by the media alone. There was never any indication from anyone on the Wings that Tatar was on the bubble. It’s been such an absurd over reaction. Even people around here foolishly suggesting that we would actually WAIVE Tatar. Just plain old ignorance.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 09/15/13 at 03:14 PM ET

SK77's avatar

rage against this dead horse.

Posted by Son of Flying Pig on 09/15/13 at 02:39 PM ET

I hear they’re great live.

Posted by SK77 on 09/15/13 at 03:15 PM ET

Avatar

Wait, so it’s a groin injury for Helm now?

How is his back?

Posted by CrimsonPhoenix on 09/15/13 at 03:35 PM ET

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Tatar is obviously one of the top 14 and he’s 22. This idea that the Cleary signing somehow directly displaces Tatar has been generated by the media alone. There was never any indication from anyone on the Wings that Tatar was on the bubble. It’s been such an absurd over reaction. Even people around here foolishly suggesting that we would actually WAIVE Tatar. Just plain old ignorance.

I don’t know which people were saying he was in danger of being waived, but I think the majority of the criticism stems from the idea that his spot within the top 14 is endangered due to Cleary’s signing.  And please, let’s not pretend that it will al get resolved in camp and pre-season, Cleary and probably Samuelsson will be taking valuable icetime away from guys like Tatar and Nyquist.  That is the issue, why GM Holland can’t get over his love affair with all things vintage, why he has to keep re-signing aging vets on the downsides of their careers while the kids sit or get stale.  These kids have paid their dues and deserve at least a legitimate shot at real, legitimate, meaningful minutes and barring an injury, most likely won’t happen.

Posted by bababooey on 09/15/13 at 04:06 PM ET

perfection's avatar

Garth and I had a debate on here the other day where he tried to say because Quincey got waived, somehow that meant it was possible that Tatar will get waived, despite the fact Quincey had no trade value at that time and Tatar does.

Also, you’re simply making an unfounded assumption when you say that Cleary is going to take ice time from Tatar and Nyquist. Babs is going to play whoever he wants however long he wants. 

As I wrote the other day when someone made the same argument as you (which is basically arguing AGAINST depth), if we could magically rid ourselves of EVERY vet you don’t think should be there and replace them with kids, what happens if we start losing? do you start just trading these kids and eventually blow up the team? what happens when certain injuries take place and we all of a sudden have to call up kids further down on the depth chart?

the way we are built now, if we start losing, we can always play the kids more or move them up lines. And now when we have injuries we have mostly-NHL caliber players filling in. Come playoff time there are no roster limitations and the best players will play as much as . So there’s definitely a reasoning behind trying to stay as deep as possible. Tatar is only 22. He will get his chance, that is a certainty. And if competing for ice time with a grizzled old man with a family to support lights a fire under his ass, all the better. 

Yes, there’s a downside for both the team and the young players to play on a team that follows the Wings’ formula, but for you to just pretend like there’s no upside is absurd.

 

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 09/15/13 at 04:31 PM ET

Avatar

I’m not arguing against depth.  I am arguing against signing guys like Samuelsson and Cleary when you have guys like Nyquist and Tatar (to name a few) ready to step up.  Look, if not for the injuries last year, no one would know if any of these guys could handle legitimate roles on a playoff caliber team.  That debate has been settled, so why sign washed up vets and play them over prospect who are clearly better NOW.  That is my issue.  Brendan Smith was ready to play 2 years ago, he should have played with Lidstrom and groomed slowly but he went back to the AHL where his game regressed.  These kids have already done all they can at the AHL level, now is the time to let them play meaningful minutes at the NHL level.  There remains plenty of depth on the farm, guys like Ferraro, Callahan, Sheahan are all on the cusp of being NHL players if not there already.  Detroit has to stop being the retirement home half way house for ex-Wings players and let the kids play for once.  You brag as an organization about your drafting and development, now is the time to showcase it.

Posted by bababooey on 09/15/13 at 04:45 PM ET

perfection's avatar

That’s exactly what they are doing. Developing means not playing the kids until they damn well think they are ready. Thankfully, it’s not fans who are there every day deciding who’s ready and who’s not. As long as we make the playoffs, if Tatar and Nyquist give us a better chance to win than Bert and Sammy, you can damn well bet that Babs will give them the ice time. But those kids aren’t entitled to anything but an opportunity to earn first a roster spot and then ice time. The more vets they have to get through, the better. Competition breeds greatness. Entitlement doesn’t. Again, it IS what organizational depth is all about. You (and those making your same argument) are the only ones who have already decided who’s making the team and who’s playing how long. The coach hasn’t made those decisions and will be making based on actual HOCKEY which is how it should be made. And the harder those decisions are, the better shape your club is in. You should be grateful we aren’t the kind of team who HAS to play two full lines of under 25 year olds.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 09/15/13 at 05:13 PM ET

perfection's avatar

also - and I won’t defend Sammy (I’d actually waive him) - for you to call a 34 year old Cleary “washed up” despite being one of our best players in the playoffs is also totally unfounded. I mean, he CAN’T play like that all year or he’d die. I’d rather Cleary coast through the season, hopefully stay healthy and play the way he did in the playoffs (definitely one of the hardest players to play against in the Hawks series)... and all for UNDER $2mil. That’s a steal. How it’s being painted as anything other than that is beyond me. Yeah, it sucks for Tootoo and Eaves and probably eventually Emmerton, but it has nothing to do with Tatar and Nyquist. It’s not even like Cleary and Tatar play the same role. They are not even directly competing against each other for ice time. 

Cleary undoubtedly makes our team more of a formidable playoff contender and that’s what its all about.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 09/15/13 at 05:21 PM ET

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If a young player outplays a veteran then the veteran should sit, that is not how it is done currently.  You mention that Tatar and Cleary are different players, of course they are but there are only 4 lines to play on, I can guarantee you that Cleary will be playing more regularly than Tatar.  Again, there is no sense of entitlement to play players who deserve to play.  The kids have earned their time, last season Detroit may not make the playoffs without them, and then turn around and win the Calder Cup.  They have done everything asked of them, there is no sense of entitlement to expect that they now be given more prominent roles based on their efforts.  But again, it is the vets who get favored over the prospects, so it is not even a true meritocracy anyways

Posted by bababooey on 09/15/13 at 05:32 PM ET

perfection's avatar

Except neither you or Tatar have yet justified that Cleary shouldn’t play more. If Tatar brings it, he’ll play. Your point is moot. Youre arguing against things that haven’t happened yet

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 09/15/13 at 05:47 PM ET

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We agree that is what should happen.  Where we disagree is that is what will happen.  The Wings organization favors the vets, and barring injury, there is no way that Tatar pays Cleary out of a spot whether he deserves it or not.  That is the issue.  They are already talking about putting Cleary on the top line, even though Abdelkader has played well and Cleary hasn’t done much.

Posted by bababooey on 09/15/13 at 06:17 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

They have done everything asked of them

There’s that phrase again.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/15/13 at 06:18 PM ET

Avatar

Vets have NHL history, Rookies have AHL history.

Posted by guy on 09/15/13 at 07:44 PM ET

Crater's avatar

he CAN’T play like that all year or he’d die. I’d rather Cleary coast through the season, hopefully stay healthy and play the way he did in the playoffs
Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 09/15/13 at 05:21 PM ET

So, sign him to a 2 way deal and assign him to grand rapids till the playoffs?  This seems to be the best of both worlds. Cleary not coasting through the season affecting development of talent, but available when he is needed.

Posted by Crater from SoCal on 09/15/13 at 07:46 PM ET

Colquhoun's avatar

There is something in this twenty-some-odd-consecutive playoff seasons record that tells me that the players who are best suited to help us win will play.  For some odd reason that fact helps me sleep at night and dream of Cup#12 sometime in June, 2014.  Cleary,Sammy, Bert, God bless ya, best of luck.  I am guessing you had better get those rickety knees of yours a-moving because the young-uns will be breathing down your neck.

Posted by Colquhoun on 09/15/13 at 08:56 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.