Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Red Wings overnight report: on trades, health and lots of Griffins stuff/videos

I may not agree with Red Wings GM Ken Holland or the Wings front office's highly likely decision to stand pat at the trade deadline, but at least the organization has preached a consistent message about doing so over the past couple of weeks.

No depth moves, we were told, no moving the team's first-round pick, first we were told regarding the Bouwmeester trade, and then Holland confirmed, no rentals during what the team's acknowledged is a transitional and/or rebuilding year. We've more or less heard this refrain since, well, hell, since Joakim Andersson was given the provisional "get a place for now" over a month ago, if not since the that Sunday practice in Columbus when Jonathan Ericsson stepped on a puck and injured his shoulder...If not since the team missed out on Ryan Suter.

Would I like to see the Wings be more aggressive in terms of trades? You bet.

But with the "impact" players all but gone, and the team not in the mood to make short-term gains that could cause long term cap-space or prospect-losing pain, this team is all but guaranteed to make exactly one move on Wednesday--recalling Brian Lashoff from the Grand Rapids Griffins--and while being pissed off about the situation doesn't make you a bad person or Wings fan...

We don't run the team. We have our voices, and they're heard a little more than we might imagine, but we don't make the personnel choices.

And, as the Detroit News's Ted Kulfan suggests, the team's management has decided to wait until the off-season to meaningfully address its needs for a top-pair defenseman and top-six, goal-scoring forward:

"I like our depth," Holland said Tuesday. "Unless we get that (top-four defenseman or top-nine forward), I don't think we have a deal."

Simply, Holland doesn't appear to be interested in acquiring a rental player who likely would leave for unrestricted free agency this summer.There was, however, a temptation Tuesday when Stars officials had forward Jaromir Jagr on the block.

But …The soon-to-be unrestricted free agent was traded to the Bruins for a first-round pick and two prospects. The Red Wings also were interested in Flames defenseman Jay Bouwmeester, a top-four-caliber defenseman. But he was traded to the Blues on Monday for a conditional 2013 first-round pick and two prospects.

There still are players expected to be available who could help the Red Wings — if Holland backtracks on his stance against rentals — such as defensemen Mark Streit (Islanders) or Ryan Whitney (Oilers). Panthers defenseman Brian Campbell is also available, but with three years and more than $21 million left on his contract, not many teams likely will bite.

And there are some forwards worth looking at. Tomas Fleischmann (Panthers) has two years and $9 million remaining on his contract. The former Red Wings second-round pick (2002) scored a career-high 27 goals last season, but has slumped to eight goals this season.

Jason Pominville (Sabres) has two years and $10.6 million remaining on his contract. And like Fleischmann, Pominville's production has dropped off this season (23 points and 10 goals compared to 73 points and 30 goals last season).

Outside of that, Holland and Co. are waiting for help from within. Forwards Todd Bertuzzi (back, 1-2 weeks), Mikael Samuelsson (upper body, day-to-day) and Darren Helm (back, indefinite) have missed the majority of the season, but could return soon.

"That would be better than any move I could make," Holland said of adding the forwards to the lineup.

Holland was more interested in talking about the statuses of his injured players, as MLive's Ansar Khan noted:

General manager Ken Holland said Henrik Zetterberg (groin) and Mikael Samuelsson (upper body) are day-to-day and that their injuries are not significant. Darren Helm (back) and Todd Bertuzzi (back/leg) will make the trip to Phoenix and Colorado Thursday-Friday.

He said of Zetterberg: “We'll be conservative, but we realize we're in a playoff hunt. There's a chance he could play Thursday.''

He said of Samuelsson: "He's very sore. He skated today, but needs his full range of motion. Felt good in the skate. Good, positive step. He's on the horizon.''

He said Bertuzzi is optimistic he can return in a couple of weeks and that Helm saw another specialist two days ago.

"Everyone agrees he's on the right path,'' Holland said. "We'll start pushing it and see how it responds.''

Holland said of Danny DeKeyser's potential debut during this trip: “Mike (coach Babcock) will play him when he thinks he's ready and he gives us a chance to win. We're not holding mid-season tryouts. We got to win games.''

Ditto, he told the Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness...

“Bert is feeling very good,” Holland said.

Darren Helm (back) saw another back specialist two days ago and it still looks like he’s heading in the right direction.

“We’ll start pushing it and see how it responds,” Holland said.

And as the Wings didn't practice on Tuesday, I'm guessing that Kyle Quincey's desire to play through pain (Per Pleiness) will receive a "go" or "no-go" designation either today or on Thursday:

Quincey could return as early as Thursday, which is a lot quicker than originally thought.

“It’s been two weeks and a couple days so I’m pretty fortunate there,” said Quincey, who was supposed to be out four to six weeks. “Those two weeks felt like a couple of months. My personal goal is to play Thursday, that’s no guarantee so we’ll see what happens.”

Quincey still has no feeling on the right side of his mouth and cheek.

“The nerve hasn’t come back,” Quincey said. “Once that does I will start having feeling in my teeth and gums and lips. It’s not too bad. I just dice up the food pretty good. The blender is getting a lot of use.”

 

 

Sans trades or practice news, Thursday night's opponent, the Phoenix Coyotes, defeated Los Angeles 3-1, and the Coyotes sit only four points behind Detroit in the Western Conference standings. As of Monday afternoon, anyway, DetroitRedWings.com's Bill Roose set up the "Week Ahead in Hockeytown" as follows...

THURSDAY – at PHOENIX COYOTES (14-15-6): The Coyotes are 9-0-1 this season and 107-4-5 under coach Dave Tippett when leading after two periods. Backup goalie Jason LaBarbera has allowed three or more goals in each of his last three starts as he fills in for No. 1 keeper Mike Smith, who is nursing an upper body injury. LaBarbera has surrendered 11 goals and is 1-1-1 since replacing Smith between the pipes. His loss was a 3-2 setback to the Red Wings last week in Glendale. Smith and defenseman Zbynek Michalek (lower body) are both in injured reserve, but are listed as being day to day. Though he’s missed the last 10 games, Michalek still leads the Coyotes with 68 blocked shots.

PLAYER TO WATCH: One of the most fluid young defenseman in the league, Oliver Ekman-Larsson is among the Coyotes’ top offensive contributors. The 21-year-old defenseman is tied for first among all Phoenix blue-liners in scoring with 19 points, and leads the team with 16 assists. He ranks is tied for seventh among all NHL defensemen in points, and is first on the team with five multi-point games. Ekman-Larsson signed a six-year contract with the Coyotes on March 15. In eight career games against the Red Wings, Ekman-Larsson has been held to one assist with a minus-3 rating and 12 shots.

FRIDAY – at COLORADO AVALANCHE (12-18-4): The Avs have the league’s third-best penalty kill at home this season, successfully killing off 90.5 percent of their own penalties. … Colorado ranks second in the league with 586 blocked shots, trailing only Toronto (609). The Avs are blocking shots at a 17.2 per game average, which is the highest average of any team since the league began tracking the statistic. The season record is 17.1 blocks/per game, established by Florida in 2009-10. Individually, defenseman Greg Zanon leads the Avs with 85 blocks. He led his respective team, including Nashville, and finished among the league's top 10 in that category for five consecutive seasons from 2006-11.

PLAYER TO WATCH: Since signing a new two-year contract worth $10 million last month, Ryan O'Reilly has jumped toward the top of the team scoring race. After being held scoreless in his first two games this season, including the March 5 game at Detroit, O’Reilly has produced 13 points with four goals in 14 games in March, matching his career-high for points in a single month. He also had 13 points in February, 2012. … Like Mike Modano did when he signed with the Red Wings, O’Reilly now wears No. 90 this season, giving up on No. 37, which he wore the first three years with the Avs. Always a fan of No. 9, O’Reilly simply accepted the number that he was given when he arrived in Denver four years ago, because No. 9 was taken.

SUNDAY – vs. ST. LOUIS BLUES (17-14-2): The Red Wings haven’t seen the Blues since everybody and their brother were anointing them Stanley Cup favorites. Recently, the Blues had held opponents under 20 shots in four of the last five games, helping maintain their league leading mark of just 23.5 shots per game this season. The Blues also led the league last season in fewest shots allowed, while ranking second in 2010-11. … Patrik Berglund collected his first short-handed goal of the year on Feb. 13 at Joe Louis Arena. The Blues’ center is one of three NHL players with at least four power-play goals, two game-winning goals, and a short-handed goal this season. The others are Red Wings center Henrik Zetterberg and Buffalo left winger Thomas Vanek. … This is the fifth and final meeting of the season series with the Blues. Despite allowing eight power-play goals to the Blues, the Wings are 2-1-1 vs. St. Louis this season.

PLAYER TO WATCH: The resurgent Chris Stewart enjoyed another incredibly productive month of March. For his career, the Toronto native has accrued 54 points in 68 games during March, while February is a distant second at 34 points in 60 games. All eight of the right wing’s goals last month came at even-strength, helping the Blues earn a +5 goal differential. Prior to March, the Blues were No. 22 with a -6 differential. Stewart finished the month with 16 points. … Stewart is among a trio of Blues – the others are rookie Vladimir Tarasenko and center Patrik Berglund – with three goals against the Red Wings this season.

 

 

In the prospect department, in playoff hockey, James De Haas registered an assist as his Penticton Vees defeated the West Kelowna Warriors 5-4, taking a 3-1 lead in the BCHL teams' second-round series;

And in regular season action, in the AHL, the Grand Rapids Griffins went 2-for-4 in Texas thanks to a 5-1 drubbing of the Houston Aeros. The Griffins' website provides a recap (and a photo gallery; the Houston Aeros website's recap and the Houston Chronicle's Mike Damante's recap don't add much to the mix):

Francis Pare reached an historic milestone on Tuesday at the Toyota Center, scoring his 100th and 101st goals in a Griffins uniform to help Grand Rapids defeat the Houston Aeros 5-1.

The Griffins (39-23-3-3) scored four goals in 5:03 during the second period to take a commanding lead they wouldn’t lose.

After a scoreless opening period, Chad Billins put the Griffins on the scoreboard at 7:58 of the second. The defenseman blocked the puck at the line and quickly snapped a shot from the top of the left wing circle through traffic and under Darcy Kuemper’s glove.

Grand Rapids took a two-goal lead on a shorthanded goal at 9:52 of the middle period. Adam Almquist’s shot deflected off a defenseman and Jan Mursak worked the puck back to Almquist at the point. Almquist returned a pass for Mursak, who sent the puck back towards the net, where Luke Glendening popped in a rebound to give the Griffins a 2-0 lead.

Tomas Jurco put Grand Rapids ahead by three goals with a backhand shot at 11:05 of the second period. Pare picked up the loose puck in front of the right circle and fed it to Jurco, who flipped a backhand shot into a wide open net. After giving up three straight goals, the Aeros pulled Kuemper in favor of Cody Reichard.

Pare scored his 100th goal as a Griffin just under two minutes later, becoming just the second to reach the century mark after Michel Picard. The Lemoyne, Quebec, native backed up from the right wing circle and snuck his shot above Reichard’s catching glove at a near-impossible angle at 13:01. The goal was Pare’s 20th of the season, marking his third 20-goal season.

But Pare didn’t stop there. The right wing received a great pass from Louis-Marc Aubry and quickly netted his 101st goal at 6:10 of the third period, all but sealing a Griffins victory with a 5-0 lead.

The Aeros (33-24-5-5) scored their lone goal of the game at 7:50 of the final period. The puck took a Houston bounce right to Stephane Veilleux, and the left wing’s shot slipped past Tom McCollum before the goaltender could recover.

Kuemper stopped 13 of 16 shots and Reichard made 11 saves for the Aeros in their loss to the Griffins. McCollum earned the victory behind 25 saves.

The Griffins will battle Abbotsford on back-to-back nights this weekend to wrap up their season-high seven game road trip, starting with a matchup on Friday at 10 p.m. EDT.

Abbotsford, as in Abbotsord, British Columbia, where it appears that Ryan Sproul will join them:

 

 

In the lovely world of power rankings, MLive's Brendan Savage compiled a collection of this week's Monday listings, and TSN's Scott Cullen and SI's Adrian Dater added their takes to the mix on Tuesday.

Cullen assesses the Wings as follows...

This Week 19 Last Week 11 Detroit Red Wings18-13-5: Rebounded from a 7-1 pasting at home against Chicago Sunday to win against Colorado Monday, but the Wings minus Zetterberg are ripe for the picking.

And the ever...let's say "up-and-down" Dater offers this take:

12 Detroit Red Wings Last Week: 11

With Jay Bouwmeester going to St. Louis, will Detroit try to keep up with a deadline trade for a quality D-man? Wouldn't shock me, though the Wings' D did get a nice upgrade over the weekend with the signing of local boy Danny DeKeyser, who finished up his college career at Western Michigan. It didn't hurt that Wings legend Nick Lidstrom was put to work by GM Ken Holland to act as the ace recruiter. "To have a chance to play for your hometown team is definitely something special,'' DeKeyser, a Macomb native, told reporters. "I'm going to come in, get my feet wet a little bit, practice here this week and just take it from there. I want to be a big part of the team here. I just have to work hard, then we'll see what happens." Oh, and happy 85th, Gordie Howe.

 

And finally, part 1: the Grand Rapids Griffins' video crew is at it again. They've posted two "Between the Benches" videos, chronicling their back-to-back games against the Lake Erie Monsters on March 22nd and 23rd, with the first video covering the majority of the Griffins' 4-3 shootout loss to the Monsters on Friday the 22nd...

And the second part covering the shootout loss and its aftermath--as in the road trip to Cleveland:

And finally, part 2: I don't care if it's a repeat: Griffinshockey.com's Kyle Kujawa explained why the Wings may allow Calle Jarnkrok, who's gone pointless but played strongly in Tuesday night's game against Houston, to head back to the Eliteserien to play one more year for Brynas IF if he's not able to crack the Wings' roster--because it's the organization's top prospect's his hometown team:

“We haven’t talked about it so much yet,” said Jarnkrok. “We will see what happens. Maybe I will be in Sweden, or Detroit, or here. I’m not sure.”

Having played at the professional level regularly in Sweden for four seasons, there’s talk that Jarnkrok could be ready to jump directly to the NHL next year. But high numbers don’t always translate across the pond, which is why the Red Wings chose to evaluate him in the AHL to determine the best route. With the possibility of losing several forwards, like Nyquist, Tatar and Joakim Andersson, permanently to the NHL next season, the Griffins could use another player to slot into a skill role. But Sweden is always an option for Jarnkrok as well, where he’s played for Brynas IF, the team he grew up rooting for.

“It feels great to be able to play for my home town,” said Jarnkrok, a native of Gavle, Sweden. “It’s very good to have an important role on the team and be a guy who scores goals and makes points.”

Jarnkrok explained that playing for Brynas was a dream come true. Growing up in Sweden, many young hockey players follow the NHL, but don’t always get to watch much of the action due to the time difference. Jarnkrok grew up wanting to play for Brynas, only altering his plan once he realized he had a chance to play in the NHL.

“From the beginning I dreamed of playing in the Elite League,” he said. “When I got older, I dreamed of going to the next level and playing with the best. It’s been a dream of both.”

...
And whether he does end up in the NHL, AHL or SEL next season, it’s clear that he’ll make an impact. He finished eighth in Sweden’s top league in scoring this season, setting a personal best with 42 points. However, it was a disappointment compared to last season, when he finished 14th overall in scoring but helped Brynas capture the SEL championship. He hopes to do the same thing in North America in the not-so-distant future.

“It was a great feeling, especially doing it for my hometown,” said Jarnkrok. “The whole city was watching, it was great. It was a dream come true.”

 

I am seriously considering holding an impromptu TMR gathering in Grand Rapids next weekend:

 

Local fans will only have a few chances to see Jarnkrok live this season. He’ll help the Griffins close out a road trip and begin their final homestand of the season, giving him three games in Grand Rapids from April 10-13. But he’ll also have a chance to shine on the international stage, as he’s being considered for a spot on the national team for the upcoming IIHF World Championship, held in Finland in Sweden from May 3-19.

 

I'm pulling double duty heading up to the trade deadline to give the boss a hand, so I'll see you in a couple hours.

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Comments

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On an unrelated note, here is a question I’ve been curious about.

If both Datsyuk and Zetterburg retired after this current season would either/both have their numbers retired?

Obviously retirement is (hopefully) a few years away, especially for Z but have both these players earned the number retirement?

Go Wings!

Posted by Acim on 04/03/13 at 06:18 AM ET

gt500x's avatar

No, Acim.

Posted by gt500x on 04/03/13 at 07:03 AM ET

gt500x's avatar

Holland’s (mixed) message has indeed been consistent. We doing this but not really.  We want that but not really.  Might as well start rooting for this team to go all the way as it is built, rather than hope for a true rebuild or a true attempt at going deep into the playoffs.

Posted by gt500x on 04/03/13 at 07:11 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Al Davis: Just Win, Baby
Tick Tock: Just get in, Baby (as in the playoffs and everyone has a shot)

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 04/03/13 at 08:02 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

“That would be better than any move I could make,” Holland said of adding the forwards to the lineup.

Statements like this, plus some of the quotes regarding Quincey, are the reason why I’m quickly losing faith in the man.

Posted by Hootinani on 04/03/13 at 08:24 AM ET

RW19's avatar

While I do not expect a trade for a rental player, what I don’t get is the constant references by Holland to liking his depth. Something doesn’t jibe there.

Bertuzzi has barely played this year and has the kind of injury that prevented him from strenuously working out. Plus, its not like he had stellar playoffs the last two years. Samuelsson hasn’t played all year, he’s coming off two seasons riddled with injuries and he been dumped by two team the last two years. Helm hasn’t played in a year. Colaiacovo is a guy that can’t play a physical game because his body can’t take it. White is a liability.

I was thinking that they would make some space for Tatar, or that they would try to swap one of their LH defenseman for at least 1 NHL calibre RH defenseman. Some tweak to better balance the team. Something.

Thinking that in June the value of some of their pending UFA’s will be higher is silly. Believing that teams will dump top four defensemen and top six wingers as compliance buyouts is equally foolish.

Holland has had a history of losing guys for nothing (see Hudler, Quincey & Ozzie for example). Thay was not an issue when we had real NHL depth accross the board, but that’s not the case anymore. Whether he likes it or not at some point he will have to make player-for-player deals to improve this team.

Posted by RW19 on 04/03/13 at 08:27 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

Everyone who is harping on Ken Holland to make deals assumes there are deals to be made.  How many teams really want to help the Red Wings get better? 

And even if there were no salary cap, there is no team that is going to win the Cup every year.  (Did the Tigers win the World Series last year?) 

Like everyone, I’m frustrated with the way the season has gone.  Yet the Wings are still in the top 8 as we speak.  I’m not kidding myself.  I don’t see the Wings as serious contenders for the Stanley Cup this wacko, lockout-shortened season.  But the season doesn’t end until the season ends, so as long as the Wings are in the hunt, I’m not giving up on anything.  Besides, if the WIngs simply make the playoffs again, that’s a hell of a streak.  Can any other team match that?  That alone is something major for which we, as fans, should be proud.

I think patience is required here. I see a management that is also realistic about the Wings’ Cup chances this year and is planning for the future by not sacrificing top picks and top prospects for a short-term, no-guarantee fix. 

The upside to the current situation in my mind is that some of the guys who have been ripening (and I think over-ripening in some cases) in Grand Rapids are going to get their chance next season.  And I think that’s exciting.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 04/03/13 at 08:53 AM ET

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The reason is simple, he is scared to make a major move that will possibly change the complexion of the team.  He is paralyzed by the idea that his team needs a major shakeup and that the style they have played the last close to 20 yrs is no longer viable.  He s content to sand pat because standing pat means they sneak into the playoffs the keeping u the illusion they “have a chance”.  People seem to think that his message has been consistent while I heard Holland say he wasn’t sure yet if they were BUYERS or SELLERS, that statement means either moving some deadweight, ala San Jose, or buying for a last run.  There was no talk to sanding pat.  So I see a GM who is too conservative, too close to his players and needs to be moved to Devellanos office (which Ilitch had asked him to do before Yzerman left).  I have zero faith that there s a plan other than stay the course, I have zero faith in this GM.

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 08:56 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar


Everyone who is harping on Ken Holland to make deals assumes there are deals to be made.  How many teams really want to help the Red Wings get better? 

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 04/03/13 at 08:56 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Everyone who is harping on Ken Holland to make deals assumes there are deals to be made.  How many teams really want to help the Red Wings get better? 


Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 04/03/13 at 08:53 AM ET

Soooo…. the Sharks can get picks for Clowe but Holland will get nothing for Flip? Me thinks Wilson is actually trying

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 04/03/13 at 08:57 AM ET

Avatar

Chuckled watching Tradecentre and lead in commercial talking about it being one of the busiest days showed Holland on his cell phone. I just assume he was on the phone with a Belle Tire store asking if he could come down to the showroom to work in his new pair of shoes.

Posted by Valek from Chicago on 04/03/13 at 09:05 AM ET

gt500x's avatar

I get the feeling Holland will try to re-sign Filpulla at 5 mil and probably a long term deal.

Posted by gt500x on 04/03/13 at 09:06 AM ET

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He was on the phone ordering Little Ceasars as he watched the trade deadline like the rest of us.

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 09:08 AM ET

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Never be satisfied. And the repeat statements of liking his team, Holland is satisfied while the Pens and Rangers and Canucks and Sharks get better. We are getting left in the dust, because he likes our team. Flip is going to walk and we will get nothing for a top 2nd line center man. I’m sure he will LOVE his team after that happens. Being content will mean nothing after getting bounced in the first or second round because he was content to not do something about it.
Ana needs a 2nd line center, no reason he shouldn’t be talking to them about a swap for Bobby Ryan and Flip. It would suit both sides, be an even trade money wise and both teams would be happy. Throw in a prospect(Sheehan preferably) or a 2nd or third rounder conditional on Flip’s resigning. I read a story two days ago that ANA wants a 2nd line center cause all the guys they have tried there just doesn’t seem to be working.
But Holland is content, he likes his team that loses 3 out of 4 to Columbus, drops games against Calgary, gets smoked by Chicago and can’t beat a waining SJ team.
Jack Johnson and Keith Yandle are who need to be targeted on Defense. We have 9 of them. Ericsson is not a top 2 guy. So move him. Give him Erock and whatever else they would like, then we have a formidable pairing at the top and a ton of good young kids for the other 4. And then we are moving forward. Then I would like our team and be content. But with 9 Defensemen and White’s expiring contract, keeping him is just nonsense. No reason there isn’t a 4th round pick out for him somewhere so that maybe we only have 8 D men. But it’s cool Kenny, like your team, stay content, do nothing as the rest of the league just get better and better 12 games before the playoffs.

Posted by Munnster9 on 04/03/13 at 09:12 AM ET

Avatar

I don’t get is the constant references by Holland to liking his depth. Something doesn’t jibe there.

The only thing that Holland should be happy with is his depth.  Without two genuine top lines this year the reason we are where we are is because of depth, because the bottom six are playing well.

How many teams really want to help the Red Wings get better?

Sorry, but that is such a cop out.

There were nine trades yesterday.
There were four trades monday.
There were six trades in the previous week.

That’s 19 trades involving 20 teams going back to Pittsburgh getting Brendan Morrow.  Can honestly say that a single one of those trades involved one team wanting to help their trading partner get better?  A single one?

Nobody sets out to make another team better yet somehow other GMs manage to make trades in an attempt to better their teams, so saying that nobody wants to help the Wings get better is an absolute bull$hit excuse.

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 09:17 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

Soooo…. the Sharks can get picks for Clowe but Holland will get nothing for Flip? Me thinks Wilson is actually trying

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 04/03/13 at 08:57 AM ET

You have to consider that there was demand for Clowe, Murray, and Handzus.  Have you heard any reports about GMs beating down Holland’s door with questions about Fil and White?  I sure haven’t.

It’s a two way street.  I sure as hell don’t want to see those two walking away for free, but if nobody likes what the Wings are selling, what options are there?

Nonetheless, GMs get more reactionary as the deadline approaches.  These guys may be moved before the day is over.

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 04/03/13 at 08:53 AM ET

Ditto.  A little patience is needed right now.  The Wings will be back to their wonted ways very soon.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 09:18 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

“I like our depth,” Holland said Tuesday.

can one of you blogger-guys or journalists or whoever might be able to slip a note to Holland or yell at him from across the street tell him we are sick of hearing he likes this and likes that, and want to hear him talk about what he DOESN’T like and WHAT HE’S GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

/vent

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 09:43 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

I think patience is required here. I see a management that is also realistic about the Wings’ Cup chances this year and is planning for the future by not sacrificing top picks and top prospects for a short-term, no-guarantee fix. 

we’ve been patient for years, hearing the same things from Holland.

someone said it yesterday…we were told a couple trade deadlines ago “not much out there, gonna wait for the summer” then come summer “not much out there, gonna wait for the trade deadline” and ‘round and ‘round we go.  that comment was dead on.

I am in the crowd of “lack faith in Holland.”  he hasn’t done anything notable since Bowman left.  I now believe it was all Bowman, and Holland was just the guy who did the legwork, contracts, etc. but it was Bowman deciding on the moves.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 09:54 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

and when it comes to the “hell yeah I want to play with the Wings, even if it’s for less money” aura…I think that was all about Bowman too.  just look, he’s in Chicago now and where are the players going?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 09:55 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

I am in the crowd of “lack faith in Holland.”  he hasn’t done anything notable since Bowman left.  I now believe it was all Bowman, and Holland was just the guy who did the legwork, contracts, etc. but it was Bowman deciding on the moves.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 09:54 AM ET

Fact!

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 04/03/13 at 10:05 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

and I absolutely agree that Holland’s “I know them, I know their families” thing is scary as hell.  if that’s where his head is at he has no business being an NHL GM.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 10:09 AM ET

gt500x's avatar

I’ve done my ranting about Holland not being a seller.  I have only one thing left to say: Go Wings!

Posted by gt500x on 04/03/13 at 10:34 AM ET

Avatar

Have you heard any reports about GMs beating down Holland’s door with questions about Fil and White?

Did you hear much about action on Clowe before the report that San Jose approached him about waiving his no trade?

Or maybe Jagr is a better comparison.  We didn’t hear much about him until the reports that Dallas was actively shopping him.

A little patience is needed right now.

Actually, a lot of patience has been granted him since 2009 which was the first time he pretended that re-signing Zetterberg and Franzen in April was akin to making a UFA signing in the summer.

Four years is a lot of patience, how much longer should everyone be patient?

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 10:37 AM ET

Rdwings28's avatar

I live about 10 miles from downtown GR and enjoy the Griffins, really like the videos.

I am seriously considering holding an impromptu TMR gathering in Grand Rapids next weekend:

Hey , I would like to be invited to a get together George. Keep us informed. Looking like the first time in four years the boys will make the playoffs.

Posted by Rdwings28 on 04/03/13 at 10:51 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

and I absolutely agree that Holland’s “I know them, I know their families” thing is scary as hell.  if that’s where his head is at he has no business being an NHL GM.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 10:09 AM ET

I guess we’re gonna disagree on this, but I do have to ask: Is that a world we really want to live in?  I know getting over attached to players has its draw backs, but one of the things I’ve always loved and respected about the organ-i-zation is it’s “blood is thicker than water” approach to business.  I find it refreshing more often than not.

Did you hear much about action on Clowe before the report that San Jose approached him about waiving his no trade?

Nope, but that’s more than I’ve heard about White or Filpulla.  Let’s not kids ourselves either by pretending that either of those two have the same market value as Clowe or Jagr.

Actually, a lot of patience has been granted him since 2009 which was the first time he pretended that re-signing Zetterberg and Franzen in April was akin to making a UFA signing in the summer.

Four years is a lot of patience, how much longer should everyone be patient?

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 10:37 AM ET

Garth, take deep a breath and remember to squeeze the trigger… I love to talk hockey, but I get annoyed quickly when my colleagues rush to pigeon hole me.  Please resist the urge.  I’ve said several times in the past few days that I think Holland was too complacent during 09-12.  I think this year is different and that patience is the right move.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 10:55 AM ET

Avatar

I guess we’re gonna disagree on this, but I do have to ask: Is that a world we really want to live in?  I know getting over attached to players has its draw backs, but one of the things I’ve always loved and respected about the organ-i-zation is it’s “blood is thicker than water” approach to business.  I find it refreshing more often than not.

and how is that working out for us?  We’ve lost out on every big name free agent we’ve been after.  Success breeds success, if this team is successful and a bright future, free agents will come.

Nope, but that’s more than I’ve heard about White or Filpulla.  Let’s not kids ourselves either by pretending that either of those two have the same market value as Clowe or Jagr.

Filpula has market value, the Hawls and the Ducks are two teams that come to mind in terms of depth down the middle, the Ducks are actively seeking a 2nd line center. 

I’ve said several times in the past few days that I think Holland was too complacent during 09-12.  I think this year is different and that patience is the right move.

Why is this year different?  How do you give him a pass this year?  Holland has depth and quite a number of ufa’s that are not in the team’s plans, why has he not tried to move any instead of losing them for nothing?

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 11:07 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

...saying that nobody wants to help the Wings get better is an absolute bull$hit excuse.

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 09:17 AM ET

What bezukov said.  Take a deep breath, my friend.  I may disagree with you but I never call your opinions “bull$hit,” OK?

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 04/03/13 at 11:10 AM ET

Avatar

I think this year is different and that patience is the right move.

Fair enough.  I didn’t pigeon hole you and in fact said nothing about you.  All I did was disagree.

Nope, but that’s more than I’ve heard about White or Filpulla.

OK, but my point was that we didn’t know that there was any action on Clowe until San Jose made it known that there was, and even then there was only any kind of inkling that he might be available because the Sharks moved their other relatively high profile impending UFA.

Detroit hasn’t made any moves that would make anyone think that they’re selling off UFAs and Holland hasn’t made it known that he wants to move Filppula, so it’s a completely different situation than the Clowe situation.  None of the circumstances are the same, so you can’t use one as evidence regarding the other.

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 11:16 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

I guess we’re gonna disagree on this, but I do have to ask: Is that a world we really want to live in?

a world where business is business and guys who make millions of dollars playing a game have to put up with the horror of switching jerseys and moving to a new city?  poor them.

I know getting over attached to players has its draw backs, but one of the things I’ve always loved and respected about the organ-i-zation is it’s “blood is thicker than water” approach to business.  I find it refreshing more often than not.

there is a happy medium.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 11:17 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

and how is that working out for us?  We’ve lost out on every big name free agent we’ve been after.  Success breeds success, if this team is successful and a bright future, free agents will come.

Since the Illitch’s bought the team in ‘82, have you looked up at the rafters in the Joe?  How many Stanley Cups, President’s Trophies, and Division Titles are hanging up there?  I lost count.  I’m not going to soil my pants now because the chips are down, their way of doing business has payed off again and again.

Filpula has market value, the Hawls and the Ducks are two teams that come to mind in terms of depth down the middle, the Ducks are actively seeking a 2nd line center. 

Goodie gumdrops.  Are the Ducks sellers this year?  They’re gonna want more than a pound of our flesh to take Filpulla off our hands.

Why is this year different?  How do you give him a pass this year?  Holland has depth and quite a number of ufa’s that are not in the team’s plans, why has he not tried to move any instead of losing them for nothing?

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 11:07 AM ET

I don’t know, we have somewhere between 10-15 kick@ss prospects that are starting to show that the patience they’ve been given was well worth the wait.  Several of them look to be NHL ready next season.  Moreover, while the team may have a glut of prospects, its the good ones that other GMs want from us.  They’re gonna demand Petr Mrazek, not Thomas McCollum.  It would be great to move the no names and get something out of them, but no one wants them.  Would you really be happy, two years from now, if Jarnkrok or Jurco are tearing up the score sheets for somebody else, all because we had to have Brendan Morrow or Jagr now?

I’ll pass.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 11:31 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 11:16 AM ET

Garth, I almost let this go, but it’s impossible to read your first reply to me and believe your second one.  It relied on the assumption that I’ve been giving Holland a pass this whole time, which isn’t true.

Now that I’ve said my piece I’ll put the hatchet down.

None of the circumstances are the same, so you can’t use one as evidence regarding the other.

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 11:16 AM ET

Then why did your first comment to me imply that they are?  Turn about is fair play my friend.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 11:38 AM ET

Avatar

Since the Illitch’s bought the team in ‘82, have you looked up at the rafters in the Joe?  How many Stanley Cups, President’s Trophies, and Division Titles are hanging up there?  I lost count.  I’m not going to soil my pants now because the chips are down, their way of doing business has payed off again and again.

You think that the reason the Wings have won Cups is because they’re overly loyal and close to their players?  Really?  Nothing to do with their talent?  I would argue that more than loyalty was the idea that the Wings always were the favorites (or top teams) to win the Cup, each and every year.  Guys took less to play here because they knew the owner would always spend to the max to get what was needed to win a Cup and remain the favorite.  Loyalty and all that is nice but if you’re not a team that’s a favorite to win, it is not what is going to attract the free agents.  Look back on all the years the Wings stock piled talent, Hossa, Robataille, Hasek, Hull, they came here because they knew the Wings would always do what it took to win a Cup.  Can you say that now?  Are the Wings in the top echelon of Cup contenders?

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 11:42 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 11:42 AM ET

Remember what I said to Garth about pigeon holing people?  Really that was a stupid remark.  Several factors go into making a hockey club an attractive place to play, loyalty is one of them.  If this is really the level of nuance you want to have in this discussion I’m not interested man.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 11:51 AM ET

Avatar

Remember what I said to Garth about pigeon holing people?  Really that was a stupid remark.  Several factors go into making a hockey club an attractive place to play, loyalty is one of them.  If this is really the level of nuance you want to have in this discussion I’m not interested man.

I’m not pigeonholing anyone, I am responding to your response to me regarding why the Wings have been able to attract free agents.  Of course several factors go into picking a hockey team, but if the Wings were not a perennial hockey powerhouse they would never have attracted the free agents that have played here over the years.  Marian Hossa does not call up Kenny Holland while the latter is pumping gas and beg him to play in Detroit.  The Wings success will always be the biggest driver, all those other things are nice and I’m sure get talked about but there is not why they come here.

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 12:14 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

I’m not pigeonholing anyone, I am responding to your response to me regarding why the Wings have been able to attract free agents.

Twice in one day.  I’m on a roll.  Lets review:

You think that the reason the Wings have won Cups is because they’re overly loyal and close to their players?  Really?

Don’t insult my intelligence please, especially not twice.  I have yet to accuse you of being single minded, I don’t like having it done to me.

The Wings success will always be the biggest driver, all those other things are nice and I’m sure get talked about but there is not why they come here.

Posted by bababooey on 04/03/13 at 12:14 PM ET

I mostly agree with you.  But I think we agree that’s not everything.  There are lots of successful teams.  I’d rather work for a GM that’s invested in me rather than someone like a Glenn Sather who isn’t happy unless he makes five trades a season.  Don’t you think that you, especially if you were getting a little older, would like to sign with a team that won’t dump you at the first sign of trouble?  It counts for something.

 

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 12:33 PM ET

Avatar

Garth, I almost let this go, but it’s impossible to read your first reply to me and believe your second one.  It relied on the assumption that I’ve been giving Holland a pass this whole time, which isn’t true.

Except that I said nothing about you.

You said “a little patience is needed right now” and I pointed out that patience has been needed since 2009.

I don’t know why you think this is about you, it’s not.  I simply disagreed.

Then why did your first comment to me imply that they are?

I guess it’s because you have no reading comprehension.

The entire point of what I was saying is that Clowe was known to be available, which is why we knew more than one team was interested.

With Filppula we don’t know if Holland has told people he’s available and we don’t know if anyone has asked.  Ken Holland keeps his cards closer to his chest than other GMs do.

Different.  Circumstances.

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 01:10 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

their way of doing business has payed off again and again.

the league is different now.  their way of doing business is now impossible, and they don’t appear able to adjust to the new world of the NHL.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 04/03/13 at 01:17 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 01:10 PM ET

I said:

Ditto.  A little patience is needed right now.  The Wings will be back to their wonted ways very soon.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 09:18 AM ET

I said “right now,” meaning this season, not the last four years.  I don’t view Holland uncritically, and when you brought 09-12 into this, you mischaracterized my words to that effect.  I don’t think “its about me,” I just don’t like having the meaning of my words changed to suit the point you’re making.   

I guess it’s because you have no reading comprehension.

The entire point of what I was saying is that Clowe was known to be available, which is why we knew more than one team was interested.

With Filppula we don’t know if Holland has told people he’s available and we don’t know if anyone has asked.  Ken Holland keeps his cards closer to his chest than other GMs do.

Different.  Circumstances.

Posted by Garth on 04/03/13 at 01:10 PM ET

Make that three times now that you’ve insulted my intelligence.  Don’t be an @sshole man. 

1.) You brought Clowe into this discussion relative to Filpulla in the first place, and then you want to tell me it’s different circumstances?  That’s what I call having it both ways.

None of this changes the fact that Clowe is a more valuable asset, which was the point I was making in the first place. 

2.) Sure, Holland hasn’t explicitly made Filpulla available.  But let’s not pretend that the Wings Filpulla problem is a state secret.  If GMs are really interested, they’d be asking.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 04/03/13 at 01:49 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.