Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Red Wings overnight report: on Granato, Renney, Sproul, Hasek and comments

The Red Wings officially officially announced that the team has hired Tony Granato as one of Mike Babcock's new assistant coaches (Bill Peters leaving for Carolina + Tom Renney's departure to take the reins as Hockey Canada's president = one assistant coach down, one to go; Granato signed for "1 year plus an option") yielded a predictable amount of, "I'm happy to join the Red Wings" comments and a suitable number of jokes about the Babcock-Granato yell-fest back in 2008.

At this point, this Wings fan was more than happy to read somebody discuss the reasons that he felt Detroit was the place to be. Granted, Granato wears a suit these days, not a jersey, but he told the Macomb Daily's George Pohly that he believes the Wings aren't "that far off"...

Absolutely,” Granato said Tuesday when asked if the Red Wings can make a deep playoff run.

“I think it’s a great lineup, and I think it’s a lineup that can win,” Granato added. “The Detroit Red Wings play a system and brand of hockey … that’s tough to play against every night. They know how to develop players. They know how to win.”

And Granato told Pohly exactly the words we'd hoped a younger "new member of the family" might say on July 1st...

“I looked at the team, I looked at the staff, I looked at the management team led by Kenny and ownership,” he said. “This is a premier organization, and I wanted to be part of it. I’m lucky it became available when it did and I’m thrilled to be part of it.”

While discussing his possible role with the team...

“I think I can relate to the players well,” said Granato, who added that he wants to “be a complement and do whatever Mike needs of me.”

And his take on the Wings' youth movement:

“I just started watching video on (the younger players). I’ll continue to do my homework over the summer to get to know them a little bit better. But I do know there are some exciting prospects that have some great potential to play more significant roles as we move forward.”

Granato also discussed the Red Wings' "rebuild on the fly" while speaking with the Detroit News's Ted Kulfan...

The possibility of working for the Red Wings excited Granato, who feels the roster is utterly capable of making a run at the Stanley Cup.

(Looks up the definition of "utterly," finds out that it can in fact be used in a positive sense, though most of our modern connotations of "utterly" involve negative characteristics)

"Absolutely," said Granato, whose nephew Landon Ferraro is a Red Wings prospect on the cusp of the NHL. "If you look at what they went through last year, how they battled right to the end and compete the way they did, it was extremely impressive, one of the best years they've had while dealing with some tough situations.

"They've been able to find ways to win and compete. What they did last year, you look at the injuries, their best players played half the year and young players and some other players were asked to step up and play more significant roles, it really had a big impact on the season."

Rah rah rah?

"When you look at what they've (the Red Wings) done in the past 20 years, there's no franchise that can match the consistent success they've had," Granato said. "They know how to develop players, how to win, and find the right people and personnel and fit into the organization and roster. Year after year, they find ways to succeed."

As for this?

 

Here's what he told Kulfan:

"I've gotten a lot of texts about that picture," said Granato during a teleconference Tuesday announcing his hiring as the Red Wings’ new assistant coach. "It shows the competitiveness we have, the intensity both of us have. It's a funny thing right now. It's one of my favorite pictures. It shows Mike's intensity, and it shows mine as well."

Regarding his present role with the team, the Wings aren't quite sure whether Granato will manage the defensemen and penalty-kill, or whether he'll step into Renney's role and work with the forwards and power play, but Granato told Fox Sports Detroit's Dana Wakiji that he's comfortable with both roles:

"I learned a lot over the years about the importance of the small details of the game that are so important to being a part of a team's success," Granato said. "In Pittsburgh I worked with the forwards and PK. Over the past four years I think those two areas that I've enjoyed. So just bringing energy and I think I can relate to the players well; you can get a pretty good pulse on the locker room; and to be a complement and do whatever Mike needs of me."

And what does he think about his nephew, Landon?

"Obviously, I've watched him over the past few years develop into a pretty good player," Granato said. "Hopefully he continues to develop and be part of it as well."

For better or worse, we're not likely to hear much from Granato after this summer.

The Wings' assistant coaches tend to surrender the spotlight to Babcock, so the first time we hard a peep from Bill Peters was when the Carolina Hurricanes named him their coach last month, and I learned more about Tom Renney during his unveiling as Hockey Canada's president than I knew about him during his tenure with the Wings.

Renney received oodles of endorsements from a certain general manager and a certain relative of Landon Ferraro when the Canadian Press's Stephen Whyno sought out a little Renney-hiring context...

The Cranbrook, B.C., native spent parts of eight seasons as an NHL head coach from 1996 through 2012 and most recently was an associate on Mike Babcock’s staff with the Detroit Red Wings.

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said it was a “no-brainer” to hire Renney two years ago in Detroit and thinks his decades in hockey make him fit for the position as Hockey Canada’s top man.

“I’m sure that there’s going to be some learning on the fly, but I go back to his experiences,” Holland said in a phone interview. “He’s presented, he’s been an assistant coach, he’s been a head coach. He’s been involved with Canada’s national program, he’s been involved at the junior level. He’s got lots and lots of experiences.”

...

Renney doesn’t have much of a business background, but his resume goes beyond coaching. He spent time as director of player personnel and vice president of player development for the New York Rangers.

But longtime NHL player and current TSN analyst Ray Ferraro thinks Renney’s business intelligence is overlooked because everyone considers him a coach.

“Tom’s an educated man. He’s been around the business world for 30 years although his focus has always been on the coaching end of things,” said Ferraro, who recalled when Renney ran a clothing shop in Trail, B.C., as he was just getting into coaching. “His passion was hockey, but who knew? You’re coaching in Trail, right? Who knew there was going to be a grand career to this thing? Especially at that time.”

And while you may not be all that interested in what Renney's new job entails, the Edmonton Journal's Jim Matheson offered a succinct summary of Renney's requirements...

[He’s] putting away his whistle, maybe for good. He is tasked with making hockey the winter sport of choice for more Canadians; of growing the game, not just winning the games; although being president of Hockey Canada also means bringing home the gold medal at the world junior and world championships, and the Olympics, whenever possible.

“This opportunity comes along once in a lifetime,” said Renney, who was head coach of the national team from 1992-94, vice-president of Hockey Canada’s hockey operations from 1997-99, coached Canada’s world junior team to a silver medal in ’99, and was assistant coach on the 2004 and 2005 world men’s teams.

And Matheson also lets us know what Renney was doing this spring:

Renney, 59, interviewed for head coaching jobs with the Florida Panthers and Carolina Hurricane after the season, but the ’Canes hired another Detroit assistant coach, Bill Peters, and the Panthers went with Gerard Gallant.

“I knew I was in the hunt, but I had my eye on this (job),” said Renney. “It wasn’t in the back of my mind, but I had planted the seed.”

Renney indicated that Red Wings general manager Ken Holland brought Hockey Canada’s interest to him. Holland knew how important, and all-encompassing, the job is.

Renney will look after hockey development, high performance teams (men’s, women’s and juniors), corporate sales, events and marketing, and membership services.

If you want to read more about Renney's new responsibilities, Yahoo Sports' Sunaya Sapurji goes into significant depth regarding his tasks at hand, but I think that's more than enough Renney chat for this entry.

He never did figure out how to turn around a power play that's been horrifically inconsistent since Todd McLellan left to coach the San Jose Sharks, but Renney seemed to give Babcock a solid "good cop" and his experience as the coach of a very young Oilers team may or may not have helped Babcock reluctantly embrace the "youth movement."

I wish him well, and I hope that Babcock looks for a "good cop" given that Granato coaches like he plays--with an edge.

Given that Babcock's stated that Jeff Blashill will remain in Grand Rapids, he has several excellent in-house options in assistant coach and video coordinator Keith McKittrick and long-time Griffins assistant coach Jim Paek, but it appears that Babcock's looking to bring in another outside perspective.

 

 

 

The following comment doesn't come from a member of the Red Wings' organization, but it's getting "third billing" because it's the kind of comment I wish we'd heard from the intrepid admiral of the S.S. Red Wing. This comes from the Globe and Mail's James Mirtle and some dude who was just named the president of a team a 4-hour drive up the 401 (unless it's rush hour):

“A goal of ours was to leave some holes and create some competition,” team president Brendan Shanahan said of his team’s NHL roster last week at the Leafs development camp. “We want our young players, some of the guys that are out here at this camp, some of the guys that finished the year with the Marlies, to have job opportunities.

“We want to have competition, we want to create that internal pressure and [the idea] that there are jobs to be had here.”

This, too:

“It’s a bad habit to try to build your team on July 1 year after year after year,” Shanahan said. “It’s not always a great day.”

It's like a *#$%@&' party here in Detroit, "amirite?"

devil Applesauce so we can take some Glucosamine and Chondroitin supplements for Daniel Cleary's knees' sake! devil

 

 

 

Regarding one of the future members of the organization for whom we can throw our hands in the air, and raise them like we just don't care, the Red Wings posited what I'm presuming is a Bill Roose or Andrea Nelson-penned article (no author is cited) profiling Ryan Sproul...

“We haven't had a defenseman in the organization to shoot the puck as hard as he does since I remember,” said Jiri Fischer, Detroit’s director of player development. “He gets it through, every shot is dangerous and the way it comes off his stick, goalies have a hard time reacting. That's a gift.”

Sproul signed a three-year entry-level contract with Detroit in March 2012 following his second junior season with Sault Ste. Marie of the Ontario Hockey League. He was the third-leading scorer for the Greyhounds and was third amongst all OHL defensemen with 54 points.

He scored 23 goals with 31 assists and was plus-16 with 53 penalty minutes in 61 games for the Greyhounds, a team that he almost didn’t join.

“He was thinking about going to play college,” Fischer said. “He was recruited by Michigan. He ended playing junior in Sault Ste. Marie and last year he graduated the OHL as the top defenseman in the league. Later at the Memorial Cup, he was voted the CHL defenseman of the year. We've never had a defenseman that was drafted by Detroit receive that honor.”

...

In his first full season with the Griffins, Sproul earned 11 goals and 21 assists, the second highest scoring defenseman on the team. Despite his success in Grand Rapids last season, Sproul still has plenty to work on.

“He always likes to take off out of the D zone, even before the puck leaves,” Fischer said. “He likes to use skill in the D zone. He worked on it and he's gotten better. Ryan can be really special. The defensive part, he's working on it. I think it's just a matter of time until he convinces everyone that 'I've done my duty and this is my time.’ ”

And the article complements the Wings' video profile of Sproul:

The Wings have profiled Sproul, Xavier Ouellet and Teemu Pulkkinen, and it is good to "be reminded" that the organization's future does remain bright:

 

 

 

 

In the alumni department, The Score's Justin Bourne penned an article titled, "Remembering Dominik Hasek, the greatest goalie who ever lived." Amongst his commentary:

As far as the debate generally goes - Roy, Brodeur or Hasek? - it’s tough to argue for anyone but the latter. Some straight facts on Hasek:

* He’s won the most Vezina Trophies of any goaltender ever. Well, technically his six (six!) is less than Jacques Plante’s seven, but Plante’s came in a league with only six teams (and thus, six starters), and was just given to the goalie who started for the team with the lowest goals-against average. Hasek was up against 26-30 goalies, depending on the year. Brodeur won four, Roy won three...at one point Hasek won five in six years. To even be in the conversation to win the Vezina that many times is Hall-of-Fame stuff.

* He’s the only goalie to ever to twice win the Hart Trophy as league MVP. He also won the Ted Lindsay (league MVP as voted by the players) in both of those seasons, an award that’s only been won by one other goalie, Mike Liut (80-81).

* He won Olympic gold. Not like, the Czech Republic so much, but him. His stats: 0.97 goals-against-average, .961 save percentage, and he blanked Team Canada in a shootout.

* He didn’t even start for the Sabres until he was 28. He was a 10th round draft pick stuck behind Ed Belfour in the early days.

Bourne also suggests that "The Hasek Roll" was the Dominator's signature save:

 

 

 

In the "napkin notes" category:

A week ago, Kyle Quincey supposedly pulled out of the International Ice Hockey Australian Tour and declined to captain the Canadian team because he was "tired" from the rigors of the 2013-2014 season.  This week, the NHLPA's website reports that Quincey captained Team Ontario 1 at the NHLPA's charity golf tournament in Pebble Beach, and Quincey's team won the tournament (the NHLPA is holding its summer meetings in Pebble Beach).

Quincey was most likely a free agent at the time the Australian tour was being set up, and I'd imagine that the insurance premiums involved in taking part in a hockey tournament halfway around the world were absolutely astronomical. It's not fantastic that he had to bow out, but paying a five or six-figure premium and hoping that you don't get hurt...This is one instance where I'm actually defending Kyle Quincey.

Slightly more controversially, the Metro Times has been a very vocal critic of the follow-on arena and the politics surrounding it, and today, Ryan Felton discusses the Comet Bar, one of the likely sacrifices for the sake of the rink's footprint.

 

 

 

And now it's time to address the elephant in the room. When I joined Kukla's Korner, The Malik Report mostly inherited a significant chunk of Abel to Yzerman's audience, and it was assumed that the hands-off policy regarding the 19's territory as Red Wings blog core commenters would continue.

Throughout my tenure here, Paul's preferred a hands-off, comment-at-your-own-risk policy. I've followed that policy. Commenters are indeed the lifeblood of a blog, and while we've had our differences (some major), I do in fact respect each and every one of you, respect your opinions and your criticism, and I do value you. "Fo' realz."

On Tuesday, after asking for input regarding some complaints about the comments regarding Michael Petrella's article, I received a deluge of input via Twitter, Facebook and email, and it was overwhelmingly negative. From suggestions that the comments section has become an "echo chamber" dominated by a few commenters to comparisons of the comments section to,  Lord of the Flies and a solid chunk of either, "I don't dare scroll past the ad" or, "I read your stuff, but because of the comments section, I read and then I go somewhere else."

My first and biggest concern involves the TMR community, and I certainly don't expect the comments section of any blog to be warm and fuzzy--especially this summer--there's definitely a sense that pissing contests have slowly but surely become the thrust of the majority of reader discussions, and if people feel that they're not able to express their opinions or that they've been intimidated out of contributing to the discussion on a consistent basis, that's an issue.

My second concern involves my own ass. I understand that anything and everything I write is going to be criticized--that's part of the business, and while I grouse and grumble from time to time, I've learned to try to take the constructive criticism, hold myself accountable to my audience, and to do my best to let the rest of it slide.

When I hear people saying that the comments are driving them away from the website, community meets people reading-and-scooting. That's not good for me and that's not good for KK.

I want to open the floor, open Twitter, Facebook and my email to your suggestions as to what can be done to refine and improve the comments section in terms of inclusiveness and perhaps cranking the venom factor down from black widow to something survivable at least. Paul and I will continue the discussion throughout the balance of the summer.

We've done the, "Okay, from date X, the slate has been wiped clean, we're going to let what happened previously be and we're going to start again" thing before, but it doesn't seem to last past one controversial entry.

If the TMR community at large (this blog's readers also interact outside of the comments section) is overwhelmingly unhappy with the status of the TMR community as it appears in-online-print--and that is the case--then it's time to talk about changing the rules of engagement.

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Comments

Bugsy's avatar

To paraphrase Ernie Harwell, I’d rather be kind than right.
We all go over the deep end occasionally, just apologize when you do and move on.
If someone needs reeling in, don’t do it in a way to escalate the problem. If the person escalates it anyway, then they probably need a time out.
If you start typing any insult, like stupid, idiot, etc. step back a second, especially if meant for someone on the forum—it’s not likely worth it.
If you can’t say what you write towards a spouse, parent, or best friend, reconsider what you’re writing.
Passion is not the same as losing judgment. There’s nothing wrong with arguing fiercely, just pick apart the argument, not the person. I learn when people point out where I’m wrong or should look at it differently. Use your head. You and I don’t have to be “right” all the time to have a place in this world or feel good about ourselves. Realize everyone (hopefully) is here because of Red Wings passion, and ideally to be able to vent, criticize, cheer, escape, etc. You shouldn’t come in here making others wish they hadn’t come in the first place.

Probably all of this is blatantly optimistic/simplistic/overly civil. Part of the reason I’m not here much anymore is time and work (look at when I’m writing this). Part of this is not wanting to deal with so much ugliness/anger (that’s not the same as criticism) to feel worse after reading a few comments—there’s only so much “you’re an idiot”, “every Red Wing ___ is an idiot” repeatedly that a person can take. I’m not trying to be all smiles and say nobody should criticize—we’re all here to share/vent. Just being civil without losing the passion is a goal worth thinking about. 

Sorry for being long-winded, bad habits are hard to break. George and Paul, I really do hope you guys work this out. I’m going to stop here though, since I’m not a regular commenter anymore (I still read and donate) and feel therefore I don’t have any more right (if not less of a right) to say this than the regulars here. Take care.

Posted by Bugsy on 07/16/14 at 04:43 AM ET

Bugsy's avatar

Oh, and although hard to find, forums where civil and fiercely debated discussions happen do exist for sports. The point is they are hard to find nowadays.

Posted by Bugsy on 07/16/14 at 04:52 AM ET

w2j2's avatar

It is all about winning.

The Wings must go through a transition period lasting a few years, but the fans are accustomed to a hockey team that dominated for 16 years.

So suddenly Holland and Babcock are losers, George is a loser, the Detroit hockey reporters are losers, and for sure Dan Cleary and Kyle Quincey are losers.

Next it will be Kronwall, Zetterberg & Datsyuk are losers. 
Or Mickey Redmond and Ken Daniels.

cool cheese

Posted by w2j2 on 07/16/14 at 07:29 AM ET

Avatar

I love that quote by Shanahan. I’m hoping reason wins out by the time the roster is set in September and Kenny sees that light as well. I believe they can handle 1 D and 1 or 2 F prospects to start the season at full time. I couldn’t care less what that means for Cleary, Lashoff, Andersson or Glendening.
This is what I see as Hollands biggest mistakes as of late. The little signings of two to three years of Andersson, Lashoff, Samuelsson, Tootoo. These small deals that don’t handcuff them financially, but prevent prospects getting realistic looks at the pro level. I think last years injury spate was a blessing in disguise as it forced the hand of Holland into playing the players he would’ve likely shielded. Sure, they’ve developed a few gems that way, but that route also delays a good reading of prospects that won’t make the cut and they hold on to them for too long.

On the issue of commentors, theres really no silver bullet apart from a moderator. But there are several options that when combined could make a sizable dent:

One is an up or down vote on both comments and replies. Nothing like the combined judgment of your peers to influence whether you should keep pushing a stale argument.

Another is a flagging option for insulting or vulgar posts.

And another is to head the comments section with rules and examples of poor arguments. This would give the rest of the reasonable commenters a reference and a guide to call out and/or report unreasonable and repeatedly offensive tools.

Might I also suggest a format that allows direct responses to comments?

Posted by geoffreypelkey on 07/16/14 at 08:46 AM ET

joedaiceman's avatar

No advice at all. Keep writing what you are writing. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don’t, but I love reading your stuff in either case. Even when I disagree, I am compelled to read it because it is good.

Posted by joedaiceman on 07/16/14 at 09:29 AM ET

MsRedWinger's avatar

...Part of this is not wanting to deal with so much ugliness/anger (that’s not the same as criticism) to feel worse after reading a few comments—there’s only so much “you’re an idiot”, “every Red Wing ___ is an idiot” repeatedly that a person can take…

Posted by Bugsy on 07/16/14 at 04:43 AM ET

Bugsy pretty much summed up why I’ve been staying away from commenting, both here and at A2Y, though I still come here to read.  (And this in no way applies to everyone here.)

I’ve been accused - on other sites - of being “a Pollyanna,” but my understanding of being a fan is to support your team, not to accuse them of not caring, or to call them idiots or morons.  Same goes for coaches and management. 

I don’t have any proposed solution to the problem.  Maybe it’s just human nature…

 

Posted by MsRedWinger from Flori-duh on 07/16/14 at 09:33 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

“I read your stuff, but because of the comments section, I read and then I go somewhere else.”

So now we’re Sensitive Sally’s in the sports world too? What is this a soccer blog?

George, my suggestion to these people complaining, rub their eyes, give the noggin a shakey shake, and realize its 2014, and this is what comes with today’s internet media. To be honest, this is more calm than most comments sections can get, and if you think some of these guys insult you with what’s said, oh boy, read an article or two on something newsworthy outside the sportsphere, see what comments are hurled at like a Nolin Finley from the Detnews for example.

Comment sparing is not an exclusive problem to KK or GMR, or any outlet that allows comments.  You deal with it because those that don’t, get less traffic, because commenter’s tend to give you more clicks, returning to the same article.  Go read the disclaimer on Click on Detroit, it’s a paragraph that ends with “If you’re easily offended by strong opinions, you might skip reading comments entirely.” 

And that would be my suggestion to these readers, put on a #4 jersey and stop scrolling right at the end of the article if they are afraid to pick up a loose puck in the corner. 

Posted by MurrayChadwick on 07/16/14 at 09:48 AM ET

Avatar

For what it’s worth, I thought the comments in the petals petrella article were pretty good. Including a couple by hihd who can frequently seem to be do nothing more than troll. Personally, I thought the article premise was to look for something really bad and more or less just said the issue is lack of hard questions and that most comments picked up on this. Cdp had some great points.

Posted by teldar on 07/16/14 at 10:56 AM ET

awould's avatar

Posted by geoffreypelkey on 07/16/14 at 08:46 AM ET

I agree with this. A more updated commenting platform, with more features, may help. Then again, I don’t see a group of people with passionate opinions who disagree remaining totally civil and that’s ok. At least it’s free from politics and religion, which is more than I can say for nearly every other commenting board on the internet.

Posted by awould on 07/16/14 at 11:09 AM ET

alwaysaurie's avatar

re: comments.

I’d like the thread to be orgaized in such a way that you can either write a new post or reply to another’s post.

A button to collapse replies to a post would be needed, so that if there is a comment you’ve no interest in you can more easily skip over it.

(sigh) this is eaier for me to suggest than it is for you to implement. The page is structured as the page is structured & re-writing the code to change the format is a hassle I wouldn’t want to touch.

sobeit.

I find myself reading the topic and then exiting quite a bit because I don’t want to wade through comments that (frankly) are boring.

a boor is someone who continually broaches the same topic in the same way over and over and over… like a dentist drilling into a sensitive nerve.

Posted by alwaysaurie on 07/16/14 at 11:28 AM ET

RWBill's avatar

re: comments.
I’d like the thread to be orgaized in such a way that you can either write a new post or reply to another’s post.
A button to collapse replies to a post would be needed, so that if there is a comment you’ve no interest in you can more easily skip over it.
Posted by alwaysaurie on 07/16/14 at 11:28 AM ET

Good observations.
We’ve become adept at selecting, copying, incl the posters by-line, pasting, deleting portions, selecting, then putting in quotes or italics, time consuming as it is.

The “thread” tree-offspring concept is certainly widely seen in other web sites, making it easier to follow, OR skip, certain topics.  Paul would have to sign on with another web provider or the provider restructure his format. 

But I kind have gotten used to it here and don’t mind it, and even if I skip over comments about KFQ or whatever, the current sequential format allows me to see who’s been, or is, on, picking out some of The 19 favorites by avatar or name.  Sometimes this prompts new and different discussions.

As GABE IN San Diego once said, it’s a bit like seeing friends in high school in here, sometimes after weeding out the rancor.

That actually isn’t exactly what he said, I’m just name-dropping.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 07/16/14 at 12:00 PM ET

Avatar

how about if we have to post our full names, phone numbers and addresses. That way, we can be accountable personally to what we say? I know I say mean things because it’s not really me saying these things it’s my avatar.

Actually, I’m kind of serious. If you want people to act like humans then there needs to be a way to hold people accountable - you know, make them real people. When people get to hide in the mob they are more likely to do devious and bad things. If people are know, they behave in ways that are more sympathetic or empathetic. Not too many people here actually use their real names. I’m for sure not HowetoHowe, but who really is that person?

It seems like what is going on now is people get their cake (having no accountability) around here while asking to eat it too (accountability from the Red Wings). I have no problem with the latter if people are willing to give something on the former.

George, is there a way to set up the verification for the forum to go to a cell phone number rather than an email? This would do two things, give you a direct link to a person if they become a problem and it weeds out the people who are not responsible enough to even own a phone. People willing to give out their phone number earn the responsibility to comment. Risk and reward.

Posted by howeandhowe on 07/16/14 at 12:07 PM ET

Avatar

Nice post Bugsy!

I consider it to be a privilage, not my right, to post on here. The comments section is where I go to kinda, sorta hang out with other Red Wing fans.

Guess there’s a price to pay for having so many passionate readers. If nothing else works I’d suggest going to the 3 strike rule. Maybe good to have something soon. This place will go ballistic if Cleary makes the team out of training camp big surprise

„Keep writing what you are writing. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don’t, but I love reading your stuff in either case. Even when I disagree, I am compelled to read it because it is good.“

Perfect.

Gute Arbeit George!

Posted by leftwing on 07/16/14 at 12:21 PM ET

Burr87's avatar

I’m somewhat surprised. This comment section is very mild say compared to a site like MLive. In fact I can’t say I’ve ever read some comment that I felt was over the line. ( I’m sure there has been at some point). Unfortunately this is the way of the internet comment sections. You can’t regulate stupidity. You can ask people people to be civil,but there will always be some a-hole who’s got an axe to grind. George, I appreciate your hard work and always find you give an honest opinion(whether I agree with it or not) that’s why I come here and follow you on the various media’s. Keep up the great work.

Posted by Burr87 on 07/16/14 at 12:29 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

Actually, I’m kind of serious. If you want people to act like humans then there needs to be a way to hold people accountable - you know, make them real people.
Posted by howeandhowe on 07/16/14 at 12:07 PM ET

That’s actually a good point, and interesting because some of the posters on TMR were first participants on Chief Houlihan’s (IWOCPO) A2Y column.  In fact 10-14 years ago a few like w2j2, Chief, me, even Paul KK himself used to wade through mlive Red Wings, and George Malik wrote articles there.  Paul and Chief knew there must be a better way to do this.

Many Early A2Y commenters actually have met in person, some multiple times, so there is that connection knowing the real person behind the avatar.  There is an active So Cal A2Y mafia when the Wings travel west.

We did a fund raiser to help fly one active participant from his home in Brasil, the Wings arranged for him to meet his favorite player in the lockerrom, he was interviewed on the JLA overhead screen between periods and by multiple TV stations, and used extra funds raised to contribute to the Children’s Hospital of Michigan.

We know when one of the familiar names goes off on somebody we also know that he/she is a good dude because we’ve met him or her and family in person.  Obviously most posters especially ones joined in the last 2-3 years have not met in person, so the impression is they are just snarky losers with nothing but negativism to write.  As you mention, internet anonymity can actually make people negative, snarky losers.

At sometime in the future there may be another reunion and fund raiser, “Herm2Hockeytown 4”, or something, so maybe more can meet in person.

 

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 07/16/14 at 01:02 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

“As you mention, internet anonymity can actually make people negative, snarky losers.”

Or does the internet merely allow people to show who they really are?

Do sports develop character or merely reveal it?

Too deep for me, I need some bacon and IPA.  ( but at work so can’t have it! )

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 07/16/14 at 01:10 PM ET

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A couple suggestions, George.

As with what other posters have written, maybe a key to improving civility here is to try to organize more interpersonal connection between members. These could be done to kill multiple birds with a single stone. For example, if, say a barbeque were organized, it could be organized as a fund raiser for the site and for helping you pay to go to development camp, prospect tournament, and training camp. On the one hand, you get the people to come together and meet in person, develop camaraderie, and also obtain the funds you need to attend various events.

A standard rules of behavior should be developed (or if already developed, should be prominent) for those looking to comment. In that vein, I suggest assembling a “jury” (if you will) of regular contributors to assess comments that are flagged as inflammatory. It’s basically you and Paul right now who, if one of you identifies something you don’t like, you guys prescribe and take action. What I think is, if there were a group of members in place responsible for responding to inflammatory comments, it makes it a more democratic process. You could have a primary group and a group of backups that can fill in if any of the regular jury members are out.

My guess is with some improvements, the actual need to call on the “jury” will be few and far between.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 07/16/14 at 01:30 PM ET

calquake's avatar

There is an active So Cal A2Y mafia when the Wings travel west.


Shhhh… you don’t want to end up like Luca Brasi.

Posted by calquake on 07/16/14 at 01:32 PM ET

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Surprised to hear that the comments section is an issue.  I’ve never seen something rising to Youtube-level hatred on TMR.  Maybe issue warnings to people who are getting overly hostile.  TMR should remain a thinking person’s hockey blog.

Posted by ianfdunham on 07/16/14 at 01:36 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

Shhhh… you don’t want to end up like Luca Brasi.
Posted by calquake on 07/16/14 at 01:32 PM ET

It is an honor to be invited to this, the wedding of your daughter.


Surprised to hear that the comments section is an issue.
Yes, I don’t think it’s that bad, we can recognize the habitual name-calling offenders and just skip them.

TMR should remain a thinking person’s hockey blog.
Posted by ianfdunham on 07/16/14 at 01:36 PM ET

Whoa whoa, what did I do to get excluded?

 

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 07/16/14 at 01:44 PM ET

calquake's avatar

TMR should remain a thinking person’s hockey blog.

Posted by ianfdunham on 07/16/14 at 01:36 PM ET

That is going to exclude a lot of people… present company included.

Posted by calquake on 07/16/14 at 01:48 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

I’ve read some really nasty things on other blogs. TMR is pretty tame in comparison. And, when I need a good chuckle I venture over here to read the fighting. I find it amusing.

I don’t comment often here but I have been lately. I appreciate having TMR, and I usually will comment then go on my way. I avoid dust ups with other members.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 07/16/14 at 02:44 PM ET

Bradley97's avatar

re: Comments-

Names should be at the top, near the avatar. I tend to scroll down before I read a comment because sometimes I’m just not in the mood to read what some members have to say. That’s not meant to be an insult, rather my personal way of handling the “boor” issue alwaysaurie mentioned.

As for behavior, there is a reason I use my real name. When I post something, I’m signing it. I am responsible for what I write. I believe that to be the first line of defense. It’s no different than being in a room full of people having various discussions. Everyone sees me, so if I start yelling and making a fool of myself I can never live that down.

re: Shanahan-

Remember when Scotty was here and there was always a rookie fighting another rookie or sophomore for at least one if not multiple spots on the roster?

Off the top of my head:

Holmstrom, Ward, Pusher, A. Ericsson, Dandenault, Knuble (‘95-‘98)

Fisher, Datsyuk, Williams (‘99-‘02)

Zetterberg (‘03) - yeah, post Scotty, but Lewis kept this philosophy

Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Kronwall (‘05-‘06) - Scotty as advisor

Scotty left room for kids to break into the roster. The 13th forward and 7th defenseman were almost always a kid.

For some reason Holland has gotten used to overbuilding the roster the last few years (worried about injuries in camp and the preseason), and it’s made it next to impossible for the kids to break through to the point that Tatar spoke out (good for him, somebody had to). Scotty didn’t overbuild, these are very different philosophies. Scotty was willing to go with youth to start the season and looking for vets via trade when needed. It’s time the Wings got back to that, now that the farm has been restocked. The point of the farm is to have players that make the team and players that are traded to other teams. Dombrowski laid it out when he came to town: one third make the team, one third are trade bait, and one third don’t make it.

It seems the problem did start when Holland’s mentor left to join his son in Chicago. That’s when the overbuilding with vets to start the season began.

Posted by Bradley97 on 07/16/14 at 02:46 PM ET

awould's avatar

Posted by Bradley97 on 07/16/14 at 02:46 PM ET

Yeah, I think you’ve got a very good point regarding the spot for the kids that Bowman kept, and that has been shut down of late. Seems to be a good philosophy to give the kids something tangible to aspire to. Doesn’t mean you have to get away from the ‘over ripening’ method necessarily, but it keeps both the kids and the lower-line veterans motivated.

Posted by awould on 07/16/14 at 03:02 PM ET

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If you want to rein it in, start with numero uno.  Don’t &%$#@*& all over the page.  Don’t tell men to go (gulp) another man’s (bleep). 

As was said yesterday, there is some culpability here. I’d actually say there’s more than “some”: You are the site’s most vulgar offender.  Yet you are also the one most often pointing the finger, even when the conversation (like yesterday’s) is wholly civil.

Act like a professional and perhaps you will be treated like one.  My goodness, maybe the Wings will even credential you for actual games if you could show even the slightest level of “thick skin” or decorum.

Posted by jkm2011 on 07/16/14 at 03:18 PM ET

Jaromir Blogger's avatar

I personally feel that the best solution is to delete the comments section on each post altogether and open up a separate forum page.

Posted by Jaromir Blogger on 07/16/14 at 03:22 PM ET

Sanity's avatar

As a newcomer/outsider to this clique, I have a different viewpoint: it is hilariously hypocritical of Mr. Malik to want to censor comments over an article which deals about the DRW censoring opinions…

Posted by Sanity on 07/16/14 at 03:46 PM ET

awould's avatar

As a newcomer/outsider to this clique, I have a different viewpoint: it is hilariously hypocritical of Mr. Malik to want to censor comments over an article which deals about the DRW censoring opinions…

Posted by Sanity on 07/16/14 at 03:46 PM ET

Nobody wants to censor comments.

The aim is to keep the discourse to a reasonable level of civility because, apparently, there are some who cross the line too often and ruin it for the rest of us and, allegedly, keeps some population away from the blog because of their delicate sensibilities.

I could use with less of the overt name-calling, but only because it makes me think less of the poster. Probably a good thing to shoot out a reminder from time to time, and call some people out periodically just as standard practice though. Which Paul does. I’ve been called out personally once, via email, not very harshly, and he was entirely within bounds to do so, even if I didn’t necessarily agree. I moved on and kept it in mind. There are others I won’t name who seem to have toned down their rhetoric a bit and I think they must’ve gotten the message either from Paul or from being called out on it constantly by other members. There are one or two that I’m convinced must be 15 years old and seem to be beyond help in the communication department.

As for the people who love the blog but find the comments too distasteful to join. I think that’s gotta be exaggerated. Not calling you a liar, George, but c’mon… I have a hard time believing there are many Michiganders who are that easily offended. The comments aren’t abusive relative to many other blogs, and compared to the internet as a whole it’s a friggin’ lovefest. If their issue is the comments are too cliquey and the opinions too strong, then we don’t need’em. I love seeing new names pop up and usually go out of my way to engage them in a friendly manner. I’ve never seen anyone use the term ‘newbie’ or some other private-club type crap to exclude a newcomer. The more the merrier, I say, and I get the feeling most other active members agree.

Posted by awould on 07/16/14 at 04:05 PM ET

Bradley97's avatar

I love seeing new names pop up and usually go out of my way to engage them in a friendly manner. I’ve never seen anyone use the term ‘newbie’ or some other private-club type crap to exclude a newcomer. The more the merrier, I say, and I get the feeling most other active members agree.

Posted by awould on 07/16/14 at 04:05 PM ET

I remember how I was welcomed with open arms by the 19 when I made my first posts on A2Y while waiting for TMR to be set up. This site is tame compared to MLive, where I first started following George and Khan regularly. And even A2Y was clearly all in good fun to my newcomer eyes at the time, likely because of the camaraderie created by the 19 actually meeting in person and getting to know one another, as already pointed out.

Still, we do have an issue of some people forgetting we are all human beings behind our names/alias’ and avatars. I can see where newer readers and potential members who are perhaps not used to the venomous atmosphere of the Net would be turned away even from this relatively tame community. I only peruse the comments at MLive when there is a Q&A that extends past the original article because I get bored of the same vitriol being spewed about regularly.

While I have thick enough skin to post, let alone not care if others lambast me, I shouldn’t need to have that thick skin to have a friendly discussion about the game I love. That’s really the point of all of this. Certain language needs to be toned down, perhaps by all parties, and it certainly would not hurt to for people to use more smileys when they are having fun.  raspberry

Posted by Bradley97 on 07/16/14 at 04:59 PM ET

cowboycoffee's avatar

I’ve been reading you daily since before Mlive. When you moved here, I moved with the rest of your readers. It was always a refreshing honest yin to the yang of arrogance and flatulence from the A2Y crowd. You write from your mind, heart, and gut unlike the other blog which always seems to write from it’s balls.

In the last 16 months, things have really changed. A lot of the commenters from A2Y have come in here. Most have really improved the dialogue. It’s been fun. And its changed how i think about their place. But with that, and the fact that you’ve been linked on bigger sites, the riffraff has come in too. That’s been difficult. And as a daily reader for so long, I see how that’s affected you. This worries me the most as the last thing i want is you to change how you write. That’s what brings us back every damn day.

Creating a comment section here like one on MLive or PuckDaddy would be a big mistake. Being able to comment on peoples crap posts will drive up web hits, but it will create even more flame throwing amongst its users. And it will bring in more. Oddly, i was part of a group brought in to test the new MLive and give opinions on how i used it. They knew what they were doing with the comments section. They knew doing it that way would bring the hits ($). I don’t know about you, but i can’t stomach going there any more. It’s out of control.

I think you need to wield the hammer of doom on the jerks. Yeah, everyone deserves a voice, but there’s a time when you just need to shut them up.

Posted by cowboycoffee from San Francisco, CA on 07/16/14 at 05:05 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Some have mentioned that this site isn’t too bad compared to others.  True.  But why not try to improve the comments section?

Example: I participate in two blogs: this one and HomeBrewTalk. When I first started reading HBT, I couldn’t believe how nice everyone was compared to posters here. They have a few moderators, and I believe a code of conduct. But my observations in comparing the two is that ultimately respect breeds respect; when someone craps the bed though it ruins the atmosphere and things begin to go downhill.

Posted by TreKronor on 07/16/14 at 07:32 PM ET

awould's avatar

Posted by TreKronor on 07/16/14 at 07:32 PM ET

I think there’s a difference between a hobby-related blog where everyone is talking about their mutual interest, and probably more trying to help one another out as opposed to a sport fan blog where everyone has strong opinions about the team, players, management, etc…. conflict arises naturally. Maybe I’m wrong about the hobby blogs though….

Posted by awould on 07/16/14 at 07:35 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

I think there’s a difference between a hobby-related blog where everyone is talking about their mutual interest, and probably more trying to help one another out as opposed to a sport fan blog

Yes, but at times there are similarities and debates.  Just citing an example where people can have a large disagreement but do it respectfully. And with ample use of smiley faces smile

Posted by TreKronor on 07/16/14 at 07:52 PM ET

awould's avatar

Posted by TreKronor on 07/16/14 at 07:52 PM ET

Lager is best!
NO, YOU’RE WRONG IDIOT!! Pilsner!
Ok, you’re right. smile

Posted by awould on 07/16/14 at 07:56 PM ET

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In my opinion the vast majority of posters on this forum are knowledgeable and passionate and defend their point of view without any personal attacks. Those very very few who cannot refrain from using foul language lack manners and sometimes education, so I ignore them.
I also agree with the opinion that this forum is more civil than some others. In mlive you basically cannot have a different opinion than a few “chosen” ones as they immediately tell the moderator that you are “somebody else” and get you banned. And I think different opinions are good for discussion.
Obviously this Cleary signing inflamed some discussions and I think in a week or two when the wounds from this signing will not be so fresh, the discussion will be even more calm.
And George is doing a fantastic job of collection all pieces of news about the team we love, so no need to go anywhere else really.

Posted by VPalmer on 07/16/14 at 09:21 PM ET

Bradley97's avatar

And with ample use of smiley faces smile

Posted by TreKronor on 07/16/14 at 07:52 PM ET

Now that’s what I’m talkin’ ‘bout!  zipper

Posted by Bradley97 on 07/16/14 at 10:20 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.