Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Red Wings mid-day news: contract talk and more draft profiles

Updated 4x with more Lecavalier talk at 3:14 PM: We can't have one without the other, as noted in the overnight report, so, while Red Wings GM Ken Holland told the Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness that he was going to do what most GM's are doing this Canada day--going home and catching up on some sleep after four marathon days (starting with Thursday's Board of Governors meetings; KH and crew can place any of their cap compliance buy-out candidates on waivers as late as 5 PM on Thursday)--he has a to-do list, as the Detroit News's Ted Kulfan notes:

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland met with the agents for potential unrestricted free-agent forwards Damien Brunner, Valtteri Filppula and Daniel Cleary over the weekend, but progress on new deals was slow.

All three can become unrestricted free agents on July 5.

There was speculation leading into the weekend the Red Wings would trade Filppula’s rights, but that didn’t happen.

Holland will deal with the logjam of forwards this week. When restricted free agents Gustav Nyquist and Joakim Andersson ultimately sign, the Red Wings will have 14 forwards — not counting the above three.

The Red Wings could alleviate the logjam with a buyout in the next few days, candidates being Jordin Tootoo or Mikael Samuelsson.

Thanks to a new quirk in the CBA, the Wings' UFA's and RFA's alike can speak to other teams between today and the 5th, and they aren't allowed to officially re-sign with Detroit until the 5th. Like you, I'm worried about the possibility of Brunner leaving, and was disappointed in Holland's intransigence regarding cutting ties with Filppula.

I guess it wasn't surprising, however, that the Wings decided to hold on to a UFA-to-be who told YLE.fi that staying with the Wings would be a no-brainer if there was no salary cap, but that in the short window that a professional athlete has to make money, one must admit that it's a motivating factor.

Regarding some Wings who may have played their last game for Detroit for other reasons, I for one am hoping that both Darren Helm, who will attend next week's summer development camp, and Todd Bertuzzi, whose nephew, Tyler, was drafted by the Wings last week, are both healthy, productive members of the Wings going forward...

And I thought that this exchange between the Free Press's Helene St. James and Bertuzzi--and yes, this is a repeat--was sweet and genuine:

Tyler and Todd Bertuzzi could be skating together come September’s training camp, as young draft picks usually overlap a few days into the main team’s scrimmages. "I'm hoping so," Bertuzzi said. "That'd be pretty cool — a big, old one and little, young one."

Bertuzzi is cognizant, though, that his name has come up in compliance buyout chatter. If that happens, it'd be this coming week. He's 38, and coming off a season that saw him sidelined from early February on by back and leg pain. He came back to play briefly in the playoffs, and said he's now training and skating.

He hasn't heard from general manager Ken Holland, but, "I'm not young, I understand everything, I understand it's a business," Bertuzzi said. "But if does happen, it would break my heart."

I never thought I'd say this about a man who was once despised in Detroit, but, "Me, too."

 

 

Regarding another, "May have played his last game in Detroit" Wing, DetroitRedWings.com's Bill Roose penned an ironic "By the Numbers" summation of Cleary's 2013 season. Three of the six numbers he offers explain why Cleary probably won't re-sign, as well as why the Wings are still talking to him:

48: For the first time in his career, he played in every game during the regular season, albeit a lockout-shortened campaign. He was one of four Wings to play in every game, joining Niklas Kronwall, Justin Abdelkader and Cory Emmerton.

He's been so banged-up over the course of his Red Wings career...

However:

10:The number of points (four goals, six assists) that he produced in 14 postseason games for the Red Wings. Only Henrik Zetterberg (12) had more points in the playoffs.

...

25: The number of total hits he delivered during 14 playoff games, ranking second among the Red Wings' forwards in the category. He had six hits in Game 1 vs. Chicago.

If playoff Daniel Cleary showed up in even 60% of his regular season games, the Wings would re-sign him in a heartbeat, but he plays through so many chronic injuries to his knees and groin (degenerative ones in the case of his knees), and...guys like Tatar, Nyquist and Andersson have earned their shot.

It sucks to have to cut ties with a heart-and-soul foot-soldier like Cleary, but I think it's going to happen and that it's necessary, regrettably.

 

 

In news regarding a foot soldier of a different kind, as noted in two rumor posts on KK early this morning, the Wings are going to have to wait as Vincent Lecavalier picks through a list of something like 13 teams and pare that down to 3 or 4, and if we are to believe ESPN's Pierre LeBrun and TSN's Darren Dreger, Lecavalier is looking for up to $5 million per season over 5 seasons, at 34 make that 33 years of age, no less.

Sportsline's Adam Gretz pondered Lecavalier's terms, possible impact and the "fits" his suitors could provide him with:

The Tampa Bay Lightning decided to use one of their two cap compliance buyouts on Vincent Lecavalier this past week, starting a free-agent frenzy for the veteran forward who is now easily the best player available on the open market.

He's not the player who compiled 50 goals and 100 points a few seasons back or the player who was the focal point of a Stanley Cup winning team, but he's still an extremely gifted and productive player who's going to help the team that he lands on. He has averaged .83 points per game over the past five full seasons, which puts him in the top 40 among all NHL players.

He probably wasn't a great investment for Tampa Bay at more than $7 million per year anymore, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a great fit for somebody at $4 million or $5 million per year.

Even though he's not eligible to sign with a new team until Friday, he can speak with teams before then. And it seems that just about everybody wants him, is rumored to want him, should want him or has already met with him.

Here's his take on the Wings' "fit":

Detroit Red Wings: Now here's a team that might make some sense.

The Red Wings exceeded most expectations last season in what was somewhat of a rebuilding year and have some really nice young players starting to make an impact in the league. And as long as they have Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Niklas Kronwall, Jimmy Howard and Johan Franzen on the roster, they're going to be capable of putting together a run. They're probably going to lose Valtteri Filppula to free agency, and they're still loaded with salary-cap space that they could easily fit Lecavalier's contract demands into.

The Red Wings seem to have a way of squeezing every last drop of productive hockey out of veterans.

I don't call the Wings the Belle Tire of hockey for nothing. I've never seen a team get more miles out of players who were supposedly playing on bald tires, from Igor Larionov, Larry Murphy, Dino Ciccarelli, Chris Chelios and Mike Vernon to Fredrik Olausson, Doug Brown and Bob Rouse, and if Lecavalier wants $4 million a year instead of simply fattening his wallet (see: Dallas, Florida, Philly) and wants to play in a place where the rabid hockey fandom and Original Six mystique are balanced out by our open, spread-out-over-a-geographical-area-larger-than-Connecticut meetro area and Midwestern politeness, affording Lecavalier at least a semi-private life instead of living in the "fishbowls" of Montreal and Toronto, Detroit is an excellent fit...

But I can't help but think that he's going to chase money and/or decide that he has to prove that he's still "the guy."

Truth is, there is more interest in where Vinny Lecavlier is going to sign after Tampa bought him out. Half the league’s teams talked to Lecavalier as a No. 2 centre, which frankly astounded him, but if teams can sign him for between $4 million and $5 million, well off his $7.7 million cap hit in Tampa,  they are all throwing their lines in the water. I think it’ll come down to Montreal, Detroit, Dallas and San Jose, but that’s just a wild guess.

 

 

In terms of the newest members of the Red Wings' family, in the social media department...

And building upon yesterday's crop of draft articles, Fox Sports Detroit's Art Regner raved about the jewel in the crown of a draft class that I would best describe as a little preoccupied with size and grit as opposed to skill (and he profiles each and every one of the Wings' 8 new prospects in his article):

Heading into Sunday's 2013 NHL Entry Draft, the Detroit Red Wings were adamant that their top priority with their first-round pick would be a goal-scoring forward with size. Trading two spots down from 18th to 20th in the first round, it appears the Wings have their man in Anthony Mantha, a 6-foot-4, 190-pound left wing who led the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League with 50 goals.

Considered to have a high hockey IQ, Mantha is a natural goal scorer and the grandson of former Red Wings forward Andre Pronovost.

Aaron Vickers of Future Consideration offered this assessment of Mantha:

"Mantha brings a great deal of size that he’s able to use effectively due to his impressive athleticism.  Make no mistake about it, though, Mantha’s strength comes in his ability to find the back of the net.  Few have the combination of accuracy and strength the way Mantha does, whose only major flaw comes with the consistency of his level of compete."

If anything, Mantha seems to exude confidence, telling the assembled press corps at the draft that he plans on making the Detroit roster next season. 

Red Wings GM Ken Holland has always maintained that you never know what you really have in a player until you see him play in the “Men’s League,” as he likes to refer to the NHL. But you have to believe that the Wings were a bit stunned to have Mantha fall to the 20th pick.

Michigan Hockey's Michael Caples profiled Mantha, too:

Despite being the only 50-goal scorer in the QMJHL last season, there were still some doubts surrounding Anthony Mantha’s game when the Red Wings selected him 20th overall in the NHL Draft. Mantha, a forward from Longueuil, Quebec, is determined to prove his critics wrong, however.

“I’ll show the Red Wings that they picked the right guy,” Mantha said during his media interviews following his selection.

NHL Central Scouting rated Mantha the No. 10 North American-born skater in both their midterm and final projections. He recorded 50 goals and 39 assists in 67 QMJHL contests. The Red Wings traded their original No. 18 pick down for the No. 20 and No. 58 picks before selecting Mantha.

“It’s a great feeling,” Mantha said. “The pressure all comes down. Just living the moment right now, it’s great.”

Mantha confessed that he was a Canadiens fan growing up.

“I come from Montreal so I always followed Montreal more than Detroit, but it’s a great honor to be part of Detroit,” their latest first-round pick said.

However, Mantha is familiar with the Original Six team out of Detroit. His grandfather, Andre Pronovost, captured four Stanley Cups during his NHL career, and skated for the Red Wings for parts of three seasons.

“It’s really an honor,” Mantha said of being drafted by one of his grandfather’s former teams. “Words really can’t come, but it’s just being there and showing them what I’m able to do. It’s just something that’s great for me.”

MLive's Ansar Khan provides profiles of several of the prospects picked after Mantha in his slate of draft "capsules"...

Second round (58th): Tyler Bertuzzi, left wing, 6-0, 178 (Guelph, OHL) – The Red Wings surprised many by taking the scrappy forward, the nephew of Detroit's Todd Bertuzzi, this high. He was projected to go lower.

“I think he's a bit of a rat,'' McDonnell said. “He’s an Andrew Shaw kind of guy, and he’s real hard to play against. He had some injuries early and mid-season and I don’t know if a lot of teams really paid attention to him later in the year, when he really took over. He’s just a real hard guy to play against and we really wanted him in the organization.''

Third round (79th): Mattias Janmark-Nylen, center, 6-1, 189 (AIK, Swedish Elite League) – He caught the eye of Red Wings' director of European scouting Hakan Andersson in 2011-12, when he set a Swedish junior scoring record with 61 points in 40 games before being promoted to the Elite League.

“I think he was their second-best scorer (for AIK), so he played really well,'' Andersson said. “He was rewarded by playing a couple of exhibition games on the Swedish national team, which is pretty good as a 20-year-old. Good skater, works hard, has ability with the puck, has some hands and hockey sense. Needs to beef up. He's a bit of a kid still. He doesn't have a detailed plan yet that he's going to be a pro. He just plays because he loves it. There's potential for sure.''

...

Seventh round (199th): Hampus Melen, right wing, 6-2, 165 (Tyngsryd, Swedish Juniors) – Andersson said Melen set a Swedish Junior B points record.

“Works hard and has very good hands and hockey sense, but needs to beef up a lot,'' Andersson said. “Good thing about that is I met him a couple of times in February and we talked about nutrition. He hired a personal trainer and the last two months he's gone from 147 to 160. The parents told his agent, 'Something has happened to Hampus.' It looks like he's on a mission. He's so much determined.''

And RedWingsCentral's main draft article has been supplemented with profiles of BCHL winger David Pope, who's going to play in the USHL before heading to the University of Nebraska-Omaha...

The Red Wings selected the 6-foot-2, 187-pound left-winger in the fourth round (109th overall) from the West Kelowna Warriors of the British Columbia Hockey League junior A circuit, landing a prospect who is headed the NCAA route at Nebraska-Omaha starting in 2014-15.

Pope averaged close to a point per game last season with 17 goals and 22 assists for 39 points in 42 games and the Red Wings list his shooting ability is his No. 1 asset.

“He’s got, in my opinion, an NHL shot and release,” said Red Wings scout Jeff Finley. “He’s got a great shot. Hopefully, he’ll be a scorer. He has the shot to be a scorer and he has the natural offensive instincts to be a scorer. He knows where to go, how to find space, and he’s creative.”

Finley said Pope plays an “up-and-down game” and is “good down low and along the walls.” But he also said Pope is extremely slender despite his height and that “a lot of times, he’d just get out-muscled.”

Defenseman Mitchell Wheaton, the second Kelowna Rockets-playing Mitchell the Wings have drafted (with the other being Mitchell Callahan)...

[If] you’re expecting the burly 6-foot-4, 230-pound Kelowna Rockets defenseman to be a punishing bruiser who drops the gloves at a moment’s notice, you’ve got the wrong guy.

“He’s a real intelligent defender,” said Red Wings scout Jeff Finley. “Thinks the game really well and moves the puck really well for a big guy. He’s physical, but I wouldn’t call him punishing.”

Wheaton, selected by the Red Wings in the fifth round, 139th overall, saw his draft year shortened by a shoulder injury. He appeared in 39 games as a WHL rookie, recording a goal, seven assists, one fighting major and a plus-20 rating on a strong team before suffering a shoulder injury on Jan. 24.

Although he briefly returned for the WHL playoffs despite requiring surgery — doctors “told him he couldn’t make it any worse,” Finley said — the injury limited his exposure to scouts.

As well as defenseman Marc McNulty, who's just as "big" as Wheaton, but not nearly as strong:

[T]he 6-foot-6, 185-pound Prince George Cougars blueliner lasted all the way to the sixth round, 159th overall, on Sunday, where the Red Wings were happy to find themselves selecting a rangy two-way prospect with plenty of upside.

McNulty had eight goals, seven assists and 70 penalty minutes in 52 games in his first full WHL season, at times flashing his immense potential but other times doing little to set himself apart.

“A lot of nights, he just didn’t play with the intensity he needed to play with all the time,” said Red Wings scout Jeff Finley.

But when McNulty did set himself apart, he looked like a future NHLer. Although still rail-thin at this early stage in his career, McNulty jumps out at you on the ice with the amount of ice he covers in his own zone.

“He’s tall and super lanky, he’s got an incredibly long reach using a long stick, and what I like about him is, he already understands how to use his reach to his advantage,” Finley said. “He’s got a great wing-span, and he keeps guys to the outside, covering a lot of space.”

In the prospect multimedia department, Red Wings Prospects on Twitter found a slate of Janmark-Nylen highlights...

And if you want a wallpaper-sized image of Anthony Mantha posing with the Wings' scouts, GM and coach, enjoy (clicky on picture-y):

 

 

And finally, as I'm going to take the rest of the day very quietly, I'll leave you with...Something to think about?

Update: SI's Allan Muir dished the following draft grade to the EASTERN conference's Red Wings...

Detroit Red Wings: They picked up the Q’s only 50-goal scorer in Anthony Mantha (20). He needs to work on his consistency and battle levels, but you can’t teach hands like his. Zach Nastasiuk (48) was a fast riser heading into the draft. He’s one of those kids who does all the little things right. His grit and work ethic will make him a reliable bottom-six guy. Tyler Bertuzzi (58) is meaner than his uncle Todd. He’s as good an agitator as could be had in this draft. B

And if you missed it, ESPN's Grant Sonier offered this take on the Wings' haul:

Detroit Red Wings: B+

Anthony Mantha was the only 50-goal scorer in the draft and the Wings will bring this talented winger along slowly, as is their M.O. If everything comes together with his maturity and a willingness to play hard consistently, he could be a big-time goal scorer in Motown. I liked their second-round picks as well. Zach Nastasiuk from Owen Sound of the OHL adds size and work ethic and Tyler Bertuzzi was an honorable mention on my top 50. He is as gritty a player there was on the board and in time will do whatever it takes to make the Wings.

 

Update #2: RedWingsCentral's filed an article about Mantha (via RedWingsFeed):

“I saw him a couple of times where he was dominant,” said Red Wings scout Jeff Finley. “He takes the puck wide and can beat defensemen, take it to the net … he has a knack for finding open ice and he has a good shot and release. I wouldn’t label him as just a scorer, either. He’s creative and he can see the ice and make plays. He’s a gifted all-around offensive player.”

TSN scout and former NHL general manager Craig Button went as far as to compare Mantha to Pittsburgh Penguins 40-goal-scorer James Neal and the Red Wings would be overjoyed if Mantha panned out that well.

There’s very little not to like about him in the offensive zone.

“I like the size, the skating — he’s got lots of speed and mobility for a big guy — he can shoot on the fly and his hockey sense is good,” said Red Wings scout Mario Marois. “He can play any style he wants offensively. He is very good down low, too. He has a good shot, he protects the puck well.”

But the knocks on Mantha come fast and furious from some scouts. One told The Hockey News under cover of anonymity that “he’s not the most eager kid. Some nights you wonder where the intensity is.” Piled on Red Line Report chief scout Kyle Woodlief via USA Today: “Does this guy even have a pulse? Plays with absolutely zero fire or passion.”

Update #3: The Free Press's Brian Manzullo noted that CBS Sports' Chris Peters gave the Wings a B+, too:

Pick 20 Anthony Mantha B+

The Red Wings did well to get a high-end goal scorer at No. 20, while also collecting a second-rounder from San Jose. Mantha scored 50 goals in the QMJHL last year and is 6-foot-4. I've heard some doubts about his overall upside and if the scoring will translate at the NHL level, but that type of production is worth taking a chance on, especially at this range.

 

Update #4: MLive's Ansar Khan profiles Lecavalier in his latest "Free Agent Focus" article:

Strengths: Big center with tremendous reach who can control the puck down low and has good vision. He can set up linemates and finish himself. Has good leadership ability. A star player who is willing to fight on occasion.

Weaknesses: His skills are in decline at age 33 and there are concerns about his pace. Can he play an up-tempo game and get up and down the ice? He has not been durable the past three seasons, missing 44 games with injuries.

Notable: He was the top overall pick by Tampa Bay in 1998 entry draft. … Won the Stanley Cup with the Lightning in 2004, but his team has appeared in the playoffs only three times in eight seasons since then.

Why he would interest the Red Wings: They will be seeking a second-line center to replace Valtteri Filppula, who is all but certain to leave as a free agent.

How he could fit in with the Red Wings: By anchoring the second line, he would enable Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg to play together on the top unit. When those stars are split, Lecavalier would likely be teamed with Zetterberg. Lecavalier would be on the second power-play unit.

What it might take to get him: Some teams are told that he is seeking a five-year deal worth $5 million per season. That is a longer term and more money than the Red Wings would give. Many other clubs – including Montreal, Toronto, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Dallas, San Jose and Calgary – have shown interest. He met with several, including the Red Wings, over the weekend at the NHL entry draft. He is expected to trim his list of preferred destinations in the next day or two and perhaps visit those clubs.

What is the maximum term and highest salary the Red Wings should offer Lecavalier, if they even get into the bidding? Is he the ideal second-line replacement for Filppula? Or do his declining production and lack of durability raise too many red flags?

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Comments

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Mandingo's avatar

My bunion’s telling me the Wings are going to re-sign Filppula and Cleary, lose Brunner, and lose out on Lecavlier.

Seems pretty obvious that, contrary to most reports, the Wings and Filppula are trying hard to get a deal done. If there was “no chance” as we’ve been led to believe all along, he’d have been flipped at the draft for a bag of dog food and a firm handshake.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/01/13 at 02:10 PM ET

Mandingo's avatar

I’ll say this much, if the Wings do end up re-signing Filppula, it really makes me question the level of access or discernment our local sportswriters actually have, because every single one of them wrote their own “Filppula has played his last game as a Red Wing” stories…

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/01/13 at 02:14 PM ET

Avatar

My bunion’s telling me the Wings are going to re-sign Filppula and Cleary, lose Brunner, and lose out on Lecavlier.

I’m thinking that exact thing myself.

Posted by godblender on 07/01/13 at 02:18 PM ET

Avatar

Also, I won’t be shocked if Holland doesn’t use EITHER of his buy-outs.

Posted by godblender on 07/01/13 at 02:27 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

My bunion’s telling me the Wings are going to re-sign Filppula and Cleary, lose Brunner, and lose out on Lecavlier.

I really hope you are having hearing problems…  except i think my hemorrhoid is saying the same thing.

Posted by SnLO from beyond the M-1 on 07/01/13 at 02:29 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

I would like to see Kenny throw $5.5 and 4 years at Vinny and see if it sticks.  It’s good money for a top notch Center and 4 years isn’t “too long” so it wouldn’t saddle the Wings with a huge burden if Vinny ends up being a log once he turns 36 and it’s not too short as to make him feel like he’s “Trying out” for a team.

‘Something has happened to Hampus

  I need to write a novel with this as its title.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/01/13 at 02:36 PM ET

Mandingo's avatar

I would like to see Kenny throw $5.5 and 4 years at Vinny and see if it sticks.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/01/13 at 02:36 PM ET

I think that’s probably $1 million a year too much and one year too long, but it wouldn’t kill me.

Doesn’t matter though. Some desperate train wreck of a team (hello Calgary) is going to throw something absolutely ridiculous at him. And he’s already got a cup, so he doesn’t have as much of an impetus to take a lesser deal.

I would be completely shocked if Lecavlier ends up with the Wings.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/01/13 at 02:43 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

I’m tired of seeing Kenny Holland procrastinate like he does.  “We don’t have to make a decision on buy-outs until thursday so I can sleep for a few days before I have to make a decision”

Probably did that before sending Quincey through waivers to keep Meech. 

Did that with the rights to Flip, knowing what he’s asking for and term, and instead of moving him before the deadline we opted to use him in the playoffs (where’s he’s not known to produce) but here we are and now we’re seeing VL is asking for the same thing as Filpulla and Holland seems blaise about a real 20 goal 70 point or better player and instead of dealing Flips rights, we “kicked the tires” on VL, just wasn’t a match, so we gave his money to Filpulla and that’ll be like signing a UFA.  This time he’ll actually let them become a UFA before resigning just so he doesn’t have to say “it’s like”

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/01/13 at 03:21 PM ET

Avatar

HTO
Exactly. It would be nice to see Holland make some kind of hard decision about something rather than wait for everyone else tell him about decisions made. So much for pursuing improvements of any type.

Posted by teldar on 07/01/13 at 03:54 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Exactly. It would be nice to see Holland make some kind of hard decision about something rather than wait for everyone else tell him about decisions made. So much for pursuing improvements of any type.

Posted by teldar on 07/01/13 at 03:54 PM ET

You mean like going all in on Suter & Parise last year?

The Wings didn’t get them, but that’s about as all-in as it gets.

Posted by SK77 on 07/01/13 at 04:01 PM ET

perfection's avatar

shhh @some kid… don’t muddle the conversation with reality. i’ve been reprimanded around here for that kind of stuff.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 07/01/13 at 04:08 PM ET

Wings_in_NYC's avatar

I’m sure Flip and Cleary will be back. And, hey, a healthy Sammy and Helm are totally like signing two free agents. Kenny can officially go on summer vacation. This team is set! Woo Hoo!!

Posted by Wings_in_NYC on 07/01/13 at 04:15 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

You fracking bastards are depressing the hell out of me!

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/01/13 at 04:16 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

There is good news, we are injecting new vocabulary into the blog.

Hampus.
Impetus.
Fracking.

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/01/13 at 04:18 PM ET

LivinLaVidaLockout's avatar

I’m sure Flip and Cleary will be back. And, hey, a healthy Sammy and Helm are totally like signing two free agents. Kenny can officially go on summer vacation. This team is set! Woo Hoo!!
   
    Posted by
     
    Wings_in_NYC
     
      on 07/01/13 at 04:15 PM ET

I like our team.

Posted by LivinLaVidaLockout on 07/01/13 at 04:22 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

Here is a question I do not have an answer to yet.

What is the determining authority on whether a player is injured or not relating to the ability of a team to buy him out?

If Samuelson is not on the LT IR, the The Red Wings can consider him not injured and qualifed to being bought out.

What if he and his agent claim that Samuelson is still injured, can they prevent the Red Wings from buying him out?

Who is the determining authority on what is injured or not regarding a team’s ability to buy out a player with a compliance my out?

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/01/13 at 04:22 PM ET

NIVO's avatar

There is good news, we are injecting new vocabulary into the blog.

Hampus.
Impetus.
Fracking.

Posted by RWBill from the open bar on The Hasek. on 07/01/13 at 04:18 PM ET

Unpossible!

Posted by NIVO from underpants gnome village on 07/01/13 at 04:51 PM ET

Avatar

You mean like going all in on Suter & Parise last year?

The problem with that is the same problem they’ll have with Lecavalier.  He didn’t go all out for them, he eventually brought his offers up to be comparable with other teams’ offers.  From all accounts, the Wings undercut every offer for Suter out of the gate and WAY undercut on their offer for Parise, so while they eventually did match the offers of other teams, they started out a step behind.  Going all out is what Minnesota did from the first second of free agency.

Seems like that’s already happening with Lecavalier too.  They’re supposed only interested in giving him a two year deal.  What the hell are they thinking?

What did he say when asked about playing for the Wings?  He said they were his favourite team growing up, along with the Canadiens.  We’ve already heard a lot of anecdotal evidence in the past that says he doesn’t want to play in Montreal, so he practically gift wrapped himself for Ken Holland, and what does Holland do?  Instead of embracing him and saying “Hey, we’ve got Datsyuk for the next four years, wouldn’t it be amazing to play out the rest of your career with him?”, he says “Hey, we just invested in Jakub Kindl—our number five or six or seven defenseman—for the next four years, but we don’t believe in you enough to give you any more than half that term.”

Someone has got to knock some sense into this guy…

Posted by Garth on 07/01/13 at 04:55 PM ET

TheFreak's avatar

Maybe Holland talked to Yzerman to get an inside scoop on Vinny. And after said discussion, maybe Holland thinks that’s all he wants to risk Vinny. Eh, who knows.

Posted by TheFreak on 07/01/13 at 05:04 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Posted by Garth on 07/01/13 at 04:55 PM ET

So what you’re saying is KH ultimately offered the same money & terms to two players who in the end signed where they’d be closer to home. Which KH could do nothing about—but in the end the Wings were still the only other team either of those players seriously considered.

But ... so back to your ... point. If KH had offered the same contract he ultimately offered on day one, it would have turned out any different?

Oh, let me guess, you’d find something else to gripe about like how Holland was too lazy to move the Suter family farm and should be fired?

Posted by SK77 on 07/01/13 at 05:12 PM ET

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I’d love to know what kind of “package” Holland threw at Gillis with regards to acquiring Edler. It was probably Cola and their 3rd rounder.


Yesterday Chicago traded Frolik and Bolland, neither of whom are elite players by any stretch, for FIVE extra draft picks. Chicago has been bulking up on draft picks for a few years now by trading expendable players away at the draft. What would the return on Filppula’s rights have been, who knows…but if Bolland’s was two 3rds and a 4th I’m sure Fil would’ve gotten similar. Then you can use those extra picks for leverage in additional trades if you choose, or just keep them and stockpile assets. Both are a hell of a lot better than the alternative of re-signing Filppula or letting him walk FOR NOTHING. Filppula should not be on this team next season. I don’t care if he’s willing to take $3.5 per year, which he damn sure isn’t.

Posted by godblender on 07/01/13 at 05:24 PM ET

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But ... so back to your ... point. If KH had offered the same contract he ultimately offered on day one, it would have turned out any different?

Holland low-balls free agents out of the gate either in term or dollar amount…or both. When he says he’s “kicking the tires” he means that he’s offering way below market value for them and if they happen to, out of sheer stupidity, accept the offer then WHEEE! If not, oh well…at least he “kicked the tires”. In the end it doesn’t really matter though. Cleary, Filppula and Abdelkader in our top 6 can get us where we want to be.

Posted by godblender on 07/01/13 at 05:29 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Godblender. Dont go spitting l those facts and reality in here.. might rock the boat on paradise island

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/01/13 at 05:33 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

My bunion’s telling me the Wings are going to re-sign Filppula and Cleary, lose Brunner, and lose out on Lecavlier.

I can’t think of anything worse right now than ^.  Stop it! Ruining my Canada Day!

Why do I feel it is however probably not far from the truth.  Just dump Monster and sign UFA Timmy Thomas (recently returned to this planet from his own planet) and complete the insanity!!

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 07/01/13 at 05:37 PM ET

cementslinger's avatar

So would you rather KH overpay for Vinny or simply like our team as it is? Personally, overpay the bastard.  If it works out and pays off, then great. # 12 is back home. If it backfires, we’ll still see the same result as these recent previous years… no cup.

Posted by cementslinger from Midland MI on 07/01/13 at 05:40 PM ET

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But ... so back to your ... point. If KH had offered the same contract he ultimately offered on day one, it would have turned out any different?

But…so…my point…was…that Holland plays catchup.  If Ryan Suter knows from day one how badly Holland wants him to play in Detroit, maybe it DOES make a decision.  Suter himself has said it was between Minny and Detroit.  That means that he was seriously considering Detroit.

So yeah, maybe the reason he chose home was because it was between that and a team that apparently didn’t give enough of a damn to field a competitive offer in the first place.  Maybe if Holland had given him a better offer rather than eventually making the desperation move of having half the management visit him on his farm, he might’ve decided to play in Detroit.

Because unless you’re a complete moron, you know the decision wasn’t just because he wanted to play close to home, because if it was, he wouldn’t have spent several days making the decision.  He would’ve called up Minny and asked them for a number then signed on the line which is dotted on July 1st.

He chose “home” because one of the teams he clearly was very interested in playing for didn’t show the same kind of interest in him.  They just assumed they could offer him less money and less term than anyone else and he would sign there…just because…

So, like I said, my point (which you wilfully ignored just to be a *#$%@&) is that when there’s a free agent who we ALL know is going to be sought after by a lot of teams, you need to show that free agent that you really want him on your team.  You don’t lowball them with the money or ignore a public comment about wanting a contract that will take them to retirement.  By lowballing Suter/Parise/Lecavalier/whoever you’re just trying to play some stupid game of reverse psychology, and that only works on children and idiots.

Why would someone want to sign with a time that just shrugs and throws out a random number or term over a team that shows they’re passionate about you?

FFS, Holland had Nick F*cking Lidstrom call a college free agent who’d never played a game of professional hockey to entice him to play for the Wings, but he’s not willing to commit to a guy like Vinny Lecavalier?

Posted by Garth on 07/01/13 at 05:54 PM ET

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I am not sure why everyone is so hot on Vinny, I for one would not be really excited to see him play for the Wings.  I lived in Florida for 7 years and watched about 75% of the Bolts game over that time and the one thing that always stood out about Vinny, he is a cherry picken glider.  He hangs out the blue line waiting for passes, always the last person back or first person off ice to the bench as the play is hot and heavy in his own end.  He has some good offensive skills but I am sorry, I have to question his work ethic and compete level as in the 7 years of watching a lot of Bolts hockey he Vinny was a non factor in about 60% of the games with Stamkos and St. Louis doing all the work. 

If you will be happy with a guy that hangs around the blue line and sloppy on the defensive game but is good at finding open space and tapping in shots that others work hard to get off the boards and to the net then Vinny would be a good choice.  I’d pay him 2 million a season for 2 years max because that is about all the effort you are going to get out of him and I don’t have any hopes for it getting better as he gets older. 

Hopefully Fil is gone, would not like to see him back mainly because he won’t be worth the top dollar they will have to pay for him.  Brunner needs to get a deal done, 3.5 over 2 years and that way we can see what he can do over a full NHL season. Cleary I would like to see back, but do we really have a spot for him? Sammy, buyout PLEASE!!!  Not putting much hope on Helmer being healthy this season, something about his back issue that just screams Mickey Redmond career which would be really sad, I love Helm.  Anyway you look at it, some people are going to have to go, and if being unable to resign Fil Brunner and Cleary clears up spots I am fine with that as it just means more opportunity for the young kids.

Posted by AzWingsFan on 07/01/13 at 06:56 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

Some UFAs to look over.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=676080&navid=nhl:topheads

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/01/13 at 07:40 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

I am not sure why everyone is so hot on Vinny, I for one would not be really excited to see him play for the Wings.  I lived in Florida for 7 years and watched about 75% of the Bolts game over that time and the one thing that always stood out about Vinny, he is a cherry picken glider.  He hangs out the blue line waiting for passes, always the last person back or first person off ice to the bench as the play is hot and heavy in his own end.  He has some good offensive skills but I am sorry, I have to question his work ethic and compete level as in the 7 years of watching a lot of Bolts hockey he Vinny was a non factor in about 60% of the games with Stamkos and St. Louis doing all the work.

If you will be happy with a guy that hangs around the blue line and sloppy on the defensive game but is good at finding open space and tapping in shots that others work hard to get off the boards and to the net then Vinny would be a good choice.  I’d pay him 2 million a season for 2 years max because that is about all the effort you are going to get out of him and I don’t have any hopes for it getting better as he gets older.

Posted by AzWingsFan on 07/01/13 at 06:56 PM ET

There are concerns about his ability to play to pace, although that alone wouldn’t rule him out.  Guaranteeing him $25M for 5 years without seeing if he fits the Wings style would be really dangerous, and Ken Holland, thankfully, is not reckless.

The road is strewn without buyouts and rosters filled with wish-we-could-buyouts who were signed to long term contracts just to secure their services which proved to be not so great after all.

Overpay Vinny for 2 years, and then again if it works out.  Guaranteeing him top dollar for 5 years is not wise at this juncture in time.

And this goes against my enthusiasm since I brought up Vinny a week ago before TB bought him out.

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/01/13 at 07:50 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

I should clarify, I’m still enthused about Vinny, but not blindly handing out 5 years of Mr. I’s money.

That will likely cause him to sign elsewhere, which will result in short term bitching, and carefully placed amnesia in a couple of years when he’s a drag on a team for 2 years while collecting $10 Million.

Posted by RWBill from cruising Brush Street with creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/01/13 at 07:53 PM ET

SK77's avatar

Posted by Garth on 07/01/13 at 05:54 PM ET

Thanks for taking time the time to explain to me that the reason Suter & Parise aren’t playing for the WIngs is that Ken Holland hurt their feelings by making an offer lower than what they eventually got signed for.

Of course it kind of glosses over the fact that the Wild did the same exact thing with their negotiations in that they started at a lower figure and worked their way up from there—same as the Wings.

Thankfully the Wild weren’t burdened by an idiot GM like Ken Holland, who despite his obvious stupidity continues to be the GM of the best franchise in sports has the ability to hurt athlete’s feelings like no one else.

Posted by SK77 on 07/01/13 at 07:57 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Problem is Bill that the going price for 2nd like center is around 5 mil now.  Do you want flip for 5 or VL?

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/01/13 at 07:57 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

If youu believe people dont get offended by lowballerrs youre living in a dream world.  No one said thats the only reason but are you advocating it was the wisest course of action if youd puut 3 years of free agency into this one “swing for the fences”?


Sounds more like you got Holland confused with Jesus.


He perfectly missed ALL the FAls last year wortha damn and is now looking at buying out and/or trading every signing from last summer.  Spent a 1st rounder bringing back a guy we lost through waivers (which they knew would happen) and got nothing for him.

Someone else just mentioned Chicago got 5to additional picks in “the deepest draft since 03” for bolland and froliks rights. 

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/01/13 at 08:03 PM ET

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We’re really discussing if getting a 33yr old, legitimate second line center who’s big, gritty and a scorer is worth going for 4yrs at $5mm or so per year?  It should already be done.  I agree with those that say that Holland’s blasé attitude towards signing Vinny and other free agents is a joke.  Does it hurt his feelings?  No, but essentially giving him a cursory interview and a “give us a call sometime” does not make him feel welcome.  If Lecavalier was Swedish, was blessed by Hakan Andersson or had played for the Wings during their Cup runs fro 2002 or 2008, Holland would wet himself to get him here.  But instead he gives him a “you’re lucky we’re even talking to you” interview and some ridiculous term and wants fans to believe he’s making an effort.  Get him on the phone with Zetterberg, get him on the phone with Datsyuk talk about what an honor it is to play for the Wings and why it’s a great locker room etc.  The sad thing is that Lecavalier has already been paid and is sitting on $30mm, so it’s not like he’s looking for top dollar, I just don’t understand why they aren’t being aggressive.

Posted by bababooey on 07/01/13 at 08:39 PM ET

Joe Z.'s avatar

It’s fun in here with all the Holland bashing. Suter chose MIN for personal reasons. Even if Kenny would have offered the same contract, Suter would have chosen friends and family. I think most people simply can’ t accept that there is noone to blame.

Also about Fil, so what should Kenny do? Trade Fil at the draft and lose a top 6 player for a 10-25% chance of signing Lecavalier? That’s maybe Holmgren-style but not Holland-style. The main reason why KH is the best GM in the NHL is his ability to think several steps ahead.

Posted by Joe Z. from Austria on 07/01/13 at 09:07 PM ET

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Thanks for taking time the time to explain to me that the reason Suter & Parise aren’t playing for the WIngs is that Ken Holland hurt their feelings by making an offer lower than what they eventually got signed for.

Yup.

Thanks for continuing to be a piece of shit troll.

Posted by Garth on 07/01/13 at 09:07 PM ET

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Also about Fil, so what should Kenny do? Trade Fil at the draft and lose a top 6 player for a 10-25% chance of signing Lecavalier? That’s maybe Holmgren-style but not Holland-style. The main reason why KH is the best GM in the NHL is his ability to think several steps ahead.

Best GM in the NHL?  Ok, and regarding Filppula it’s already known that the Wings are not going to pay him what he is asking for, nor should they.  So do they hang onto him or lose him for nothing.  Teams like Chicago, which had cap issues, fixed their cap issues by trading away unnecessary pieces and stocked up on draft picks.  That’s thinking 3 steps ahead.  Or how about getting schooled by your former asst GM?  Once Nichicshin fell out of the top 5 and then top 7 Detroit should have been on the phone looking to trade up.  Especially if they felt he was he best Russian prospect since Ovechkin, instead Nill takes him at 10.  Those are moves where you think ahead.

Posted by bababooey on 07/01/13 at 09:12 PM ET

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**Nichushkin**

Posted by bababooey on 07/01/13 at 09:14 PM ET

Joe Z.'s avatar

Best GM in the NHL?

Looking at his track record, I would say so, yes.

Ok, and regarding Filppula it’s already known that the Wings are not going to pay him what he is asking for, nor should they.  So do they hang onto him or lose him for nothing.

I really doubt that anything is known. Usually talks between management and players aren’t disclosed to the public. You know stories like “Bobby Lou getting traded in favour of Schneider” “Bobrovksy wants more than 6 mill. from Columbus, no chance he’ll stay”.

Teams like Chicago, which had cap issues, fixed their cap issues by trading away unnecessary pieces and stocked up on draft picks.  That’s thinking 3 steps ahead.

There are several ways to success. Also it’s a lot easier to be successfull for three years when you sucked a long time, so that you had the chance to draft your core-players with top 15 picks. Let’s talk about Chicago in 5 years. Then and only then we are able to compare Red wings 2005-2013 and Chicago 2010-2018.

Or how about getting schooled by your former asst GM?  Once Nichicshin fell out of the top 5 and then top 7 Detroit should have been on the phone looking to trade up.  Especially if they felt he was he best Russian prospect since Ovechkin, instead Nill takes him at 10.  Those are moves where you think ahead.

Getting schooled? It’s Kennys fault that Nill took the offer form Dallas and also used his knowledge he gained with the Wings? Also Trade up with what? Common sense tells that the deeper the draft class, the less worth your assest are.

Posted by Joe Z. from Austria on 07/01/13 at 09:42 PM ET

BC's avatar

Lecavalier isn’t quite as intriguing as the Hossa signing, but it has the same feel.  With Hoss we were one stick to Lidstrom’s balls away from repeating.  Vinnie could be the missing piece in ‘14.

Suter and Parise were going to take a big chunk out of someone’s cap.  Glad it was not ours.  MN will need to do some serious salary dumps to acquire any depth.  Getting stuck with Heatley’s salary was not in their plans, I am sure.  But stuff happens.

Posted by BC on 07/01/13 at 09:50 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.