Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Red Wings mid-day news: a harsh ‘grade’ and multimedia tidbits

Updated 7x at 7:13 PM: Xavier Ouellet has been named the Blainville-Boisbriand Armada's captain for the second year in a row: Amongst this afternoon's Red Wings stories of note:

  • Sports Illustraed's Al Muir offers a predictable offseason "grade" for the Red Wings while assessing the moves of each and every Western Conference team:

Detroit Red Wings

Used to be that Detroit was the destination of choice for top free agents. Not anymore. Faced with a gaping hole left by the retirement of Nick Lidstrom, the Wings sent flowers and chocolates to every defender on the market but ended up watching from the sidelines as Ryan Suter, Matt Carle and even Sami Salo picked other dance partners. The Wings have spun blueline gold out of straw before, but when you hear they're chasing Carlo Colaiacovo, you know they're in desperation mode. Jordin Tootoo and Mikael Samuelsson add some depth up front, but the Wings clearly regressed over the summer. Their 21-year playoff streak is in jeopardy. GRADE: D

  • Speaking of panning the Wings, the National Post's Sean McIndoe, a.k.a. Down Goes Brown, offers this take on the Wings as an off-season "loser":

Losers  Detroit Red Wings — May not have added any big names but also didn’t lose anyone important, according to your friend who is a Red Wings fan as he casually scans the “trade,” “draft” and “free agency” section of the transactions page before arriving at “retirements” and immediately turning into the guy from Munch’s The Scream.

  • In another flight of fancy, from the Red Wings:
  • As an FYI, from DetroitRedWings.com's Bill Roose:
  • In the multimedia category, part 1: The Wings' website also posted a 28-image gallery from the team's youth hockey camp;
  • In the multimedia category, part 2, from the NHLPA:

 

Update: Via RedWingsFeed, Expressen's Mattias Ek is reporting that Hockey Allsvenskan, the Swedish pro league a step below the Eliteserien, is considering barring NHL'ers from playing for their teams, just as the Eliteserien has chosen to deny players a spot unless they commit to a whole-season contract, but Ek says that several Allsvenskan teams--Mora IK, Sodertalje SK, Vasteras IK (Nicklas Lidstrom's old team) and Tingsryd are interested in inviting NHL'ers to play for them, as is Niklas Kronwall's alma mater, Djurgardens IF (and all that follows is roughly translated):

Charles Berglund, Djurgarden's general manager and coach, wouldn't confirm that his team wants to have locked-out NHL players in the headilnes. But he admits that he's had contact with NHL defensemen Niklas Kronwall and Douglas Murray, and has told HockeyExpressen.se that Djugarden may ask them to play if there are games in Sweden.

"I've talked to Patric Hornqvist, Kronwall and even Douglas, who will update me regularly about what's happening over there. But then we'll see what the hockey headlines say on Tuesday, I will say neither yes or no. We'll wait," says Berglund.

Ek also reports that Red Wings forward/retread Mikael Samuelsson has taken a tack that most of the Wings' players with multiple children and/or family issues (Pavel Datsyuk tends to feel a patriotic call, thus the possibility of playing for a KHL team, and I don't know why his daughter stays in Yekaterinburg to go to Russian primary school, but that's how it works for him, thus the rumors about Datsyuk being divorced because his daughter and wife stay in Russia for most of the regular season) will take, turning down an offer from Sodertalje SK to skate for them during a lockout-shortened season (and no, I don't know why the comment's repeated):

"Samuelsson has said he will remain in Detroit," says SSK's general manager, Maria Andark, to HockeyExpressen.se.

NHL veteran Mikael Samuelsson signed with his former team, Detroit, during the summer. Samuelsson played in Detroit from 2005 to 2009, and won a Stanley Cup in 2008.

During the last NHL lockout, he played for Sodertalje, which went to the Swedish Eliteserien finals.

Samuelsson has been training with Sodertalje in the pre-season, but informed the team that he won't play there in the event of another NHL lockout.

"He has a family and children about to start school [in Detroit]," says SSK's general manager, Marian Andark.
Samuelsson has been training in Södertälje in the preseason, but informed the club that he did not play there in the event of another NHL lockout.
 

Update #2:

  • From the Wings:

 

  • RedWingsFeed, ever helpful, directs us to Dobber Hockey's take on fantasy hockey "stars and sleepers at center," adding the following about Red Wigngs players:

 Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit Red Wings - No longer 90-point guys, but good for 70.

  • And NHL.com's Brian Schiazza points us toward a list of free agents still available  that/which underscores two facts about Wings prospects: Travis Ehrhardt may be practicing with and playing for TPS Turku of the Finnish SM-Liiga, but they have yet to sign him to a contract, and nobody knows where Logan Pyett signed. nobody seems to know where Jordan Pearce will play this season, either.

Update #3: From Red Wings TV's Will Posthumus:

 

24 images, looks pretty bad-ass.

Update #4: Via the Free Press's Helene St. James, new Wing Jordin Tootoo is commemorating a rough anniversary today, the tenth anniversary of his brother's passing...

 


And on a lighter note, from the Wings:

 

Update: If you're interested in this sort of thing, from DetroitRedWings.com's Kevin Wilson and Bill Roose:

The fearsome finishing holes at Oakland Hills Country Club have proved disastrous for some of the biggest names in the game. But on Monday, a Michigan State student didn’t have any problems taming The Monster's toughest holes during the fifth annual Ilitch Charities Celebrity Golf Classic.

There are few things cooler than making a hole-in-one on a PGA championship course, but that’s exactly what Alex Lyall did in helping his group – led by former Red Wings center Kris Draper – to a second-place finish in the event’s scramble format.

“We saw the ball land and saw it rolling back,” said Draper, of Lyall’s tee shot onto the elevated green on the South Course's No. 17. “ ‘It’s in man, it’s gotta be in!’ And sure enough we got up there and were yelling. It was pretty cool.”

Lyall, who qualified for the USGA Junior Amateur Championship in 2007, and played at the University of Louisville before transferring to East Lansing last year, used a 9-iron on the 175-yard par 3 hole.

“I just tried to hit it and hoped to get it close,” he said, “and I hit it just like I wanted and sure enough … dink.”

The hole-in-one, the second ace of Lyall’s golfing career, made Monday’s event extra special, and earned him a free trip to Las Vegas for his shot on the closest-to-the-pin hole.

“With the company and playing at this great course,” he said, “the whole event was just so much fun. It was awesome.”

Update #5.5: The Wings are encouraging fans to submit photos for a fan mural at the Joe, and if you're interested in that sort of thing, the Griffins are now selling "flex pack" sets of tickets.

 

Update #6: According to KDKA's Sarah Arbogast, Larry Murphy took part in the Pittsburgh Penguins' annual alumni golf tournament today;

And Yahoo Sports' Neate Sager offers the following take on Wings prospect Andreas Athanasiou's move from the London Knights to Barrie Colts:

Wing: Andreas Athanasiou, Barrie Colts (Detroit Red Wings, 110th overall) — What can the skilled speedster do over in the Eastern Conference after falling out of favour with the London Knights?

Athanasiou could not abide London's emphasis on checking and close coverage and shuffled between the lineup and the press box as last season wore on, even when he was being touted as a high NHL pick. Now he's with a team which probably has heightened expectations after an 85-point season but which needs scoring after having Tanner Pearson drafted by the Los Angeles Kings and having captain Colin Behenna graduate.

Update #7: According to the Blainville-Boisbriand Armada, Xavier Ouellet will be the team's captain during his final QMJHL season, wearing the "C" for the second year in a row.

Filed in: | The Malik Report | Permalink
 

Comments

IwoCPO's avatar

Hard to argue with DGB and Muir, George.  When you look at what we lost in Lidstrom and then you gauge the summer by what Ken Holland said the team would be doing?  It’s been a D. An easy D. 

Even if Suter had been our only acquisition, Detroit still wouldn’t have been as good as the team that lost to Bubba.  Now? Remarkably worse. 

Holland’s done nothing.  This team has holes and he has money to spend.  A “D” is generous.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 01:44 PM ET

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A “D” is generous.

Truth.

Posted by Garth on 08/28/12 at 01:54 PM ET

Keyser S.'s avatar

The only plus, no team got remarkably better in the offseason. Minnesota, even adding suter and parise do not impress me. They may make the playoffs, but they’re far from being an elite team.

That’s parity.

Posted by Keyser S. on 08/28/12 at 01:59 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Holland’s done nothing.  This team has holes and he has money to spend.  A “D” is generous.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 01:44 PM ET

Yep

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 08/28/12 at 02:11 PM ET

alukacs's avatar

I would call this a midterm grade - once we know what the new cba brings, we might give holland more credit

Posted by alukacs on 08/28/12 at 02:15 PM ET

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I would call this a midterm grade - once we know what the new cba brings, we might give holland more credit

Yeah, sure…

Posted by Garth on 08/28/12 at 03:08 PM ET

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I wouldn’t take too much stock in Muir’s ratings. On the Eastern conference side he gave Ottawa a D for not bringing back Carkner and all of the great things he brought to the team.  He gives the same grade to the Islanders that actually did sign Carkner without even mentioning him. Can you have it both ways?

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 08/28/12 at 03:10 PM ET

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I think its a B- at this point if comparing teams across the board.  Maybe 4-5 teams improved from trades, and the Red Wings might have slightly improved from trades.  A few teams got horribly screwed; including Nashville, Minnesota and NJ.  Yup, Minnesota may make the playoffs, but they are going to have cap issues for years and their current roster is likely the best you’ll see for the next 10+ years until some of these mammoth contracts go away (or if the new CBA is very nice and fixes the issue for them).  NJ lost the only bit of real offense they had, and Nashville lost a top 30 D-man and also got raped on Weber’s mammoth contract.  Going to be some poor owners in those small markets (and some rich players).

I know they lost Lidstrom and I feel he could have been more effective for longer than Chelios but I think he would have likely started to miss games to injury and lost a step; still plenty effective.  Once in a generation player, but would have been top 15 D next season likely not top 5 or 10. 

Stuart was a loss but honestly his last season was a far cry from the monster he was the year he helped the wings take the cup.  I think a good season from Quincy will be more effective than Stuart was last year.  I also think Ericsson as well as Smith will help fill the gap here (assuming Smith keeps up what he showed when he played for a while).

Anything is an upgrade from Holmstrom; great great guy but far too slow to be effective in that position anymore.  Lots of city miles on that one. 

Hudler is a hard loss as well; I know he wasn’t the most consistent but he did add 25 goals.  I think the hope is that between Samuellson/Brunner/Nyquist and whoever replaces Homer (Tootoo?) the Wings will make up the 35 or so goals lost between those players.  Another year of increased production from Helm and 70-85 point seasons from Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Filpulla means Detroit is still an easy 5-6 seed IMO.

That being said; injuries, long goalless and winless streaks and not adding the top 15-30 dman the team needs may push the team out of the playoffs.  I doubt it though, would need to be the perfect storm.  Again, the right combination of things working right could bring them to a top 3 seed. 

If I misspelled names so be it, don’t type them all that often smile  Also its all probably a moot point anyways since the NHL is going to be horribly stupid and lock out this season.

Posted by neffernin on 08/28/12 at 03:16 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

  I would call this a midterm grade - once we know what the new cba brings, we might give holland more credit

Yeah, sure…

Posted by Garth on 08/28/12 at 03:08 PM ET

People changing their minds about stuff? Not bloody likely.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 03:23 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

That said, I agree with the D grade.

Holland is going to have a hard time moving that up to a C even.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 03:28 PM ET

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I think you guys are struggling a bit coming to grips with what Lidstrom was for the last half of the year, especially when you say the Wings are so much worse for not replacing it.

The wheels came off of Lidstrom in the second half of last year, all the way through the postseason.  He wasn’t producing, and he wasn’t much beyond mediocre out there on the ice at ES.

January through the end of the season Lidstrom played 37 games.  He had 3 goals, 8 assists, and was a +4.

That’s it.  He was a shadow of himself.

Here’s the thing: Coco Carlo Combover might actually replace 90% of what Lidstrom was at the end of the year, and what he would have been had he come back.

I’d give Holland a C+ because while he didn’t land any big names (yet) he also didn’t get desperate and make any stupid signings in a rush to ‘be busy’.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 03:33 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

Here’s the thing: Coco Carlo Combover might actually replace 90% of what Lidstrom was at the end of the year, and what he would have been had he come back.

Lidstrom was hurt. And as many of us claimed here it wasn’t a damn “bone bruise”. It was broken. Still, even taking his injury into consideration that statement of yours is comical at best, crack induced at worst.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 04:02 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

Here’s the thing: Coco Carlo Combover might actually replace 90% of what Lidstrom was at the end of the year, and what he would have been had he come back.

And I just read that statement again. You’re claiming the Blues cast-off would be 90 percent of what Lidstrom would have offered if he’d come back this year?  I just want to be sure that’s what you’re saying.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 04:05 PM ET

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He was a shadow of himself.

Hey TPSH, hockey is more than numbers.

I love the rationalizations people are trying to use to convince themselves that there wasn’t a huge hole created by the loss of Stuart and Lidstrom.

Nevermind that Lidstrom was a great deal of the reason that White had a career year and the loss of Lidstrom downgrades White which makes the hole left by Lidstrom and Stuart even bigger.

As for the grade, the Red Wings didn’t accomplish their UFA goal (top-6 scoring winger), they also didn’t address the loss of Stuart (top-four defenseman) and they didn’t address the loss of Lidstrom (top-two defenseman).

A ‘D’ is absolutely appropriate and if anything, a bit generous.

Posted by Garth on 08/28/12 at 04:20 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Lidstrom was hurt and the whole team played terribly through the later part of the season, therefore we’re overestimating how important Lidstrom was?

Well that’s certainly an opinion.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 04:46 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Can’t argue with the D.. doesn’t mean I don’t think the guys we have will seize the opportunity they have to establish themselves right now.  But the GM doesn’t control that, the coach does.  Kenny’s job was to correct deficiencies through player acquisition, he didn’t do that.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 08/28/12 at 05:19 PM ET

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Lidstrom was hurt. And as many of us claimed here it wasn’t a damn “bone bruise”. It was broken. Still, even taking his injury into consideration that statement of yours is comical at best, crack induced at worst.

Like I said, some people are really struggling with it.

Lidstrom’s play has been slipping for a while now.  It would have continued to slip.  He had a hot November last year and that was it.  The rest of his whole season was decidedly un-Lidstrom like.

As, obviously, it should be.  Dude was 41.

And, obviously, the dude would be 42 this year.  Just as likely to be injured again.  Just as likely to continue to slide.

This wasn’t 1999 Lidstrom we’re talking about.  Or even 2007 Lidstrom.  Or even 2010 Lidstrom.  He was worse than all those guys in every way, and none of that was going to improve.

So you can say my comment was inspired by crack, but yours is powered by kool-aid.

Hey TPSH, hockey is more than numbers.

I love the rationalizations people are trying to use to convince themselves that there wasn’t a huge hole created by the loss of Stuart and Lidstrom.

I love people wildly inflating the ability of guys to give themselves a reason to flip out over a perceived lack of action.

The hole Detroit has created for itself is on the PK, because I’m not sure exactly where they are going to get the minutes to fill out that unit without Stuart.

At ES they aren’t appreciably worse, assuming they get a guy who can play a little bit there and/or Smith is ready for an expanded, three phase role along the lines of Kronwall in Kronwall’s first full season up.

As for the grade, the Red Wings didn’t accomplish their UFA goal (top-6 scoring winger), they also didn’t address the loss of Stuart (top-four defenseman) and they didn’t address the loss of Lidstrom (top-two defenseman).

Sammy’s the top 6 scorer they added and Smith is the top 4 guy they’re ‘adding’.  Yes, they missed out on Suter and Weber, but that’s not exactly something you can blame Holland for, right?  He made an equivalent offer to Suter but he wanted to play with Parise in Minny, and Nashville matched an absurd offer for Weber.

And also, he didn’t allow desperation to lead him into wildly over-paying someone just to keep you goofballs happy.  At least, he hasn’t yet.

Lidstrom was hurt and the whole team played terribly through the later part of the season, therefore we’re overestimating how important Lidstrom was?

Well that’s certainly an opinion.

The question is, whose?

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 05:49 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 05:49 PM ET

You never addressed this….

You’re claiming the Blues cast-off would be 90 percent of what Lidstrom would have offered if he’d come back this year?  I just want to be sure that’s what you’re saying.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 04:05 PM ET

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 05:54 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

The question is, whose?

Yours, edited for context.

And also, he didn’t allow desperation to lead him into wildly over-paying someone just to keep you goofballs happy.

You don’t get credit for not doing something you’re not supposed to do.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 05:55 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Sammy’s the top 6 scorer they added

Sorry, Garth. He got you there. You forgot to say that their UFA goal was to add a good top-6 scoring winger.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 05:58 PM ET

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Yours, edited for context.

You’re not a very strong editor, then.

You’re claiming the Blues cast-off would be 90 percent of what Lidstrom would have offered if he’d come back this year?  I just want to be sure that’s what you’re saying.

Here’s what I said:

“Coco Carlo Combover might actually replace 90% of what Lidstrom was at the end of the year, and what he would have been had he come back.”

I say this because a) Lidstrom was mediocre at best for the second half of last year and b) that’d be his ceiling if he came back.

The reason you’re reacting so strongly to that statement of mine is you think Lidstrom was going to be, you know, good.  Because he used to be good.  Nowadays, and by nowadays I mean the last five months of hockey I watched him play, he’s a decent guy who doesn’t produce at ES, plays well positionally, and is almost guaranteed to miss 15-20 games.

That guy can be replaced by a Coco Crispin Camaro.

 

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 06:11 PM ET

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Sorry, Garth. He got you there. You forgot to say that their UFA goal was to add a good top-6 scoring winger.

Sammy has scored 81 goals over the past 4 years.

On the Wings only D (101), Z (100) and Franzen (101) have scored more.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 06:16 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

what he would have been had he come back.

90 percent of that.  That’s what you said, right?  Colocaivo or whateverthefuchhisname would be 90 percent of the player Lidstrom would have been this year.  All your equivocation aside…you said it.  Good deal.  So every time you come on here trying to play devil’s advocate and Pat Caputo wannabe, we’ll just pull out that little nugget.

You type a lot HD. Too bad most of it’s bullshit.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/28/12 at 06:21 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

You’re not a very strong editor, then.

I’ll take your opinion of my editing skills into consideration. Thank you for the criticism.

I say this because a) Lidstrom was mediocre at best for the second half of last year and b) that’d be his ceiling if he came back.

You like to say “mediocre at best” a lot and you almost never use it correctly.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 06:53 PM ET

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Just as likely to be injured again.

Because he was injured once, he will be injured again?  This past year was the first time he ever missed significant time due to injury.  You can’t simply assume he would be injured again.

Sammy’s the top 6 scorer they added

No, he absolutely ins’t.  He’s Hudler’s replacement.  He’s not an addition whatsoever.

They signed him while still pursuing Parise.

Smith is the top 4 guy they’re ‘adding’.

Again, no he isn’t.  He’s not a top-4 defenseman and he wasn’t “added”.  He played for the Red Wings last year and has spent two years in the organization.  That’s not addition.

Sammy has scored 81 goals over the past 4 years.

Good for him.  Even if he scored 20 goals per season -which he hasn’t…14 last season- that makes him almost a replacement for Hudler, it doesn’t make him a top-6 goal-scoring winger.

Or maybe by your logic Jordan Tootoo is a goal-scoring winger since technically he is a winger and he has scored goals.

On the Wings only D (101), Z (100) and Franzen (101) have scored more.

Yes, and ONE of those is a goal-scoring winger and he is an underachieving goal-scoring winger at that.

But yes, Sammy is really an upgrade, what with scoring a little over half as many goals as the winger that Detroit allowed to walk.

Seriously, you think that Detroit’s goal, in looking for a goal-scoring winger, was to get someone who is not as good a goal-scorer as the guys that they have, two of whom are the centres who would be playing with said goal-scoring winger?

b) that’d be his ceiling if he came back.

So in his career he’s had one half of a season in which he lost time to injury, and that is the best he will ever be again?

You’re so full of shit it’s almost unbelievable.

And also, he didn’t allow desperation to lead him into wildly over-paying someone just to keep you goofballs happy.

You’re right, his desperation led him to signing an ageing winger whose career high is 30 goals and whose production is on a steady down slope from that year to a multi-year, 35+ contract with a no-trade clause that rewards his declining production with a 20% raise over his last contract.

Oh, and to sign a smaller, dirtier version of Justin Abdelkader to a three-year contract that will artificially inflate Abdelkader’s worth to the team when he finally gets signed.

Oh, and to create a logjam amongst the bottom-six forwards while not addressing the needs of the top-six forwards or the defense.

and is almost guaranteed to miss 15-20 games.

He has never, in his career, missed 13 games in a season, nevermind anything near you “guaranteed” 15-20.

Nevermind that his injury this season had NOTHING TO DO WITH AGE.  He took a puck off the ankle and got a deep bone bruise.  This wasn’t age-related, it was bad luck related.  Maybe you’re including his getting speared in the nuts by Patrick Sharp as being an age-related injury as well?

So in essence you’re guaranteeing that he will suffer two flute injuries next year, because of his age?

Posted by Garth on 08/28/12 at 07:13 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

“Temperature of the room” = similar to the political conventions going on this and next week. Let’s crank the venom down on all sides, if that’s possible, please.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 08/28/12 at 07:37 PM ET

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So every time you come on here trying to play devil’s advocate and Pat Caputo wannabe, we’ll just pull out that little nugget.

Oh no!  You’re going to remind me of something I think is correct?  Ahhhhhhhh!

You type a lot HD. Too bad most of it’s bullshit.

That’s an odd bit of criticism, considering.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 08:00 PM ET

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I’ll take your opinion of my editing skills into consideration. Thank you for the criticism.

No problem.

You like to say “mediocre at best” a lot and you almost never use it correctly.

No, I use it correctly.  Mediocre at best as in, the best he was during the time I am referring to was mediocre.  And over periods within the time frame I am referring to he was also less than mediocre.

Do you have a different definition of that phrase you’d like to share?

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 08:08 PM ET

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Because he was injured once, he will be injured again?

No, I think he’s just as likely to be injured again.  And I think it’s almost a certainty he’ll miss 15-20 games once you take 5-8 games lost due to injury and add in some games lost due to maintenance days and whatnot for a 42 year old player.

Good for him.  Even if he scored 20 goals per season -which he hasn’t…14 last season-

14 in 54 games.  Which is 20 goals if he plays 76 games.

So Sammy has 19 goals in 81 games, 30 in 74, 18 in 75, and 14 in 54.

He’s Hudler’s replacement.  He’s not an addition whatsoever.

What’s Gustav Nyqvist, then?

Or maybe by your logic Jordan Tootoo is a goal-scoring winger since technically he is a winger and he has scored goals.

You appear to be struggling to accurately represent what I’m saying.  Sammy, as a guy who has been pretty much a 20 goal scorer the last four years, averaging over 20 and being within 2 goals of 20 every season he plays 70 games, is a goal scorer.

It’s patently stupid to try and pretend I’m making a similar argument about Jordin Tootoo.

But yes, Sammy is really an upgrade, what with scoring a little over half as many goals as the winger that Detroit allowed to walk.

14 in 54 games vs. 25 in 82?

And you’re going to use Hudler’s career contract year as his expected level of production?

And you’re going to go all TPSH on me shortly after reminding me that there is more to hockey than numbers? smile

Seriously, you think that Detroit’s goal, in looking for a goal-scoring winger, was to get someone who is not as good a goal-scorer as the guys that they have, two of whom are the centres who would be playing with said goal-scoring winger?

You’re asking a different question now, though.  I don’t think that Sammy was Plan A.  Your initial point was that they did nothing, however.  I disagreed, and pointed out that they added Sammy. 

Probably not what they really wanted, but given what happened the best they could do at the time.

So in his career he’s had one half of a season in which he lost time to injury, and that is the best he will ever be again?

You’re so full of shit it’s almost unbelievable.

Oh good grief, grow up already.  Lidstrom’s been declining for years now, Garth.  This shouldn’t really be news.  He’s not going to have some kind of renaissance at age 42, he’s going to be roughly what he was last year, at best.

The problem you are having is that you are thinking what he was last year was better than what it really was.

You’re right, his desperation led him to signing an ageing winger whose career high is 30 goals and whose production is on a steady down slope from that year to a multi-year, 35+ contract with a no-trade clause that rewards his declining production with a 20% raise over his last contract.

It’s a 2 year 6 million dollar contract, Garth.  Stop trying to pretend there’s much risk involved with it.

Oh, and to sign a smaller, dirtier version of Justin Abdelkader to a three-year contract that will artificially inflate Abdelkader’s worth to the team when he finally gets signed.

I hated the Tootoo signing, so I’m right with you there.

Oh, and to create a logjam amongst the bottom-six forwards while not addressing the needs of the top-six forwards or the defense.

What logjam?  Homer’s not coming back, Eaves may still be out, and Emmerton’s totally irrelevant.  Who is getting forced off the roster because of Tootoo that anyone should care about?

So in essence you’re guaranteeing that he will suffer two flute injuries next year, because of his age?

No, I’m saying he’ll likely miss a few games here or there with injuries and a few games here or their for ‘time off’ at a minimum, and before you know it he’ll be around the 15 game point.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/28/12 at 08:33 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

No, I use it correctly.  Mediocre at best as in, the best he was during the time I am referring to was mediocre.  And over periods within the time frame I am referring to he was also less than mediocre.

so it’s just the word mediocre with which you struggle. It’s ok, man.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 08:52 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Let’s just make sure we’re categorizing the injury correctly, since you’re having so much fun saying things and then saying you didn’t say that.

Lidstrom was [not as good as he should have been] while struggling through a deep bone bruise.

This level of play would be his baseline level if he continued to play, despite not having a deep bone bruise.

Because you can basically guarantee he’d suffer a deep bone bruise.

It’s all predicated on the moved-goalposts concept that the Wings need a D-man who can perform somewhere near the level of Lidstrom before he fell off your proverbial cliff, regardless of whether that guy is Lidstrom.  I mean, when Lidstrom sucked, so did the Wings. now Lidstrom is gone and they haven’t replaced him, not even with the guy who you would say would be 90% as good as the guy you’re saying wasn’t good enough.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/28/12 at 09:02 PM ET

Avatar

No, I think he’s just as likely to be injured again.

Really?  Because you guaranteed that he’d miss almost a quarter of the season.

What’s Gustav Nyqvist, then?

Unproven.  Same as Brunner.  They could both be great or they could both be Leino/Brunnstrom.  Neither are legitimate top-six talent and we ALL know that.

You understand that they knew they had Nyquist when they said they were looking for a top-six scoring forward, right?

Sammy, as a guy who has been pretty much a 20 goal scorer the last four years

Sorry, no.  There’s difference between scoring 20 goals a year and having a continuing decline in your production.

I don’t think that Sammy was Plan A.

He’s also not a top-six scoring forward, and he was added while they were still trying to land Parise.  He was something they got in addition to looking for a top-six scoring forward.

Just like when they made an offer to Sami Salo it wasn’t instead of Suter, it was in addition to trying to get Suter.

Lidstrom’s been declining for years now, Garth.

Yes, by his standards he was, but he was still the choice for the best defenseman in the league ONE CALENDAR YEAR AGO.

It’s a 2 year 6 million dollar contract, Garth.

Which part of what I said was a lie?

What logjam?

Including Abdelkader the’ll have 16 forwards, four of whom are legitimate top-six forwards.  Hell, I’ll pretend you’re right and say that Sammy is a top six as well, just for the sake of argument.  That leaves 11 who are bottom-six forwards…wait, no, I’ll even give you Eaves.  That makes 10 forwards who are bottom-six.  By my math that’s four more than they need in the bottom six.  Is that not a logjam?  I gave you two of them and there are STILL way too many.

No, I’m saying he’ll likely miss a few games here or there with injuries and a few games here or their for ‘time off’ at a minimum, and before you know it he’ll be around the 15 game point.

And you have no basis for any of that.

Thanks.

Posted by Garth on 08/28/12 at 09:24 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.