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Red Wings GM Holland, ESPN’s LeBrun on Detroit Sports 105.1; Holland on WDFN, Babcock on Fan 590

Red Wings GM Ken Holland addressed his decision to trrade Patrick Eaves, Calle Jarnkrok and a 3rd round pick (which becomes a second-rounder if the Wings make the playoffs) in an interview on Detroit Sports 105.1 FM's Matt Dery today...

Duff and Cotsonika were critical of the move...

And ESPN's Pierre LeBrun also spoke to Dery as well, discussing the trade deadline from a wider perspective:

Holland also appeared on WDFN's Matt Sheppard show...

And Red Wings coach Mike Babcock appeared on The Fan 590, too:

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Paul's avatar

I listened live to both interviews, Holland basically said others where ahead of Jamkrok on depth chart plus as George pointed out, he defended the dea.

Both interviews are good listens, LeBrun impressed by Nyquist and Tatar but does say, no Z or Dats, going deep in playoffs is out of the picture.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 03/06/14 at 01:38 PM ET

Zqto's avatar

Dont need to be a genius to know we cant go far into the playoff without Z and Pavs…  But I loved the KH burn on those writters, that was awesome, regardless if the trade ends up beeing good or bad

Posted by Zqto on 03/06/14 at 01:46 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Added Babcock on Fan 590 and Holland on WDFN.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/06/14 at 01:47 PM ET

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Anyone ask KH why he said that their strategy would NOT be affected by injuries and they would not trade prospects for rentals only to do exactly that?  Anyone ask what happens when Weiss, Helm and Datsyuk return?  Probably not, just another KH slobber fest.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 01:50 PM ET

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Well, there you go everyone, Jarnkrok is a bottom 6 forward according to KH.

Posted by George0211 on 03/06/14 at 02:07 PM ET

NickLidstrom's avatar

Bababooey,

Didn’t Holland say those things before we learned about Datsyuk/Helm being out for a an indefinite amount of time? What are your thoughts when putting your lineup together and seeing Andersson, Sheahan, Glendening and Emmerton down the middle?

I am all for trying your hardest to get into the playoffs. Any playoff team can win any series. I’m not saying the Wings have a great shot at winning the cup, but make the playoffs and you have a chance. They were up 3-2 against the Hawks last year, after barely getting into the playoffs, only to lose in OT in game 7. The Hawks went on to win the cup. The LA Kings won the cup as an 8th seed a few years ago. Etc etc.

Big IFs, but IF the Wings do somehow make it into the playoffs, Legwand would be a big part of that. If you have a healthy Hank, Pav, Helm and company back in the lineup at that time, we have a whole new ballgame.

Lastly, I don’t think having too many centers is ever a bad thing. Look at Team Canada! (sarcasm)

Posted by NickLidstrom from a Higher Ground on 03/06/14 at 02:10 PM ET

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Didn’t Holland say those things before we learned about Datsyuk/Helm being out for a an indefinite amount of time? What are your thoughts when putting your lineup together and seeing Andersson, Sheahan, Glendening and Emmerton down the middle?

I am all for trying your hardest to get into the playoffs. Any playoff team can win any series. I’m not saying the Wings have a great shot at winning the cup, but make the playoffs and you have a chance. They were up 3-2 against the Hawks last year, after barely getting into the playoffs, only to lose in OT in game 7. The Hawks went on to win the cup. The LA Kings won the cup as an 8th seed a few years ago. Etc etc.

Big IFs, but IF the Wings do somehow make it into the playoffs, Legwand would be a big part of that. If you have a healthy Hank, Pav, Helm and company back in the lineup at that time, we have a whole new ballgame.

Lastly, I don’t think having too many centers is ever a bad thing. Look at Team Canada! (sarcasm)

KH said those things literally 24 hours earlier, did he not know abouth Helm’s and Datysuk’s status then?  I have no problems with icing a lineup of Andresson, Sheahan, Gelndening down the middle, not because I think it’s competitive, but because it gives us a chance to evaluate the kids.  I do not care if the Wings make the playoffs or not, this season has been a huge success because we found out that Jurco, Nyquist and Tatar are legit players with a chance at stardom.  We would never have known that if not for injuries.  The Red Wings are no longer elite so the question becomes is it better to remain a mediocore 8th seed type of team with no real shot at a Stanley Cup?  Or is it better to step back and give the kids a chance to develop then re-load once again?  Kind of like the Blackhawks did after 2010.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:26 PM ET

NickLidstrom's avatar

The Blackhawks “reloaded” by winning the draft lottery. They were a very bad organization for a very long time. I could only imagine the type of grief that would be given here to the Wings organization if they were managed and run as poorly as the Hawks were in the 90s/early 2000s. Nobody wants that.

The point I tried to make in my earlier post is that there is no such thing as a “mediocre” 8th seed. The Wings getting in and having Pav/Z/Helm/maybe even Weiss back, you know, actually being able to ice the team that they planned on having at the beginning of the season, would be huge. They could go up against any team in any series and have a shot to win. Any team can beat any other team in any series in the NHL. I think recent history has proven that. 

We are still given the ability to “evaluate the kids” with this lineup we have right now. I think we all know what Cory Emmerton is capable of. Nyquist/Tatar/Jurco are still going to get their opportunities. I think, as Malik has pointed out this season, Andersson has proven himself expendable with the rise of Sheahan and Glendening.

I don’t know about you, but I’m fairly confident the Wings are more concerned with winning and making the playoffs than putting out a team of rookies so we can see what they’re made of. If you want to watch a bunch of young kids learn how to play hockey, become an Oilers fan.

Posted by NickLidstrom from a Higher Ground on 03/06/14 at 02:33 PM ET

Crater's avatar

I do not care if the Wings make the playoffs or not

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:26 PM ET

I think thats where every other Wings fan disagrees with you.

the question becomes is it better to remain a mediocore 8th seed type of team with no real shot at a Stanley Cup?

Personally I’d rather my team scratch and claw to compete every game, rather than just give up and ice a bad team when there were reasonable options.

Posted by Crater from SoCal on 03/06/14 at 02:33 PM ET

moocat's avatar

Wouldn’t you rather evaluate the “kids” playoff performances as well?  I would much rather see them get NHL Playoff experience.

Besides the Blackhawks step back was self imposed because they screwed up the cap so bad they had to cut players. Players they wouldn’t have cut otherwise.

Posted by moocat on 03/06/14 at 02:39 PM ET

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Personally I’d rather my team scratch and claw to compete every game, rather than just give up and ice a bad team when there were reasonable options.

THIS.  I’d be more disappointing if KH didn’t do anything.  Give the poor man a break, at least he tried.

Posted by neffernin on 03/06/14 at 02:42 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

KH said those things literally 24 hours earlier, did he not know abouth Helm’s and Datysuk’s status then?

No, he didn’t actually.  They shut down Datsyuk at about 3:00 PM the day of the trade deadline, and Helm began having concussion type feelings the night before.

Anyone ask KH why he said that their strategy would NOT be affected by injuries and they would not trade prospects for rentals only to do exactly that?  Anyone ask what happens when Weiss, Helm and Datsyuk return?  Probably not, just another KH slobber fest.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 01:50 PM ET

Why do you keep blabbering on about things Holland told the media days ago?  Situations were different, number one, but honestly WHY THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO TELL THE TRUTH TO THE MEDIA?! 

Who cares what he tells the media - they aren’t his Board of Directors, nor should they know everything.

 

Posted by TreKronor on 03/06/14 at 02:43 PM ET

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Personally I’d rather my team scratch and claw to compete every game, rather than just give up and ice a bad team when there were reasonable options.

Trading a top line prospect is not a reasonable option.  David Legwand does notning to improve their Cup chances without Zetterberg or Datsyuk somewhat healthy, short of that there is no point.  Simple as that. 

[quoteWouldn’t you rather evaluate the “kids” playoff performances as well?  I would much rather see them get NHL Playoff experience. ]

We already did last year and they paid great, only to be banished back to the bench or Grand Rapids.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:43 PM ET

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Why do you keep blabbering on about things Holland told the media days ago?  Situations were different, number one, but honestly WHY THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO TELL THE TRUTH TO THE MEDIA?! 

Who cares what he tells the media - they aren’t his Board of Directors, nor should they know everything.

He has every other trade deadline, every other deadline he has forecasted his intentions.  Just like this one before he made his panic move. Datsyuk has been on one leg since he came home from the Olympics, so was it a surprise he wasn’t going to play?  And did his condition change in 24 hours?

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:45 PM ET

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THIS.  I’d be more disappointing if KH didn’t do anything.  Give the poor man a break, at least he tried.

Poor Holland making millions of dollars a year while making consistently awful decisions.  This was not a reasonable move, it was a move made from weakness and desperation simple as that.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:47 PM ET

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Trading a top line prospect is not a reasonable option. 

Good thing he didn’t, then.

Posted by captaineclectic on 03/06/14 at 02:48 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Datsyuk’s condition did change in 24 hours. He went from day-to-day till completely “shut down” for three weeks, and probably not back until sometime in April. Holland stated that such a situation would change his opinion on rentals, and it did.

I’m not defending his move, nor do I agree with it, but the man is consistent regarding his rationale.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/06/14 at 02:51 PM ET

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Jarnkrok was a top prospect.  Only a Holland homer would say otherwise, it’s ok if you like the trade but no need for revisionist history here.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:53 PM ET

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Jarnkrok was a top prospect.  Only a Holland homer would say otherwise, it’s ok if you like the trade but no need for revisionist history here.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:53 PM ET

Actually Holland himself said they were projecting him as a bottom 6 forward.

Posted by George0211 on 03/06/14 at 02:54 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

He has every other trade deadline, every other deadline he has forecasted his intentions.  Just like this one before he made his panic move. Datsyuk has been on one leg since he came home from the Olympics, so was it a surprise he wasn’t going to play?  And did his condition change in 24 hours?

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:45 PM ET

I get it…your just pissed because you weren’t aware of Holland’s every intention, and you feel he did you a disservice by not revealing things he didn’t know. 

Dude, give it up.

Posted by TreKronor on 03/06/14 at 02:55 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Jarnkrok was and is a top prospect. There are however very legitimate concerns about his size/strength—which were always there—and there are legitimate and independent reports that he may want to go back to Sweden.

Those issues don’t change the fact that the Wings paid an enormous price for Legwand, but they help *explain what the management—more than Holland—might have been thinking* about moving him.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/06/14 at 02:55 PM ET

Alan's avatar

that their strategy would NOT be affected by injuries and they would not trade prospects for rentals only to do exactly that?

There is yet no evidence to suggest we’re “renting” Legwand. From the sound of it, Kenny seems pretty confident that Legwand will want to stay.

If you go based on what Kenny said in the interviews, he places Jarnkrok in our bottom six. That gives him little opportunity to make it here. He could be an addition to Nashville’s lineup in their next game. If we manage to keep Legwand, it’s a victory for everyone.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 03/06/14 at 03:00 PM ET

moocat's avatar

We already did last year and they paid great, only to be banished back to the bench or Grand Rapids.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:43 PM ET

Funny, I don’t remember Tatar, Jurco, and Sheehan playing last year.

Posted by moocat on 03/06/14 at 03:01 PM ET

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quote]Actually Holland himself said they were projecting him as a bottom 6 forward

Revisionist history, he was always thought of and being developed as a top 6 forward.  You can like the trade or hate it (like I do) but it was done out of desperation and in my opinion if Zetterberg and Datsyuk are not able to carry the team they are going nowhere, simple as that.  So if the Wings make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed and get knocked out was that any better than keeping all their prospects?  I don’t think it is.  If the Wings were an elite team still and a favorite to win the Cup or come close I would not have an issue with it but they’re no longer elite and Legwand does nothing to change their fortunes.  Their fortunes lie in the health of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:01 PM ET

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Funny, I don’t remember Tatar, Jurco, and Sheehan playing last year

Funny, Tatar and Nyquist did

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:01 PM ET

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There is yet no evidence to suggest we’re “renting” Legwand. From the sound of it, Kenny seems pretty confident that Legwand will want to stay.

If you go based on what Kenny said in the interviews, he places Jarnkrok in our bottom six. That gives him little opportunity to make it here. He could be an addition to Nashville’s lineup in their next game. If we manage to keep Legwand, it’s a victory for everyone.

Great Legwand stays, so we spend another $5mm for a 3rd line center now?  Or 4th line center?  Wha happens with Helm and Sheahan?  You want to swap Weiss for Legwand?  Great, all for it but let’s be real, this GM will not do that so we would be stuck with another aging vet taking up space and icetime.  Gee, I wonder why Jarnkrok wanted to leave again?

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:03 PM ET

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Revisionist history, he was always thought of and being developed as a top 6 forward.  You can like the trade or hate it (like I do) but it was done out of desperation and in my opinion if Zetterberg and Datsyuk are not able to carry the team they are going nowhere, simple as that.  So if the Wings make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed and get knocked out was that any better than keeping all their prospects?  I don’t think it is.  If the Wings were an elite team still and a favorite to win the Cup or come close I would not have an issue with it but they’re no longer elite and Legwand does nothing to change their fortunes.  Their fortunes lie in the health of Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:01 PM ET

I don’t think anyone argues that the trade was done out of desperation. All your top centers are out indefinitely. You have to do something.
Maybe making the playoffs is not important to you, but it is important to every team in the league. I don’t agree with Legwand not changing anything, he gives Wings a legitimate NHL center. Also, if he does resign, he will push Weiss which is a good thing.
I would agree with you that this wouldn’t make sense if Wings were out of the playoffs already, but they are not and I don’t see a reason why they should just give up.

Posted by George0211 on 03/06/14 at 03:06 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Riley Sheahan also played in one game for the Wings last year.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/06/14 at 03:07 PM ET

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KH said those things literally 24 hours earlier, did he not know abouth Helm’s and Datysuk’s status then?

No, he did not.  He did an interview with TSN around noon (ET) saying that they would be finding out how serious Helm’s and Pav’s injuries were “in about half an hour”.

Posted by Garth on 03/06/14 at 03:14 PM ET

peiz11's avatar

It’s funny hearing the same exact arguments as last year of why “i don’t care if they make the playoffs the kids need to play!” Well, they did make the playoffs last year and almost made a run. Who’s to say if they get somewhat healthy they can’t make another one. I’ve grown tired of people wanting to see what the young kids have. We know what we have, I don’t need another year to understand they have talent. Let’s see put them in the best position possible to win. Not making a move for another center wasn’t putting them in that position.

Posted by peiz11 from Minneapolis on 03/06/14 at 03:20 PM ET

peiz11's avatar

And Legwand makes $4.5 now, I doubt he’s getting a raise on his next deal.

Posted by peiz11 from Minneapolis on 03/06/14 at 03:23 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

TSN Bob McKenzie voted that the Holland move was the best of the deadline moves, for what that means.

Time to turn the page and look forward to Leggy and Pulkkinen make their debuts on a exciting night.

I hope a couple of more get called up like D MEN!!!! with the expanded roster

Time to sit the done old Wings

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 03/06/14 at 03:28 PM ET

moocat's avatar

Wouldn’t you rather evaluate the “kids” playoff performances as well?  I would much rather see them get NHL Playoff experience.

We already did last year and they paid great, only to be banished back to the bench or Grand Rapids.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 02:43 PM ET

Funny, I don’t remember Tatar, Jurco, and Sheehan playing last year

Funny, Tatar and Nyquist did

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:01 PM ET

Not in the playoffs.

Posted by moocat on 03/06/14 at 03:36 PM ET

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One thing that gets discounted, is IF they get in the playoffs, they may get Z back, or Dats back… so if there is that chance I say go for it.  Also, playoff game experience, not to mention, playing to make it into the playoffs, is GREAT experience for these kids you want to see play.  I don’t want to see Anderson on the top line, nor do I really want to see any more of Emmerton, so while I am hugely bummed about Jarnkrok, and agree it was desperation, it was calculated desperation and sometimes, your luck stinks.  Regardless of how high a prospect he was, or where he is slotted on the depth chart, the simple matter is Z and Dats are here for a while, Weiss is signed for 4 more years, Helm is still here, Sheahan is looking good, and you have Anderson and Glendening.  So, when per say was Jarnkrok going to actually get a chance?  If rumors are true, he was getting antsy.  I don’t mind that they traded him, more that they traded him for a rental…but fact is, Legwand will make this team better right now and give them a chance at least, to get in.  Steep price, but it is what it is.  It’s the day after the trade….lets see what happens.  Crazy things can happen such as keeping Legwand and flipping Weiss… who knows.  But I for one would love it, even with the steep price, to see them get in and get Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan some playoff game experience, and some more for Nyquist, Smith and Danny D.  Playoff wars are partially what helped make Dats and Z into the players they are.

Posted by DieByTheWing on 03/06/14 at 03:36 PM ET

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Not in the playoffs.

Posted by moocat on 03/06/14 at 03:36 PM ET

Nyquist did

Posted by George0211 on 03/06/14 at 03:37 PM ET

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TSN Bob McKenzie voted that the Holland move was the best of the deadline moves, for what that means.

Time to turn the page and look forward to Leggy and Pulkkinen make their debuts on a exciting night.

I hope a couple of more get called up like D MEN!!!! with the expanded roster

Time to sit the done old Wings

Again without Zetterberg and Datsyuk carrying this team they have no chance.  So whether or not Legwand was acquired or not MAY mean an extra few weeks into May, but as long as the two I mentioned are not healthy, the Wings have no shot.  So if that is the case I’d rather they had held onto Jarnkrok.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:43 PM ET

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Again without Zetterberg and Datsyuk carrying this team they have no chance.  So whether or not Legwand was acquired or not MAY mean an extra few weeks into May, but as long as the two I mentioned are not healthy, the Wings have no shot.  So if that is the case I’d rather they had held onto Jarnkrok.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:43 PM ET

And again, if they can stay afloat for the next 3 weeks, with Weiss and Helm possibly coming back next week, hopefully Pav comes back and you never know.
If Mule can continue scoring like he has, I don’t see why they can’t do it.

Posted by George0211 on 03/06/14 at 03:45 PM ET

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By the way, I am not advocating them tanking just that they gave up a lot for a chance to play in April, and without Zetterberg and Datsyuk it won’t make any difference.

Posted by bababooey on 03/06/14 at 03:46 PM ET

moocat's avatar

Not in the playoffs.

Posted by moocat on 03/06/14 at 03:36 PM ET

Nyquist did

Posted by George0211 on 03/06/14 at 03:37 PM ET

I didn’t say Nyquist.

Posted by moocat on 03/06/14 at 03:48 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

If you listen to Holland on WDFN with Matt Sheppard, he states that the Wings believed that Jarnkrok wasn’t necessarily too happy with the concept of staying in the AHL beyond this season, and that given the Wings’ set of centers ahead of him…That may have been an issue going forward.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/06/14 at 03:50 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.