Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Red Wings-Ducks quick take: Wings may be undermanned, but enough is enough

I understand that the Red Wings had eight "regular" players absent and nine once Kyle Quincey boneheadedly boarded Ryan Getzlaf, but watching Tomas Jurco's first NHL goal give way to five Ducks goals--after Mike Babcock went out of his way to state that the Wings couldn't race Anaheim to 5 goals--yielded what I would argue is the lowest point of the Red Wings' season, and what I hope remains as such, in the form of a 5-2 loss to the Ducks.

Plain and simple, the Wings were awful. They killed 3:25 of the Quincey major and killed every other Ducks penalty, but Gustavsson (who was ran by Selanne prior to the first goal; it was uncalled) gave up 3 ugly goals in which he received no help whatsoever from a Wings defense corps standing around as the Ducks cycled it down low and slid pucks into the net, and Mrazek surrendered what ended up being the dagger on his first shot against.

The Wings at least managed to play with some structure and persistence at points, but Pavel Datsyuk does indeed look like he's re-learning how to play fearlessly after returning from a concussion, Daniel Alfredsson, Todd Bertuzzi and Niklas Kronwall were trying far too hard to force things, Daniel Cleary's desire to keep his job (see: the last-2-minutes goal actually capping off a surprisingly superb effort from #71) resulted in penalties against, and neither the call-ups nor the "support" players were very good.

If anything, Mrazek's saves after the game was 5-1 and the Wings' few attempts to actually play simple hockey and drive to the net were the "highlights" of the effort of a team that's now 5-9-and-6 at the Joe and has won 2 in 16 at JLA (and the Wings haven't won in 6 games anywhere, either, going 0-4-and-2).

Any way you slice it, regardless of the roster complications, it's simply unacceptable to continue losing like this at home, and the Red Wings need to take this loss to last year's first round foe--a first round foe that jumped all over Detroit and kept kicking when the Wings were down--and turn it into the kind of teachable moment that results in a literal refresher and/or breath of fresh air during tomorrow's outdoor practice at Comerica Park (doors open at 11 for the noon practice, Gate D will be open and parking is $6) and strong performances against the Flames on Thursday, in Toronto on Saturday and against the Islanders on Monday.

There simply is no margin for error in the Wings' record or schedule to come, and if the Wings have to call up Almquist or Ouellet, if they have to call up another forward, if they're playing the entire Griffins roster or if they're icing one of their Alumni Showdown rosters, regardless of the team's personnel (and regardless of those damn HBO cameras), the Wings have to represent themselves and the people who pay to watch them much, much better after tonight's effort.

We are all "owed" after this one, and we've been "owed" for a while. It's up to the Wings to ensure that Thursday represents the first "lump sum" payment of something that's more than coal.

We've gotten enough efforts "representing decayed plant matter placed underneath tremendous pressure over time" for an entire 82-game season already. It's time to turn the ship around, and it's up to the "guys in the room," whoever they may be, and the coaching staff to finally shake the shit out of their systems and to get back to the business of playing like the Detroit Red Wings are rightfully expected to play...

Way, way, way *#$%@& better than they did during tonight's shitstorm's worth of self-inflicted wounds.

Statistics:

Shots 30-18 Anaheim overall. Anaheim out-shot Detroit 12-5 in the 1st, 10-7 in the 2nd and 8-6 in the 3rd.

Special teams: Anaheim went 0-for-3 in 7:05 of PP time; Detroit went 0-for-2 in 2:05.

Goaltending: Jonas Hiller stopped 28 of 30 shots; Jonas Gustavsson stopped 8 of 11; Petr Mrazek stopped 17 of 19.

The 3 stars were picked by Michgian Radio's Rich Kincaide, and he picked Tomas Jurco, Corey Perry and Andrew Cogliano.

The Wings' goal: Jurco (1) from Miller (4) and Quincey (4).

Faceoffs 29-25 Detroit (Detroit won 54%);

Blocked shots 13-7 Detroit;

Missed shots 9-7 Anaheim (total attempts 52-32 Anaheim);

Hits 23-10 Detroit;

Giveaways 10-5 Detroit;

Takeaways 9-4 Detroit.

Individual stats:

Faceoffs: Datsyuk went 12-and-5 (71%); Glendening went 5-and-6 (45%); Andersson went 5-and-6 (45%); Sheahan went 6-and-3 (67%); Tatar went 1-and-2 (33%); Eaves went 0-and-2; Miller lost his only faceoff.

Shots: Kindl, Alfredsson, Datsyuk, Eaves, Tatar, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and Cleary had 2 shots; Smith, Datsyuk, Jurco and Glendening had 1.

Blocked attempts: Smith and Lashoff fired 2 attempts into Ducks players; Datsyuk, Eaves and Tatar had 1 attempt blocked.

Missed shots: Kindl, Eaves, Andersson, Tatar, Lashoff, Kronwall and Cleary had 1 attempt blocked.

Hits: Kronwall led the Wings with 4 hits; Miller, Bertuzzi and Ericsson had 3; Tatar, Jurco and Quincey had 2; Alfredsson, Lashoff, Glendening and Cleary had 1.

Giveaways: Miller had 2 giveaways; Kindl, Alfredsson, Datsyuk, Andersson, Bertuzzi, Ericsson, Cleary and Mrazek had 1.

Takeaways: Sheahan had 3 takeaways; Glendening had 2; Kindl, Alfredsson, Datsyuk and Andersson had 1.

Blocked opponent shots: Lashoff and Kronwall blocked 3 Ducks shots; Miller and Glendening blocked 2; Alfredsson, Eaves and Bertuzzi blocked 1.

Penalties taken: Quincey took a major; Cleary took 2 minors.

Plus-minus: The Wings were a collective -14. Andersson was -3; Kindl, Lashoff, Samuelsson and Kronwall were -2; Alfredsson, Tatar, Glendening, Bertuzzi and Cleary were -1; Miller and Jurco were +1.

Points: Jurco and Cleary had goals; Miller, Quincey and Glendening had assists.

Ice time: Smith led the team with 25:12 played; Kronwall played 23:16; Ericsson played 23:07;

Lashoff played 21:03; Kindl played 18:26; Miller played 17:56;

Datsyuk played 17:04; Andersson played 16:14; Alfredsson played 15:43;

Bertuzzi played 15:17; Eaves played 14:52; Tatar played 13:55;

Glendening played 13:37; Cleary played 13:11; Jurco played 12:54;

Sheahan played 12:21; Samuelsson played 9:47; Quincey played 7:05.

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Comments

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Alan's avatar

Looking at the bright side, Toronto also lost.

Let’s take some of that energy we displayed at the end and build off of it on Thursday. Maybe we’ll have someone back from IR by then, too, but I’m not holding my breath.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 12/17/13 at 11:10 PM ET

DocF's avatar

With very few exceptions the Red Wings looked as if some high school girl’s softball team had stolen their equipment and pretended to be NHL hockey players.  This was the worst effort I can remember since the “Days of Darkness with Harkness”.  The team is playing very tentative hockey right now and that results in making things even more difficult.  The whole team, except D. Cleary, played like Samuelsson.

Posted by DocF from Now: Lynn Haven, FL; was Reidsville, NC on 12/17/13 at 11:14 PM ET

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Quincy, Kindl, and Andersson all sitting at a healthy -10. Bert somehow has a -8 even though hes never on the pk. I can see how Hank hurt his back look at all the dead weight he’s carrying.

Posted by brians neck on 12/17/13 at 11:25 PM ET

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I don’t mean this as an excuse, but how can you say enough is enough when 40% of your the regulars are injured?  The waxwings can’t always turn it around when they’re healthy, how do you expect them to do that without so many regulars?  The starting goalie, their best PKer, four of (what should be) their top six including their captain, one of their best defenseman…and Justin Abdelkader…are all out.  They HAVE to play Cleary AND Sammy at the same time.

“Enough is enough”?

Hell, they should be commended for even bothering to dress for the game.

Posted by Garth on 12/17/13 at 11:31 PM ET

Alan's avatar

I don’t mean this as an excuse, but how can you say enough is enough when 40% of your the regulars are injured?

Did you watch the game? We didn’t really start skating until the end of the third period. Playing a total of ~10 minutes of hockey in a 60 minute game is no way to win. There could have been more effort or competition out there than there was. I wouldn’t feel so bad about the loss if we actually battled. Instead, we spent the balance of the game playing tentative with the puck, and we didn’t really do a good job defending.

Thursday’s game. Will we see a full 60 (at this point, I would *accept* 50 or 60, so long as we grind) of what we saw at the end of this game? Or will we see more of the same?

I know, we have *eight* core players are sidelined (and a pylon might end up suspended). I totally get that. Win or lose, I just want to see some actual, honest to gods effort out there. That effort was there at the very beginning, and the very end, and that’s unacceptable.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 12/17/13 at 11:52 PM ET

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Any way you slice it, regardless of the roster complications, it’s simply unacceptable to continue losing like this at home,

That’s a nice sentiment, George, and it’s certainly something I can imagine some coach saying in the lockerroom after the game… but it’s just not based in reality, specifically with regards to how hockey is played.

Detroit does not have enough good players to win games.  You cannot have this many important players out and expect to be competitive.  That’s the bottom line here.  You can say ‘enough is enough’ all you want, but there is a degree of disparate talent that no amount of rah-rah go git em tigers motivation could surmount.

Detroit’s to that point and beyond.  They’re missing 26 million dollars worth of players.  There’s no mysterious fix to this, George.  None.  There’s no strategy to hide the vast flaws of the active roster.  There’s nothing to be done but wait.

Until Detroit gets some players back they’re going to suck.  You can’t take a Honda Fit to MIS and win a NASCAR event.  Doesn’t matter who is driving or who the pit crew includes.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 12/17/13 at 11:54 PM ET

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There is now the potential that this will be 3 out of the last 4 years Wings will be top 5 in man games lost.  Strange. Very Strange.

That being said. Being short on staff doesnt mean your regulars like Kronwall and Andersson can blow coverage. It was a poor effort.

Posted by brians neck on 12/18/13 at 12:06 AM ET

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Did you watch the game?

Did you see the part where the majority of their top six are injured (while one who is playing is recently back from injury and hasn’t looked like himself)?

The team is inconsistent at the best of times and you’d be hard pressed to find many “60 minute efforts” by the team when they’re 100% healthy, so why would you expect a great, competitive game by a team that has half of its roster who are either guys who wouldn’t be playing in the NHL because their careers are over and guys who are having their first taste of NHL action?  There are no top six lines, there are no consistent lines.  They’re forced to play, along with the young guys who may or may not ever make it to the NHL, guys who were regular healthy scratches (including one who lost his job to “whoever we can get from Grand Rapids tonight”) and guys who were waived by the team that chose to pay them their NHL salaries to not play in the NHL.

Again.  This is a ragtag groups of rookies, has-beens and discarded pieces.  How do you expect them to compete with the #2 team in the entire league?

Posted by Garth on 12/18/13 at 12:08 AM ET

Nate A's avatar

I didn’t get to watch tonite’s game, but I agree with Garth.  The team was pretty mediocre before all these injuries hit. And then Quincy was lost for 2/3 of the game after his idiot play. Hate him or not, that shortens an already weak blue line.

I mean, it sucks and all, but what can ya do? Maybe the effort wasn’t there tonite, I can’t speak to that. But other recent games I’ve seen haven’t been an effort issue, and much to Babcock’s chagrin, sometimes all the hard work in the world just cant overcome lack of skill.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 12/18/13 at 12:18 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

I usually tune out people who say the team has tuned out the coach, but they’re playing with the lifelessness of a cephalopod thrown to the ice at the Joe on any given night.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 12/18/13 at 12:25 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

And yes, I acknowledge they’re limping and bringing up lots of AHL’ers, but let’s not forget that the Griffins could probably beat several NHL teams on any given night. These are ripe, NHL ready players who lacked a spot on the roster until now.

Babcock needs to give this team their spark. He’s not getting it done.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 12/18/13 at 12:27 AM ET

Alan's avatar

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 12/17/13 at 11:25 PM ET

I personally don’t think Babcock is the problem. I really have no idea what our problem could be. I just know what I saw tonight, and aside from more decent play from the kids, it was pretty gruesome. I used to watch a lot of Thrashers games, when we had them here in Atlanta, and it was *that* bad.

Thursday against Calgary. They lost tonight, too. Let’s break our skid and add to theirs. Gods, I hope we get someone back from injury on Thursday. Not just someone being thrown to the wolves, either—I think something is still wrong with Datsyuk. It’s not just “an off night” anymore, it’s several off nights in a row.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 12/18/13 at 12:32 AM ET

George Malik's avatar

No overnight report tonight. I have been bailing through a bug for 10 days and if the Wings had won 5-1 I’d still need to call it a night.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 12/18/13 at 12:44 AM ET

calquake's avatar

I think something is still wrong with Datsyuk. It’s not just “an off night” anymore, it’s several off nights in a row.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 12/17/13 at 11:32 PM ET

Because if it’s not then Pav is just not “feelin” it right now… for whatever reason and that’s not good.

Posted by calquake on 12/18/13 at 12:59 AM ET

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If they truly can’t play like the Red Wings need to, then they should just try something new.

At the very least, just approach things incredibly simply. Get one shot on goal every time you enter the offensive zone. Something…

Posted by CrimsonPhoenix on 12/18/13 at 01:02 AM ET

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The Griffins are having the best run in their history so I agree, they should be ready to best some NHLers.

Posted by griffinsfan on 12/18/13 at 01:11 AM ET

babymachine's avatar

I definitely enjoyed it when Jurco scored. Unfortunately, it was all down hill from there.

Few things: Andersson played uncharacteristically poor on defense. Kindl had a rough game. Our D-men had some legit chances from the point (at least it seemed that way from my viewing angle) and they missed the net. How did Lidstrom make it look so easy getting those clappers through back in the day? Maybe he can give our D some pointers when he’s back in town.

Posted by babymachine from Portland, Oregon by way of Macomb, Michigan on 12/18/13 at 01:25 AM ET

bleep bloop's avatar

Yes Cleary scored his second goal in a handful of games. But on the same play as his penalty, he had the puck on his stick with plenty of time to make a play and get the puck out of the zone but just stood there while a Ducks player easily took it away. Then he took the lazy tripping penalty rather than actually skating and pressuring the puckholder. Then he tripped another Ducks player as soon as he got out of the penalty box.

In the third period when the only question was the end score (I was about 90% certain they would lose before puck drop, but I thought the lead would last more than 20 seconds or whatever), I hoped they wouldn’t feel as much pressure and would be able to play better. I must have shouted “skate!” at the screen at least half a dozen times while they continued to stand around looking lost.

Detroit does not have enough good players to win games.

There’s a reason only Pittsburgh and Washington win any games. Oh wait, that’s not true at all.

There’s no mysterious fix to this, George.

You’re right about that. They just have to stop being so stupid and that will fix most of it. Simple.

There is now the potential that this will be 3 out of the last 4 years Wings will be top 5 in man games lost.  Strange. Very Strange.

I think there must be a problem with the trainers, nutritionists, whoever else.

The team is inconsistent at the best of times

They aren’t though. I keep seeing the same stupid plays and blown coverage every game, so that’s pretty consistent. And the fact it doesn’t get fixed is the coaches fault. Just like apparently not practicing for shootouts.

Posted by bleep bloop on 12/18/13 at 02:24 AM ET

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There’s a reason only Pittsburgh and Washington win any games. Oh wait, that’s not true at all.

That’s a fairly good example of a frothy, silly bit of internet snark which serves only to be snide without actually addressing the realities of the situation or making a substantive, relevant point.

We aren’t talking about Detroit missing a player   Or two.  Or three.  Or six.  We’re talking about eight freaking players out due to injury.  And we’re not talking about 8 marginal players, we’re talking about:

Hurt-Datsyuk-Hurt
Hurt-Hurt-Alfredsson
Bertuzzi-Hurt-Cleary
Who cares.

We’re talking about the #3 dman.  We’re talking about the starting goalie.

Seriously, Detroit ran a line out there of Miller-Andersson-Tatar last night.  Not bad for a fourth line though, right?  Well, it was the second line.  Whoops.

A team can (and should) be constructed in a manner to weather some degree of injury over the course of a year.  There is no way to construct a team that can withstand the deluge of injuries Detroit has had this year.

That’s just simple fact.  Blaming the coach for not getting what is ostensibly a very good AHL team over the hump, or the GM for not having an additional 8 immediately NHL ready players in his system just twiddling their thumbs… that’s crazy talk.

It’s not an ‘effort’ thing either.  When you have what is essentially an entirely different roster with entirely different players playing entirely different roles you get what we’ve seen: a jumbled up mess where it looks like guys are swimming in quicksand.  Pucks aren’t where they are supposed to be because the people making the pass are worse.  Players aren’t where they are supposed to be because they have trained themselves towards one set of reactions and in an entirely different role don’t act instinctively.

So pucks bang around, guys blow coverage after coverage, you don’t see three passes made under momentum without a failure and a possession scrum, and as soon as the team gets down 2 goals you can write them off because they don’t have the horsepower to score 3.

And, while competent, the goaltending isn’t Hasek circa 1998 level to bail the team out over and over and over again.

They’re going to lose, lose often and lose big until they get at least half of their injured guys back and playing well.

Buckle up.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 12/18/13 at 08:36 AM ET

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As Red said in the GDT “This might get ugly” Well, it did. Here is how I look at this.
A loss was expected. I started watching the game with a hope of Wings playing NJ Devils from the 90’s style defense, somehow scoring first goal and maybe just maybe pulling a point out of this somehow.
Situation was 1 of the best teams in the NHL playing against an AHL team with a couple NHL players on it.
In my opinion, a loss like this might be a good thing in the long run. A kick in the rear for some of the guys on the team. Quincey getting suspended (hopefully) might be the best thing for this team right now. He has been the worst D-man the entire season, so keeping him off the ice for a couple games might actually help.
Datsyuk, I really hope this is a case of him still getting back into playing form. This is not Pavel Datsyuk we are used to seeing.
Also, what in the hell happened to Kindl and Andersson? I’m amazed at the fact that they actually took a couple steps back in their development. Andersson, I don’t remember being this bad of a skater last spring.
WTF

Posted by George0211 on 12/18/13 at 09:24 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

Jurco’s goal came when the Wings went to the middle of the ice. Far too many SOGs are thrown from the side boards and sail wide or high. Pittsburgh’s PP made us look silly because they skated right up the gut and scored. They need to find ways to get off the boards and get to the center. They weren’t even doing that when two of their best centers were healthy.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 12/18/13 at 09:25 AM ET

Figaro's avatar

I actually thought Sheahan played fairly well (in comparison). There was one point where he defended Getzlaf one-on-one and rode him right off the puck. 

As a life-long Cubs and Lions fan, I just want to remind everyone to take a deep breath and try to understand that it can be soooo much worse.  We just need to do as Mickey says, hope to grind out a point here and there until Captain Hank and the cavalry show up and we can start rebuilding line chemistry.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 12/18/13 at 10:39 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Soft, heartless hockey. Great job, Kenny

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 12/18/13 at 10:42 AM ET

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There simply is no margin for error ...

Really?  Check the standings.  The east is awful.  This game means absolutely nothing.  Are you going to start calling every game for the rest of the season a “must-win” when it’s not like you did a month into the season last year?

yielded what I would argue is the lowest point of the Red Wings’ season

How can this possibly be?  What did you seriously expect, a 5-2 win?  The first loss to Ottawa was way worse with nearly a healthy lineup and absolutely no push back when those guys started running around.  There have been quite a few losses worse than this.

I really don’t understand what you (and others) are so worried, upset, and/or freaked out about.  Other than the Jurco goal, it’s a complete throwaway game, just as any rational human being expected it would be.

Posted by jkm2011 on 12/18/13 at 11:08 AM ET

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Quincy, Kindl, and Andersson all sitting at a healthy -10. Bert somehow has a -8 even though hes never on the pk. I can see how Hank hurt his back look at all the dead weight he’s carrying.

LOL HILARIOUS. So true though.

Posted by Pasha1277 on 12/18/13 at 11:16 AM ET

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Bert somehow has a -8 even though hes never on the pk.
Posted by brians neck on 12/17/13 at 10:25 PM ET

You don’t get a minus when PP scores against you.

Posted by George0211 on 12/18/13 at 11:18 AM ET

SuperMatt75's avatar

Seriously, Detroit ran a line out there of Miller-Andersson-Tatar last night.  Not bad for a fourth line though, right?  Well, it was the second line.  Whoops.

Just to emphasize this point -
Looking at the ice time, you could argue that was our first line.  Miller lead all forwards in ice time.

Posted by SuperMatt75 from the cool side of the pillow on 12/18/13 at 11:19 AM ET

Figaro's avatar

Miller lead all forwards in ice time.

One could argue that Miller has been our most consistent forward over the last few weeks.  This is equally awesome and depressing.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 12/18/13 at 11:21 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

This is a dark, dark day for me.  Not because the Wings are aweful, but because I actually agree with HiHD.

But before I go hide in a dark and quiet room and contemplate what I’ve done so wrong with my life that it could have led to me this lowest of points, i’ll say this:

No team could lose the number and level of players that Detroit has without being terrible.  There are teams with 3,4, or 5 top five 1st rounders playing with an entirely healthy lineup, and still can’t win against other marginal teams.  How in the world can anyone expect the Wings to compete with the #2 team in the league missing 2 forwards line, a starting goalie, and an entire defensive pairing (after Q tried to make Getzlaf a permenant part of the boards)?

The really shitty part is, “analysts” (enfasis on the anal) will use this season and all the injuries as proof that the East is the tougher conference and that Detroit was just too small to compete.

Posted by Hootinani on 12/18/13 at 11:46 AM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Detroit was just too small to compete

We have had about the same number of man games lost to injury per games plated this year as last mini season in the West.
We can curse Jobu equally regardless of what conference we call home.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 12/18/13 at 12:05 PM ET

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HockeyinHD, your points in this thread have been spot-on. I can’t even watch the team play right now because it isn’t worth watching when I know they simply don’t have enough guys to compete with the best teams in the league. Two of the top three centers are gone, and you can even say three of four if Zetterberg is centering the second unit.

Andersson looks like an overachiever from last year. Perhaps it shouldn’t be a surprise since he came out of nowhere last year and no one expected him to be in this situation at this point in time anyway. I wonder what the internal view is of him - are they still sold on him or is he a guy who might start sitting when the team is back in healthy form?

This team is an embarrassing trainwreck. I won’t watch them until they have a reasonable roster of players playing. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lose every game until December 28 and maybe even beyond that.

Also, I bring this up again: why is it that year in, year out, this team has groin problems? Seriously? What is the strength and conditioning staff doing? Is it time to evaluate whether these people are doing things that are causing these injuries? I’ve had this thought in probably at least three of the last five or six seasons.

This is really depressing. I wait all year for hockey season just to watch the Wings and I can’t even bear to watch this team.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 12/18/13 at 12:08 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

    Bert somehow has a -8 even though hes never on the pk.
  Posted by brians neck on 12/17/13 at 10:25 PM ET

You don’t get a minus when PP scores against you.

Posted by George0211 on 12/18/13 at 10:18 AM ET

Yeah, nothing against Brian but I kinda stopped reading when I saw that.

As I ‘keyboard-vomitted’ over on A2Y…

I get that Pavel is very ‘off’ and is probably playing too soon…

...and I’m could get permabanned for saying this but…

...has Pavel ever carried this team by himself?

Yzerman has.

I’m not sure if Lidstrom has but given his postion…

Zetterberg has.

And all of those 3 have…produced when not playing 100%.

If this is what the team is producing with a 70 or 80% Pavel on the ice, sit him.

Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 12/18/13 at 11:08 AM ET

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 12/18/13 at 12:11 PM ET

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Also, I bring this up again: why is it that year in, year out, this team has groin problems? Seriously? What is the strength and conditioning staff doing?

Posted by VitoLambruski on 12/18/13 at 11:08 AM ET

I think we just have guys who have chronic problems or just injury prone. Hank has always had back issues. Helm and DeKeyser just seem to be made of glass. Weiss had a groin issues and seems that he came back too early and it got worse. I doubt that the organization has incompetent trainers, strength coaches.

Posted by George0211 on 12/18/13 at 12:13 PM ET

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The biggest issue with this team is defense… Quincey, Kindl and Lashoff are simply terrible.  Each constantly turnovers the puck, loses their man, is out of position, etc.  Holland put all his eggs in the Suter basket and when he signed in Minnesota there was no backup plan.  Two months later he signed Coliacovo (we all know how that played out).  This past summer there was no indication that Holland was even looking at UFA defensemen… Ferrence would have been a great signing (admittedly he got a pretty rich deal in EDM, but the Wings desperately needed a top 4 d-man with a physical component).  And then a few weeks ago Smid was traded from Edmonton to Calgary for reasonable compensation and the Wings seemingly didn’t even know Smid was available, WTF?  I was a big supporter of Holland but when he refused to move up to top management to allow Yzerman to become GM (when Tampa was offering) I lost a lot of respect for Holland.  He did what was best for him and not what was best for the organization.  Losing Yzerman (in the front office) has been a big blow.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 12/18/13 at 01:46 PM ET

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Also… I was not in favor of paying Filppula $5M per year (especially on a 5 year deal), but that was before knowing that the Wings would essentially give Weiss the same deal.  I liked the addition of Weiss (not the contract necessarily) but given how well Filppula (12 goals) has played in Tampa and how (outside of a handful of game) Weiss has been a non-factor, it looks as if Holland made another bad decision. 

If Illitch decided to fire Holland today, any chance Yzerman would leave Tampa?

Posted by Uncle Rico on 12/18/13 at 01:51 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Filppula was healthy, Weiss wasn’t, or was coming off of an injury plagued season. Much too soon to say it was a horrible decision given how the Wings know Filppula would never be consistent.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 12/18/13 at 01:57 PM ET

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Quincey, Kindl and Lashoff are simply terrible.

I agree with you about one of those.

it looks as if Holland made another bad decision.

Weiss may have been a bad decision (but I maintain that half a season is way too small a sampe size to make that call), but Filppula had played in Detroit long enough that we knew what he would do if he stayed in Detroit, and there’s no possible way to know if he would perform in Detroit the way he has in Tampa.  It seems pretty clear that a change of scenery is what he needed.

Posted by Garth on 12/18/13 at 02:04 PM ET

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Not saying it was a horrible decision to sign Weiss.  As I wrote above, at the time I liked the addition of Weiss - thought there was some upside if Weiss could get healthy and he offered more grit than Filppula - but it was a bad decision to let Fil walk on account of his contract demands and then give Weiss almost the exact same deal.

Posted by Uncle Rico on 12/18/13 at 02:13 PM ET

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but it was a bad decision to let Fil walk on account of his contract demands and then give Weiss almost the exact same deal.

I get it, but I’m saying that we knew what Filppula was going to be, so to give him that money would’ve been a bad move.

And again, I think it’s way, way, way too early to declare Weiss a bust and Filppula “the one that got away”.  Filppula had a great year when he was moved to the wing, but that was an aberration, and Weiss was a #1 centre in Florida, there’s still plenty of time for him to come around.

Not saying his was a good signing (I still would’ve preferred that they go after a scoring winger and just put either Zetterberg or Franzen at #2 centre), just saying it’s a little early to be declared a writeoff.

Posted by Garth on 12/18/13 at 02:33 PM ET

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Garth is right.  This bears repeating:

There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that Filppula or Hudler even would have had the success in DET they’ve had elsewhere.  Both had more than fair shots.

So go ahead and keep this in mind next time you suggest Filppula over Weiss—you would not be getting what Fil is doing now.  You would be still getting Fil from the past 3 or 4 years.  And it’s still very likely soon that the other shoe drops for Fil in TB and production dries up.

As to the rest…. this team is what it is.  I can’t help but notice Holland is not giving out quotes about how he “likes this team” anymore.

I still ultimately question if this team can make the playoffs.  Even healthy, there are too many holes and liabilities, let alone now.

Posted by Primis on 12/18/13 at 02:45 PM ET

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