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Mike Green On The Trade Talk

from Ansar Khan of Mlive,

Green has control over where he goes - even if he goes, technically - since he has a no-trade clause. He said management has not approached him about the possibility of waiving it and didn't want to comment on whether he would consider it.

"I can't give you answer to that right now," Green said. "As I said, I haven't even thought (about it), so I don't want to give you a half answer.

"A lot can go on, and obviously there's a potential for it, but as of right now I'm focused on day-to-day here. ... Everything is speculation until something happens."

Regardless of what happens, Green said he has enjoyed his time in Detroit.

"I do love it here," he said. "This organization is great, they've been very good to me. Like I said, I haven't read too much into it and I haven't thought too much about it until it presents itself."

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management has not approached him about the possibility of waiving it

I know what FS thinks about that…

Posted by VPalmer on 01/25/18 at 02:01 PM ET

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I personally think it’s pretty negligent that Kenny hasn’t even discussed it with him. Maybe they have and both agreed on the media script. This is possible. But if this is true, I just think it’s pretty foolish. If you haven’t even spoken to Green…then maybe Kenny also hasn’t actively engaged in any serious trade talks yet. That would also be negligent. This is the biggest trading chip we have had in a decade. It’s true when you think about it. We’ve clearly had more talented players than Green, but none were ever legitamately on the trade market. Their awful contracts usually made sure of that. So you have a valuable, valuable trade chip. You are 4 weeks away. And you never bothered to sit down and get a sense of what he wants? Maybe Green says he’s open to going to ANY team in a playoff spot to try and win a Cup. Cool. That makes it easy. But what if Green says his dream is California, or nothing. My family is considering signing in California as a UFA, and we want to use these 2-3 months as a trial to see if that lifestyle suits us. So forget Tampa. Forget going back to Washington. Forget New York. We want LA, Anaheim, or San Jose. That’s it Kenny. Like don’t you think it would be helpful to know this NOW so you can start trade talks Kenny?

I know I’m in the minority on this one. But we’re playing with fire here. Injury is another worry. I’d trade him today if I could.

Posted by fatsavage on 01/25/18 at 03:40 PM ET

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I know I’m in the minority on this one

I do not think you are, just some people will take a different position that you have just because, no matter how logical this position is. My assumption/hope here is both KH and Green spoke with each other multiple times in the past month and KH knows what Green wants and Green knows what KH wants (which I guess is wait till the last moment to see if we can go on a run).

Posted by VPalmer on 01/25/18 at 03:47 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

I think it’s just a different view and philosophy on things.

There are teams out there much more clearly out of the picture (Buffalo and Arizona) that haven’t made moves yet. In fact no one has really gone into “sell” mold. Dorion in Ottawa spoke about being able to still make it, and they are a mess. So it can’t be a knock on Kenny if it’s not a knock on those GMs, too.

Being fearful of injury is not the way to GM. It’s the same type of hokey pokey that makes KH not want to go into a full rebuild.

If Green had been traded months ago, who is to say the return would have been more or less now that (potentially) we can exploit huge holes that the Leafs, Lightning, and Rangers have (plus rosters expanding)?


Just an opinion, not trying to say anyone is right or wrong.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/25/18 at 03:59 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Also, I am not sure of the whole process in asking for a player’s list of teams.

I can remember situations where teams ask for the list first, and then I go back to Fil last year who did not waive his NTC after (I am pretty sure on this) Toronto and TB had a trade in place.

If Yzerman had asked Fil for his list first, then we don’t have the drama of “ohh Fil vetoed a trade to Toronto, it’s because of Babcock, ooooooo”

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/25/18 at 04:06 PM ET

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I don’t see any reason why Holland would’ve brought up a trade to Green at this point.

They both know he’s on an expiring contract and they both know he’s not going to be a Wing at the end of the regular season, so unless there is a concrete trade offer on the table (and it’s a month before the deadline so I’m pretty sure we all understand that there isn’t a concrete trade offer on the table) what would be the point of bringing it up now?

If I’m the GM trying to trade him I’d much rather talk to all the teams to get a sense of who is interested and then go to Green, rather than talking to him beforehand and potentially have him say “I’ll only go to Tampa or Vegas” and then you’re seriously hampered in your negotiations.

Trades are already hard, why make them harder?

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/25/18 at 04:16 PM ET

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If Green had been traded months ago, who is to say the return would have been more or less now

It’s true. I already asked this question to FS in particular in the past. Let’s say KH had an offer o the table for Green a month ago for a second rounder? Do you do it or you wait and see if you can get better return with the risk you will get worse return? And honestly I do not think there is the right answer to this, it’s game, you win some and you lose some.

Posted by VPalmer on 01/25/18 at 04:23 PM ET

Primis's avatar

The Score is reporting that Custance has been told that Ken Holland has notified teams leaguewide DET is “ready to sell”.

I think that speaks for itself as to Mike Green’s availability.

Posted by Primis on 01/25/18 at 04:25 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by Primis on 01/25/18 at 03:25 PM ET

Thank you!

——————-

And honestly I do not think there is the right answer to this, it’s game, you win some and you lose some.

Posted by VPalmer on 01/25/18 at 03:23 PM ET


QFT

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/25/18 at 04:32 PM ET

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The Score is reporting that Custance has been told that Ken Holland has notified teams leaguewide DET is “ready to sell”.

I read this article also. It stated that the NHL source said that the Wings are willing to put anyone on the table except Larkin, Mantha, and AA. They also said that the Wings are willing to trade Howard, which surprised me. So to those here, including Howe and Murray, to whom I said I did not think the team would be looking to trade Howard, I was wrong.

Posted by Ilovekermit on 01/25/18 at 04:32 PM ET

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I should clarify, I read the Custance article, not the Score article.

Posted by Ilovekermit on 01/25/18 at 04:33 PM ET

Primis's avatar

I read this article also. It stated that the NHL source said that the Wings are willing to put anyone on the table except Larkin, Mantha, and AA. They also said that the Wings are willing to trade Howard, which surprised me. So to those here, including Howe and Murray, to whom I said I did not think the team would be looking to trade Howard, I was wrong.

Posted by Ilovekermit on 01/25/18 at 03:32 PM ET

Surprising.  Though I’d put AA on the table too at this point and see if someone will overpay.  Larkin and Mantha are far more important for the future core IMHO.

I also prefer keeping Howard over Mrazek I think, and also think Mrazek’s return could be better, but hey if the deal’s there… bye Jimmy.

I ALSO STILL want to say this I guess:  I like Green, I’ve enjoyed him being a Red Wing, I wish DET ever could have gotten him a decent partner, and in a different universe I’d like to keep him (one of the few Wings d-men I give a crap about even).  But despite all that, he’s a huge asset/chip, and DET needs future returns more than him.  D-men are always coveted.  He’s gotta’ go if there’s a good enough deal on the table.

We’re looking at this like DET’s going to trade 5 or 6 guys though… when the reality, knowing Kenny, is he maybe trades only one or two.  If that,

Posted by Primis on 01/25/18 at 04:44 PM ET

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OPEN FOR BUSINESS, EVERYTHING MUST GO!!


As for the KH/Green not having a talk - as others have mentioned I expect that they HAVE had plenty of conversations and are actively looking for his landing spot. It would be beyond negligent to know he has a NTC and waste your time trying to make a deal in a market he isn’t interested in. Green has the power in this situation, if you try moving him somewhere he wants to go you could end up walking away with nothing at the end of the year

Posted by MZ2215 on 01/25/18 at 04:45 PM ET

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Does anyone around here work in finance and understand arbitrage? If you have a firm offer for Green of say a 2nd+3rd, you can either:

1) Take it and run
2) Wait and see what else transpires

If you choose option 2, then what are the probabilities of the following:

1) You have a better offer in 4 weeks
2) You have the same kind of offer in 4 weeks
3) You have no offers (ie he’s concussed and finished for the year)

Maybe there is a 30% chance of a better offer. Instead of a 2nd + 3rd, it’s a 2nd + 2nd, or maybe even a late 1st. Yup that might happen. Let’s give that a 30% probability.

And maybe there is a 60% probability that the offers are the same a month from now. Nothing has changed. The cap hit is a little lower, but presumably we’re eating salary so it’s not a big factor. The standings are still similar. Maybe 1 or 2 more teams are interested, while 1 or 2 other teams move on and find other d-men to add

And then maybe there is a 10% chance he gets injured and you receive nothing.

So even thought there may be a greater chance of getting a better offer, than there is of him getting injured, the potential reward for this possibility is relatively small, whereas the potential loss from an injury is pretty devastating. It’s the same logic why some teams have scratched their trade deadline rental in the final 1-2 games just to make sure they don’t get injured.

But I’m sure Kenny has thought of all of this…

Posted by fatsavage on 01/25/18 at 04:47 PM ET

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Posted by fatsavage on 01/25/18 at 03:47 PM ET

Thanks for clarifying that there is such thing as risk.

I’m sure KH haven’t thought of any of it, he’s only been doing this for a couple decades.

Posted by George0211 on 01/25/18 at 05:14 PM ET

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Maybe
Yup that might happen.
Let’s give that a….probability.
And maybe
presumably
And then maybe
even thought there may be
the potential
possibility is relatively

If you have a firm offer for Green of say a 2nd+3rd, you can either:

I take option 3.

wait for a few offers, make counter offers based on the best offer, then take the best one.

I bet a few other people here may have other ideas because there certainly is more than just two options.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 01/25/18 at 05:15 PM ET

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Posted by George0211 on 01/25/18 at 04:14 PM ET

Even though you just killed it, there will be a response…..wait for it….

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 01/25/18 at 05:15 PM ET

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There are teams out there much more clearly out of the picture (Buffalo and Arizona) that haven’t made moves yet

Didn’t you hear, Karlsson was traded back in November when he could fetch a higher return because demand was low.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 01/25/18 at 05:18 PM ET

PierreC's avatar

i hope the teams looking for help in the playoffs won’t remember that Green in his last season in Washington was frequently scratched in the playoffs..

Certainly not a first rounder, even without a strong draft.

If we have a 2nd and a 3rd i’d be very happy.

Posted by PierreC from Montreal, Canada on 01/25/18 at 05:23 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

Well…that does it for 17/18 then. 

I’d get rid of:
-At least one goalie.  Either one.
-Nyquist
-Green
-AA (he should fetch a solid return, and I am afraid he will fizzle like Nyq)
-Abby/Helm, but we know no one will take them
-Glendenning
-Nielsen
-Daley

Not to say I don’t like any of them…there’s really no justification for any of them anymore (except AA).  They’ll all be on other teams by the time we’re a contender again.

Posted by TreKronor on 01/25/18 at 05:25 PM ET

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Anyone and everyone should be up for grabs, even Mantha and AA if they can bring a top-pair young D, but that’s a pipe dream.

Posted by George0211 on 01/25/18 at 05:27 PM ET

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Why exactly did Holland declare Larkin, Mantha, and AA untouchable. Hasn’t he learned from the past…like when Nyquist and Tatar were untouchable, but we are listening to offers for Pulkinnen and Kindl. You have to give to get. If you want Vatanen, then maybe you need to be willing to part with a Mantha, which was the rumour at the draft. At one point there was rumours of AA for Galchenyuk. As much as I love AA, you have to explore ideas like that. Sounds like Carolina is listening to offers on Noah Hanifin. I’d have no problem offering Mantha or AA and one of our 2nd rounders for him. Because young top 4 d-man that can play another decade are hard to come by. Maybe I can get on board with Larkin since there is nothing else in our system at center. But wingers like Mantha and AA should definitely be fair game. Same with Svech. Would love to take both our 2nds, add Svech, and see if you can get another top 10-15 pick.

Posted by fatsavage on 01/25/18 at 05:34 PM ET

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But despite all that, he’s a huge asset/chip, and DET needs future returns more than him. 

And you can actually sign Green again as a free agent in summer if you want to.

-AA (he should fetch a solid return, and I am afraid he will fizzle like Nyq)

I do not see it, AA has a totally different tool set and you cannot teach speed. Imo his potential is better than Mantha, so I trade him only if a) you get a young top 2 dman in return or b) you have no chance of resigning him and his agent already told KH that AA is gone the minute he can

If we have a 2nd and a 3rd i’d be very happy.

.That’s Smith return. I hope the league thinks better of Green.

If you have a firm offer for Green of say a 2nd+3rd, you can either:

what you would do if you have this offer for Green now?

Posted by VPalmer on 01/25/18 at 06:14 PM ET

TreKronor's avatar

AA has a totally different tool set and you cannot teach speed. Imo his potential is better than Mantha

Two different types of players, agreed, but no one knows what he will become. 

Given his record of questionable work ethic, I’m concerned he’ll get a decent contract and suddenly not be motivated.  Or, I’m concerned he won’t want to be on the team…especially after the hold-out this Fall.

Nyq was expected by many to be the next Zetterberg.  Instead we got the next Filpula.  Sometimes you just don’t know what you’ve got until it’s too late.

Posted by TreKronor on 01/25/18 at 06:22 PM ET

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Nyq was expected by many to be the next Zetterberg. 

Not sure who would have expected that and this year Nyquist is fine imo. I agree AA brings elements of risk with him, but when put in the right situation (i.e. top 6 forward and PP and PK responsibilities), I do not see any issues with his work ethic. As to contract dispute, we also do not know if AA played any role in it or it was all his agent controlling a young guy.

Posted by VPalmer on 01/25/18 at 06:28 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

I’m not sure if the trade deadline is the time to make a huge splash like trading AA/Mantha when there is a lot more flexibility in the summer/at the draft.

Of course, not saying it’s impossible or that it can’t be done.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/25/18 at 06:32 PM ET

Avatar

Does anyone around here work in finance and understand arbitrage? If you have a firm offer for Green of say a 2nd+3rd, you can either:

1) Take it and run
2) Wait and see what else transpires

If you choose option 2, then what are the probabilities of the following:

1) You have a better offer in 4 weeks
2) You have the same kind of offer in 4 weeks
3) You have no offers (ie he’s concussed and finished for the year)

Maybe there is a 30% chance of a better offer. Instead of a 2nd + 3rd, it’s a 2nd + 2nd, or maybe even a late 1st. Yup that might happen. Let’s give that a 30% probability.

And maybe there is a 60% probability that the offers are the same a month from now. Nothing has changed. The cap hit is a little lower, but presumably we’re eating salary so it’s not a big factor. The standings are still similar. Maybe 1 or 2 more teams are interested, while 1 or 2 other teams move on and find other d-men to add

And then maybe there is a 10% chance he gets injured and you receive nothing.

So even thought there may be a greater chance of getting a better offer, than there is of him getting injured, the potential reward for this possibility is relatively small, whereas the potential loss from an injury is pretty devastating. It’s the same logic why some teams have scratched their trade deadline rental in the final 1-2 games just to make sure they don’t get injured.

But I’m sure Kenny has thought of all of this…

This wont further the conversation but arbitrage is not the term your looking for. Its a purely financial concept in essence referring to a risk free trade. Translating it to hockey transactions would amount to say trading a 4th round pick to Vancouver for Vanek with an agreement in place with Toronto to trade Vanek for a 3rd round pick. End result of getting a 3rd round pick for a 4th with no risk.

Sorry for not being at all pertinent to the conversation. Carry on.

Posted by postman on 01/25/18 at 06:35 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by postman on 01/25/18 at 05:35 PM ET

Excellent piece of knowledge. Thank you for your expertise.

Posted by ilovehomers on 01/25/18 at 06:57 PM ET

Steeb's avatar

If I’m the GM trying to trade him I’d much rather talk to all the teams to get a sense of who is interested and then go to Green, rather than talking to him beforehand and potentially have him say “I’ll only go to Tampa or Vegas” and then you’re seriously hampered in your negotiations.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 01/25/18 at 03:16 PM ET

So your idea is to do the work and talk to the, say, 10 teams who might want to trade for Green, find the best deal, and only THEN go to Green and find out (to use your example) he’ll only go to Tampa or Vegas? Seems a lot smarter to go to Green and see what kind of trade he’d accept, and then talk to those teams instead of wasting time with the other 8. Why negotiate anywhere when you don’t know what Green will accept?

I agree with FS that it’s negligent on KH’s part to not have even had that discussion yet.

Of course it’s also possible that this discussion HAS taken place, but they don’t want to disclose it. Which would be dumb, bkz the entire league knows that Green is probably not a Wing on March 1.

Posted by Steeb on 01/25/18 at 07:00 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.