Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Krupa talks about the Wings’ ‘downfall’

The Detroit News's Gregg Krupa penned something of an anthology of the major personnel moves that contributed to the Red Wings' fall from grace from their 2008 season to today. It's a "meaty" read, and it's also a painful one in terms of having to recall how many tremendously skilled players the Wings lost since Jiri Fischer collapsed in 2005 (there's a reason Krupa starts there).

Wings GM Ken Holland admits that the Wings are looking at an uphill climb:

“Certainly a number of players regressed, or had off-years,” Holland said. “While we’re trying to draft and develop and get better long term, our short-term goal is to try to make the team as good as it can be and hope that that team can qualify for the playoffs.”

Plainly, the next Stanley Cup contender in Detroit is some seasons down the road.

“We’re not going from here to there in two or three months,” Holland said. “We’ve got to work our way slowly up the ladder.”

Krupa continues at extended length, and his work is worth your time.

Filed in: | The Malik Report | Permalink
 

Comments

Avatar

I’m sorry, but the Fischer thing is pretty pathetic.  That happened seven seasons before Lidstrom retired.

Seven.

You don’t get look back seven years and say “Well, I would have a Plan B for Lidstrom retiring, but seven years ago my plan B got disrupted and I just kind of ignored it that whole time, and now my hands are tied.”

Well, you wouldn’t in any other media market.  In Detroit, that apparently passes as a good excuse.

Otherwise, this read is pretty clear.  Holland has made terrible decision after terrible decision since 2009, which is 8 years of sucking in his job.  He still apparently has lifetime tenure with zero accountability.

Posted by captaineclectic on 04/17/17 at 06:11 AM ET

Avatar

I still believe this team is a qualifier for the playoffs, hate to say it Jeff, but under your influence, we almost missed the playoffs your first year,  now that your “process” has taken full effect we’ve out of contention virtually all year.  Your ineptness, Datsyuk could see this right away, and I believe he made plans immediately so he could leave the next year even costing himself 7.5 million. that tells me he had no faith in your abilities. Look at your players stats, everyone and the team looks terrible. You were coach in GR, how is it you couldn’t see Jensen’s talent, he’s wasting away at 26, why? Your whole game strategy is flawed, not one facet of the game is stellar, and if it wasn’t for Z, Tartar, Nielsen ,Vanek, Green,(their experience), AA, Mantha, Larkin,(raw abilities), you would have been out long ago. You’ve done so poorly, there is no way we can honestly evaluate the players on this team. Hint Jeff, the above players plus Jensen, XO, Nosek, Svechnikov definitely should be on team next year.

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/17/17 at 09:38 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/17/17 at 09:38 AM ET

Let’s not paint the Magic Man as some heroic sacrificial lamb eh? Pavel left because he himself was inept at playing the game at the elite level, and wanted to play against lesser competition in his home country.  Datsyuk was also rumored to be one of the malcontents under Babcock, and he left for equal money in his pocket after taxes US compared to tax free in Russia.

Svechnikov should be on the team when he’s ready, and he’s not ready to be on the team in a top 6 role, his skating needs serious work.  Playing mostly in GR with 5-20 games of callup next year and sticking if he sticks is the way to go. Dumping a kid whose not ready for the NHL on a bad roster because we’re youth thirsty is not.

Overall though, agreed Blashill did a terrible job in ‘16/17.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/17/17 at 09:47 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Pavel left because he himself was inept at playing the game at the elite level, and wanted to play against lesser competition in his home country. 

It’s nice of you to present that as fact.

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/17/17 at 10:02 AM ET

Avatar

Honestly, I do agree about Pavel, Murray, and I know about the cadaver tendons used to rebuild his ankles, don’t understand the contract. he had alluded to wanting to go home before, did the wings think that a contract would hold him.

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/17/17 at 10:24 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/17/17 at 10:24 AM ET

Pavel demanded a 5 year contract, Holland worked him down to a 3 year deal, and i credit to him for doing so, because he likely walks without return compensation to the wings if he did.  If a guy is asking for 5 you’d think he’d honor the 3 he signed.

Of course those that love him unconditionally will say that he didn’t know anything about that, just like us, we ignore salary and just love the work we do HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/17/17 at 10:42 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/17/17 at 10:02 AM ET

Fact:  Pavel’s game was declining in the NHL, stats prove that to be true, both age and injury and they systematic defensive systems worked against him.

Fact: The KHL is a lesser talented league than the NHL.

Aside from that, nobody is presenting a case with DNA and video film here in the TMR comments.

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/17/17 at 10:45 AM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Not sure what other reason then that Pavs had to fire his agent, but Pavel was dumb to sign a deal and not fully understand it.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Hey Hey Hockeyfart on 04/17/17 at 10:45 AM ET

Fact:  Pavel’s game was declining in the NHL, stats prove that to be true, both age and injury and they systematic defensive systems worked against him.

Fact: The KHL is a lesser talented league than the NHL.

These are facts.

Your previous comment, stating he left because of those reasons:

Pavel left because…

is mired in speculation and not fact.

Nice try on shifting the goal posts, MC.

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/17/17 at 11:04 AM ET

Avatar

Pavel aside Blashill isn’t getting it done.

Posted by Ventr on 04/17/17 at 11:08 AM ET

Avatar

Murray, I didn’t remember the contract particulars but I remember Datsyuk saying he wouldn’t have signed it if he couldn’t leave. Had to be about sticking the team with his salary. Knowing Pavel’s intentions I can see this was probably another case of an agent looking out for someone’s best interest.

Posted by stateofmifan on 04/17/17 at 11:09 AM ET

Avatar

Fact:  Pavel’s game was declining in the NHL, stats prove that to be true

His career points total show him increasing the first few years, then having four straight years scoring more than a point per game, then one year below a point per game, then five straight years being a point per game player again and one year below that.

That’s hardly indicative of a decline.  You have nothing to back up any assertion that 2015-16 was anything but an aberration.

Posted by CharDeeMacDennis on 04/17/17 at 11:17 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

I stand correct, very insightful, you guys proved me wrong.

a) Players should not be held accountable for signing multi-million dollar multi-year deals. They are hockey players and should not be bothered with numbers and things like commitment.  Case in point, I just had my tax returns done this weekend, I played on my phone and signed whatever was put in front of me, or I absolutely didn’t, but again I’m not a hockey player that fans cheer for.

b) Pavel’s last year was on the upswing, a surging force to be reckon with, not an aging injured player in decline.  He had both his lowest point and goal per game output since his 1st two seasons in the league, but he was a force to be reckon with none the less.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/17/17 at 11:56 AM ET

Avatar

Krupa didn’t even cover the full list of bad signings, reflecting seemingly poor pro scouting/talent evaluation and judgement at the top. I guess there’s only so much space in an article like that.

He mentioned wildly overpaying for Quincey with a #1 - that’s an important one.

And he mentioned that the Ian White signing didn’t work out (other than initially when White got to play with Lidstrom).

But there’s a long list that makes one wonder who was watching and scouting these players and who seriously thought a) that spackling in often even mediocre complementary types would still work, as it did when the team was stacked and just needed some spackle; and b) that these particular players would be effective and a good fit and value for the Wings in general.

One pattern which should be no surprise to anyone who’s followed Holland’s MO over the years is to keep going back to familiar players, because in earlier seasons and on higher quality Wings teams, they had contributed a bit. Oh, and also because they were familiar. Really no other GM seems to do that.

Let’s bring back Samuelsson…let’s bring back Conklin…let’s spend a #1 on Quincey.

Then there was Coliacovo, Tootoo (whom the coach wouldn’t even use)

And maybe other teams were on the cusp of signing Weiss and we just happened to save them from making a colossal error instead of us…but did anyone seriously scout that guy in his most recent injury plagued seasons and actually do due diligence to evaluate his wrist, etc? How was an almost 25M signing able to just hide a serious abdominal/groin injury? It reminds me of Columbus and Nathan Horton - didn’t anyone ask around and realize that, not only was Horton recovering from major shoulder surgery, but, he also had a seriously degenerative back condition? That had to have been an open secret in Boston.

I digress, but the Weiss signing really stings, given that it’s a 2.6 cap hit this coming season.

Posted by Lefty30 on 04/17/17 at 12:05 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

and wanted to play against lesser competition in his home country.

Your guess

Pavel demanded a 5 year contract, Holland worked him down to a 3 year deal, and i credit to him for doing so,

Wrong KH offered 5 yrs and Pavel wanted 3 yrs, publicly stated by KH

Fact: The KHL is a lesser talented league than the NHL.

Thanks for the update that everyone knew, DUH!!

MC Real Facts/Guesses does not baffle Brains, Fact

I going to disagree with everything you are saying and be mostly correct

 

 

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 04/17/17 at 01:02 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

A very good overview of the Wings downfall and most of the big problems.

Good article by Gregg Krupa!!!

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 04/17/17 at 01:10 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Wrong KH offered 5 yrs and Pavel wanted 3 yrs, publicly stated by KH

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 04/17/17 at 01:02 PM ET

No, actually I was right, and you are in fact wrong, not mostly wrong, just wrong.

http://mihockeynow.com/2016/06/red-wings-ken-holland-addresses-the-departure-of-pavel-datsyuk/

Before you get up on the insults, it takes 6 little keystrokes to get to “Google” and then you search a topic, and google provides answers, click a link, and from there it’s called reading, Top to bottom, left to right,  a group of words together is called a sentences, take tylenol for any headaches, midol for any cramps

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/17/17 at 01:18 PM ET

Colin's avatar

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Hey Hey Hockeyfart on 04/17/17 at 11:56 AM ET

In response to A, the team wasn’t in shambles and clearly plummeting and he also didn’t have that ankle surgery when he signed that contract. In fact, when he signed that deal he was coming off of a very productive but brief 37P, 45GP season. I’m sure that at the time of the signing, Pav thought he still had those extra 2 years in him, and he also can’t predict how much the team would stagnate and collapse over the next 2 seasons. Am I a bit miffed that he welched on that contract? Sure. But all things considered I blame Kenny not for signing the deal in the first place, but for not following through by giving Pav the support players he needed. IIRC in his last year he was playing with stone-hands Helm and (Abdelkader, I think?) for much of the season while Hank got Larkin. Kinda shafted, IMO.

Posted by Colin from Ken Holland's new yacht, "Incompetence" on 04/17/17 at 01:40 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Here we go again…

This whole thread started by saying not to paint the Magic Man as some heroic sacrificial lamb, that’s all, that’s it, there’s nothing more to it.

I don’t need the history, and team run down, and why he should or shouldn’t leave.  I’ve said many o’ times that I did not like what Pavel did, he effed this team, he did, not his agent, not Holland, but it is what it is. He also delivered a career of hard work and success to the team too. I don’t hate the guy for it. It like your buddy farting in the car on a blistery winter day, your not happy about it, nobody is, you don’t want to roll down your windows, but your also not going to kick your buddy out of the car and make him walk either.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 04/17/17 at 02:00 PM ET

Avatar

  Before you get up on the insults, it takes 6 little keystrokes to get to “Google” and then you search a topic, and google provides answers, click a link, and from there it’s called reading, Top to bottom, left to right,  a group of words together is called a sentences, take tylenol for any headaches, midol for any cramps

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Hey Hey Hockeyfart on 04/17/17 at 01:18 PM ET


Dammìt MC you can be such an ass sometimes yet at the same time funny as shìt

Posted by benzanato on 04/17/17 at 02:22 PM ET

Avatar

To be clear probably rhe best comment of day

Posted by benzanato on 04/17/17 at 02:23 PM ET

ilovehomers's avatar

Posted by benzanato on 04/17/17 at 02:23 PM ET

I agree with this. I checked it before replying, and then had no reason to counter that point. You cant fact check and get it wrong without seserving a hilarious and stinging retort.

Posted by ilovehomers on 04/17/17 at 02:39 PM ET

Avatar

ughh. this is beginning to remind me oh all the Federov hate. Now everyone loves him.

Posted by howeandhowe from Seattle on 04/17/17 at 03:43 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

b) Pavel’s last year was on the upswing, a surging force to be reckon with, not an aging injured player in decline.  He had both his lowest point and goal per game output since his 1st two seasons in the league, but he was a force to be reckon with none the less.

Pavel had trouble skating with his bum ankle, and yes his skills were declining. In saying that he was still incredibly talented, and I would have loved watched him play one more year. He was one of my favorite Red Wings. sick

Posted by bigfrog on 04/17/17 at 04:37 PM ET

Avatar

You can add Mike Modano as another bad signing and apparently both Holland and Babcock wanted him.

Posted by Mackster from Eastern Canada on 04/17/17 at 06:11 PM ET

Avatar

Datsyuk didn’t “eff” the team for the simple reason that to the extent the team was ever relying on a 38-year old to be its best forward this season, it was poorly constructed in the first place.

(Hint:  it was poorly constructed in the first place.)

Posted by captaineclectic on 04/17/17 at 07:31 PM ET

Add a Comment

Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.

Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.

Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.

Smileys

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Feed

Most Recent Blog Posts

About The Malik Report

The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.