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The Malik Report

Khan: Rick Nash won’t come to the Red Wings because Columbus can’t stomach the thought

Via RedWingsFeed, I believe this counts as a mid-July blockbuster:

According to MLive’s Ansar Khan, the Red Wings did their very best to attempt to acquire: the superstar forward, but the Columbus Blue Jackets simply wouldn’t do business with their self-proclaimed arch-rival:

The Red Wings made “a hell of an offer’’ to Columbus for Nash, according to a person with knowledge of the situation. But the offer generated no conversation. No counteroffer, no back and forth negotiation, nothing.

It is clear Columbus has no intention of trading the face of its franchise to the team it considers to be its top rival, a Detroit club that has dominated the Blue Jackets since they entered the NHL in 2000-01. The last thing Columbus general manager Scott Howson wants to see is Nash being paired with Pavel Datsyuk and his Blue Jackets having to deal with that scenario six times a season.

Khan attempts to offer an educated guess as to what the Wings may have dangled in front of Columbus given Scott Howson’s desire for NHL-ready forwards…

[Johan] Franzen has been wildly inconsistent since the midway point of the 2010-11 season. He has a tendency to score goals in bunches and then experience long droughts. But, he has averaged nearly 30 goals the past four seasons (excluding 2009-10, when a knee injury limited him to 27 games) and has a modest salary-cap hit of $3.95 million, though he does have eight years and $27.75 million remaining on the deal.

As for [Valtteri] Filppula, the Red Wings view the highly skilled winger/center as a key part of their future and would like to lock him up to a long-term contract before he becomes eligible for unrestricted free agency next summer. If Detroit were to offer Filppula in a trade, his value would be limited, unless that team can sign him to a long-term deal. Otherwise, he’d just be a one-year rental.

Again, it’s unclear what Red Wings put on the table for Nash, but if it truly was “a hell of an offer’’ it wasn’t a pair of third-line forwards, a couple of minor leaguers and a mid-round draft pick.

Khan won’t totally rule out the Wings and Columbus revisiting a Nash-to-Detroit scenario later this summer, given Scott Howson’s difficulties in attempting to deal his superstar forward with a more affordable (in terms of compensation and salary) Bobby Ryan on the market, but it’s highly doubtful that the Blue Jackets would ever move a star player to Detroit, and as we all know, this team needs to add a defenseman, even if he’s a band-aid one, and a goal-scorer, not subtract, so I don’t anticipate the Wings making any trades at all until the regular season is underway.

Update: The Macomb Daily’s Chuck Pleiness confirms:

A source with knowledge of the situation said Detroit made “a hell of an offer” to the Blue Jackets for Nash. However, the offer generated zero conversation.

It’s not known what the Wings offered, but reports have said that Columbus general manager Scott Howson is looking for two proven NHL forwards in return.

That’s a pretty steep asking price for any team, including the Wings, who would more than likely have to part with proven talent like Johan Franzen or Valtteri Filppula and perhaps even throw in an up-and-coming star like Darren Helm or Gustav Nyquist.

Howson is willing to holdout until he gets what he’s looking for in return.

It seems unlikely that Howson would want to deal Nash, who will make $7.8 million in each of the next six seasons, to a Central Division rival like Detroit and be stuck seeing the face of the Blue Jackets’ franchise so often during the regular season.

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Comments

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I hope that this means Ken Holland would at least entertain some type of package for Bobby Ryan.

Posted by godblender on 07/18/12 at 01:58 AM ET

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I’m beyond lost why Holland isn’t going after Ryan, he is much less of a cost to trade for brings a better willingness to wings plays hard and goes to the next, once again at half the price of Nash. And heck he might bring his buddy getzs here in the off-season. Nash isn’t even the person I want the most off of cbus, can I get a asking price for jack johnson how doesn’t want to play there anyway ?

Posted by toM from detroit on 07/18/12 at 03:21 AM ET

Lucce's avatar

Rick Nash, why did you sign a multi year full loaded with a team you are not interested in playing with anymore?

Posted by Lucce from Kingdom of Zweden on 07/18/12 at 03:22 AM ET

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Betcha 5 bucks the BJ’s have a new GM this time next year.

Posted by Pondrockit from Howell, MI on 07/18/12 at 03:31 AM ET

perfection's avatar

Posted by toM from detroit on 07/18/12 at 01:21 AM ET

how are you so sure he’s not “going after” him? I’m sure there are over a dozen teams “going after” him. Anaheim and Columbus want the best possible package in return. They are both holding out. I can almost guarantee Holland at least called to scope out the status. Perhaps discussed some possibilities… but same with most every other GM in the league. These are superstars we’re talking about, GM’s wouldn’t be doing their jobs if they did’t at least try to “go after” them. All but one fails and you don’t always find out about it.

It seems a lot of people think that as long as the team is willing to give away what THEY think is fair, than some random opposing team has to accept it. And if the trade hasn’t happened, the team clearly hasn’t made an offer. It’s silly.

Posted by perfection from LaLaLand on 07/18/12 at 03:34 AM ET

John's avatar

Betcha 5 bucks the BJ’s have a new GM this time next year.

Yup.  I bet Howson gets canned before Christmas.  I think his job is resting on orchestrating a heck of a trade for Nash, and if it doesn’t work out he’s gone.  And its not going to work out… so he’s gone.

Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 07/18/12 at 03:48 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Rick Nash, why did you sign a multi year full loaded with a team you are not interested in playing with anymore?

         
              Posted by
              Lucce
             
              from Kingdom of Zweden on
              07/18/12 at 01:22 AM ET

Because Howson asked him to waive his NTC and supply a list of teams… after telling the local press that the Nash camp asked him.

Howson is backing himself into a corner by being so unreasonable.  He’s probably banking the fact there’ll be a partial season this season and think he’s got extra time to deal him and is holding out.  It’ll bite him in the ass once it gets close to the start of the season and teams start lowballing him KNOWINIG that he asked Nash to leave, you can’t realistically expect him to come back and it NOT fuch up the dynamic, which looked like it was actually starting to come together by the end of last season after the Johnson trade.  Howson will prove, yet again, why he’s the worst GM in hockey before the summer’s over.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/18/12 at 03:56 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Bubbles on HNIC.. for shits and giggles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrB_XCpWtO8&feature=related

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/18/12 at 04:15 AM ET

Hippy Dave's avatar

I just don’t understand why people think Nash is so valuable.  Barring a few exceptions, he’s a streaky 30 goal a year guy with commitment issues, and is not a playmaker.  Franzen puts up comparable numbers for half the price.  It just doesn’t make sense.

I’m also confused why the Wings consider Filppula to be such a key guy.  Granted, he had a great year this year with >60p, but he’s physically invisible come playoff time.  I’ve admired his work ethic but he is definite trade bait for the Phoenixes and Anaheims out there who could use a skilled center.

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 07/18/12 at 04:50 AM ET

Hippy Dave's avatar

... not to mention Nash shoots left, Ryan shoots right.

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 07/18/12 at 04:52 AM ET

Lucce's avatar

I really would love to get Nash in the winged wheel jersey. He would easily score 40+ goal for us every season, together with Z or Pav.

Same with Bobby Ryan, who would we send in return?

They will not come for first round picks….

Posted by Lucce from Kingdom of Zweden on 07/18/12 at 05:06 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Posted by
              Hippy Dave
             
              from Portland by way of Detroit on
              07/18/12 at 02:52 AM ET[/i

Nash plays in all situations, PK included.  I’d also be willing to bet if you look at how many games each player tallied in, Nash would probably lead significantly.  This is just eyeballing but Nash is MUCH more consistent that Donk I’d be willing to bet.  5 of Franzen’s 29 came in one night.. and he went ice cold to ride out the season after that.  That was like, Feb 2nd or some shit, against Ottawa… i think.. But again, he’s got a more well rounded game and he doesn’t float.  Might not play as physical as he can most of the time, but he doesn’t float and he’s strong on the puck.  Hands are slicker than Mules, all day.  Mule’s got a better shot/release I think but Nash can do more with the puck. 

100% agree about the R vs. L shooter though.  Especially with great playmakers like we have, I would rather have a R handed trigger man.  You know the Wings hate scoring dirty goals.  it’d give them some opportunity to use their creativity and get some “joy” back in the game.  Have a R handed allows a lot better set-up’s, easier to position and attack with speed that way.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/18/12 at 05:21 AM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Oh and about Flip Davers, I’m guessing that Holland is looking at him and seeing Datsyuk circa ‘06..  Especially after this past season with over a 50% increase in production with a move to wing.  Not aggressive enough as center.  06 KH almost traded Pav for Scott Gomez.. they both posted simliar numbers but Gomez produced in the playoffs and Pav didn’t really.  Didn’t pull the trigger and next year he starts to REALLY step up.  They probably see a lot of Pav in Fil and think it’s just a matter of confidence and responsibility before he starts putting up points to match his skill level.  Just my estimation.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/18/12 at 05:30 AM ET

Alan's avatar

If Howson isn’t going to entertain good offers, he’s not going to get anything. Thus, he’ll be stuck with Nash for another year. So be it, if that’s his prerogative.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/18/12 at 06:24 AM ET

Lucce's avatar

The most interesting thing is that Howson sees Detroit as their biggest rival. I see them as a team that will be sold and shipped of somewhere else.

Posted by Lucce from Kingdom of Zweden on 07/18/12 at 07:02 AM ET

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I’m also confused why the Wings consider Filppula to be such a key guy.

Because they’re delusional.  Just like they’re preparing to do with Abdelkader, if they re-sign Filppula they’re going to way overpay for someone who doesn’t have a real place.  Yeah, he put up good numbers in the regular season but he vanished in the playoffs and he should be playing centre, not wing, but he won’t because he’s too good to be the third line centre but not good enough to usurp Zetterberg or Datsyuk in the top six.

For a team that knows what it’s looking for *cough*Anaheim*cough* he could be tremendously valuable.

And anyone who think that the Wings were ever, ever going to land Nash from Columbus is out of his/her mind.  Howson is asking for the moon in general, so if Detroit wanted to even get a response they would have to offer the sun and the stars as well.

Not to mention that Detroit has a dearth of top-six forwards, so why would it help them to offer two of the ones they have for one in return?  It would still leave them with at least one hole in the top six.

Don’t make no sense!

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 09:04 AM ET

John's avatar

The most interesting thing is that Howson sees Detroit as their biggest rival. I see them as a team that will be sold and shipped of somewhere else.

Agree.  Bettman wants teams in all of the top ten media markets, and right now Atlanta and Houston aren’t in the mix for the NHL.  Columbus is the 20th largest market in the NHL.  Do the math on that one, especially with teams in Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Nashville all hanging right around it.

Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 07/18/12 at 09:11 AM ET

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Why is anyone surprised that Howson sees Detroit as a rival?  Why did anyone think there was any chance that Howson would deal Nash to a team in the Central?

Even a GM as awful as Howson knows that you don’t trade your franchise player to someone in your division.

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 09:25 AM ET

Paul's avatar

All Nash has to do is turn down every trade until Howson says to him, how about Detroit?

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 07/18/12 at 09:37 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Yeah, he put up good numbers in the regular season but he vanished in the playoffs and he should be playing centre, not wing

The whole team vanished in the playoffs, but 2 points in the 5 games Detroit played was good enough to tie for 3rd on the team (with a bunch of guys, including Kyle Quincey).

Filppula’s career playoff output is higher than his regular season points pace.

But why should he be playing center instead of wing? It’s much easier to convert a center to a winger and then back again than it is to wait for a winger (Jamie Benn, Patrick Kane) to get used to playing center.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/18/12 at 10:10 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Me thinks Flip is being dangled in front of a couple teams and that’s why he’s being touted as “an extremely important cog” and the next best thing. I’ve even read that he’s being groomed as the next captain…. Hahahaha…. give me a break. Okay, I like Flip and think he’s a good two way forward but he wouldn’t shoot while playing center and that drove Babs bonkers and he got easily shoved around playing wing during the playoffs; he’s movable. Hell, I never thought they’d ever trade Kozlov because he was a playoff beast (think Franzen but EVERY playoff yr) and they moved him. IMO the only untouchables are Dats, Z, Kronwall, Helm and Smith. Everybody else is fair game.

p.s. I would much, much, much rather have Ryan than Nash.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 07/18/12 at 10:28 AM ET

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But why should he be playing center instead of wing? It’s much easier to convert a center to a winger and then back again than it is to wait for a winger (Jamie Benn, Patrick Kane) to get used to playing center.

I’m not saying they should be trying to have a winger play centre I’m saying they should try to use one of their more tradeable assets who isn’t playing his natural position in order to try to land someone who would be at his natural position playing the Wing.  If a centre like Zetterberg can get a career year out of Filppula and a good bounce back year out of Jiri Hudler then imagine what he can do with an elite scorer on his wing instead of someone who should be a #2 centre and someone whose abilities probably shouldn’t put him on a top-two line.

Or maybe you put that elite scoring winger on Datsyuk’s line and see what Zetterberg can get out of Franzen.

Signing Samuelsson and Tootoo hasn’t addressed the Wings need for a scorer, and Shane Doan wouldn’t address that either.  If Detroit wants to address it then it will take roster players, prospects and/or picks to do it.  Filppula is one of the best assets they have and the fact that he’s not playing his natural position, as well as the fact that he could be a #2 centre on most teams that don’t have the likes of Dastyuk and Zetterberg, would make him attractive to a lot of teams.

I disagree with Khan saying that Filppula’s trade value is limited, it’s only limited when discussing Nash, because in order for Howson to trade Nash to a division rival (no matter what fans think, of course Columbus sees Detroit as a rival), Detroit would have to start with Zetterberg or Datsyuk as a piece of the puzzle and work from there.

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 10:46 AM ET

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Me thinks Flip is being dangled in front of a couple teams and that’s why he’s being touted as “an extremely important cog” and the next best thing.

You’re probably right.

p.s. I would much, much, much rather have Ryan than Nash.

Yes please.

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 10:47 AM ET

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flip is good and i wouldn’t get rid of him. to single him out and bitch about his playoff performance is unfair. the whole team stunk. at least it looks like he is trying out there (unlike Franzen who seemed to coast every where and turn away from all physicality).  I also agree with the comment that its easier for a center to be converted to wing and also agree he should stay on the wing. We have so many good centers coming up (Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheehan, Ferraro) that he almost HAS to be moved to wing…or these others will need to be converted to wingers.

As an aside, I wouldnt mind seeing Franzen as part of a package and going out to ANA with Ryan coming the other way.

Posted by callmedrw on 07/18/12 at 10:53 AM ET

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We have so many good centers coming up (Nyqvist, Tatar, Sheehan, Ferraro) that he almost HAS to be moved to wing

That’s a reason to trade a natural centre for a scoring winger.

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 10:55 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Yeah, I’d trade Flip for either Nash or Ryan. If the wings signed Semin, I might even package him for a D-man, but I don’t think he’s overrated by fans

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/18/12 at 11:06 AM ET

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If a centre like Zetterberg can get a career year out of Filppula and a good bounce back year out of Jiri Hudler

Why do you think that was the direction things went?  IMO Zetterberg needs guys like Fil (defensively) and Hudler (offensively) on his line in order to do anything much anymore… and even with them he’s been on a fairly consistent decline for 3-4 seasons now.

The days when Z carried lines are long gone.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 07/18/12 at 11:22 AM ET

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The days when Z carried lines are long gone.

Except for last year, when one of his wingers had a bounce back year and the other had a career year.

To say that he’s in decline because his role has changed isn’t fair to him.

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 11:26 AM ET

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1) Firstly, as my blog has noted, Nash HATES Scott Howson.  http://newfaux.blogspot.com/2012/07/nash-getting-last-laugh.html

2) Secondly, Howson better reduce his asking price if he’s serious on trading Nash.  As some have written here, Nash is NOT al that great to risk not only the salary cap room he’ll fill, but to give up multiple top assets to attain him.

3) The CBA issues may be hindering his movement. I think once the smoke clears he’s a NY Ranger

Posted by Fauxrumors on 07/18/12 at 11:28 AM ET

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I just don’t understand why people think Nash is so valuable.  Barring a few exceptions, he’s a streaky 30 goal a year guy with commitment issues, and is not a playmaker.  Franzen puts up comparable numbers for half the price.  It just doesn’t make sense.

Nash plays his size, is healthier, and a proven scorer. Franzén’s “good moments” seem like a fluke more than the norm, these days.

Also, rember the hundred times you yelled “Franzén, shoot!”? The Mule topped at 250 shots in a season, Nash never had less than this.

Yeah, he put up good numbers in the regular season but he vanished in the playoffs and he should be playing centre, not wing, but he won’t because he’s too good to be the third line centre but not good enough to usurp Zetterberg or Datsyuk in the top six.

Because he wasn’t as good a center as he was a wing? Last season (or next to last, I don’t know), whenever Babcock tried to play a first line with both Datsyuk and Zetterberg, the second line disappeared, centered by Filppula.

Posted by Herm from the office on 07/18/12 at 11:31 AM ET

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Because he wasn’t as good a center as he was a wing? Last season (or next to last, I don’t know), whenever Babcock tried to play a first line with both Datsyuk and Zetterberg, the second line disappeared, centered by Filppula.

All the more reason to use him as trade bait.

He’s Jordan Staal.  Too good to be the third line centre and not good enough to be the second line centre on this team, but he’s good enough to trade for something Detroit needs, and on some other team he can get the chance to be a second line centre and he can pass or fail on that team instead of on Detroit while potentially helping to net Detroit the scoring winger they need and that they’ve acknowledged they need but have done little to actually obtain.

Secondly, Howson better reduce his asking price if he’s serious on trading Nash.

He can reduce his price all you want but he’s not going to be traded to Detroit (or Chicago, Nashville or St Louis).

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 11:55 AM ET

42jeff's avatar

He can reduce his price all you want but he’s not going to be traded to Detroit (or Chicago, Nashville or St Louis).
Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 09:55 AM ET

Not directly.  KH already suckered the Avs (not hard though, I know) using TB as the go between.

What are the odds he’s working a three way somewhere else?

Posted by 42jeff from The greater Howard City, MI metroplex on 07/18/12 at 12:02 PM ET

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What are the odds he’s working a three way somewhere else?

I guess anything is possible, but nobody’s going to give up what Howson wants for Nash and then flip him to Detroit without demanding more than they gave up.

Meanwhile, Bobby Ryan…

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 12:09 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Just to weigh in on the Nash vs Franzen discussion:  I’ll take a guy with comparable numbers to Franzen who contributes all year long over a guy who shows up for fifteen to twenty games a season.  I’m tired of crossing my fingers and hoping Franzen will get it together for the post season. 

I would also add that Franzen in Detroit is a known quantity, Nash in Detroit isn’t.  Nash could finally live up to expectations in Detroit.  If we can live in a bizarro world in which Nash actually ends up in Detroit for just a moment… I’d say that I like Nash’s potential upswing as a Wing much more than Franzen’s all-too-well-known hot and cold routine.

I think its also worth mentioning that Nash doesn’t have Franzen’s proclivity for getting injured either.  Huge contract or not, I think Nash would be well worth it for the Wings.

As for Flip, I love the guy.  He could have a very big year and I wish there was a way the Wings could keep him out of the trade bait bucket.  But that said, if a Filppula trade can bring home Nash or Ryan, there is no way Holland should hesitate.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/18/12 at 12:17 PM ET

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Except for last year, when one of his wingers had a bounce back year and the other had a career year.

Again, why do you attribute that to Z, and not Z’s performance the other way?  Hudler had a big offensive year because he played more with better general players.  Fil’s year was good, but not wildly better than previous years… he was just healthy throughout it and getting, likewise, more IT on a scoring line instead of spending the whole year on the 3rd unit.

And also, Z was pretty much invisible statistically until February, and both Fil and Hudler were going long, long before that.  Z had 9 goals and 26 assists through 51 games.  Fil had 15 and 25 through 50.  Hudler had 16 and 19 through 50.  Z got hot in February and March and saved his season, but trying to pass off Fil and Hudler’s year a s a function of playing with Z isn’t accurate.  At all.

To say that he’s in decline because his role has changed isn’t fair to him.

I think Z’s role changing is implicit evidence of his decline.  And then, look at his production.  His goals per has gone down pretty much 5 straight years now.  He had an assist bump in 10-11, but other than that it’s also slipped.  And his +/- has slipped.  And his ES goals allowed per minute has gone up.  Pretty much every indicator we have now that tracks performance his been degrading, gradually.

Which, really, is to be expected, right?  He’s going to be 32 shortly after the season starts.  Dude’s getting up there in hockey years and it’s not like he has ever been an ironman.  I highly doubt he’s going to age like a Lidstrom or Yzerman or Chelios did and have highly-effective years at or past 35.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 07/18/12 at 12:27 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

I think Z’s role changing is implicit evidence of his decline.  Posted by HockeyinHD on 07/18/12 at 10:27 AM ET

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ…........
^^^ That’s the sound of me sleeping.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 07/18/12 at 12:40 PM ET

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Z got hot in February and March and saved his season, but trying to pass off Fil and Hudler’s year a s a function of playing with Z isn’t accurate.

So Hudler played better because he played with better players, but he didn’t play better because he played with Zetterberg.

And to reduce what Zetterberg did to simple numbers is just not fair.  His play makes players around him better.

Fil’s year was good, but not wildly better than previous years…he was just healthy throughout it

Really?  26 points better than any previous season isn’t wildly better?  More than 50% better?

He only ever missed significant time once and his production put him on pace for 52 points.

I think Z’s role changing is implicit evidence of his decline.

I disagree.

And then, look at his production.

Yes, it’s been almost identical for three of the past four years.

His goals per has gone down pretty much 5 straight years now.

That’s one way to look at it, except that’s it’s been pretty much identical for the last three years.

And his +/- has slipped.

Or it’s been almost identical for three of the past four years.

Wow, there’s this weird broken record thing happening…

Pretty much every indicator we have now that tracks performance his been degrading, gradually.

Right except, again, that most of his numbers have been holding almost exactly steady for the past three or four years.

Posted by Garth on 07/18/12 at 12:43 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

You know, they have a word for people who reference their blogs in 80% of their comments. It’s called “spammer”.

As for the trade, I honestly don’t know if I’d trade Franzen before Filppula objectively.  Subjectively, sure as shit I would because I frankly like Filppula more than I like Franzen and the eyeball test makes it look like Filppula’s always trying harder.

The trade value difference between them is interesting. Franzen is tied into a very long contract with a very manageable cap hit, but an actual salary that’s going to be above his hit until 2016. Under the current system, for teams who can’t afford to have higher salaries than hits, that makes him less attractive.  Filppula is in the last year of his deal and will be a UFA. You’d assume he’s bound to have another good year based solely on the idiom that players love to play their best in a contract year (regardless of whether it’s true).

In the end, Franzen, Filppula, Helm, and even Zetterberg are not untouchable for me.  Hell, there’s technically not a single member of the Red Wings I wouldn’t trade if it meant a good return.

The realities of these trade talks:

1. Detroit would have to massively overpay to get Nash from Columbus.
2. Holland “pulling a Quincey” to land Nash via a third team isn’t likely. It’s possible, but it all has to go through Howson and Nash has to sign off on it and it all has to go in the right order or a few teams are going to find themselves getting butthumped-with-scissors by the league for collusion.
3. Franzen for Bobby Ryan probably won’t happen because of Anaheim’s financials.  The Ducks do have to make the floor, so they do need to find ways to build up a cap hit (unless they’re waiting to see what the CBA does), but trading Ryan for Franzen saves them $300K in real-spending dollars and gives them one of those contracts where a guy is paid more than his cap hit that financially struggling teams find so distasteful. I guess Anaheim would take that with a glut of good draft picks, but they’re likely to be able to get a better offer that doesn’t involve taking on Johan Franzen.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/18/12 at 12:43 PM ET

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So Hudler played better because he played with better players, but he didn’t play better because he played with Zetterberg.

You attempted to pass off the entirety of Fil and Hudler’s ‘improved’ performance to playing with Z, and with Z alone.  Is there a degree of nuance you’re willing to countenance?

And to reduce what Zetterberg did to simple numbers is just not fair.  His play makes players around him better.

Enh, I don’t find that kind of rhetoric particularly compelling compared to his actual production.  There has to be a rational basis for that kind of declaration, and I haven’t seen one made yet that’s rooted in much logic.

Again, when he is on the ice the opponents have been scoring progressively more per minute for three or four seasons now.  His goalscoring is down.  His assists are down.  His faceoff % has varied, but trended downwards.

If you want to just say ‘but but but he makes everyone around him better’... whatevs, I suppose.  If you look at the numbers I don’t think you’ll see much evidence that’s actually the case.

Really?  26 points better than any previous season isn’t wildly better?  More than 50% better?

He only ever missed significant time once and his production put him on pace for 52 points.

Again, you’re trying to give Z 100% credit for Fil playing a) more at ES than he usually had and b) with better players at ES, particularly offensively, than he usually had.  Z, obviously, was one of those better offensive players, but he’s not the kind of guy who carries that much productive float anymore… as evidenced by him being underwhelming for 3-4 months while Fil and Hudler tore it up offensively.

Yes, it’s been almost identical for three of the past four years.

Or…

2007-8 :  43 goals in 75 games.  .573 goals per game.
2008-9 :  31 goals in 77 games.  .403 goals per game.
2009-10: 23 goals in 74 games.  .311 goals per game.
2010-11: 24 goals in 80 games.  .300 goals per game.
2011-12: 22 goals in 82 games.  .268 goals per game.

That right there is what we tend to call in the biz a ‘trend’.  So, if you’re willing to blind yourself to things like games played and just look at raw goal totals I can see how you’d miss it… but it’s totally there nonetheless.

Right except, again, that most of his numbers have been holding almost exactly steady for the past three or four years.

Except as I’ve just illustrated to you now with goals, and the same thing is true of his assists (with the 10-11 variation) and ES GA/min stats, they aren’t.

At least, when you actually dig just a tiny bit beyond the goals scored line.  I mean, do you really think 23 goals in 74 games is ‘holding almost exactly steady’ compared to 22 in 82?  If you do, maybe you should stop using stats, ever.  Stick with the ‘he just makes everybody around him better’ stuff.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 07/18/12 at 01:57 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Jackets’ owner, J.P. McConnell, should just fire Howson once and for all.  If the Wings let go of Probie to the hated Blackhawks, WTF is this guy’s malfunction???

Posted by SYF from Zata's Epic Viking Beard on 07/18/12 at 02:01 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.