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Khan: Red Wings’ Holland will kick UFA tires on Wednesday; Brunner, Cleary may return; Fil’s gone

Updated 2x at 2:38 PM: As noted in the mid-day entry, the NHL's "wining and dining" period for free agents-to-be gets underway tomorrow at 12 PM and lasts until Friday, and while nobody's sure how it will play out, Wings GM Ken Holland told MLive's Ansar Khan that he will take part in the process:

Detroit Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said he plans to reach out to about a half-dozen forwards.

“I'll express interest, see what they're thinking,'' Holland said.

Khan lists a slate of forwards who the Wings might target but he's reporting that today's scuttlebutt suggests that David Clarkson's somehow going to get more than $5 million per season on the open market, and nathan Horton wants $6 million, which takes any sane team out of the running for either. The news isn't good regarding Lecavalier, either:

His biggest need is a second-line center, since it appears Valtteri Filppula won't return. The Red Wings have interest in Florida's Stephen Weiss. Other centers scheduled to hit the market include Mike Ribeiro (Washington), Matt Cullen (Minnesota), Derek Roy (Vancouver) and Tyler Bozak (Toronto). Patrik Elias reportedly is close to re-signing with New Jersey.

The Red Wings are out of the bidding for Vincent Lecavalier, who is seeking a five-year deal for $5 million per season, which is a longer term and more money than Detroit is willing to offer. Lecavalier's agent told teams he has identified a club he wants to play for. It's believed to be Dallas.

...

The Red Wings have some interest in right wing Jarome Iginla, the longtime face of the franchise in Calgary who was traded to Pittsburgh late last season. But, there are concerns about whether Iginla, who is 36, can play an up-tempo game at both ends of the ice.

You may take these Tweets for what you will:

As for the Wings' other moves, Khan reports that:

1. Not surprisingly, the Wings may not buy out anyone (Samuelsson, Colaiacovo, Bertuzzi) until at or around Thursday's 5 PM buyout deadline;

2. And the Wings are still trying to re-sign Daniel Cleary and Damien Brunner, who essentially get to "test the market" for free tomorrow:

Term, not money, is the sticking point with Cleary, who is 34. The Red Wings likely don't want to commit to more than two years.

The big issue with Brunner is his lack of a track record in the NHL. He'll probably listen to what other teams have to offer on Wednesday and Thursday and then come back to the Red Wings to see if they'll up their offer.

And, not surprisingly, Holland's been told that Filppula is highly unlikely to return:

“There's a significant difference,'' Holland said. “That's why it doesn't appear we're positioned to do a deal. It makes good sense for Fil and his agent to hit July 3 and see what's out there. I'll stay in contact with Fil's agent. When players hit the open market they're probably moving on. Players usually get offers that are better because so many teams are in play.''

Update #0.5: You may take this quip from Predators GM David Poile to the Tennessean's Josh Cooper, again, for what you will:

Poile said he had spoken with pending unrestricted free agent Vincent Lecavalier, who was recently bought out by the Tampa Bay Lightning. The 33-year-old Lecavalier, a former 52-goal scorer, preferred to stay on the East Coast, according to Poile.

“We’re going to follow it up again, because we think it could be a fit, but that’s what he and his people have said,” Poile said.

Update #1: We are officially in, "Who the *#$%@& knows" territory:

Update #2: The Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness confirms Filppula's status...

“He’s looking forward to July 5,” Wings general manager Ken Holland said in a phone interview. “There’s a significant difference. That’s why it doesn’t appear we’re positioned to do a deal.”

...

“It makes good sense for Fil and his agent to hit July 3 and see what’s out there,” Holland said. “I’ll stay in contact with his agent. If it’s time to leave, it’s time to leave.”

...

“When players hit the open market they’re probably moving on,” Holland admitted. “Players usually get offers that are better because so many teams are in play. This year is different because of the reduced cap.”

And in terms of tire-kicking and free agent-retaining:

Holland will continue to talk with Daniel Cleary and Damien Brunner, the Wings’ other two unrestricted free agents, to try and work out deals.

There seem to be sticking points with both of them.

With Cleary it’s not money, but length of a deal, while Brunner seems to be more about money. Cleary is 34 and Detroit will more than likely not want a deal of more than two years.

Brunner had his ups and downs in his first year in the league, so it’s hard to set the bar on his value.

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Comments

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MOWingsfan19's avatar

Bye bye Fil.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 07/02/13 at 12:32 PM ET

Mandingo's avatar

Dallas: The Jewel of the East Coast

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/02/13 at 12:32 PM ET

Mandingo's avatar

Completely dumbfounded by the Filppula thing. Looks like I was wrong again.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/02/13 at 12:33 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

Sure hope Holland took Asset Management 101 at Schoolcraft this past winter, that’d be two summers in a row of bumbling 4m+ per players in Hudler and Fils.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 07/02/13 at 12:34 PM ET

awould's avatar

The Red Wings are out of the bidding for Vincent Lecavalier, who is seeking a five-year deal for $5 million per season, which is a longer term and more money than Detroit is willing to offer.

If $5MM for Lecavalier is more money than Detroit was willing to offer, then they were never in on the bidding to begin with. 5 years is too long for Vinny, given his decline of late, but $5MM is the low end of what he’s worth.

Also, in general, why is it that Detroit is ALWAYS out of the running for every UFA as soon as it becomes apparent they’ll have to pay a market price? There is a list of UFA every season that Detroit is apparently hot for, and then they back off as soon as it is apparent that other teams are interested and the salary for said player will rise some. And the media reports it like it’s a surprise.

At some point, you just gotta accept that what a guy is worth is what the market will pay him and Detroit will have to bite the bullet.

Posted by awould on 07/02/13 at 12:39 PM ET

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At some point, you just gotta accept that what a guy is worth is what the market will pay him and Detroit will have to bite the bullet.

Detroit only want high end players if those players are willing to take a pay cut.

Mid- and low-level players though?  Detroit loves overpaying them!

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 12:41 PM ET

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If $5MM for Lecavalier is more money than Detroit was willing to offer, then they were never in on the bidding to begin with. 5 years is too long for Vinny, given his decline of late, but $5MM is the low end of what he’s worth.

Also, in general, why is it that Detroit is ALWAYS out of the running for every UFA as soon as it becomes apparent they’ll have to pay a market price? There is a list of UFA every season that Detroit is apparently hot for, and then they back off as soon as it is apparent that other teams are interested and the salary for said player will rise some. And the media reports it like it’s a surprise.

At some point, you just gotta accept that what a guy is worth is what the market will pay him and Detroit will have to bite the bullet.

That is why Ken Holland chases his own UFA’s, he is dedicated to lowballing UFA’s because he thinks it is an honor to play for Detroit or something.  This is why I never believe he’s going to do anything except chase his own ufa’s.  He is incapable to paying market price for any player not Swedish or that has not originally played in Detroit.  He will also consider guys who are under 5ft10in and are soft, but other than that they should grab their ankles if they want to play here because Detroit will always low ball them.  This is why cap space means nothing to this team.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 12:43 PM ET

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Posted by Leo_Racicot on 07/02/13 at 01:34 PM ET

Let’s not forget the potential that they let their #3 regular season and #1 playoff goal-scorer walk for nothing as well.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 12:44 PM ET

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I find it ironic that Weiss is in his wheelhouse at similar term and money as Lecavalier but somehow Vinny is too expensive and concerned about his “pace” while his former underling in Dallas eats his lunch

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 12:44 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Everyone OUTSIDE of Detroit is saying that Lecavalier has not yet made his decision. It’s only St. James and Khan who claim that it’s Dallas or Dallas.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/02/13 at 12:46 PM ET

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He is incapable to paying market price for any player not Swedish or that has not originally played in Detroit.

That’s not true, he overpaid for (and gave too long a term too) Colaiacovo and Tootoo.

And when I say he paid “more than market price”  for Colaiacovo, I mean he managed to give too much much and too many years to a guy that nobody else in the league had any interest in.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 12:48 PM ET

Red Winger's avatar

he thinks it is an honor to play for Detroit or something.

Well, it’s not like he just made that up out of thin air. There was a time that was the case. Hull, Yzerman, and Lidstrom taking pay cuts to get the top FAs out there. And the FA’s at times took less money from Detroit than some other teams had on the table.

But why Kenny still has that mindset is the confusing part.

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 07/02/13 at 12:49 PM ET

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There was a time that was the case…But why Kenny still has that mindset is the confusing part.

Exactly.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 12:50 PM ET

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Well, it’s not like he just made that up out of thin air. There was a time that was the case. Hull, Yzerman, and Lidstrom taking pay cuts to get the top FAs out there. And the FA’s at times took less money from Detroit than some other teams had on the table.

Pre 2005 he had every reason, now it’s a joke to have that mindset. 

Everyone OUTSIDE of Detroit is saying that Lecavalier has not yet made his decision. It’s only St. James and Khan who claim that it’s Dallas or Dallas.

But George, either way it’s not Detroit, they are concerned about his “pace” and don’t want to go beyond 2yrs.  That way they can overspend on Weiss or some other smurf or smurfette.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 12:52 PM ET

awould's avatar

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 01:41 PM ET
Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 01:43 PM ET

Yes, it is frustrating as hell too. The players want the money of course. But it used to be that there were a small handful of teams that were primed to win the Cup, and Detroit was always on that list. A top level UFA could make a pretty good bet that signing for less with Detroit had a good chance of getting him a Cup. The list of these guys isn’t short, and with no salary cap and a willing owner, it earned the Wings a lot of success.

Those times are over and somebody needs to tell Holland. I’m not advocating overpaying or wrecking your cap scheme, but Holland is far too conservative and I see a lot of 2nd round exits for Detroit with the current plan. Of course, if they manage to sign Vinny L. for $5.75/3-years, I’ll have to eat some crow but I’ll be happy to do it.

Posted by awould on 07/02/13 at 12:53 PM ET

Red Winger's avatar

I can’t believe Fil played as poorly as he did in a contract year, and yet he and his agent feel he’s worth 4+mil. There must be some dumbass GM out there that has signaled he is willing to overpay for him.

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 07/02/13 at 12:53 PM ET

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Yes, it is frustrating as hell too. The players want the money of course. But it used to be that there were a small handful of teams that were primed to win the Cup, and Detroit was always on that list. A top level UFA could make a pretty good bet that signing for less with Detroit had a good chance of getting him a Cup. The list of these guys isn’t short, and with no salary cap and a willing owner, it earned the Wings a lot of success.

Those times are over and somebody needs to tell Holland. I’m not advocating overpaying or wrecking your cap scheme, but Holland is far too conservative and I see a lot of 2nd round exits for Detroit with the current plan. Of course, if they manage to sign Vinny L. for $5.75/3-years, I’ll have to eat some crow but I’ll be happy to do it.

No one is asking them to break the bank, but Lecavalier at say, 5mm/yr for 4yrs would still make him your 3rd highest paid player, less than both Datsyuk and Zetterberg, where he should be.  Why Detroit could not cough up that dough is beyond me.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 12:55 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

6. Valtteri Filppula

POS: C | 2013 Team: Red Wings
His production was way down this season with just 17 points in 41 seasons

That is quite a drop off.

Posted by RWBill from Brush Street cruising with Super Creepy Rob Lowe. on 07/02/13 at 12:55 PM ET

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“We kicked the tires on a few players and tried to make some trades but it has to be a good fit. Ultimatly we like our team and the flexibility of having cap space going into next year.”

K. Holland this coming Saturday.

Posted by lancer on 07/02/13 at 12:55 PM ET

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Why Detroit could not cough up that dough is beyond me.

Especially given the talk that they’re seriously pursuing Stephen Weiss…

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 12:59 PM ET

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Wake me up when any one of the local writers or bloggers has the sack to write the article that NEEDS to be written.

That is acquisitions and losses since 2008.  The no spin, straight facts of Kenny’s last five years of work.

All the data is there and it is absurdly ugly and in no way shape or form aligns with the image that Holland has or spends times carefully cultivating through his spin and lap dog management.

Again, wake me up when that story is written…

Posted by deanwerner on 07/02/13 at 01:00 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

It seems to me that there are several decent forwards out there this year.  We may not get Vinny, but I think we’ll get one of them.  It isn’t like last year when there were only three or four options on the menu.

I’m not too worried about it.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 01:01 PM ET

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It seems to me that there are several decent forwards out there this year.  We may not get Vinny, but I think we’ll get one of them.  It isn’t like last year when there were only three or four options on the menu.

I’m not too worried about it.

It’s pretty much pick me overs and dog crap.  Ryan Clowe?  Maybe at the right price but I bet he goes elsewhere like Chicago for less.  I don’t want Weiss at any price, he’s injury prone and small exactly what we don’t need.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 01:03 PM ET

awould's avatar

they’re seriously pursuing Stephen Weiss…

Well, until it becomes apparent Weiss’ agent is intent on getting him as much money as the market will pay. Then Weiss will add his name to the list of tires Kenny kicked that summer.

Posted by awould on 07/02/13 at 01:04 PM ET

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I’d pass on Vinny @ 5 yrs. I’d also pass on Clarkson @ 5 mill a year and Horton @ 6 mill a year. KH is a smart man. Don’t get why some of you are mad about KH not willing to shell out 5 mill on Vinny for 5 years. Makes perfectly good sense to me .. I think most of you have a love hate thing going on for Holland.

Posted by Probie4Prez on 07/02/13 at 01:05 PM ET

SnLO's avatar

“We kicked the tires on a few players and tried to make some trades but it has to be a good fit. Ultimatly we like our team and the flexibility of having cap space going into next year.”
K. Holland this coming Saturday.
Posted by lancer on 07/02/13 at 01:55 PM ET

i just experienced a bout of deja vu… almost as if we’ve danced this dance before

I think you’re spot on. The team we’re going into the season with is already on the roster. No new additions; only subtractions. We really like our team.

Posted by SnLO from beyond the M-1 on 07/02/13 at 01:06 PM ET

Mandingo's avatar

Wake me up when any one of the local writers or bloggers has the sack to write the article that NEEDS to be written.

That is acquisitions and losses since 2008.  The no spin, straight facts of Kenny’s last five years of work.

All the data is there and it is absurdly ugly and in no way shape or form aligns with the image that Holland has or spends times carefully cultivating through his spin and lap dog management.

Again, wake me up when that story is written…

Posted by deanwerner on 07/02/13 at 02:00 PM ET

I’m not nearly as down on Holland as some folks around here, but I would like someone smarter than me to at least attempt to explain the way the Wings have handled Filppula from the trade deadline until now, assuming that the reports are correct that he’s gone.

Can someone, anyone, explain to me why, if they obviously knew there was almost no chance of re-signing him, he wasn’t flipped?

I’m all ears.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/02/13 at 01:06 PM ET

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I’d pass on Vinny @ 5 yrs. I’d also pass on Clarkson @ 5 mill a year and Horton @ 6 mill a year. KH is a smart man. Don’t get why some of you are mad about KH not willing to shell out 5 mill on Vinny for 5 years. Makes perfectly good sense to me .. I think most of you have a love hate thing going on for Holland.

Mine is mostly dislike, I don’t hate grin  I have no problem paying Vinny for 5yrs, I know I’m in the minority but even 3yrs from now he’s still going to be 6ft4in and still going to be 220lbs and willing to mix it up.  I would also bet that he will still have enough talent to be a legit second line center for the next few years.  I can stomach paying Lecavalier for 5yrs then I currently can paying Franzen for another 10yrs or so.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 01:10 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

“We kicked the tires on a few players and tried to make some trades but it has to be a good fit. Ultimatly we like our team and the flexibility of having cap space going into next year.”

K. Holland this coming Saturday.

Hey, getting Darren Helm back on the ice is the same thing as a Trade-deadline deal!

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/02/13 at 01:13 PM ET

Avatar

Hey, getting Darren Helm back on the ice is the same thing as a Trade-deadline deal!

Yeah, the 2015-16 season trade deadline.

Posted by godblender on 07/02/13 at 01:15 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

  Wake me up when any one of the local writers or bloggers has the sack to write the article that NEEDS to be written.

  That is acquisitions and losses since 2008.  The no spin, straight facts of Kenny’s last five years of work.

  All the data is there and it is absurdly ugly and in no way shape or form aligns with the image that Holland has or spends times carefully cultivating through his spin and lap dog management.

  Again, wake me up when that story is written…

  Posted by deanwerner on 07/02/13 at 02:00 PM ET

I’m not nearly as down on Holland as some folks around here, but I would like someone smarter than me to at least attempt to explain the way the Wings have handled Filppula from the trade deadline until now, assuming that the reports are correct that he’s gone.

Can someone, anyone, explain to me why, if they obviously knew there was almost no chance of re-signing him, he wasn’t flipped?

I’m all ears.

Fil AND White.  Perfectly fine NHL caliber defenseman sitting in a suit eating hotdogs every night and we couldn’t get a 7th rounder for him?

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/02/13 at 01:16 PM ET

Avatar

It seems to me that there are several decent forwards out there this year.  We may not get Vinny, but I think we’ll get one of them.  It isn’t like last year when there were only three or four options on the menu.

I’m not too worried about it.

All of which Holland will refuse to pay market value for.

Posted by George0211 on 07/02/13 at 01:16 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

It’s pretty much pick me overs and dog crap.  Ryan Clowe?  Maybe at the right price but I bet he goes elsewhere like Chicago for less.  I don’t want Weiss at any price, he’s injury prone and small exactly what we don’t need.

Posted by bababooey on 07/02/13 at 02:03 PM ET

Thus spoke Zarathustra. 

I don’t like the status quo either man.  I can understand the frustration, but every FA out there is over the hill, injury prone, or mediocre.  This is the reality of the salary cap world.  No one says you have to like it, but temper your expectations.  29 other teams are playing with the same hand.  Free agency is a crap shoot.  You might as well accept it. 

No one is gonna drive out of free agency in a brand new Mustang.  All I know is Detroit should get one of these guys we they’ll (probably) be better for it.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 01:19 PM ET

Crater's avatar

Is it just me, or should the team just focus on getting a high scoring player? We have Z and Pav to play 1a and 1b center. What we need is a solid scoring winger, if we need Pav and Z to play together we can manage a servicable player for the 2nd line center for parts of a game. Maybe get a true 2nd line center at the trade deadline. Scoring has been the biggest problem. I’d rather it be fixed while we deal with the current Youth infused D and their growing pains.

Posted by Crater from SoCal on 07/02/13 at 01:19 PM ET

Ajax19's avatar

Can someone, anyone, explain to me why, if they obviously knew there was almost no chance of re-signing him, he wasn’t flipped?
I’m all ears.
Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 07/02/13 at 02:06 PM ET

I don’t think it’s quite that easy.  If it was that easy, then why aren’t more UFAs flipped if every time it was obvious that there was almost no change of re-signing a UFA?  How many UFAs were “flipped” this year before free agency?  Streit?  (Maybe one more, I feel like there may have been one more, but I can’t recall). 

It’s the exception and not the rule that UFA rights are flipped after the season.  It takes a team willing to give up an asset simply for the chance that they may sign a player a few weeks before he can be bid on.

I am sure Holland though there was a chance they could re-sign him and I am not sure if there were any takers for this rights.

As for this whole free agency thing.  Until last year - when Holland did go out and oddly over spend and perplexing players like Samuelsson, Tootoo and Colavaccio, I don’t think he’s been all that bad at this stuff.  Outside of a few players, I have had time remebering thinking to myself:  “Damn, that’s a really good deal that Team X signed Player Y to.  Would have been perfect.” 

Come July 5th and the days after, a lot of these players will sign contracts that are really above and beyond what I’d want the Wings to spend on them.  Personally, I don’t think $5 million is too much of Lecavalier, but 5 years is a bit long.

I will be disappointed if the team does just sort of stand pat, re-sign Cleary and Brunner maybe make a fringe move.  If they lose both Brunner and Filppula and don’t sign a potential top six forward to replace them, that won’t be good.

While spending a ton of money on questionable free agents is never a good idea, this team was the 8th seed and made the playoffs on the last day of the season.  Yes, they played pretty well in the playoffs, but still gave up 3-1 lead and didn’t make it out of the second round.

Posted by Ajax19 on 07/02/13 at 01:19 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

I’m in the “I don’t hate Kenny Holland, but I feel like his performance has dropped in recent years and I would like to see him prove that he’s still the awesome GM we all once believed he was this summer” Camp.  Which is why I’m not giving up hope on Vinny until I see him pull on another team’s sweater.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/02/13 at 01:19 PM ET

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The key word you guys are throwing around but not sure its completely understood is “value”...  Why is Vinny where he is now? Because his value wasn’t worth what he is being paid.  Market Value is an illusion created by supply and demand and nothing else.  Iginla, Vinny, Jagr, etc… are all players who best days are behind them but still think they should command top dollar even though they don’t offer top value.

I applaud Ken Holland for not crippling the club financially by resisting the urge to offer top dollar and over pay for players who aren’t worth what other teams are throwing at them.  In the free spending days of the NHL KH didn’t have to worry about real value, there was no limit to how much he could spend and an owner who would pay what it took to win.  Now with a cap, you have to get the most value for your dollar because you only have limited dollars, your not going to go out and buy a 30 dollar steak when you only have 100 dollars to eat with all week. (I hope not)  Success has spoiled us and when we start thinking we have to keep up with the Jones, we are going to end up like the Jones which is out of the playoffs, blowing up our team and spending years trying to get back where we were before we made stupid decisions and paid “Market Price” for a player or two.

Posted by AzWingsFan on 07/02/13 at 01:20 PM ET

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Posted by Probie4Prez on 07/02/13 at 02:05 PM ET

Great, so which top six forward WOULD you pay for?

I think most of you have a love hate thing going on for Holland.

Yeah, I would love it if he would sack up and actually pay a player’s worth to address a need the team has, and I hate that he apparently won’t.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 01:20 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Fil AND White.  Perfectly fine NHL caliber defenseman sitting in a suit eating hotdogs every night and we couldn’t get a 7th rounder for him?

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 07/02/13 at 02:16 PM ET

If that were true he would have been on the roster.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 07/02/13 at 01:22 PM ET

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are all players who best days are behind them but still think they should command top dollar even though they don’t offer top value.

See, that’s where you and Ken Holland are wrong.

It doesn’t matter what Vinny thinks he’s worth.  Vinny is worth exactly what teams are willing to pay him, and since we know there are teams willing to pay him $5Mxfive years, then that’s what it’s going to take to get him. Nothing you or Ken Holland or anyone who doesn’t want to pay him that much say will change that.

If you want a top-six forward you have to pay top six forward prices.

Posted by Garth on 07/02/13 at 01:24 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.