Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Just your average day at TMR: removing sharp objects, padding corners due to DeKeyser Watch

I don't believe that the Red Wings were a "fit" for Jarome Iginla, and they never were.

Why?

First and foremost, Iginla's "list" of teams to which he'd accept a trade didn't include the Wings, and second, adding someone like Iginla would've totally messed up the Wings' cap situation with the team looking to:

A) Re-sign UFA's-to-be Jimmy Howard, Damien Brunner, maybe Valtteri Filppula and/or Danny Cleary and/or Drew Miller and/or Ian White;

B) Re-sign RFA's-to-be Brendan Smith, Gustav Nyquist, Joakim Andersson and Jakub Kindl, all with the salary cap going down from $70.2 million to $64.3 million during the 2013-2014 season;

C) Make hard decisions as to how the team will accommodate the inevitable promotions of Nyquist, Andersson and Tatar to Detroit on a full-time basis, likely at the expense of two of Miller, Cleary and Filppula, if not a cap-compliance buy-out spent on Mikael Samuelsson and/or parting ways with one of Patrick Eaves or Cory Emmerton and/or encouraging Todd Bertuzzi to have back surgery to alleviate a roster crunch because;

D) The team will closely monitor the UFA and cap-compliance buy-out market (don't be surprised if the Wings either use their other cap-compliance buy-out or a regular buy-out to say goodbye to Carlo Colaiacovo) as its modus operandi involves adding players via free agency...

And there is no doubt whatsoever that even if the team adds a defenseman or forward at the trade deadline, the Wings are sucking it up in terms of embracing a forced youth movement and a "transitional/rebuilding year" for the sake of seeing what their "kids" can do before finally and meaningfully addressing the team's need for another top-pair defenseman and some sort of goal-scoring forward with size, with both Ken Holland and his "special assistant," Kris Draper, repeatedly stating their desire to fill the latter hole during radio and TV interviews.

Nevertheless, Red Wings nation is pretty pissed off at Holland and the Wings' braintrust today (again, please remember that assistant GM Jim Nill, de-facto assistant GM and capologist Ryan Martin, Mark Howe, Kirk Maltby and the pro scouts, Joe McDonnell, Hakan Andersson and the amateur scouts, prospect evaluators like director of player development Jiri Fischer, Chris Chelios and Chris Osgood, advisor-at-large Jimmy Devellano and the coaching staff all work as a team when determining whether to make trades, re-sign players or allow them to walk, or to promote prospects on full or part-time bases), and I'm guessing that some of you absolutely freaked out when you saw this Tweet from the CBC's Elliotte Friedman:

DeKeyser's been wined and dined by at least half of the league's 30 teams over the past three days, including the Nashville Predators, St. Louis Blues, Toronto Maple Leafs, Edmonton Oilers, Anaheim Ducks, and to a lesser extent, the Wings.

Every team's made a pilgrimage to Newport Sports Management's offices in Mississauga, with teams speaking to DeKeyser and super-agent Don Meehan with the kind of deference and promises of playing time and superb treatment usually reserved for an elite unrestricted free agent with significant NHL experience, not a 23-year-old #3/4 defenseman in the Brad Stuart mold with 3 years of NCAA experience under his belt.

So it's good living for DeKeyser if you can get it, and if the money being equal means that you're going to get a rookie cap-max deal and promises of regular playing time at the NHL level right off the bat from every team that wants to buy you a $100 steak and probably bestow you with a several-thousand-dollar watch, cufflinks or other "gifts" that DeKeyser's never been able to accept as an NCAA athlete.

But he's going to make his decision sooner than later, and I've heard "Wings or Bolts" since he was swarmed by the press at the Red Wings' summer prospect camp two summers ago, not to be asked about his status as an elite prospect in the making, but instead, to be asked about Western Michigan University coach and DeKeyser-recruiter Jeff Blashill leaving the team to become the Wings' assistant coach.

According to the Sporting News's Craig Custance, DeKeyser will make his decision as to which NHL team he'll sign with today or on Friday:

Western Michigan University defenseman Danny DeKeyser is this year's best college unrestricted free agent and, after a week of entertaining offers and pitches from teams, should be closing in on a decision. According to a source close to DeKeyser, he wants to make his decision Thursday or "no later than early Friday."

He grew up a Red Wings fan and is close with the family of Jim Nill, Detroit's talented assistant general manager, so the Red Wings are considered the front-runner to land DeKeyser. According to Red Wings beat writer Ansar Khan, Ken Holland wasn't taking anything for granted and flew to Toronto to make a final pitch.

DeKeyser isn't Justin Schultz, but one trusted NHL amateur scout said he's almost ready to contribute at the NHL level. Toronto, Edmonton, Anaheim, Tampa Bay and many others are all considered in the mix.

"Schultz wows you more, but this kid -- if you're watching him offensively -- he gets the puck to the right people," the scout said. "We've been watching him for a couple years. He's a steady player. We're in there [to sign him] … He's smart; one of those players the more you see him, the more you like him."

I like the fact that the Free Press's Helene St. James suggested that the Wings believe that they're the favorites to land DeKeyser (although she's since removed that quip from her first DeKeyser article of the week), but I don't like the odds in terms of DeKeyser having 30 teams to choose from...

And while I do believe that the Wings will be much more aggressive heading toward the trade deadline if they don't land him, either way, I know that Red Wings nation is in freak-out mode given the Penguins' acquisitions of Brenden Morrow and Iginla, given the Wings' stand-pat approach during the season and still given the team's inability to land Ryan Suter, Zach Parise and/or any other elite unrestricted free agent last summer...

So I'm removing the pointy objects and padding any sharp corners in the comments section here at TMR, because I know that DeKeyser going anywhere but Detroit will yield even more wailing and gnashing of teeth from a fan base that seems to want to blame Ken Holland and Mike Babcock very specifically for everything from the Wings' power play issues to Damien Brunner's crooked nose--or nearly so.

Hell, this kind of quip from Hockey's Future, praising their 20th-ranked prospect out of their Top 50 list for spring, will probably make most of you cringe about the Kyle Quincey trade a year ago. This is the player the Tampa Bay Lightning picked with the draft pick the Wings sent to Tampa Bay:

20. Andrey Vasilevskiy, G – Tampa Bay Lightning
Height: 6-3 Weight: 204, Fall Ranking – 42

The first goaltender taken in the 2012 NHL Draft, Vasilevskiy is a Russian goaltender best known in North America for his impressive play in the 2012 and 2013 World Junior Championships. Vasilevskiy is extremely athletic and has a good glove hand, though he is also quite technically sound and moves laterally very well. He has spent the last four years developing primarily with Tolpar Ufa of the MHL and has been extremely good at that level. He even managed to play in eight KHL games for Salavat Yulaev Ufa and acquitted himself nicely.

With one more year remaining on his contract, Vasilevskiy is expected to spend the stretch of the 2013-14 season in the KHL, and then likely make his way to North America once his committment is completed.

The reality of the Wings' situation is that the management staff seems to have reconciled itself to enduring a transitional year before reloading this summer as of last July, when their pitch for Ryan Suter didn't pan out, and the team's injuries to veteran players/signings that were supposed to smooth the team's transition to a younger roster (see: Samuelsson, Colaiacovo, Gustavsson's groin, Bertuzzi and Darren Helm's backs, the injuries to White, Quincey, Ericsson, Filppula, Franzen, etc.) have yielded a serious-ass youth movement by default that the team's embracing ahead of the trade deadline.

I don't see any moves being made because the Wings believe that free agency's the easiest way for the team to add without subtracting. That may change if DeKeyser heads elsewhere, but it doesn't mean that DeKeyser signing elsewhere will yield some sort of magical push for Keith Yandle or Jay Bouwmeester at the expense of the team's future or future cap space.

So prepare for wailing, thrashing and gnashing of teeth, even if the Wings do land DeKeyser.

Update: For the record, I'm getting a little tired of being told that I explicitly support everything the Wings do. I'm trying to explain the Wings' rationale in terms of what's most likely to happen so that we can deal with it, and am not trying to absolve the Wings' players, coaches or management from blame.

As far as I'm concerned, the Wings never should have been content to let Matt Carle slip away to the Lightning while waiting for Suter to make his decision, and I would've told Parise to fish or cut bait. I also would have considered bolstering the top four prior to this year's deadline. But I'm not the GM and I don't believe in skewering the team every time they make a decision I disagree with.

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Comments

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DAN M's avatar

Hey George

Gotta say great read man. You’re as top notch as it gets. No bs. Thanks for all the work you put in. I agree with all you said and anyone who talks smack about u is an idiot.

DAN

Posted by DAN M on 03/28/13 at 12:48 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

As far as I’m concerned, the Wings never should have been content to let Matt Carle slip away to the Lightning while waiting for Suter to make his decision, and I would’ve told Parise to fish or cut bait. I also would have considered bolstering the top four prior to this year’s deadline.

This^^^^^
Now trade Flip and White, for petes sake!

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 03/28/13 at 12:50 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Thanks, but people are totally allowed to call me an idiot. Part of my job involves not only dealing with readers who disagree with me, but also readers who decide that disagreeing with my point of view makes me a complete moron. It happens.

Like I said at the end, I don’t agree with everything the Wings do, but I don’t get the vitriol and vicious hatred displayed toward the team when we fans do disagree with the team’s decisions.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/28/13 at 12:52 PM ET

DAN M's avatar

I think in ken hollands twisted mind he believed cola would be an adequate fallback to losing out on carle. + tb doesn’t really help us out by giving carle a baby campbell type deal. Thanks yzerman.  I also believe something is wrong with quincey. We expected him to be a 2 way rock solid 3-4 guy. Epic failure there. Not worth a 1st rder. I’d have rather had oduya or zidlicky in a heartbeat.

Posted by DAN M on 03/28/13 at 12:57 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

Focusing on this situation alone:  curious to hear what kind of sales pitch folks believe Holland is giving to guys like DeKeyser and Schultz?

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 03/28/13 at 01:05 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

Nothing’s wrong with Quincey, but something’s wrong with Holland for trading a first rounder for a guy who failed to beat out Lilja, Lebda and Meech for a roster spot.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/28/13 at 01:06 PM ET

Leo_Racicot's avatar

I also believe something is wrong with quincey. We expected him to be a 2 way rock solid 3-4 guy. Epic failure there.

Posted by DAN M on 03/28/13 at 01:57 PM ET

If you’re somebody looking from the outside in on this franchise, nothing could be hurt your appeal more than moves like that.  It’d be one thing if Quincey was an unknown commodity who we were taking a reach with, it’s another that he actually comes form the farm system and got quite a few minutes with the big boys before he left town.

Posted by Leo_Racicot on 03/28/13 at 01:07 PM ET

LivinLaVidaLockout's avatar

Nothing’s wrong with Quincey, but something’s wrong with Holland for trading a first rounder for a guy who failed to beat out Lilja, Lebda and Meech for a roster spot.
   
    Posted by
     
    redxblack
     
    from Akron Ohio on 03/28/13 at 02:06 PM ET

Yeah, why did we let Lebda get away anyways?

Posted by LivinLaVidaLockout on 03/28/13 at 01:10 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

I think this “All In” approach that Pittsburgh has taken this last week is only going to make their early Play-off exit that much more spectacular and enjoyable for the rest of us to watch.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 03/28/13 at 01:13 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

At least according to players who visit Detroit, there is still the allure of playing for an Original Six team with a long history of winning, an honest coach, a managerial staff dedicated to winning (regardless of what we feel about their inaction) and an ownership that treats its players like kings.

The fact that players know that coming to Detroit means playing in a hockey-mad area without having to deal with the kind of media spotlight of a Toronto or Vancouver (thanks in part to the Wings’ PR staff’s over-protective nature and in large part due to Metro Detroit’s spread-out area and media’s marching orders to cover football and baseball first from people in New York and Washington D.C. who don’t realize how hockey-mad WJBK, WDIV, WXYZ, WXYT, the Free Press, News, etc.‘s audience is) helps immensely, too.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/28/13 at 01:15 PM ET

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I have to agree with Vladimir16 above about trading White and Flip, think we should ship them off for a Dman should DeKeyser not sign with the Wings.  If he does, we ship them off for a scoring Winger, I like the idea of off to Edmonton for someone and Omark who never has gotten a fair shake with the Oilers. 

And I have to disagree with George as the Wings nation is not freaked out by the Pens moves.  They get 2 forwards with a lot of heart but not a lot of game left as well having just a short time to learn a new system and gel with their new team.  Add a shaky defensive corp that wasn’t helped a whole lot by the addition of Murray and a pair of goalies that are slightly above average at best.  All that together makes this Red Wing nation fan happy and happy that Holland has refused to mortgage the farm for the short term.

Andersson, Nyquist and Tartar are ready for the NHL next season and we will see how close Jarnkrok is next year in GR.  Pick up a few more draft choices at the trade deadline by dealing White, Flip and maybe even a Miller/Eaves/Emmerton and the Wings could be sitting at the top of the league next year with a few summer moves by the front office.  Just saying….

Posted by AzWingsFan on 03/28/13 at 01:25 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I’ve heard “Wings or Bolts” since he was swarmed by the press at the Red Wings’ summer prospect camp two summers ago, not to be asked about his status as an elite prospect in the making, but instead, to be asked about Western Michigan University coach and DeKeyser-recruiter Jeff Blashill leaving the team to become the Wings’ assistant coach.

He grew up a Red Wings fan and is close with the family of Jim Nill, Detroit’s talented assistant general manager, so the Red Wings are considered the front-runner to land DeKeyser.

WOW!!! We are so getting this guy in a Winged Wheel sweater!!!

DeKeyser’s been wined and dined by at least half of the league’s 30 teams over the past three days, including the Nashville Predators, St. Louis Blues, Toronto Maple Leafs, Edmonton Oilers, Anaheim Ducks, and to a lesser extent, the Wings.

Every team’s made a pilgrimage to Newport Sports Management’s offices in Mississauga, with teams speaking to DeKeyser and super-agent Don Meehan with the kind of deference and promises of playing time and superb treatment

Wait, What??? Kenny and the Brain Farts Trust would not disrespect this kid and piss off Don Meehan by taking him for granted would they? Y’all remember Meehan, right? Parise and Suter’s agent.

Ken Holland wasn’t taking anything for granted and flew to Toronto to make a final pitch.

Really? Then why wasn’t Kenny there first? Why not take Cheli along? I don’t know, maybe have Lids fly in from Sweden?

Look, I know this guy is not Doug Harvey or Eddie Shore reincarnated. But, by all acounts, he is or soon will be a decent NHL defensemen. And he is available at no cost to the Wings. They don’t have to give up anyone to get him. They can’t be outbid. All they had to do was show they wanted him more than anyone other club. Which they did, to a lesser extent, allegedly. rolleyes

This guy is gift wrapped. His college coach is in the organization, he’s been to camp and skated with the guys. All Kenny had to do is close the deal. If he goes elsewhere, Kenny is in third place. Third prize is your fired.

I’ve seen the movie, I know how this turns out. BOHICA.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/28/13 at 01:29 PM ET

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I don’t get the vitriol and vicious hatred displayed toward the team when we fans do disagree with the team’s decisions.

I agree. 

The other thing that bemuses me is how it’s the organization that gets all of the hate and not the players, the ones who typically decide who wins and who loses most nights.

For example, Holland gets blasted because he’s not out there like Trader Jack hypnotizing players into signing in Detroit or shoveling loads of picks and prospects out the door to make a bunch of one year signings… but somehow Datsyuk or Zetterberg or Kronwall or Howard don’t get blasted for not doing enough at their jobs.

In a whole bunch of ways it’s exactly the same thing.  For whatever reason people expect Holland to be able to move heaven and earth in order to construct a team they are happy with, but the struggles of D or Z or any of Detroit’s best players (with very few exceptions) aren’t scrutinized with anything close to the same degree of interest.

Zetterberg’s shooting % and goals are down, again, and his faceoff % is sub 50, again.  Is anyone (but me) talking about that?  Nope.  He gets a pass.

Kronwall’s a huge minus out there on the ice despite producing a bunch offensively.  Verdict?  He gets a pass.

Howard’s been pretty hot and cold this year, and he’s hot right now… but when he was cold?  Pass.

Datsyuk’s played very well this year aside from an 11 game goalless streak where the Wings went 5-5-1, but he hasn’t come anywhere close to duplicating what he was doing in 2008 and 2009.  Does he get held to those previous standards, or does he get a pass?  Verdict: pass.

But Holland, Holland gets the facewash by the fan base because 3-4 years after winning a Cup and then getting all the way back to a Cup during which time the Wings are in the playoffs every year and getting 102 points a more every year, well, the team isn’t good enough.  Because Holland hasn’t replaced elite players like, well, nobody else has ever done quickly, either.

That’s what I don’t quite connect with.  I’d at least understand if fans ripped players and the organization for not maintaining their 2008 levels of play, I’d disagree but it would at least be a comprehensible and ideologically consistent position to take… but to just pick out the organization for derision and scorn?  That’s just dumb.

Imagine someone letting Holland completely off the hook and then laying 100% of the blame for the way things are this year on Datsyuk not having 95 points a year and Zetterberg not scoring 44 goals a year?  That would be crazy, right?  A position devoid of any substantive amount of rationality or comprehension of the world as it exists?

Yeah.  Totally.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 03/28/13 at 01:31 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

I agree. This kid has dreamed of wearing the Wheel since he was a kid.  To swing and miss on this kid would be a very black mark on Holland’s resume.  Even if he doesn’t work out for us, we can always trade him off to one of the other, less-talented GMs that missed out on signing him for another prospect/pick.  All, as CaptainDennis says, at little or no cost to us.

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 03/28/13 at 01:35 PM ET

IwoCPO's avatar

again, please remember that assistant GM Jim Nill, de-facto assistant GM and capologist Ryan Martin, Mark Howe, Kirk Maltby and the pro scouts, Joe McDonnell, Hakan Andersson and the amateur scouts, prospect evaluators like director of player development Jiri Fischer, Chris Chelios and Chris Osgood, advisor-at-large Jimmy Devellano and the coaching staff all work as a team when determining whether to make trades, re-sign players or allow them to walk, or to promote prospects on full or part-time bases

Why do you keep harping on this George?  Ken Holland is the GM. It’s not a democracy. He has the 51 percent.  I get that he has advisors. Every leader does.  Who he listens to in each situation varies depending on situation.  I guarantee you Kirk Maltby has never had the final say in a damn thing. No one in your list has.  Holland’s the GM. He is singularly accountable for the status of this team.

And if he doesn’t land DeKeyser: he needs to go.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 03/28/13 at 01:51 PM ET

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You guys honestly complain too much sometimes and demonize RW staff when things don’t go the way you expect.  You guys went crazy about Shultz, if you look now he’s getting points but also is second worst +/- on his team.  Yeah, he’s young, etc.  Detroit has plenty of young talent on defense at the moment who are getting the job done, maybe this guy is an upgrade but how much of one?  You guys complained about Suter/Parise; yes they are carrying the Wild but that team is going to have cap issues from here to eternity.

Now the Penguins are betting the future on today, they are going to have cap issues as long as they have both Crosby and Malkin, so they are going to have no choice but to fill out much of their roster with journeymen and low draft picks once their talent leaves for real money.

Not saying what the RW has done is perfect, but there are two sides to every story and it would be fairly retarded to think Kenny Holland doesn’t have some kind of overarching goal in mind.

Another thing, Kenny Holland has been the poster boy for GM in the league for how many years now?  If I were a GM, I would go out of my way to not deal with him.  Nothing is more embarrassing that constantly refueling a team that is constantly at the top.  Between that and the new salary cap era, I imagine his job is that much harder these days.

All that being said, Samuellson and Colo were still crap signings.

Posted by neffernin on 03/28/13 at 01:59 PM ET

DrD's avatar

If the kid prefers Tampa over Detroit, what does that say about his desire to win? I love Stevie, but that organization does not have nearly the depth in knowledge and intelligence as the Detroit management team…if you were putting your career on the line and winning the Cup was at the top of your list, which team would you choose? Hopefully his desire to win will overcome his desire to have a nice tan and play in a no-pressure market like Tampa.

This is obviously a year to test out the kids and assess who is worth keeping and who can be dealt - can Kenny not have one year where he can assess these prospects with out the pressure of having to be a Stanley Cup favorite too? He’s rebuilding on the fly while trying to keep the playoff streak intact, that’s pretty incredible when you think about it.

Posted by DrD on 03/28/13 at 02:03 PM ET

Avatar

maybe this guy is an upgrade but how much of one? (referring to DeKys)

Nothing is more embarrassing that constantly refueling a team that is constantly at the top.  - I mean embarrassing for the rest of hockey’s gms.

Posted by neffernin on 03/28/13 at 02:03 PM ET

Hootinani's avatar

a fan base that seems to want to blame Ken Holland and Mike Babcock very specifically for everything from the Wings’ power play issues to Damien Brunner’s crooked nose—or nearly so.

All I’m saying is. Brunner’s nose was nowhere near as crooked before he came to Detroit; Kenny and Babs are in Detroit.  You do the math.

Posted by Hootinani on 03/28/13 at 02:04 PM ET

MOWingsfan19's avatar

Y’all remember Meehan, right? Parise and Suter’s agent.

Lidstroms former agent too.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 from I really like our team on 03/28/13 at 02:05 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Another thing, Kenny Holland hasn’t been the poster boy for GM in the league for how many years now?

Fixt. Since he let Hossa get away.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/28/13 at 02:10 PM ET

DrD's avatar

How many times have the Wings been to The Cup final in the cap era? Twice. Only Pittsburgh can say that. How many Cups have they won? One and only one game from a second. How many have Chicago, Pittsburgh and Boston won? One.

Dynasties no longer exist, people. We have one of the top GMs in the game, one of the best coaches and the best scouting team, by a long shot.

Get some perspective - Kenny’s going to put another contender together and The Wings won’t be sitting in the basement while he does it. They are going to be respectable - do you know how many teams and other cities would kill to get our management team?

Posted by DrD on 03/28/13 at 02:20 PM ET

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I don’t understand why this is so hard, can someone explain the plan here? We have a GM that seems to be, pardon the pun, winging it.  There would be no youth movement had it not been for the injuries to guys like Samuelsson and Bertuzzi (along with others).  Lashoff would be continuing to patrol the Griffins blueline if not for the injuries to Cola and Huskins and most likely would’ve walked when his contract was up due to lack of opportunity.  And really, I can’t believe I even have to write this, does anyone really believe that Holland was all set to pull the trigger on deals, but was shot down by Chelios or Maltby?  Really?

Posted by bababooey on 03/28/13 at 02:41 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Dynasties don’t exist, so why try?.  With parity it’s all happen-stance.  Feaster doesn’t suck, it’s the nature of the league anymore.  Columbus doesn’t suck, it’s the nature of the league.  Florida doesn’t suck, it’s the nature of the league.

Add that to the fact the more than one person has input on every decision made and you have 0% accountability, so finally the GM’s can relax.

Retiring players?  Legends? Veterans? The nature of the league is, you can’t replace guys.

Every team is a bubble team now. Soooo…  We can go ahead and shut these blog sites down, quit talking about the Wings, quit trying to make reason out of what we’re seeing, it’s all chance.  Once you get in the playoffs, it’s wide open.  So don’t give a shit if you do shitty during the season.  Just need to get hot at the right time and it can happen for you. 

Didn’t make it out of the first round?  No worries, you can’t win every year, there’s parity.

Don’t worry guys, we’ve essentially got no reason to worry or talk about hockey anymore smile Yay!

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/28/13 at 02:41 PM ET

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DrD

How many teams have had the consistent roster and little turnover that the Wings enjoyed?  How many teams had a Lidstrom patrolling their blueline for 20+yrs?  Now ask yourself how many GM’s would allow their top 3 d-men to walk out over the last 2 yrs with absolutely no replacement.

Posted by bababooey on 03/28/13 at 02:45 PM ET

w2j2's avatar

Peter Chiarelli lost the Iginla sweepstakes.  Fire him.

Yzerman’s team is lousy this year, because he traded for an underachieving goalie, and traded away the goalie who is carrying Columbus to new highs.  Fire him.

Holland and his team are the best, or one of the best, management teams in the NHL.
They have been proving this since 1996 or so.
Have some faith, people.

cool hmm

Posted by w2j2 on 03/28/13 at 02:47 PM ET

Avatar

You do understand this has nothing to do with the Iginla sweepstakes, at least for me it doesn’t, so get another strawman argument.  This is about a GM who thus far sits on his hands while other teams try to get better.

Posted by bababooey on 03/28/13 at 02:53 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Fixt. Since he let Hossa get away.
Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 03/28/13 at 03:10 PM ET

Yeah, but he signed the Mule to a lifetime contract…. Okay, I’ll leave

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 03/28/13 at 02:58 PM ET

OnlyWings's avatar

At least according to players who visit Detroit, there is still the allure of playing for an Original Six team with a long history of winning, an honest coach, a managerial staff dedicated to winning (regardless of what we feel about their inaction) and an ownership that treats its players like kings.

Spot on!!!!!!

It will depend how mature DeKeyser is to realize the above and of course his agent(s) want future $$$ ,might not care about the Wings advantages and have their own agendas.

Posted by OnlyWings on 03/28/13 at 03:06 PM ET

OnlyWings's avatar

Why do you keep harping on this George?  Ken Holland is the GM

I have also wondered about seeing this so often. KH has the final say, I would presume? I like Holland to date but it is a results based business.  You strike out to often, too many bad trades (Ugh Quincey/1st Rd Pick) and the GM is in the chopping block.  KH is lucky that Illitch is his boss ultimately but with greater responsibility comes pressure to win.

Needs a Home Run to get the fans off his back, IMO.

Posted by OnlyWings on 03/28/13 at 03:14 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

He’s only swung once since ‘08.  I don’t even necessarily need a homer at this point but we wouldn’t even have a clue about any of our kids this year if we didn’t have all the crazy amounts of injuries this year.  We’d have NO CLUE.  Backs against the wall, they HAD NO CHOICE.  That’s not amazing GM work, that’s making due with what you have as Mike Babcock keeps telling us.

And W2, Bobo never played for Tampa, Yzerman never traded him.  He had Ellis, the Rollie played lights out, then got Lindback who was the Raask to Thomas a couple years back.

And it’s not lack of trades, it’s not seizing opportunities available and swinging and missing, even though we’re so great with the greatest people in the greatest city with the greatest team, we lost out on Suter because he wanted to play at home, yet we may lose out on Dekeyser.  Either way there’s an excuse, either way we’re crazy for wanting to replace Raffi/Lidas/Stuey/Hossa.  it’s not trading just to trade, understand that first off.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/28/13 at 03:46 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

I don’t get the vitriol and vicious hatred displayed toward the team when we fans do disagree with the team’s decisions.
Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/28/13 at 01:52 PM ET

George, I respectfully suggest that you check your dictionary. I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean.

If criticism and second-guessing were tylenol and advil pills, there have certainly been enough of both around here lately to fill Joe Louis Arena to the rafters. But I have yet to see any personal attacks around KK that even come close to bordering on vitriol and viscious hatred.

This isn’t just semantics. When words like that are misused they lose the power to convey important meanings. If the KK threads discussing the Wings front office are vitriolic and viscious hatred, then what do you call what the members of Westboro Baptist Church spew?

 

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/28/13 at 03:56 PM ET

DrD's avatar

All right geniuses (I’m looking at you , Hockeytown Overhaul and yes, I’m being sarcastic), what are the trades that YOU would have made? You know, aside for Franzen and Kindl and all the players we don’t like for all the best players on other teams?

You do realize that you have to have a deal that the other team wants in order to get the player you want, right?

And please name me a GM that has been more successful than Ken Holland in the past twenty years, please, I’m just dying to know…meaning more Stanley Cups - based on your comments, there should be few hundred of them, so it should be pretty easy for you.

 

Posted by DrD on 03/28/13 at 04:03 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

And please name me a GM that has been more successful than Ken Holland in the past FOUR years, please, I’m just dying to know…meaning more Stanley Cups - based on your comments, there should be few hundred of them, so it should be pretty easy for you.

Posted by DrD on 03/28/13 at 05:03 PM ET

Ray Shero, Stan Bowman, Peter Chiarelli, and Dean Lombardi.

D, no has argued that KH wasn’t a successful GM at one point, though much of the nucleus he rode to the three Cups was drafted by Devallano. In fact, KH really only oversaw two Cups, 2002 and 2008. It hardly seems far to give him credit for 1998; that was Devellano’s team.

Nobody disputes KH wasn’t the top executive during the pre-cap days. Since the salary cap? He eked one more run out of his pre-cap team and, as the effects of the cap really started to sink in, he has not had much to show for it since.

FYI, Holland has only been a GM for 14 years, not 20.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/28/13 at 04:17 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

I’d have traded Cleary, I’d trade Filpulla, probably trade White.

And Jimmy Develano put the team together you’re giving credit for Holland assembling.  Jimmy D won his cup in ‘97, with pretty much the same team won it again in 98.  Then he loaded the roster with hall of famers, which was different from 97.  Even Bowman says in the years leading up to it, t hey had great talent but missing pieces.  In come Shanny and Larionov and back to back cups.

And do you mean successful by not getting fired?  Cause Trotz and Ruff must’ve been the two most successful coaches the past 20 years right?

If we’re talking about Cups=Success, Jimmy D gets credit for 2 of the 4 and one we bought every future FoH’er we could and won another. 

Go figure, the last time we won the cup we TRADED for Stuart and mortgaged our future, which must be why the team looks the way it does now (how it’s supposed to look at least, how they planned on it looking with Cleary and Sammy anchoring a SOLID top 6)

...genius..

and who’d Shero deal with if not another GM?  He’s only got 2 of the best players in hockey, no GM’s should want to make them better right?  Only they can tought our achievements post lockout, yet he’s landed Neal and Iginla the past couple years.  We’ve led Lids Raffi and Stuey walk.

Now I’m not saying just make any WAG trades or trading just to trade, which seems to be the premises for all the bitching about trading.  But we’re sitting on pieces that don’t fit, but here we are, not trading again.  And we’ll have what to show for it?  bout the same as we had to show for letting Q go the first time?

genius…

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/28/13 at 04:21 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

and you cleary don’t read my posts and know ANYTHING about my perspective on this, you’re just here to troll.


II’m a realist about trades.  As much as you think we just want to trade garbage for other teams best players, the polar opposite of “reasonable” “true” fans think we have to trade our stars to get garbage, door swings both ways there high-speed.

I garauntee you you can’t dig up ONE single quote about me making a legitimate suggestion of a stupid trade. 

I rarely even speculate and when I do I also relay that caveat.  I admit when I don’t know what I’m talking about. Unlike some people..

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/28/13 at 04:25 PM ET

Avatar

I want Dekeyser, Bouwmeester, and a forward. Maybe Clowe. then ill be happy.

Posted by letsmakeit12 on 03/28/13 at 04:38 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

If Dekeyser signs with Detroit, there can be only one nickname: Söze

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 03/28/13 at 04:43 PM ET

DrD's avatar

Captain DP,

I didn’t say he was a GM for twenty years, I said name a more successful GM in the past twenty years…and by the way, none of your examples are true - even if you credit KH with only two of them…(2002 and 2008) and only one in the cap era (2008), all of your examples have only one - which means at best, they are equals, at least by my math.

Last I checked, the cap was introduced in 2005-2006 - and nobody has more than two Cups since then. So, in fact, there has not been another GM that has won as much as he has in both pre-cap and cap eras in the past twenty years.

Also, keep in mind, in order for those other GMs to be successful, they had to miss the playoffs and be at the bottom of the standings for an extended period and in one case, win a lottery in order to win it all, while all of Kenny’s teams have been playoff teams, and legit contenders in that time…except for this season (which I know is unforgivable for some people) that’s an often overlooked fact that KH-detractors often miss.

Posted by DrD on 03/28/13 at 04:46 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

And we were about to miss the playoffs before our Griffin infusion which the “Brain” Trust didn’t want to do initially, hence signing Sammy and extending Bert.

So if KH misses the playoffs he’s unsuccessful?  That’s all we have to wait for, the streak to end?  End it then.  We shouldn’t be making moves to keep the streak alive, we should be making them to make us contenders.  Sitting on Filpulla, one time 66 point producer who’s going to want 4+m (assuming), we move him now we get picks, assets.  Or we can let him walk. 

Detroit has a hording problem.  KH is gonna end up on TLC with a bunch of dusty dirty players piled up in his office.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 03/28/13 at 05:09 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.