Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

Holland Knows Decisions Will Need To Be Made

from Bill Roose of DetroitRedWings.com,

“We’re going to put the best team we can on the ice every night and as we have decisions to make on the cap we’ll make them,” Holland said. “We’ve done it in the past. We put (Jordin) Tootoo and (Patrick) Eaves on waivers. With the injury to (Danny) DeKeyser it allowed us to bring up Gus. We know he’s an NHL player.”...

“With Nyquist here we’re slowly looking like we’re going to put four lines together,” Holland said. “Hopefully we can get some scoring up and down the lineup. We haven’t had that.”

more

Filed in: | The Malik Report | Permalink
 

Comments

Vladimir16's avatar

Dear Ken Holland
Fuch you, ya little ex goalie (my apologies to all goalies, ex or not).
Also, let’s fix this and right some feckin wrongs,eh. When the time comes eat a bit of humble pie and waive Cleary and Samuelsson and let it feckin ride (ya feckin tool).

Sincerely, a looooong time Wings fan

p.s. Do whatever it takes (which probably means you’ve got to eat another piece of that pie) and hire Scotty Motherfuchin Bowman back.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 11/22/13 at 09:41 PM ET

Avatar

I think your comment is a little bit over the top. Ken Holland will figure it out. No time to over react, he still has until DK returns to make something happen

Posted by Anderj8 on 11/22/13 at 10:10 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 11/22/13 at 08:41 PM ET

I want you to put this on a sign and carry it into the Joe.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/22/13 at 10:52 PM ET

Slumpy's avatar

Have no fear fans, Kenny will trade for a non-contact puck moving defenseman and we’ll make the playoffs as 8th seed on final day of regular season. Course they’ll get eliminated early because we have no Brad Stuart, no D-Mac, No Homer type nor Maltby, you know the bangers that help you win in the playoffs when your team is not a roster full of future of Hall of Famers like in Red Wings 97, 98 and also 2001 SC winners. Wait we did have a few of those players on those teams including Kocur, lol.
Kenny knows best though and Babs wouldn’t play a pest anyway unless all he does is stand at top of crease, sigh. Holmstroms and Ciccarelli’s don’t grow on trees though.

 

Posted by Slumpy from Detroit on 11/22/13 at 11:23 PM ET

PDXWing's avatar

George and Paul -

The first post in this thread is a perfect example of the type of post that is disrespectful to your site and has no business here. I’ve been reading this blog/KK for a long time, but it’s lately gotten out of hand and most of the reasonable contributors have stopped posting. If it were me, I’d have booted a lot of these guys off by now, and I’m surprised you tolerate it.

Posted by PDXWing on 11/22/13 at 11:42 PM ET

Avatar

Hey cool, the thought police have shown up.  Delete everything I disagree with, please.  If you need a list of posts I can provide one.

Posted by Garth on 11/23/13 at 12:00 AM ET

Chet's avatar

I’m sick of hearing about how we need this type of player or that type of player. Nostalgia’s great and all, but it doesn’t win hockey games.

We *have* Malts, his name is now Abdelkader. We *have* Draper, his name is now Helm. We *have* a bunch of Homers, their names are now Bert, Abby, Cleary, even Franzen sometimes.

We don’t really have a McCarty or a Kocur, but we did. His name is Tootoo and he’s largely useless in today’s NHL.

You can argue that those past players, in their primes, are better than the guys we have today, but that’s the cap system.

As an aside, it’s too bad about a guy like Eaves especially. He’d be a useful player to another team, but his salary is, I think $1.2M. Nobody’s got space for a role player with such a high salary. The same may hold true if they try to make Drew Miller the odd man out in favor of Nyquist.

Signing Cleary this past summer was a huge mistake. Signing Samuelsson the summer before was equally awful, if not worse.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 11/23/13 at 12:01 AM ET

Primis's avatar

We’re going to put the best team we can on the ice every night

Why does Holland lie?  He will continue to play Cleary and Samuelsson, so that statement is a flagrant, blatant lie.

We don’t really have a McCarty or a Kocur, but we did. His name is Tootoo and he’s largely useless in today’s NHL.

McCarty was 3x the player Tootoo will ever be.  McCarty was a power forward/grinder that often agitated and sometimes fought.  Tootoo is a fighter first who occasionally reminds everyone that he remembers he plays hockey.  McCarty would go looooong stretches of a season playing actual hockey.  Tootoo can’t restrain himself from dropping the gloves when Babcock gifts him a start close to home.

McCarty had off-ice problems, but on the ice he was *smart*.  McCarty was NEVER a liability come playoff time.  I don’t think Tootoo even understands how that all works.

Posted by Primis on 11/23/13 at 12:19 AM ET

Chet's avatar

that’s fair, but if you’re just talking about “pests” or guys relied on to fight, tootoo is the closest. mccarty back in the day was awesome.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 11/23/13 at 12:30 AM ET

PDXWing's avatar

@Garth - It’s not my site and I have no power on how it’s run, but a handful of people have made this site nearly intolerable. It’s a damn shame, and it has nothing to do with disagreement. I don’t care that people disagree, but there’s a big difference between expressing an opinion and openly insulting the manager of the team. It’s disrespectful to Paul and George, and ultimately cheapens the quality of KK.

Posted by PDXWing on 11/23/13 at 12:32 AM ET

Chet's avatar

People can say what they want here. Don’t worry about how other people govern themselves, worry about how you act yourself. So someone is on the Internet and they’re not being classy. How is that any kind of a shock?

Also, who cares if people “openly insult” Holland? We’re fans; we pay money to watch this team. It’s our right to criticize. If some people do it without class, don’t let it get to you.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 11/23/13 at 12:38 AM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

With the injury to (Danny) DeKeyser it allowed us to bring up Gus. We know he’s an NHL player.

Well, Kenny, apparently you didn’t know that last summer when you brought back Cleary. You knew then that you wouldn’t have either cap or roster space for Gus when you signed Buckets for $1.75M – for which he’s rewarded you (and us) with 1 goal and 2 assists in 22 games.

So, what was it that made you finally realize Gus was an NHL player, Kenny? Was it the two goals he scored in 15 minutes of ice time? Or was it the way he actually helped Franzen look like the Mule again?

Whatever it was, we greatly appreciate your ability to change your mind. Now, get really smart and change your mind about that extension for Buckets because there are a couple of other guys playing in GR who’ll be “ripe” and ready to take his spot next year.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/23/13 at 12:46 AM ET

PDXWing's avatar

Chet - you’re right. Two pointless posts on my part. That said, George has said on multiple occasions that he is fed up with how people behave in the forums, but I guess that’s his battle to fight. Just thought I’d put it out there that I don’t like it. People can say what they want.

Posted by PDXWing on 11/23/13 at 12:50 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Posted by PDXWing on 11/22/13 at 11:32 PM ET

For whatever it’s worth you’re not alone in your thoughts & feelings. Earlier today I was actually thinking how when I used to visit this site at least The Chief was somewhat clever and managed to focus some of his hate & vitriolic at franchises other than Detroit, instead of just armchair bashing on everything KH & Babcock do.

But, yeah, now I visit this site and it’s basically a bash-fest of all-things Detroit, led by the usual suspects, and it’s a big part of why I find myself spending less and less time on the site and why I doubt I’d ever donate money again towards George’s endeavors.

It’s gotten to the point that whenever I see what I might consider somewhat useful or interesting commentary (even if I disagree) by someone like J.J. I wonder why they even bother posting it here because it’s just going to get lost in the hate.

And then like clockwork Garth chimes in with a comment about the “thought police” and I realize I’m not overreacting, it really has become that lame here.

Posted by SK77 on 11/23/13 at 01:01 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Also, who cares if people “openly insult” Holland? We’re fans; we pay money to watch this team. It’s our right to criticize. If some people do it without class, don’t let it get to you.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 11/22/13 at 11:38 PM ET

I wonder if it’s not nostalgia for a place that used to be better that lets something like this “get to you.”

If KK had always been a lame spot on the Internet, then no big loss. But it really has gotten to the point where it’s full of classlessness and sheer stupidity that probably makes certain people want to go elsewhere and eventually not come back, depriving the community as a whole of a worthwhile experience.

And don’t get me wrong, it’s not about have differing opinions, it’s the drone of negativity and shit-talking that makes this place a bummer now.

Posted by SK77 on 11/23/13 at 01:06 AM ET

Chet's avatar

George has said on multiple occasions that he is fed up with how people behave in the forums, but I guess that’s his battle to fight. Just thought I’d put it out there that I don’t like it. People can say what they want.

And don’t get me wrong, it’s not about have differing opinions, it’s the drone of negativity and shit-talking that makes this place a bummer now.

honestly, i don’t know why george lets it get to him, either. his job is to keep a great blog going, and for the most part the less his posts and comments are about him and them and the more they’re about all of our favorite NHL team, the better.

there are going to be classless idiots everywhere. want it to stop? ignore them and they go away, btw.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 11/23/13 at 01:11 AM ET

DocF's avatar

Well I was the sole administrator of a board where the posters all were paying members.  After a few started abusing things and pissed me off, I started banning on the first offense.  Boy, did that clean things up.  And no, you did not get your money back.  The owner, who had taken a leave of absence (actually split to parts unknown) got the money, so I had no way of refunding it even if I wanted.

I left that post after a bit account of the Russian spam-bots.  They made me spend about 3 hours a day deleting their garbage.

Chet, you are right about the team.  I would not want to be the GM or a staffer for the team.  The problem right now is that Cleary and even [gasp] Samuelsson are playing better each game.  They can be gotten rid of at the trade deadline when teams will have some cap space and they will not cost much. 

These clowns from M-live are why I ignore that board for the most part.  First of all, they act like 15 year old idiots full of testosterone and with not one grain of common sense.  Second, they know less about hockey than my North Carolina born and bred wife does. 

I do not want Miller to be gone as he is one of the best penalty killers in the league.  And he fits the Wings scheme of things.  He can play any line at any position and not be out of place.  He is like Craig Adams in that respect.  Cleary will be gone next year as will Samuelsson.  I suspect Alfredsson and Bertuzzi will also be departing.  That will leave a lot of holes to fill. 

And gang, there will be no defensemen who are any better than what the Red Wings have who will be moved any time soon.  The league is too hard up as a whole for average blueliners.  What is in the pipeline is going to be ready sooner rather than later and that is good.

Posted by DocF from Now: Lynn Haven, FL; was Reidsville, NC on 11/23/13 at 01:32 AM ET

Avatar

So, what was it that made you finally realize Gus was an NHL player, Kenny? Was it the two goals he scored in 15 minutes of ice time? Or was it the way he actually helped Franzen look like the Mule again?

Kind of interesting that the two guys who have made Mule look like Mule this year have been Nyquist and Tatar.

And then like clockwork Garth chimes in with a comment about the “thought police” and I realize I’m not overreacting, it really has become that lame here.

Good point.  We should all be allowed to request the deletion of comments we don’t like.  God forbid a hockey fan should decide to vent in the comments section of a blog, huh? 

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.  It’s 2013 after all, a time when you can’t simply disagree with someone, you have to attempt to silence their voice because it offends your delicate sensibilities.

Posted by Garth on 11/23/13 at 01:33 AM ET

SK77's avatar

Posted by Garth on 11/23/13 at 12:33 AM ET

Sorry, Garth, but I said your comments are lame, not that they should be deleted.

Posted by SK77 on 11/23/13 at 01:38 AM ET

Avatar

Why does Holland lie?  He will continue to play Cleary and Samuelsson, so that statement is a flagrant, blatant lie.

It’s a half-truth. They’ll put players on the ice and try to see if that creates the best team they can ice. If it doesn’t, they’ll bring someone else in.

Some of you need to stop being so sensitive. A professional sports team’s general manager screwed up at his job. He didn’t kill your mother.

Posted by CrimsonPhoenix on 11/23/13 at 01:51 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

some kid is right.  The level of discourse often jumps across Primis’ consistent anger and Garth’s snark to flat out crybaby whining and it makes me take the parts of the site which discuss the Red Wings less seriously.

Comment moderation and the “thought police” are two separate concepts. 

For instance: telling people not to bomb comments sections with ridiculous overstatements which drag the conversation off-topic before it can actually be had is moderation.  Telling people that they should just accept that is “thought police.”

Either way, it doesn’t matter. It’s all allowed here. You end up with the comments section you deserve and everybody decides what level of discourse they’ll put up with. That’s that.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/23/13 at 02:16 AM ET

Chet's avatar

AND I HATE NAZIS

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 11/23/13 at 03:22 AM ET

Jaromir Blogger's avatar

While I agree that people will say what they’ll say, I would love to see the KK comments section become a bit more worthwhile again. I suspect this will happen when the Wings improve, but it does get old to see internet tough talk over nothing, commentary on how worthless Cleary and Samuelsson are, and how Holland and Babcock should be fired. I mean, do what you want, and there’s nothing wrong with having an opinion, but saying the same things over and over becomes rather useless after a certain point. And most importantly, it would be nice to see people be nicer to each other. It seems like the majority of the time when a poster disagrees with another, they immediately try to belittle or insult the other. What good does that do anybody? The internet tough guy phenomenon is, in my opinion, the worst issue plaguing this site at the moment.

Posted by Jaromir Blogger on 11/23/13 at 04:55 AM ET

Slumpy's avatar

Haha, sports fans are passionate. I think millionaire GMs, coaches and players get that about us, jeez.
If any feelings are hurt I sure they can dry their tears on their luxury cars or wallet full of money.
They are professionals, don’t worry they can take criticism, it comes with job.
Not here to offend George or Paul but if they go Chinese censor Interent on us I’m gone.

Censorship would make a lot of folks go away yes but who wants to live in a country style police state…..well we basically are already.

Go ahead start deleting post that don’t make you “happy.”

God bless America. Once the land of the free.

Off to pay my seat belt ticket and pay for forced obamacare, pfft.

 

 

Posted by Slumpy from Detroit on 11/23/13 at 08:11 AM ET

WingsFanInBeanLand's avatar

Kirk Maltby once scored 50 goals in juniors.

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from where free agents no longer dare. on 11/23/13 at 09:10 AM ET

RW19's avatar

All the sportsblogs are the same. Fans vent especially when their favorite team is losing. That won’t ever change.

As for Ken Holland ... All i can is that nothing lasts forever. Yes he’s won cups and made great trades and oversaw great drafts. But that was then. Lately his work is pretty average: good with the rebuilding of the talent pipeline, not so good at the NHL pro player scouting level or cap management, especially this year.

Posted by RW19 on 11/23/13 at 09:13 AM ET

topshelf14's avatar

With Florida opening up the cupboards, I’ve been thinking we could acquire Kulikov, a solid puck moving defenseman who can quarterback a PP. Unfortunately we’d have to give up a Tatar but we really need someone back there besides Kronwall and DK that can pass the puck.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 11/23/13 at 09:13 AM ET

Avatar

Why does Holland lie?  He will continue to play Cleary and Samuelsson, so that statement is a flagrant, blatant lie.

Unless, of course, Holland has a different opinion of players than you do.

God forbid, right?

A professional sports team’s general manager screwed up at his job. He didn’t kill your mother.

The thing that really cracks me up about these reactionary types is how narrow their standards are applied, and how wildly their personal biases move those standards.

There are 3-5 contracts on the Wings that range from poor to awful.  There are a whole bunch of contracts which run from decent to very good.  This is not a bad ‘batting average’ relative to the league at large, and was the level of discontent displayed over Holland not achieving roster near-perfection applied equally to individual players for not being similarly near perfect, every roster player on the team would be subject to constant, withering criticism.

In addition, a lot of these same people are just plain old-fashioned flat out terrible at assessing players.  They’re too biased, they lack any kind of memory or perspective, and their focus is just on the Wings without being able to connect their opinions to the league at large.  To the degree that they are capable of anything remotely resembling a feat of memory, it rests solely within their ability to romanticize previous rosters and sigh sadly at the poor (in their opinion) comparison to modern teams.

So, you get what we get here: a bunch of people who don’t know a lot howlingly frustrated with how guys who know a lot more don’t agree with them, compounded by being fans who’ve never really had to deal with anything approaching a mediocre team so the day to day nature of the league is driving them insane to start with.

Then those people take to the internet and VOILA!

Digital excrement smears the walls.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/23/13 at 09:35 AM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

Haha, sports fans are passionate. I think millionaire GMs, coaches and players get that about us, jeez.
If any feelings are hurt I sure they can dry their tears on their luxury cars or wallet full of money.
They are professionals, don’t worry they can take criticism, it comes with job.
Not here to offend George or Paul but if they go Chinese censor Interent on us I’m gone.

Censorship would make a lot of folks go away yes but who wants to live in a country style police state…..well we basically are already.

Go ahead start deleting post that don’t make you “happy.”

God bless America. Once the land of the free.

Off to pay my seat belt ticket and pay for forced obamacare, pfft.


   
    Posted by
     
    Slumpy
     
    from Detroit on 11/23/13 at 07:11 AM ET

Amen, brother.
Ken Holland has really driven me crazy these last few years and nearly every blog I read about the Wings I want to vent about him….but I don’t. I only do it when I can’t stand it anymore. Also, I try not to let other posters get to me and I don’t dig posters insulting each other. But I digress…
The way I look at it, if I’ve got an employee that used to rock it but has been really coasting lately I’m going to have a serious talk with them and try to get them back on track. I feel this is what’s going on with Holland. I really think Bowman had a big say in what moves the Wings made and him being gone has been noticeable. Whether Illitch thinks Holland has been dropping the ball or even cares, I have no idea. I do know that I’m not a fan of Holland anymore and because it’s allowed on this site I will voice my opinion from time to time. If it annoys the apologists then so be it.
That being said: Go Wings!....and Griffins!

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 11/23/13 at 10:08 AM ET

Paul's avatar

I have read every comment made in this post and will be addressing them in the very near future.

Seriously, I must have spent the last half hour trying to decide how to respond to some of the comments but then realized I need to gather my thoughts and address this with a blog post.

In the meantime, do remember as a KK member you have the option to block comments if need be.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/23/13 at 10:19 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Haha, sports fans are passionate. I think millionaire GMs, coaches and players get that about us, jeez.
If any feelings are hurt I sure they can dry their tears on their luxury cars or wallet full of money.

GMs, coaches, and players aren’t reading this dreck.

The way I look at it, if I’ve got an employee that used to rock it but has been really coasting lately I’m going to have a serious talk with them and try to get them back on track. I feel this is what’s going on with Holland.

...Nor are they your employees.

because it’s allowed on this site I will voice my opinion from time to time.

[waves American flag while ‘God Bless America’ blares on loudspeakers and fireworks explode behind a beer-bottle collage of two bald eagles f*cking on the corpse of a bear]

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/23/13 at 10:28 AM ET

Avatar

http://www.rantsports.com/nhl/2013/11/22/bringing-back-dan-cleary-continues-to-haunt-detroit-red-wings/

“Battling a seven-game losing streak, the Detroit Red Wings made a bold step for Thursday’s game against the Carolina Hurricanes and finally called up winger Gustav Nyquist from the Grand Rapids Griffins of the AHL. Just 17 seconds into the game, Nyquist rewarded their faith in him by netting his first goal of the season, and he added the game-winning goal on a breakaway in the third period. That two-goal effort is more of an offensive contribution in one game than what the Red Wings have received from Dan Cleary (22 games), Drew Miller (21 games) or Mikael Samuelsson (11 games). Of that trio, Cleary continues to be the most disappointing player on the roster, and the decision to bring him back as a free agent is set to go down as one of the bigger mistakes in recent franchise history.”
——-

I really don’t understand why KH and Babcock couldn’t see what everyone in the hockey world could see from a million miles away. And now we have Eaves and tootoo, two players I think are better than Cleary and Sammy, in GR because our management couldn’t refrain from signing a player based PURELY on loyalty, not skill. And come to think of it, there is ZERO chance Cleary is waived once DD comes back so…..who gets the ax? Miller, Abby, Lashoff? What do you guys think? My money is on either Miller or Lashoff.

Posted by ZandPasha11 on 11/23/13 at 10:56 AM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

The first post in this thread is a perfect example of how many fans feel right now. I thought George was annoyed when folks were attacking each other and insulting one another. Calling each other idiots, among other names. But, to say the first post is offensive is wrong.

Vladimir16 has done nothing to offend any poster on a personal level. That’s just my take.


Let’s Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 11/23/13 at 11:27 AM ET

Avatar

In addition, a lot of these same people are just plain old-fashioned flat out terrible at assessing players.  They’re too biased, they lack any kind of memory or perspective, and their focus is just on the Wings without being able to connect their opinions to the league at large.  To the degree that they are capable of anything remotely resembling a feat of memory, it rests solely within their ability to romanticize previous rosters and sigh sadly at the poor (in their opinion) comparison to modern teams.

I think it is true that people with low self esteem hate in others the things they hate in themselves.

Remember you love afair with Sammy - said he could score 30 goals a season when he only accomplished that….once? Remember your fantasy of picking up the dream 1st line FA d-man over the summer? Remember how you think an average goalie in the AHL paired with a average backup goalie would solve all of the wings troubles - not to mention that you also feel that good AHL play doesn’t translate into NHL performance at the same level? What breakfast cereal do you eat in the morning to spawn such arrogance in you to deride abject people (in your mind)?

Then those people take to the internet and VOILA!

And here you are too. Why degrade yourself with such filth?

Posted by howeandhowe on 11/23/13 at 06:01 PM ET

Add a Comment

Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.

Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.

Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.

Smileys

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Feed

Most Recent Blog Posts

About The Malik Report

The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.