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Headed To Vegas Or Not?

from Mlive,

Here is a look at some of the Red Wings available and why or why not Vegas would select them. It does not include players such as Niklas Kronwall and Jonathan Ericsson, who are certain not to be taken due to several reasons (age, contract, declining performance).

Riley Sheaha

Why he’d appeal to Vegas: He’s big (6-3, 222), young (25), has a manageable contract (one year remaining at $2.075 million) and remains under club control in 2018 as a restricted free agent. He went 79 games without a goal before scoring twice in the season finale, but it might just be a fluke, since he was productive for a third-line player the previous three seasons.

Why he wouldn’t: Not physical for his size, consistency issues, limited offensive upside.

Darren Helm

Why he’d appeal to Vegas: Tremendous speed and versatility (can play top-six or bottom-six roles, power play, penalty kill, center or wing). He can score 12-to-15 goals a season.

Why he wouldn’t: Contract and health concerns. He is 30 and has four years remaining at a $3.85 million cap hit. He has missed many games during his career with a variety of injuries, including a dislocated shoulder that idled him for a large chunk of 2016-17. The only way Vegas would select him is if another team is interested and they have a deal in place.

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Comments

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Would dekeyser have been selected if he weren’t protected in favor of a guy like nosek

Posted by Hold this L on 06/19/17 at 08:08 AM ET

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If it was Holland’s plan to make a statement to Mrazek about attitude, it should have been appropriate to make a statement to Abdelkader and DeKeyser about their play.

Posted by NEWing on 06/19/17 at 08:28 AM ET

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Just noticed that Chicago protected Jurco.  Wow

Posted by NEWing on 06/19/17 at 08:31 AM ET

TreKronor's avatar

I would LOVE if Vegas took Helm.  Really would be happy for Helm as a player, happy for us as an organization, and happy for Vegas because he’s a good player.  Win win win.

Posted by TreKronor on 06/19/17 at 08:54 AM ET

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There’s a lot of hand wringing over who the Wings are going to lose from their worst team in the past 25 years.  We’ve been conditioned by the Wings to believe their prospects & players have greater value than they actually do.  No one on their exposed list would fetch much more than a mid round draft pick.  The Wings are in a bad place right now, who they lose to Vegas is the least of their problems.

Posted by Steve1306 on 06/19/17 at 09:56 AM ET

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There’s a lot of hand wringing over who the Wings are going to lose from their worst team in the past 25 years.  We’ve been conditioned by the Wings to believe their prospects & players have greater value than they actually do.  No one on their exposed list would fetch much more than a mid round draft pick.  The Wings are in a bad place right now, who they lose to Vegas is the least of their problems.

Posted by Steve1306 on 06/19/17 at 09:56 AM ET

Losing a player isn’t going to kill us. What’s contributed to the demise of our franchise is awful asset management and a complete inability to complete a trade that addresses our weaknesses. This expansion draft presented a unique opportunity to not only make an impact trade, but also to wisely manage our assets. Other GMs are surrending draft picks to steer Vegas towards a certain player. Why didn’t Kenny use his abundance of picks to entice Vegas to rid us of someone like Abdelkader or Ericsson? Nope. Not even a consideration. Mr. Magoo couldn’t even bring himself to expose Abby. and instead exposes players that have far more trade value. It’s yet another reminder that Mr. Magoo is in over his head.

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 10:02 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by Steve1306 on 06/19/17 at 09:56 AM E

AMEN!

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 10:10 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Mr. Magoo couldn’t even bring himself to expose Abby. and instead exposes players that have far more trade value. It’s yet another reminder that Mr. Magoo is in over his head.

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 10:02 AM ET

If this team lost Ericson or Ablekater, and gained cap space for a free agent, does that make us legit contender, or even an above middle of the pack team? No, this team has about a 4 year rebuild in front of it where the best hope is not free agency, but a home run in the drafting department, or grabbing another team’s prospect. To hit a home run or two, you need trips to the plate, and even then these do not materialize for 2-4 years.  So why in the hell does it make sense to give up those picks/prospects???

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 10:16 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

I meant to grab this gem…

Why didn’t Kenny use his abundance of picks to entice Vegas to rid us of someone like Abdelkader or Ericsson?

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 10:17 AM ET

Primis's avatar

I would imagine Sheahan and Helm will be too rich for Vegas’ blood,  They’ll be looking for more value, because I think they’ll be taking on Bobby Ryan’s contract and a couple others that are goign to be a huge chink of the cap.  I also think they’ll use more of their cap space on defense, so they won’t be seeking Sproul or Ouellett because they’ll have many better options and will spend more there.

Nosek, I’d worry a lot more.  And I know I previously said Frk should be OK, but having played around with mock expansion drafts I’m now more worried they might pick Frk (young, upside, inexpensive).

Just noticed that Chicago protected Jurco.  Wow

Posted by NEWing on 06/19/17 at 08:31 AM ET

They can do that because the guys they left unprotected instead…. well… they’re not in a big yank to keep them either.  I wouldn’t read much into it though.  CHI seems to be hoping, rather than really seeing anything yet.

Posted by Primis on 06/19/17 at 10:32 AM ET

Primis's avatar

The Wings are in a bad place right now, who they lose to Vegas is the least of their problems.

Posted by Steve1306 on 06/19/17 at 09:56 AM ET

This.

Some of this is because we’re bored and it’s the off-season, but at the end of the day there’s nothing Vegas is going to do that is going to mean much to DET’s future.

Posted by Primis on 06/19/17 at 10:36 AM ET

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If this team lost Ericson or Ablekater, and gained cap space for a free agent, does that make us legit contender, or even an above middle of the pack team?

I never claimed that this would.

No, this team has about a 4 year rebuild in front of it where the best hope is not free agency, but a home run in the drafting department, or grabbing another team’s prospect.

Again, I never said free agency was the answer. You do realize that ridding ourselves of say, Abby, opens up a roster spot for say a guy like Mantha or AA to permanently play in the top 6 and on the PP. It also opens up a roster spot for a guy like Bertuzzi to join the bottom 6 (Nosek takes Miller’s role). Inserting these young players into larger roles is a key part of our return to competitiveness.

Oh and what about that cap space. While you quickly assumed it was earmarked for some other lame UFA signing, perhaps think creatively. An extra $4.25M of cap space allows Mr. Magoo to accept an awful contract with a great young prospect or draft pick.

So let’s see how this works…

You surrender a 3rd rounder to Vegas to take Abby off our hands. Heck make it two 3rds. Then you turn around and get a 2nd rounder or a nice young player (think Terovainen) to take Dustin Brown or Marion Gaborik off of the Kings hands. They are desperate to shed salary.

But thanks for assuming my intention was to blow that cap space on Andrei Markov.

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 10:37 AM ET

hockeyfreak13's avatar

The Wings are in a bad place right now, who they lose to Vegas is the least of their problems.

Even if it is a little problem in the grand scheme of things, it is entirely preventable. I just want to stop the bleeding and not lose assets for nothing. I think that’s justified hand-wringing.

Posted by hockeyfreak13 from Grand Rapids on 06/19/17 at 10:43 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 10:37 AM ET

So you lose Abby to shed contract and open space, and then grab Dustin Brown? Do you read the hate you spew?

At the rate the cap increases, and bottom tier player salary is creeping up, in 4 years, Abby’s contract will average for a 3rd liner. I’m not saying the contract is ideal, nor I’m happy about it, but its not going to choke this team like other contracts in the league like Brown.

opens up a roster spot for say a guy like Mantha or AA to permanently play in the top 6 and on the PP

Breaking news, Mantha played most of the 16/17 season in the top 6, and Abby played 1/2 the season on the 3rd line, but let’s not get reality in the way of a good hatred spewing right? Speaking of PP Abby plays with his arse to the goalie, neither Mantha or AA should be in that role IMO, they should both be wall guys.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 10:46 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by hockeyfreak13 from Grand Rapids on 06/19/17 at 10:43 AM ET

Every NHL franchise will lose an asset for nothing, all of them, each one.

The wings have lost exactly 1 bottom six player for nothing in the last decade, Neistrasil, time will tell if he amounts to anything sustainable in the NHL.

Lot’s to beyatch and complain about in the Ken Holland department, but let’s not create issues we don’t have.

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 10:49 AM ET

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The only players on the Wings roster worth trading are guys we would never want them to trade.  I just don’t see them making an “impactful” trade with the guys exposed.  Mrazek clearly has the greatest perceived value but after the past season and half & his lack luster showing at the WC what’s the return?  He probably should have been protected over Howard but I don’t see it really making a difference.

Vegas isn’t going to want our bad contracts for the same reason we don’t.  Yes, they need to full cap space initially but they’re not going to want to be saddled to a guy like Abby for the balance of his contract.  Even if you clear cap space, who are you signing in free agency that’s going to move the needle?

Posted by Steve1306 on 06/19/17 at 10:54 AM ET

hockeyfreak13's avatar

Yes, they need to full cap space initially but they’re not going to want to be saddled to a guy like Abby for the balance of his contract.

Exactly. That’s why you expose players like these knowing that they won’t be taken. That’s what most are complaining about. Maybe Mrazek isn’t taken. But Howard certainly wouldn’t be.

Posted by hockeyfreak13 from Grand Rapids on 06/19/17 at 11:01 AM ET

Shanny_Fan's avatar

After playing around with mock drafts, my gut tells me it will be Razor or XO

Posted by Shanny_Fan on 06/19/17 at 11:33 AM ET

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The wings have lost exactly 1 bottom six player for nothing in the last decade, Neistrasil, time will tell if he amounts to anything sustainable in the NHL.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Hey Hey Hockeyfart on 06/19/17 at 10:49 AM ET

And how many players have we lost for almost nothing…Jarnkrok, Janmark, #19 overall pick, a handful of 2nds and 3rds, the 3rd we wasted on Sadowy, no return for Hudler and Filppula (but nobody trades pending UFAs if they are in a playoff spot because once you are in anything can happen right!)

Sorry, the asset management by Mr. Magoo borders on insanity. But yes, technically Nestrasil and Ferraro are not gamechangers. So it’s cool.

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 11:34 AM ET

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After playing around with mock drafts, my gut tells me it will be Razor or XO

I will stay with my initial guess and say Sheahan although I certainly did not expect Mrazek to be left unprotected.

Posted by VPalmer on 06/19/17 at 11:44 AM ET

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Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 11:34 AM ET

Man you like to make shit up to support your narrative. Fil clearly didn’t want to play for Babs anymore, that was obvious when he nixed the trade to Toronto this year. A third for Sadowy? You’re using this to support your argument? I hate these people that play their Xbox and think they can pilot a *#$%@& organization.

Posted by weswolverine on 06/19/17 at 11:51 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 11:34 AM ET

Jarnkrok, Janmark were trades, bad ones, but trades none the less, normally the team that acquires current roster talent, gives more up in the way of prospective talent, that’s how those trades go, I did not like either, though I thought Cole deal was ok, no defense of Legwand whatsoever.

But here you go again beyatching about the wrong thing, fatsavage uncontrolled uzi fire of hate, get a grip and aim man. 

Its not that we waived marginal NHL talent, or traded away some mid round picks, that happens every year in the NHL by every team, every forum has a fatsavage crying, the real problem is that our batting average in the draft and development from about 2008’ish to about 2012’ish was extremely poor, bunch of singles, no home runs.  Part of that was limited chances at the plate, success does that to you, but when they got there, they didn’t perform, and “they” is led by Ken Holland.

That on top of the contracts he handed out last year to helm, ddk abby and glenny, though each not the end of the world as HHHT makes them out to be, collectively terrible.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 11:54 AM ET

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So Murray why are you arguing then. We agree that his trades have been awful, his UFA signings have been pretty mediocre, the contracts that he has written have generally been terrible, and his draft record is mediocre at best. Even his draft strategy has been highly questionable. We knew Lidstrom, Rafalski, Chelios would eventually move on…yet aside from Kindl and Smith, we used most of our picks on a series of non-impact forwards like Ferraro, Jurco, Sheahan, and a host of other busts.

But hey he didn’t lose a bunch of NHL talent to waivers. So that’s a positive. Like how many GMs lose impact guys to waivers anyway? That’s a low bar. What we do know is that more teams put in a waiver claim for Nestrasil than any player in the last 20 years. Kinda shows Kenny had no pulse on the demand. When 8 or 9 teams are willing to claim a guy on waivers, surely he could have worked the phones to see if one of those clubs was willing to give up a 7th rounder for assurance to get their man. But maybe he tried right?

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 12:05 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

So Murray why are you arguing then.
Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 12:05 PM ET

To repeat what I said in the other thread…

The difference between me and you is that I don’t think he’s a bumbling idiot with no hockey acumen at all. He’s an average NHL executive at best.

To expand on that…

You’re over the top with your hate, many of you are to a level that’s stomach turning. Spoiled wings fans, who think Red Wings by crest alone should be a franchise immune to a salary structure system designed to bread mediocrity, punish teams for success, reward the losers.  You pile your hate on Holland, but ignore the mindset and direction of the check signer who shares incredibly in what will be a prolonged absence from contention.

Your posts of hate are misdirected, and often are based on the fact that Holland should have done this and not that from a COMPLETE Monday Morning QB standpoint. You slam him for every bad move, but give no credit for good moves made or not made in some cases. 

Holland would have to have been perfect, above and beyond a regular man in that GM chair for this team to continue to compete for cups, obviously he is not, nowhere close.  But the reality is, no GM is. They all make mistakes, some have all star rosters handed to them to soften these mistakes. Bowman, who HHHT drooled over for years, is proving to have taken a potential dynasty roster, and fumbled it.

 

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 12:17 PM ET

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Murray, I’m not a naive whiner who thinks we should have been a Cup contending team each and every year. I understand things go in cycles. I understand ownership was likely telling him to try and make another run. I get it.

But at the same time, the decision-making has been awful. Our franchise would be so much closer to returning to competitiveness if we had a GM that had even the slightest vision. As an example, go back to the 2016 trade deadline. We were a wildcard team and most certainly 1st round fodder. We had Helm and Quincey as UFAs. Yeah, yeah, playoff teams don’t sell UFAs. I’ve heard that over and over. But playoff teams also don’t typically have this abundance of depth that could absorb losing 2 regulars off the roster and not even miss a beat. At the time we had Marchenko sitting as the 7th guy, with Ouellet and Jensen at our disposal. Similarly we had Mantha sitting around in Grand Rapids (save me the story about Mantha is a winger and Helm is a center…we have enough versatality to slide Mantha into a top 6 or top 9 winger role, and slide a guy like Abby or Sheahan down the lineup). If that was too mind-blowing we also had Joakim Andersson who eventually made the playoff lineup.

So where was our GM to say, you know what team, neither Quincey or Helm should be in our long-term plans. We have internal replacements like Marchenko/Ouellet/Jensen and Mantha/Andersson who can step in. Since I know how to properly evaluate talent (haha) I’ve correctly concluded that this will not derail our season. Heck it might even spark us. So let’s do it.

Quincey gets traded for a 2nd or 3rd - that’s reasonable value given the prices at that deadline. Helm gets traded for something similar.

Boom. A proactive GM, with a vision, that finds the right balance between staying in the mix now, but stockpiling for the future. Instead we held onto both guys. Quincey was eventually a healthy scratch for some of the playoffs and was lost for nothing. Mantha was buried. And Helm earned a stupid contract extension.

But maybe I’m just a naive unrealistic whiner.

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 12:36 PM ET

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Just noticed that Chicago protected Jurco.  Wow

I was under the impression that CHI has a deal in place with LV that will move Kruger & Van Reimsdyk, so who they actually protected didn’t really matter.

Posted by EthrDemon on 06/19/17 at 12:40 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by fatsavage on 06/19/17 at 12:36 PM ET

Sounds easy on Monday at our desks right? Let’s consider a few things..

First, how do you know he didn’t take calls on those two, but didn’t get a return he wanted? We don’t.

Second, he was trying to keep Pavel from bolting on his contract, and d!cking the wings like he did.

Third, same year, another proactive GM who worked for the same owner was fired immediately after trading UFAs for a wealth of young talent,with his team not quite out, but likely not producing in the post season.  of course it was a mixture of things that caused the firing, but it was right after great trades. 

Lastly, if he did, we’d have 2-3 more picks/prospects, which may or may not have panned out, doesn’t guarantee anything.

Myself, I would’ve been happy with that move, again I’m a long game guy, I’m a fan, I would’ve traded Pavel and Kroner 5-6 years ago, but I’m not the GM answering to Ilitch with a yearly record to be accountable too. So again, Monday morning, easy call, at the time, its not a cut and dry no brainer with nothing else to think about and because he didn’t make it, it does not make him a senile irrational mini-mite hockey mom.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 06/19/17 at 01:10 PM ET

RWBill's avatar

You do realize that ridding ourselves of say, Abby, opens up a roster spot for say a guy like Mantha or AA to permanently play in the top 6 and on the PP.
—-
Not in the least.  They just have to earn it.  Abdelkader is not keeping anyone off the Top 6.  Blashill played Abdelkader in third and even fourth line mixes going down the last quarter of the season.  It’s wide open for anyone who can prove they can play against the NHL’s best, and this is important, on both ends of the ice.

Posted by RWBill on 06/19/17 at 09:06 PM ET

bigfrog's avatar

Just noticed that Chicago protected Jurco.  Wow

Hopefully it may be a sign of the Slackhawks demise? We can hope, can’t we? tongue laugh

Posted by bigfrog on 06/19/17 at 10:19 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.

 

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