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Defensive Questions

Helene St. James of the Detroit Free Press answered a few quesitons today.

One question was on drafting Cal Foote...

HSJ: My guess is the Wings take a defenseman in the first round, just as they did last year with Dennis Cholowski. Callan Foote, son former NHLer Adam Foote, has the appeal of size – at 18, he’s already 6-foot-4 and tops 210 pounds, and he shoots right. He had a stand-out 2016-17 with the Kelowna Rockets, with 57 points (51 assists) in 71 games, and can play in all situations.

But Juuso Valimaki also has good size at 6-foot-2, 204 pounds, and he’s another guy who is skilled with the puck. 

Then there’s Swedish defenseman Timothy Liljegren (6-foot, 190 pounds), also a right-handed shot. He’s an offensive defenseman who likes to have the puck, sees the ice well, and is a fluid skater – something that certainly will appeal to the Wings, probably more so than Foote.

2 more questions, one on Cam Fowler and the other on Joe Hickets...

Filed in: | The Malik Report | Permalink
 

Comments

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HSJ mentioning that the Wings will want to draft a d-man at #9. Mentions Foote, Liljegren and Valimaki. But then makes no mention of Makar. Good job.

In her answer on Fowler, she could have mentioned that despite all the glut of d-men, the Ducks will likely go 7-3-1. Otherwise they lose Rakell or Silverberg. Bieksa has to be protected. So you go Bieksa-Fowler-Lindholm (Montour and Theodore are exempt). That means BOTH Manson and Vatanen are free for the taking. There is your trade Kenny! Manson is 24. Vatanen is 25. Both shoot right. Not rocket science. Find out what it takes to acquire one of them. Get creative.

Or just wait until 1-2 weeks before the draft and start making some calls. That sounds like a winning approach.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 01:26 PM ET

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Bieksa has to be protected.

He does, but every thing I’ve read about this suggests that they will figure out a way to make him waive.  They will have to trade Vatanen (or another D-man) for a top 6 F and then will be able to go 7-3-1.

Forwards:
Ryan Getzlaf
Corey Perry
Ryan Kesler
Rickard Rakell
Jakob Silfverberg
Andrew Cogliano
Top 6 Winger from offseason trade

Defense:
Hampus Lindholm
Cam Fowler
Josh Manson

Goalie:
John Gibson

Source:

http://www.anaheimcalling.com/2017/3/28/15097150/anaheim-ducks-expansion-draft-talk

Posted by A II R on 05/17/17 at 01:33 PM ET

dreamsofhope's avatar

HSJ mentioning that the Wings will want to draft a d-man at #9. Mentions Foote, Liljegren and Valimaki. But then makes no mention of Makar. Good job.

In her answer on Fowler, she could have mentioned that despite all the glut of d-men, the Ducks will likely go 7-3-1. Otherwise they lose Rakell or Silverberg. Bieksa has to be protected. So you go Bieksa-Fowler-Lindholm (Montour and Theodore are exempt). That means BOTH Manson and Vatanen are free for the taking. There is your trade Kenny! Manson is 24. Vatanen is 25. Both shoot right. Not rocket science. Find out what it takes to acquire one of them. Get creative.

I’m not trying to stir up controversy, but it seems on every thread you critique HSJ. It’s abundantly clear you don’t like her, but why not write this stuff on the freep website?

I actually really liked your analysis on the Ducks. It was helpful and informative. But there’s nothing anyone around here can do to change the way HSJ writes or what she chooses to write about. If your goal is just to be heard, you’ve absolutely been heard. If your goal is some sort of change on HSJ’s part, I’d say you’re barking up the wrong tree. However, your analysis on the Ducks was super helpful, sincerely.

Posted by dreamsofhope from Colorado on 05/17/17 at 01:43 PM ET

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Bieksa has to be protected.

He does, but every thing I’ve read about this suggests that they will figure out a way to make him waive.  They will have to trade Vatanen (or another D-man) for a top 6 F and then will be able to go 7-3-1.

That is a huge assumption that Bieksa will waive. What if he doesn’t want to uproot his family and move to Vegas? If Bieksa exercises the right he has earned, then Manson and Vatanen are on the block. This is what Kenny should be exploiting. And even if Bieksa waives, you can still acquire Vatanen for cheap. He’s not big. But he’s a nice 2nd pairing guy that can move the puck and QB a PP.

P.S. Vermette also has a NMC so he’s their 7th guy. There is also Eaves if he happens to sign before the draft.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 01:47 PM ET

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P.S. Vermette also has a NMC so he’s their 7th guy.

If you read the piece I linked, Vermette has a limited NMC that isn’t valid for the expansion draft. He can be exposed.

Bieska waives and then Anaheim makes sure Vegas doesn’t pick him. They’ll send a draft pick if they have to - much better than losing a young stud like Silf or Rakell for nothing. Also, why the hell would Vegas want Bieksa??

They can leave Eaves unprotected until after the expansion draft. If Vegas selects him, he doesn’t have to sign with them.

Posted by A II R on 05/17/17 at 01:55 PM ET

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Mentions Foote, Liljegren and Valimaki. But then makes no mention of Makar. Good job.

Maybe because Makar should be gone before we pick.

Posted by VPalmer on 05/17/17 at 02:20 PM ET

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No I didn’t read the link. I guess they are safe with Vermette then.

Regardless, Ducks MUST go 7-3-1 so they don’t expose Silverberg or Rakell. There is zero chance that either of those guys are left exposed. At no point did I suggest this was possible. They are going 7-3-1 without a doubt.

Although Vegas likely would have no interest in Bieksa, you can’t blame the player for exercising his own right to be protected. If he does, then the list is: Bieksa-Fowler-Lindholm…leaving Manson and Vatanen exposed, or available via trade.

If Bieksa cooperates then it’s Fowler-Lindholm-and either Manson/Vatanen. That leaves either Manson/Vatanen exposed.

So in either scenario, the Ducks are about to lose a 24/25 year old RHD. They can try and entice Vegas with extra assets to lay off these guys. Or they can accept an offer from Kenny to acquire them. Assuming he’s not asleep at the wheel again.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 02:22 PM ET

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Mentions Foote, Liljegren and Valimaki. But then makes no mention of Makar. Good job.

Maybe because Makar should be gone before we pick.

Posted by VPalmer on 05/17/17 at 03:20 PM ET

So omit Makar because he might be gone at #9, but include Liljegren because it’s assured he’ll be there. A more well-thought out response would mention both of them.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 02:24 PM ET

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Hilarious….acquire him on the cheap.  Right.  Because all 30 other teams won’t want to acquire vatanen or any guys teams are having to figure out what to do, or Ana can’t offer something to Vegas not to take them.  Clearly Holland absolutely sucks at his job if he doesn’t get one.

Posted by DieByTheWing on 05/17/17 at 02:33 PM ET

WingedRider's avatar

As this is a Wings blog, Freidman has suggested the Wings might trade up, I doubt it and it is a scary thought BUT a good way to dump a High Cap hit , Nyquist preferably in my books.

Draft a big young RH DMan , jump into the bidding war for Shattenkirk (RH Dman), dump another bad Cap hit like Helm, TJ Oshie is only 30 and has good Offensive skills.

Wings need some depth at D, not sure Hicketts would survive the Playoffs (Big Boys Hockey).

Using good Hockey sense KH should get younger and pick higher next year but his over paid under skilled boys are his buds.

His protected list should not include Nyqusit and not Leave off Nosek. The Cap needs to be fixed somehow. Hawks are $3M over the cap, Bowmans will get them under.

Bieska should retire, Ducks are doing just fine without him.

Now I will return to the real world of KH.

Posted by WingedRider from Saskatoon, SK on 05/17/17 at 02:41 PM ET

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Hilarious….acquire him on the cheap.  Right.  Because all 30 other teams won’t want to acquire vatanen or any guys teams are having to figure out what to do, or Ana can’t offer something to Vegas not to take them.  Clearly Holland absolutely sucks at his job if he doesn’t get one.

Posted by DieByTheWing on 05/17/17 at 03:33 PM ET

Please list the teams that can acquire Vatenen before the expansion draft, protect him, and not have to worry about losing a comparable asset? That eliminates the vast majority of teams. I can start listing teams that can’t acquire Vatanen…Hawks already have 3 d-men that must be protected, Nashville have problems of their own. So does Minny. Should Calgary get Vatanen and then expose either Giordano, Hamilton, or Brodie? I could go on. The list of suitors is much smaller than you think.

Sure, Anaheim can offer say a 3rd rounder to lay off Vatanen, but what if Vegas says no. We want a 2nd. Wait, make that two 2nds. Hmm, meanwhile Kenny is offering two 2nds. If you are Anaheim, do you sacrifice two 2nds just to keep the guy, or do you flip him for an extra two 2nds and replace him with someone else? At the right price, he can be easily had. And we’re one of the few teams that can add him, protect him, and not worry about losing a quality asset.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 02:47 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

That means BOTH Manson and Vatanen are free for the taking
Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 02:26 PM ET

Free? For someone who bags on people for accuracy, interesting use of words. 

I agree that deals will be available, but a contending team like the Ducks may, and I say may,  also not want to gut their defense for a few picks to avoid losing one guy. 

They may offer up a desireable forward instead, offer picks to LV, or just opt to keep them both, expose both, so they know 1 of them will be back, and they will still have a solid 1-2-3 punch, which might be more important to them considering the window where Getzlaf and to some extent Perry are productive players is only open for a bit longer.  Not optimal long term but windows are only open for so long in a cap sport. 

 

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 05/17/17 at 03:05 PM ET

hockeyfreak13's avatar

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 03:24 PM ET

You are preaching to the choir. I think I can safely say that most people that are reading comments on sites like these are doing so because the beat writers don’t go in-depth enough on certain topics. At least that’s why I’m here.

Posted by hockeyfreak13 from Grand Rapids on 05/17/17 at 03:24 PM ET

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Clearly the word free means they are on the block. Nowhere else in my posts did I suggest that either player can be acquired for nothing in return.

How does Anaheim trading a Vatenen or Manson to Detroit for draft picks “gut their defense” whereas your strategy of exposing both guys and losing one of them not do the same thing. In both cases, a single d-man is gone. But in the trade scenario they are getting assets in return.

The more applicable reference to “gutting your team” is meeting the Vegas ransom demands. If they play hardball and demand some high draft picks or prospects in order to overlook Manson/Vatanen, then that’s where Anaheim risks gutting their team. Shall we trade away a kid like Kase, and a couple of 2nd round picks just to keep Vatanen? Is this Vegas asking price getting silly now? Yeah, let’s just trade him to Detroit. We’ll take back a couple of 2nd round picks. Now we won’t lose a singificant piece in this expansion draft. We’re down Vatanen. But we have a couple of extra assets from Detroit. Let’s go out and sign a 5/6 UFA d-man to plug the hole and aim to contend yet again.

Gutting the team. LOL

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 03:27 PM ET

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jump into the bidding war for Shattenkirk

I would be very much against it. Shat is #3-4 dman and a PP specialist. Let somebody else overpay him for 6 years at $6+ mil. We have too many bad contracts as it is.

Posted by VPalmer on 05/17/17 at 03:29 PM ET

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Another team that we should be looking to trade with is Minnesota with Niederreiter and Dumba possibly on the move.
Read this today on some website:
There’s also been speculation about defenseman Matt Dumba, and for good reason. If the Wild only protect three defensemen, Ryan Suter and Jared Spurgeon will be safe for sure, leaving only one spot for Dumba, Jonas Brodin, Marco Scandella, and a few others.

Up front, Minnesota is obligated to protect Mikko Koivu, Zach Parise, and Jason Pominville due to their no-movement clauses, and they won’t want to lose Mikael Granlund, Charlie Coyle, Eric Staal, or Jason Zucker.

Posted by VPalmer on 05/17/17 at 03:37 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 04:27 PM ET

Oh I see you struggle with math, let me help you out.

In your scenario, the Ducks trade 1 dman to the wings, and likely lose the other in the expansion draft, or they trade him too.  So they lose 2 dman, or 1/3 of their defense off a team that is contending for a cup, being led by a 32 year old star for picks that won’t be on their roster until Getzlafs salary is more than his production.

What I laid out, limits the loss to one dman. and they could use picks/prospects to protect the one they want to keep.

Now I never said it was the way to go, what I would do, nor optimal in the long run, but neither is acquiring Shattenkirk and Smith for a bunch of picks and losing in the 2nd round. GMs take shots when they think their window is open and now, and will continue to do so, and the Ducks window is open for only a short window, GMs care much less about 5 years from now.

I appreciate you quoting me correctly “defense”, and beefing it up to the entire team later

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 05/17/17 at 03:46 PM ET

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Anaheim, Nashville, Minnesota, Winnipeg, Columbus are all teams at risk of losing a very useful defensemen.
But Kenny said he’s going to be making calls 1-2 weeks before the expansion draft. I’m sure that’s plenty of time for him to figure out a deal…

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 03:48 PM ET

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Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 04:27 PM ET

Oh I see you struggle with math, let me help you out.

In your scenario, the Ducks trade 1 dman to the wings, and likely lose the other in the expansion draft, or they trade him too.  So they lose 2 dman, or 1/3 of their defense off a team that is contending for a cup, being led by a 32 year old star for picks that won’t be on their roster until Getzlafs salary is more than his production.
Posted by MurrayChadwick from Hey Hey Hockeyfart on 05/17/17 at 04:46 PM ET

Umm, others have argued that Bieksa will waive his NMC. So I’ve assumed that. This means the Ducks will protect their 7 stud forwards. Then they’ll protect Fowler-Lindholm-and either Manson or Vatanen. Let’s say they protect Manson. So that means Vatanen is exposed in the expansion draft, along with a bunch of other depth players that they won’t be worried about losing.

So in this scenario, it’s almost a certainty that Vegas chooses Vatanen. Unless the Ducks pay the ransom price to Vegas to leave him alone. So Vatanen is gone. Not sure why you think another d-man is getting lost in this scenario…unless you are concerned about losing Korbinian Holzer or Simon Depres (gutted!).

So if your choices are:
1) Lose Vatanen to Vegas
2) Pay a potentially steep price to Vegas to leave Vatanen alone
3) Trade Vatanen to another team and recover some extra draft picks or young prospects

Depending on the details of options 2 and 3, they might opt for option 3. But regardless, I’m counting
1 regular d-man lost. Thanks for the math help though.

Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 03:57 PM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Umm, others have argued that Bieksa will waive his NMC. So I’ve assumed that.
Posted by fatsavage on 05/17/17 at 04:57 PM ET

Haha this is choice, you can’t make this up because its all in the same thread.  You argue with others that he won’t waive his NMC, and now that you’ve been called out, you’ve assumed it? 

You sir have a future in politics.

Irrespective of your flip flop, my original post that you LOL’ed about did not make that assumption, it made the same argument of guarantying they retain 1 by risking one, instead of losing both.

Posted by MurrayChadwick from Holland Hate Hyperbole Town (HHHT) on 05/17/17 at 07:36 PM ET

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Shattenkirk??? Yuck, for the $7 + mil he’s gonna demand??? Fúck that, let someone else over pay for him. Did you watch any of the Caps playoff series? He was probably the 4th best until Alzner came back, I’d then drop him to 5th. His gap control was horrible, bad positioning, weak in the corners and easily man-handled near his own crease. Now that i explained that, I’ve realized he fits right in with our current D-corp. Hopefully, Kenny drops $8 mil a year for 7 years on him *fart noises*...

Posted by benzanato on 05/17/17 at 11:25 PM ET

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[quote jump into the bidding war for Shattenkirk ]

That’s not how you fix the problem. That’s how you make it worse. If the Wings didn’t already have a bunch of bad contracts, they could take that risk, but they have several.

Shattenkirk is bound to get overpaid and over-termed, It happens every year and almost never works out. Shattenkirk really isn’t the top pair guy people will be paying for. How bad is it going to look in 3-4 years when he is playing bottom pair at $6M+ for a few more seasons?

 

Posted by evileye on 05/18/17 at 08:54 AM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.

 

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