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Buyer, Seller Or Stay The Course For The Detroit Red Wings?

from Ansar Khan of Mlive,

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland indicated on Wednesday that nothing is brewing, so it doesn’t appear as if the club will make a move anytime soon.

“The phone is ringing a little bit; I’m calling a little bit,” Holland said. “With the Olympic break coming, I don’t sense a lot of activity.

“I talked to a few managers the last few days; there’s not much going on.”

The Red Wings are on the fringe of a playoff position in the Eastern Conference, one of several teams competing for two wild-card spots. They could be anywhere from seventh to 13th in the conference depending on the day’s results. They have five games until the Olympic break and three more after the break before the trading deadline.

“We have to play our way into being a buyer,” Holland said. “There’s no use spending assets unless we play our way into a buyer position.”

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Comments

Hank1974's avatar

If it were up to me, I’d like it if they sold.

See if they can get something, ANYTHING, for Bert, Sammy, Cleary or even Franzen.

It’s our kids that are winning games for us, not those guys. They contribute almost nothing.

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 10:33 AM ET

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See if they can get something, ANYTHING, for Bert, Sammy, Cleary or even Franzen.

Pipe dream…but I agree.

The reality is that we all know the answer to this question already…Stay the course.

“I talked to a few managers the last few days; there’s not much going on.”

Bullsh*t.

Posted by godblender on 01/30/14 at 10:47 AM ET

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If it were up to me, I’d like it if they sold.

See if they can get something, ANYTHING, for Bert, Sammy, Cleary or even Franzen.

It’s our kids that are winning games for us, not those guys. They contribute almost nothing.

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 09:33 AM ET

You’re not going to get anything for Bert, Sammy or Cleary. Sammy just went thru waivers and obviously no one wanted him.

Translation of Holland’s comments is “stand pat”.

Posted by George0211 on 01/30/14 at 10:49 AM ET

Hank1974's avatar

Pipe dream…but I agree.

I know. But a guy can dream can’t he? wink

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 10:50 AM ET

Hank1974's avatar

George0211, I wish the NHL still had 10 rounds in the draft so we could get a 10th for all of those guys (and Tootoo), minus Franzen.

I figure Franzen’s worth at least a 3rd round pick. wink

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 10:51 AM ET

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George0211, I wish the NHL still had 10 rounds in the draft so we could get a 10th for all of those guys (and Tootoo), minus Franzen.

I figure Franzen’s worth at least a 3rd round pick.

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 09:51 AM ET

As frustrating as Franzen can be, he is still an almost 20-25 goal scorer for under 4mil a year. Why get rid of him?

Posted by George0211 on 01/30/14 at 10:53 AM ET

Hank1974's avatar

As frustrating as Franzen can be, he is still an almost 20-25 goal scorer for under 4mil a year. Why get rid of him?

He’s always injured and he goes for long, long stretches between goals some times.

I was kidding when I said we could get a 3rd-round pick for him. I actually think we could get a lot more and I’d like the Wings to pursue that.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I’d love to see the Wings begin a complete rebuild.
No more old vets. Make room so guys like Jurco and Sheahan are full-time NHLers.

I’d even be inclined to see what they could fetch for Datsyuk - but ONLY if it was a deal that included a budding, or current superstar under the age of 25.

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 10:58 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

The reality is staying the course. It makes no sense to be buyers, and I’m not sure who they can realistically sell.

I could see them being able to dump Bert and Cleary, but not for anything more than the little bit of salary relief and an AHL player or long-shot pick. And even then, they are on NTCs of some sort. Who wants Sammy for that number? Who wants an injured Franzen for his streakiness and contract length?

D-men are always in demand. Maybe you could shop Quincey and find a mid-round pick. But is that really even worth it? Lashoff has already been put in a role too prominent for him to be effective. Wouldn’t be bad to rotate in some of the D prospects and see what you have, but this is basically an admission that the playoffs don’t matter this year. I’m okay with that, but are the likes of Z, Pav, Alfredsson, Kronwall, etc. okay with that?

If Franzen gets healthy he could be a nice option in the offseason for a team looking for a veteran winger with a decent cap number that is willing to take a little risk. Especially with the cap likely to get a nice bump. But that means the Wings will have to be willing to sell low, basically making the move to open up cap space for their own flexibility, not to actually get much in return.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 01/30/14 at 11:03 AM ET

WingsFanInBeanLand's avatar

When our injured guys come back it’ll be just like trade deadline acquisitions.

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from Where the GM likes his team. on 01/30/14 at 11:10 AM ET

Avatar

When the kids are sent back to Grand Rapids it will be just like a trade deadline acquisition for the Griffins playoff run.

Posted by lancer on 01/30/14 at 11:15 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

He’s always injured and he goes for long, long stretches between goals some times.

I was kidding when I said we could get a 3rd-round pick for him. I actually think we could get a lot more and I’d like the Wings to pursue that.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I’d love to see the Wings begin a complete rebuild.
No more old vets. Make room so guys like Jurco and Sheahan are full-time NHLers.

I’d even be inclined to see what they could fetch for Datsyuk - but ONLY if it was a deal that included a budding, or current superstar under the age of 25.

Posted by Hank1974 on 01/30/14 at 09:58 AM ET

You are heavily over-valuing both Franzen and Datsyuk.

Franzen has had nagging brain injuries, is streaky when healthy, and even if he gets healthy and stays that way the rest of his career, is 34 with a long-term contract. That’s not an in-season acquisition. At best, you maybe find a team with an appetite for risk, need for a veteran forward with potential, and cap space to burn when the cap goes up, and get something mediocre for Franzen. What you get in return for trading Franzen is more cap flexibility, and out from the long-term salary commitment. That alone is enough to where I don’t see how anything better than a 3rd round pick would be worthwhile for another team to do.

The exception is if you stumble across the rare one-for-one hockey trade, where a team maybe has a player with similar issues that the Wings have with Franzen, so they try to old “change of scenery” trade.

Datsyuk is great, no doubt about it, but his future value is low. He’s at the end of his career. Why on earth would anyone trade a “budding or current superstar under the age of 25” for a player that is entirely on the decline (not to say he isn’t still one of the best overall players in the game)? I think some high picks and/or top prospects would be a legitimate expectation. But when you say “budding or current superstar under 25” I think of guys like John Tavares or one of the kids in Edmonton, or rookies like MacKinnon or Jones. Only way you get a player like this for Datsyuk is if they are already on a stacked team, said stacked team has cap space, and Datsyuk’s two-way game fills a big need for a serious Cup run. Show me a team that fits…

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 01/30/14 at 11:16 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

When the kids are sent back to Grand Rapids it will be just like a trade deadline acquisition for the Griffins playoff run.

Posted by lancer on 01/30/14 at 10:15 AM ET

Well, the Griffs are much more likely to win the AHL title than the Wings the NHL, so maybe not a bad idea.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 01/30/14 at 11:16 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

It’s our kids that are winning games for us, not those guys

Not sure if you’ve noticed this, but our kids haven’t been winning a lot of games for us, and Franzen is completely misplaced on this list.

Johan Franzen is tied for the team lead in game-winning goals. Tomas Tatar and Gustav Nyquist have now spent more time on the power play than Franzen and when you combine their goal totals with the man advantage, they still have fewer than Mule does.

Sure, if you could trade Datsyuk for essentially a younger Datsyuk, you should probably do that. How many teams have this trade to make?

Franzen and Datsyuk (or Zetterberg) aren’t in the way of guys like Sheahan and Jurco being regulars. In fact, they’re complementary pieces to a rebuild because guys like Sheahan and Jurco are better served to not have to be counted on to play top line minutes; they’re better served learning under the veterans.

Guys like Eaves, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, and Cleary are in the way.  Problem is that nobody else wants those guys, not even for “future considerations.”

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/30/14 at 11:19 AM ET

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He’s always injured

Aside from this season and 2009-10 he misses less than 8 games a year on average.

Posted by Garth on 01/30/14 at 11:20 AM ET

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“I talked to a few managers the last few days; there’s not much going on.”
Bullsh*t.

I absolutely believe him.

From Holland’s perspective -in which, if he is a buyer, he has to convince (for the sake of argument) Glen Sather to take back $4.275M in Detroit’s garbage contracts if he wants to land Ryan Callahan- I’m sure there really is zero going on, besides GMs laughing hysterically before hanging up the phone.

Posted by Garth on 01/30/14 at 11:40 AM ET

MurrayChadwick's avatar

Nobody wants our old dead farts, the reality is, some youth will likely be moved no matter how the season plays out, we have too much for a change.  Holland will likely hold on to them all, in his reluctance to turn 2-3 middling assets into a prime asset.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we traded a DMan regardless of what we do, thinking Lasher and Kindl are candidates for sure, or some of our prospects.  We have a lot of defensive depth waiting to move in, and you have to think that the Wings will again try to sign a true top 3 dman in the offseason. If we go south, we would certainly move Quincey, he’s a pending UFA, no reason to keep him around.  Kronner and Danny DK are staying, Ericson’s deal is too go to trade, everyone else is and should be in play. 

At the forward position, we have six centers, Dats, Weiss, Helm, Jokim, Sheehan, Glenny, don’t be surprised if Jokim is shopped for something decent in return, though I would consider buying out Weiss instead.

Posted by MurrayChadwick on 01/30/14 at 11:59 AM ET

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I’d be fine with them standing pat, which is good because that’s pretty much the only option.  They have nobody worth selling and they have no cap space to add salary (unless someone gets shut down for the season).

If they can get something for Bert, Eaves, Quincey, Cleary or Samuelsson then fine, but if not, then seeing them walk out the door in July would be fine.

Posted by Garth on 01/30/14 at 11:59 AM ET

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They need to move some prospects as well.  There is no way they can keep them all at this point.  There is still too many prospects and too few spots available.  They have guys like Ferraro and Callahan who are at the end of their options, what happens with those guys?  Lose them for nothing to then try and acquire them for a 1st round draft pick a few years later?  Holland for once needs to be proactive.

Posted by bababooey on 01/30/14 at 12:46 PM ET

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Holland for once needs to be proactive.

There are two ways he can go.  He can try to deal them for picks and/or other prospects at the deadline, in which case he can’t take any NHL salary in return, or he can try to put together a package of picks and prospects to make a trade in the off-season.

At this point, I think I would prefer the latter.

Posted by Garth on 01/30/14 at 12:57 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

“We like our kids,” Holland said. “I don’t know that there’s players available on the market that are better than the kids we got.”

Hmmm…. a while back they were kids. Then a couple days ago they were men and the kids were… ummm…. somebody else. Now they’re kids again. I think Holland should run for office.

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 01/30/14 at 03:22 PM ET

Vladimir16's avatar

When the kids are sent back to Grand Rapids it will be just like a trade deadline acquisition for the Griffins playoff run.
   
    Posted by
     
    lancer
     
      on 01/30/14 at 10:15 AM ET

Hahaha….love it! Go Griffins!

Posted by Vladimir16 from Grand River Valley on 01/30/14 at 03:23 PM ET

Primis's avatar

SELL LIST
———————-
Dan Cleary
Todd Bertuzzi
Brendan Smith
Kyle Quincey
Jakub Kindl
Mikael Samuelsson (if anyone is dumb enough to)
Jordin Tootoo
Jonas Gustavsson (simply because his value may be at its high now)
Cory Emmerton (like him, but he’s losing the war)

Could do worse than trading Lashoff too but, I like him.

Not saying sell them ALL, but those are all guys that should be considered seriously if something comes along.  Any of them should be seriously considered.

If a name isn’t on that list, then no they shouldn’t even be considered.

Posted by Primis on 01/30/14 at 04:21 PM ET

bleep bloop's avatar

Primis, of those guys, only Brendan Smith, Jakub Kindl, Jordin Tootoo, and Cory Emmerton are not UFAs after this season. So someone would have to be really desperate to want to take on a short term contract with the other guys (though Gustavsson would be possible for a team in the same boat as the Red Wings if he were better in shootouts and didn’t get hurt every other week, but then he wouldn’t be on your list). Smith and Kindl are possibilities for interest, but no one would trade for Emmerton since he hasn’t established himself well enough and is likely to be waived shortly.

Posted by bleep bloop on 01/30/14 at 07:01 PM ET

Figaro's avatar

“We like our kids,” Holland said

“We like our team” Holland says…

He’s simply recycling last year’s material…

Posted by Figaro from Los Alamos, NM on 01/30/14 at 08:32 PM ET

WingFanFormerlyInLA's avatar

For those that want to trade our garbage, no team will take it, so keep dreaming.  Wings won’t make any moves as Holland refuses to trade any younger players and they don’t have any room to take on any salary. 

The smart move would be to move a couple younger players (think Kindl or Lashoff) a prospect and a throw in for salary (such as Tootoo) for a top 6 forward that is a pending UFA.  But that absolutetly won’t happen. 

Bear in mind, Holland really doesn’t make shrewd trades, he generally gives up a ton for a known quantity.

Posted by WingFanFormerlyInLA on 01/30/14 at 11:45 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

Franzen’s stats are deceptive. He’s a 20 goal scorer, but MOST of his goals are meaningless. He pots the third goal in a 3-1 game, but RARELY scores first, ties it up or gets the GWG. Since his knee injury, he’s not been the same player. He seems slower and more hesitant. In 2008, he looked like he could be a potential hall of famer. Now that seems so long ago that I wonder what he can do (besides Ram Truck commercials).

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 01/31/14 at 12:50 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

Cleary and Sammy are gone at the end of the season, with the Wings retaining one cap compliance buyout before the cap shoots up next year. I suspect they’ll let those two go, possibly buy out a vet (Franzen is unlikely) and sign a big FA to replace them as a top 6. They should focus on getting a first pair defenseman, but won’t likely want to spend what it would cost.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 01/31/14 at 12:52 PM ET

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Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 01/31/14 at 11:52 AM ET

I think Bert is gone too, I hope, and I think Tootoo gets bought out.

My hope is they sign a top-six forward and put together a package to trade for a top-three defenseman.

Posted by Garth on 01/31/14 at 01:01 PM ET

SK77's avatar

My hope is they sign a top-six forward and put together a package to trade for a top-three defenseman.

Posted by Garth on 01/31/14 at 12:01 PM ET

So if they resign Alfredsson & Quincey you’ll be pretty happy, no?

Bertuzzi and Eaves definitely seem like they’re gone. Depending on Franzen’s health and how that all plays out maybe they end up using their final buyout on him instead of Tootoo? Doesn’t seem too bad keeping Tootoo’s deadweight at $1.9mil for one more year if necessary.

Posted by SK77 on 01/31/14 at 01:09 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

The “experts” have repeatedly stated that of all the Wings’ unrestricted free agents-to-be (Alfredsson, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Eaves, Gustavsson, Quincey, Samuelsson), only Alfredsson is likely to be invited back, though Jonas Gustavsson’s play may or may not mean one more year in the AHL for Petr Mrazek. Take that for what you will.

I don’t think that the team’s going to buy out Franzen because Holland and Babcock have repeatedly stated that at his cap hit, despite the real-world expense, the Wings are getting solid bang for their buck (though not nearly as much as you or I would have hoped) from Franzen.

The team does have Tootoo to take care of in terms of getting him moved or buying him out, and I don’t think that they’ll give Emmerton a qualifying offer.

With the cap bouncing back up to $70-ish million, the Wings will have some money to spend, though at present, it appears that seeing Sheahan, Glendening, possibly Ferraro or Jurco, possibly Almquist and possibly Ouellet at the NHL level may constitute the vast majority of the Wings’ changes.

I still believe that the team needs another top-four defenseman and a net-front presence, but Capgeek reminds us that Sheahan, Tatar, Glendening and DeKeyser will be restricted free agents, and DeKeyser at least is due a significant raise over his $925K cap hit. We may end up seeing internal promotions and re-signings take up a big chunk of the team’s cap space spent.

I’d love to see the Wings move aggressively to bolster the roster this summer, but the free agent class is kind of middling.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 01/31/14 at 03:22 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.