Kukla's Korner

The Malik Report

An open letter to Ken Holland re: re-signing Kyle Quincey and Daniel Cleary

Updated 3x at 9:10 PM:

Dear Ken Holland,

On behalf of my fellow Wings fans, we've had it. We are fed up, we are fed up with you, and we are angry. Why?

Because the concept of loyalty to players and alumni has, in our eyes, clouded the Red Wings management's judgment.

Spending the kind of money that a statistically superior, younger and right-shooting defenseman in Anton Stralman got from the Tampa Bay Lightning to re-sign Kyle Quincey was bad enough to "compromise" with a "known quantity." But the Daniel Cleary signing (a one-way deal, no less)?

It's ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

I don't care about the fact that Cleary's sacrificed, on behalf of the team, feeling in parts of his mouth, his knees, his groin and so many other parts of his body that will not function like an average human being's after he is done playing. I don't care about the fact that, if the Free Press's Helene St. James is to be believed, Cleary left $6 million worth of Philadelphia Flyers money "on the table." I don't care about the fact that he's a "good guy in the room."

I care about the fact that Riley Sheahan, Tomas Tatar, Luke Glendening, and the player most likely to end up in Grand Rapids should Mr. $1.5 million one-way contract and $1 million in bonuses make the team--Tomas Jurco--TOOK CLEARY'S JOB, and those of Mikael Samuelsson, Jordin Tootoo, Todd Bertuzzi and Cory Emmerton,  last year based upon their play on the ice in comparison to Cleary's when he was healthy. Those players earned their spots on the team, and they may end up spending time in the press box for Cleary's sake.

Cleary's now your 14th forward. If you bring Daniel Alfredsson back, your team will have 15 forwards, and as such...

Tomas Jurco may be certain to be "Nyquist'd" after you take care of re-signing players who actually contributed to the team in the aforementioned Tatar and Danny DeKeyser due to cap issues--and if you recall, Mr. Holland, a certain Gustav Nyquist, who ended up leading the team in goal-scoring, was sent to Grand Rapids despite earning a spot on the team in training camp, for Daniel Cleary's sake--and because the still-waiver-exempt Jurco can, like Nyquist, be demoted without clearing waivers.

Landon Ferraro and Mitchell Callahan may very well have no chance whatsoever to make the team now, and you may lose Ferraro, a speedy 3rd or 4th-line winger with offensive upside, and Callahan, a heart-and-soul player who's gritty and superb defensively--because you'll probably have to waive them to make sure that Daniel Cleary has a spot on the opening-night roster.

[quick edit: OH YEAH AND WHAT THE FACK ABOUT THAT ANTHONY MANTHA KID? GRAND RAPIDS IT IS, WOO! /end edit]

Red Wings fans can understand why you're hoping to hold open some money for Daniel Alfredsson. Despite his status as a 41-year-old who had some chronic groin and back issues last year, he co-led the team in scoring while being a "good guy in the room," a member of the leadership group and a leader on the ice and on the bench. Alfredsson had 18 goals, 31 assists and 49 points in 68 games played.

Cleary played in 52 games. He registered 4 goals, 4 assists, 8 points, and a team-second-worst -11.

Over the past two seasons and 100 regular-season games, Cleary has posted a total of 23 points and finished at -17.

Last season, Riley Sheahan, a rookie, had 9 goals, 15 assists and 24 points in 42 games, finishing a +8 in his rookie season.

Last season, Tomas Tatar, who began the season watching Cleary, Samuelsson, Tootoo, Emmerton and Bertuzzi play, posted 19 goals, 20 assists and 39 points in 73 games, finishing at +12 in his first full season with the team. That's pretty dang close to the 20-goal threshold that you say is so very important in terms of finding players who can score at an essential level.

Last season, Tomas Jurco had 8 goals, 7 assists and 15 points in 36 games, finishing even in his rookie season.

Those three players had an incredibly difficult playoff run against Boston, but the Red Wings wouldn't have made the playoffs without the contributions of "Riley and the Slovaks."

Last season, Luke Glendening, whose waiver-exemption your coach chose to exhaust, had 1 goal, 6 assists and 7 points in 56 games, finishing at -8 as a rookie. Glendening took 52 games to score his first goal, but he nearly out-produced Cleary, and he was far more valuable to the team.

Three years ago, you told your "special assistant," Kris Draper, that he would have to accept a two-way contract and essentially try out for the team if he wanted to continue playing hockey for the Detroit Red Wings, after Draper had given the team 1,137 games of NHL service.

Four years ago, you told Kirk Maltby, who played 908 games for your team, the same circumstances would apply.

Why is Cleary a special case? Why couldn't he be told to earn spot on the team like Ferraro, Callahan, Jurco, or Maltby or Draper before him?

This summer, after having struck out on Dan Boyle, Matt Niskanen, Stralman and Tom Gilbert, you've given Kyle Quincey 2 years and $8.5 million...

And this summer, you've given what will be a total of $2.5 million to Daniel Cleary for loyalty's sake when there are 28 free agent forwards available who posted more than Cleary's 8 points--excluding Todd Bertuzzi and Daniel Alfredsson, who make it a total of 30 available players who out-scored Cleary.

Cleary's given his heart and soul to the team, and he's sacrificed his body repeatedly, but Cleary's simply not been a useful player over the past two seasons. He hasn't earned his spot on the team based upon his play on the ice.

But he's been given a contract based upon money the Philadelphia Flyers may or may not have offered him--if you are not aware, there are several reports that the Flyers were in fact only willing to give Cleary a pro try-out contract, and nothing more, and those reports came from journalists who know much more about the inner workings of the Flyers than anyone in Detroit does--and he will probably be given a spot on the roster by your coach because "he's a good team guy."

Probably over Tomas Jurco, Luke Glendening, Landon Ferraro or Mitchell Callahan, even if they've earned their spots on the team.

How does this signing send any sort of message to the team's young players that you are in fact committed to the "youth movement" or "the kids?"

Does it  instead send a message that, on a team where we're supposed to believe that the best players earn playing time, that some players are in fact more equal than others, even if they haven't done anything to earn their spot?

How does this signing send any sort of message to the team's fans that you are in fact concerned with availing yourself of the best personnel available instead of playing favorites?

How does this signings end any sort of message to the rest of the league that the Detroit Red Wings want to avail themselves of the best personnel available to them, or that the team is committed to recruiting the best players outside of Detroit to come here and play for the coach that at least one player agent says no one wants to play for because he's, "An *#$%@& behind the bench"?

What happens if Daniel Cleary doesn't make the team? What happens if your line about not wanting to sign players that you have to get rid of in November turns out to be true for Cleary, and you have to send him to Grand Rapids. Will you send him to Grand Rapids? Will you understand that you'll have to still carry $575,000 of Cleary's contract on your cap figure?

What will that money do to the team's roster flexibility in terms of being able to add what whoever the "team sources" are have insisted is an absolutely essential player in a top-four defenseman with strong scoring abilities?

Daniel Cleary did nothing this past season to earn a spot on the 2014-2015 Red Wings roster, but you've given him a contract that ensures you're going to be paying him for two more years.

You've told MLive's Ansar Khan that things are different this time around (and the quotes are the same in Fox Sports Detroit's report)...

"He's worked hard in the gym, done things to get himself back," general manager Ken Holland said. "We're hoping Dan Cleary can bounce back. He'll be good insurance. He'll have to beat people out to be in the lineup."

The Red Wings now have 14 forwards, including Tomas Jurco, the only one of the group who is exempt from waivers and can be assigned to the Grand Rapids Griffins.

Holland said they will start the season with 14 forwards. They will decide before training camp whether to re-sign Daniel Alfredsson. Both sides are waiting to see how the 41-year-old's troublesome back holds up later this summer.

Cleary, 35, had just four goals and eight points in 52 games last season, after signing a one-year, $1.75 million contract on the eve of training camp. He didn't play after Jan. 28 due to a knee issue.

When Cleary signed his previous deal in September, Holland promised him he'd be taken care of at the end of the season. Holland is keeping his word.

"Unfortunately he had a tough year," Holland said. "He's a guy the coaching staff likes, his teammates like. He's a leader in the room. He can play left wing/right wing, can go on the power play."

But how are we supposed to believe you? Especially after we heard Mike Babcock insist that veterans win roster battles over youngsters--namely Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist, Riley Sheahan, Tomas Jurco and Luke Glendening--"by default" this past season?

You and your coach have said one thing, but your management group has acted in a completely different manner.

With Alexey Marchenko, Ryan Sproul, Xavier Ouellet and Mattias Backman supposedly nearly ready to play in the NHL, you chose to respond to your inability to sign a top-four, right-shooting defenseman by bringing back a left-shooting, 4/5/6 defensive defenseman because you're familiar with him.

Now, with four youngsters having "stolen jobs" over the past season and Landon Ferraro and Mitchell Callahan out of waiver options this upcoming season, you've given a one-way contract and a two-year pay-out to player who didn't contribute to the cause last season, and wasn't particularly useful the season before.

How have things really changed if you keep going back to the "take care of alumni" well?

How have things really changed if "the youth movement" keeps on finding that, every July, the team either retains or seeks out older alumni for the sake of familiarity and "loyalty" (see also: Mikael Samuelsson, Todd Bertuzzi, Jason Williams)?

How can you explain the fact that the team's words and off-season actions aren't consistent?

How can you justify the abandonment of, "The kids are our future" philosophy for, "It's a men's league and the kids aren't the answer" every damn summer?

When your team may very well have an "image problem" in terms of attracting elite talent due to the outside perception of Metro Detroit, the outside perception of your rink (especially the visitors' facilities), the outside perception of your team's nearness to being within any sort of reasonable probability of winning a round in the Eastern Conference and Atlantic Division, or the outside perception of that "*#$%@& behind the bench?"

How has any of what you've done since July 1st helped your team's cause?

And why are we supposed to believe anything you tell us any more?

Maybe completely losing credibility with the fans who pay so much money to attend games, purchase team merchandise and follow your organization is more important than you perceive it to be.

Maybe we deserve some answers, some honest ones, and some answers that we can believe in, and at this point, we're not sure that you're willing to afford us an explanation as to why you've made moves that have done nothing less than infuriate your paying fans.

I wish I could have talked to you at the summer development camp, but you ducked out, and I was told that I could speak to you in September.

Between now and then, don't be too surprised if you lose some season ticket-holders and lose some fans (and I mean that very sincerely) based upon your free agency track record and your "loyalty" to players who simply cannot be afforded preferential treatment in the "cap era."

At least Quincey was decent during the second half. Cleary was injured and when he wasn't, he wasn't very good, but here he is, and Wings fans don't understand why you'd do something they believe is utterly nonsensical.

It's ridiculous. And you should expect to be ridiculed, and your competency as a general manager questioned, as a result.

Update: Submitted for your inspection...

Update #2: From St. James:

When Daniel Cleary left $6 million on the table last fall in Philadelphia to return to Detroit, there was an agreement made that it would be ameliorated by the Red Wings.

That led to the contract that was announced Thursday, when the Red Wings signed Cleary to a one-year deal worth $1.5 million with another $1 million in bonuses. Cleary told the Detroit Free Press, "I"m happy for the opportunity to come back and play. I'm putting in a lot of effort to get ready and have a bounce-back year."

General manager Ken Holland said the decision, "has more to do with last year. My program has been one of loyalty, and there's good things and bad things that go with that. Way more good, in my opinion. I reached out to a lot of people before signing Dan, and he's very popular in our organization and with our on-ice leaders."

On the surface, it seems incongruent for a team that, with Tomas Tatar and Daniel Alfredsson still to be signed, already had a dozen forwards under NHL contracts. Cleary, 35, had eight points in 52 games last season, and had become a healthy scratch by late January.

The answer lies in loyalty, and in untangling a web of agreements from last September. After rejecting contract offers from the Red Wings - his team since 2005 - in June of 2013, Cleary verbally agreed to a three-year, $8.25 million deal with the Philadelphia Flyers. A day before training camp, Cleary flew to Traverse City and met at the airport with Holland and coach Mike Babcock.

Babcock pushed hard for Cleary's return, leading to a one-year deal at $1.75 million. Along with that came with a verbal agreement the Wings would take care of Cleary this summer.

"He had a tough year, but we're hoping he's going to bounce back," Holland said. "We've had luck with players with heart and determination." Holland said that if Cleary doesn't have a big camp, "he won't be in the lineup."

Update #3: But wait, there's more, from the Macomb Daily's Chuck Pleiness:

"He’s a leader,” Wings general manager Ken Holland said. “We’re hoping he can bounce back. He’ll be good insurance, but he’s going to have to beat people out to be in the lineup.”

Some of Cleary’s struggles were due to injuries.

He tried to return from a knee injury he suffered before the Olympic break, but a bad reaction to an injection caused inflammation.

“He had a tough year last season,” Holland said. “But he’s a guy the coaching staff likes and his teammates like. He’s a leader in the room. He can play left or right wing and can go on the power play.

“He’s worked really hard in the gym, doing things to get himself back,” Holland continued. “With this one-year deal we’re giving him an opportunity.”

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Comments

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cowboycoffee's avatar

well, i have diarrhea now, who else?

Posted by cowboycoffee from San Francisco, CA on 07/10/14 at 05:43 PM ET

silversailer's avatar

Thanks George, you read all of (most of) our minds.

Posted by silversailer on 07/10/14 at 05:47 PM ET

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On principle, I agree that this signing was a terrible move that will yield no reward for the team. My point of contention is the idea that Ferraro, Callahan are NHL caliber players. They are not and no one has them rated as anything more than career call-up players

I’d also like to note that Cleary isn’t a good, “locker room guy.” He is generally regarded as arrogant and rude. The notion that he is a good person to deal with is a canard.

Other than that, this assessment is fine.

Posted by Rsambo00 on 07/10/14 at 05:48 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Cleary’s terrible with fans, almost as bad as Chelios, and at least Chelios got used and abused by the Montreal and Chicago press. Cleary’s fantastic with the media, but I’ve heard more than a few Wings fans say that Cleary’s the opposite in terms of his interactions with them.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/10/14 at 05:52 PM ET

Jaromir Blogger's avatar

Fire Ken Holland.

Posted by Jaromir Blogger on 07/10/14 at 05:58 PM ET

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What is the source that this is a one way deal?  It does not say that, at least explicitly, in the link you provided.

Posted by Noodlearm on 07/10/14 at 06:03 PM ET

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I absolutely love the fact the Kenny kept his word. There is honor in that. I just wish he didn’t give his word to begin with. I’m not going to dog on Cleary, he’s a warrior. This one is all on Kenny.

Posted by weswolverine on 07/10/14 at 06:03 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

Before we hang Ken Holland lets have some perspective, since the majority seem to not have any.  The Red Wings have played the most playoff games since the lockout. Ken Holland has helped build 4 Stanley Cup winning teams. And has helped this team make the playoffs for 23 straight seasons.  I don’t think a 1.5 million signing of a player who can be versatile enough to play up and down the lineup and has proven time and again that he is valuable when times matter most, think Ana/Det game 7 gwg, is the end all be all of Ken Holland. Get a grip people.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 06:04 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

Cleary’s terrible

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/10/14 at 06:52 PM ET

Fixed.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

 

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 07/10/14 at 06:04 PM ET

Primis's avatar

“We’re hoping Dan Cleary can bounce back”

And we were hoping DET could have a good team, and a GM who’s currency was something beyond “hope”.

Posted by Primis on 07/10/14 at 06:04 PM ET

Redwingman17's avatar

I could not believe this when I saw it! and a one way deal. I’m getting fed up with this team 23 years in a row or not! Thank you George.

Posted by Redwingman17 from Denver/ LA on 07/10/14 at 06:05 PM ET

NIVO's avatar

not even the obligatory “I like our team” is funny any more

Posted by NIVO from underpants gnome village on 07/10/14 at 06:09 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

George, screw this as an open letter to Kenny. He is beyond reason and is certifiably nutso; the Donald Sterling (minus the racism) of the NHL.

Your well reasoned essay needs to hit the desk (if not the face) of one Christopher Ilitch. That man, and every person who shares his last name, ought to be embarrassed. So embarrassed that heads at the Joe roll into the Detroit River (metaphorically speaking, I’m not advocating violence no matter how justifiable it may be).

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/10/14 at 06:11 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Before we hang Ken Holland lets have some perspective, since the majority seem to not have any.  The Red Wings have played the most playoff games since the lockout. Ken Holland has helped build 4 Stanley Cup winning teams. And has helped this team make the playoffs for 23 straight seasons.  I don’t think a 1.5 million signing of a player who can be versatile enough to play up and down the lineup and has proven time and again that he is valuable when times matter most, think Ana/Det game 7 gwg, is the end all be all of Ken Holland. Get a grip people.

Ooh fun, somebody talking down to people.  Ok let’s get some PERSPECTIVE!  This should be fun!

The Red Wings have played the most playoff games since the lockout.

“The Lockout” now has two meanings and, unless you’re living in 2011, yours is meaningless. The Wings have NOT played the most playoff games since the lockout, because the new “the lockout” is 1.5 seasons ago. 

Even if you want to define it since the cap era started, big deal. Have they won the most cups?  Is simply participating in playoff games good enough?  If so, have they participated in enough playoff games over the last five years for you to be happy with their direction?

Ken Holland has helped build 4 Stanley Cup winning teams.

And every other person who HELPED in a meaningful way is either no longer helping him in a meaningful way or is off helping some other team. Ken Holland is now surrounded by a large group of underlings who have never helped build a cup-winner.

I don’t think a 1.5 million signing of a player who can be versatile enough to play up and down the lineup and has proven time and again that he is valuable when times matter most, think Ana/Det game 7 gwg, is the end all be all of Ken Holland.

In my perspective, I haven’t seen anybody suddenly turn on Holland due to this signing. It’s another piece of evidence against the belief that Ken Holland can effectively run a team anymore. Calling this move an “end all be all” lacks perspective.

Get a grip people.

Got one!

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/10/14 at 06:14 PM ET

Primis's avatar

Before we hang Ken Holland lets have some perspective, since the majority seem to not have any.  The Red Wings have played the most playoff games since the lockout. Ken Holland has helped build 4 Stanley Cup winning teams. And has helped this team make the playoffs for 23 straight seasons.

OK, you want perspective?  Here have this:

In July of 2008 Scotty Bowman left an advisory position in DET for the same in CHI.

Since then, DET has done nothing but slide down, and not coincidentally, CHI became a power.  You can literally point to that date and follow the timelines of the two teams and see…

I don’t think a 1.5 million signing of a player who can be versatile enough to play up and down the lineup and has proven time and again that he is valuable when times matter most, think Ana/Det game 7 gwg, is the end all be all of Ken Holland.

Holland didn’t sign that player though.  He signed Dan Cleary, now.

As JJ pointed out on Twitter, Tomas Jurco had 8 goals in 38 games.  Cleary had *8 points* in 52 games.  And now Jurco inevitably gets sent back to GR, like Nyquist was last year.  Remember Nyquist?  Remember Holland’s quote about it being “a man’s league” and implying the kids weren’t ready?  Tatar had 19 Goals, and you know what Nyquist did.  Ken Holland has no earthly idea what he’s talking about.

This was a bad signing LAST year, and the above was the result.  I don’t see any possible case to make that this year will be any better.  In fact all logic dictates it’s only going to be even worse.

Posted by Primis on 07/10/14 at 06:14 PM ET

Avatar

I’m talking about drawing a line in the sand. ACROSS THIS LINE. YOU. DO. NOT… Also, Kenny, Cleary is the preferred winger. It’s Tomas Jurco, please.

F#ck it dudes, let’s go bowling.

Posted by geoffreypelkey on 07/10/14 at 06:16 PM ET

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Good job George, pretty much summed up what’s on the mind of 90% of loyal DRW fans.
Too bad KH will never be questioned by media face to face.

Posted by VPalmer on 07/10/14 at 06:21 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Before we hang Ken Holland lets have some perspective, since the majority seem to not have any.  The Red Wings have played the most playoff games since the lockout. Ken Holland has helped build 4 Stanley Cup winning teams. And has helped this team make the playoffs for 23 straight seasons.  I don’t think a 1.5 million signing of a player who can be versatile enough to play up and down the lineup and has proven time and again that he is valuable when times matter most, think Ana/Det game 7 gwg, is the end all be all of Ken Holland. Get a grip people.
Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 07:04 PM ET

Bitch, please.

Kenny built 1 Stanley Cup winning team at the most. In 1997, KH wasn’t even GM, that was Jimmy Devellano. In 1998, KH took the reins, but it was still the roster Jimmy built. In 2002, the core of Jimmy’s two cup winners were still present, though props to KH for a few of FA signings. Though, how’s he done in FA signings the last few years? He sucked. 2008 is the only Cup one can argue he built..

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/10/14 at 06:22 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

I’m just so sick of every move made being the worst signing ever in this comments section. There are literally 14 other teams not making the playoffs wishing they were in the Wings position. Also the blackhawks drafted multiple times in the top 10 to get where they are now. This year was our highest pick since Marty Lapointe so our team hasn’t had to tank to still remain competitive. Get a grip.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 06:24 PM ET

Primis's avatar

I’m just so sick of every move made being the worst signing ever in this comments section.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 07:24 PM ET

Close the browser and don’t read comments here then.

Problem solved.

The reactions here aren’t from the knee-jerk types.

Posted by Primis on 07/10/14 at 06:30 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Ts14.. The one common denominator was bowman while we were winning cups.  He goes to Chicago and guess what they’re doing now…

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 06:30 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

People may not like the Quncey deal but one can make arguments for it. Weiss was a big flop due to injury, but there’s still potential over the remainder of his deal. Sammy was old and hurt but you knew he could fire the puck. Tootoo wasn’t the most skilled guy, but there was a solid chance his grit would bring value.

This signing isn’t even controversial like some of the others. It’s that bad.

Oh he’s good in the locker room? So is Paul Boyer. Maybe Cleary could be his assistant.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 07/10/14 at 06:32 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Captain D.. 08 was based on a team Bill drafted with his gut.  KH has said as much himself.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 06:32 PM ET

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George; I wholeheartedly agree with this entire post. Ken Holland’s last solid signing was Hossa in 2008-09. He wasted Lidstrom’s last years by signing fringe 3/4 line players, and that has been the case since, with this year being the culmination of fan frustration after giving Cleary preferential treatment. Imagine being Ferraro or Callahan right now, and knowing you have absolutely no shot with the Wings, because Cleary is more important. Or Jurco 100% starting the season in GR, because Holland can’t differentiate between emotion and savvy business, the latter of which Dean Lombardi and Stan Bowman excel at. I have been a Wings fan my entire life, watch us dominate for 20 years and win 4 Cups, and this is the first time I have ever felt this upset about our management (I’m 27). I no longer have faith in Ken Holland, and I genuinely want him canned. I love the Wings and always will, but I’ve had it with Holland.

Posted by ZandPasha11 on 07/10/14 at 06:33 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

I don’t deny bowmans influence. He’s the greatest coach who’s ever coached and is damn good evaluator of talent. But don’t dismiss the fact Toews, Kane, and Keith were gifted to the hawks for being terrible.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 06:34 PM ET

Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit's avatar

There are literally 14 other teams not making the playoffs wishing they were in the Wings position.

I do not care one bit about 14 other teams. The Wings position is barely getting into the playoffs for 2 years. Not good.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 07/10/14 at 06:34 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Captain D.. 08 was based on a team Bill drafted with his gut.  KH has said as much himself.
Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 07:32 PM ET

Bill? Do you mean Nill? As in Jim Nill, the man who should be Detroit’s GM right now?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/10/14 at 06:37 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

And Seabrook and hjarlmsson and sharp and buckle and niemi and Crawford….  We were gifted by luck with Z and Pav.. We only got 1 cup with them and one finals.. Toews and Kane are just starting and they’ve got that.. And personnel to back it up.  And they aren’t afraid to move on and try new young cheaper talent.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 06:41 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Yeah.. Damn auto correct

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 06:42 PM ET

CaptainDennisPolonich's avatar

Yeah.. Damn auto correct
Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 07:42 PM ET

Good, because for a second, I thought you meant RWBill. Which also made sense since he would do a better job the Kenny.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from The Land of Fake Boobs and Real Nuts on 07/10/14 at 06:43 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

What has Jim Nill and Steve Yzerman won and or done? Yzermans team missed the playoffs under his guidance and Nill hasn’t done squat…yet.  who drafted Mantha?

Also before the injury to Pav and Z we were in 2nd place behind Boston. When healthy our team is very competitive and unlike ALL of the top teams now we have not had to be a cellar dweller.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 06:44 PM ET

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To: Topshelf14.

I am willing to give KH credit for his long successful career as a GM, but last 5 years (pretty good time period to make a judgement) are indefensible. We are becoming the laughing stock of the NHL and nobody wants to come to play here even when we offer more money and term.

In July 2013 some fans were saying “Cleary signing is OK as long as it does not put Nyquist in GR” and now the same fans say “as long as it does not put Jurco in GR”. I guess we do not learn.

As George said, there are 30 free agent forwards still available who had more points than Cleary last year. If a president puts somebody on his staff just because he likes him, but he has no ability to do a job, it’s a problem, right? Same here.

We needed a right handed offensive dman and KH signed a left handed average defensive dman and gave him 3 times more money than he could have spent on a similar player like Volchenkov.

Since Hossa left, KH cannot provide one of the best centers in the game with a sniper and then spends $6 mil for Cleary and Q.

“We are not going to trade prospects for a rental” follows by exactly that.

First round pick is traded for KFQ.

Long term deals are given to absolutely mediocre replaceable players and then we have a logjam of players and cannot get rid of them even when we waive them because nobody wants them.

Getting Tatar (one of the better talents we have) here to threaten to go to KHL last year because KH could not say no to Cleary.

OK, how about results. Last 5 years we made the playoffs, that’s good, but we lost in the first round 3 times and in the second round twice. This is not an accomplishment for a proud organization like DRW.

Posted by VPalmer on 07/10/14 at 06:44 PM ET

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@topshelf. You make a valid point about Toews, Kane, etc. In fact, they were 3 in 06 and 1 in 07, respectively. If we look at the Wings, Z (210 in 99) and Pav (171 in 98) were late round picks, but were discovered by our amazing scout, Hakan Andersson (another guy you can add to the list that has aided Holland, a la Bowman, Neil, you name it).

My point is that Stan Bowman won a Cup, dismantled half the team because Dave Tallon spent like a drunken sailor, and then proceeded to win another Cup 3 years later with a different supporting cast.  Lombardi, on the other hand, built the Kings into a power house, which 2 Cups in 3 years, and in my opinion, a better team than the Hawks.

Ken Holland has not done anything since 09, which ironically coincides with when Wings’ coaches and front office personnel started leaving. Ken Holland thinks Dan Cleary is a better option than Jurco, Callahan, Ferraro, etc. Didn’t we just do this last year? (Cleary over Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan). I’m over it. I hope the Ilitch’s—who I adore because of our success—get rid of Holland. It’s ridiculous.

Posted by ZandPasha11 on 07/10/14 at 06:45 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

I’d argue their a piece or two away from real cup contenders vs. Is who maaany KH apologists have berated me with that the wings aren’t so what’s one or two or three shitty signings.  That’s an argument made all the time.  So if their closer or missing less pieces, in a parody based cap league I’d say that’s winning even if they haven’t got their shot yet.  They’re damn close.

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 06:47 PM ET

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who drafted Mantha?

The same person who will keep him away from the team before he is out of options while Cleary is playing if you can call it playing.

Posted by VPalmer on 07/10/14 at 06:47 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

The solution to not seeing general negativity among Red Wings fans about a move that Holland makes is for Holland to make an actual good move and perhaps don’t mess things up immediately after that (since the Sheahan move was a good one that got quickly beaten down by the signing period opening and subsequent signing of Quincey.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/10/14 at 06:49 PM ET

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Ken Holland’s last solid signing was Hossa in 2008-09

Let’s not forget Hossa’s agent called KH and said “Hossa wants to play for your team on a 1 year deal”. I believe KH admitted himself he was not even considering calling Marian.

Posted by VPalmer on 07/10/14 at 06:50 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Competative for regular season.. Not playoffs.  That comes with exp but we refuse to let our kids have a real shot to get it.  Then when its dire they’ll be thrown in the fire and the whole ease them in line goes out the window because the streak must prevail.  Developing a winning window in a couple years goes out the window as we log jam young talent well lose for nothing and never know who would’ve been the Dan cleary of the bunch.. Not apparently useful but evidently great on the locker room guys.. Like Calls.. The team has become a bag of useless cliches as they try to goad people into this years season ticket purchase

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 07/10/14 at 06:51 PM ET

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Ken Holland has not done anything since 09

And I wish it stayed that way. What he is doing now (last 3 years at least) is making the team worse, short term (because we have players who are better than Cleary now) and long term (because we are going to lose some potentially good players that we developed and because Jurco will spend another year in GR instead of helping team now and getting valuable NHL experience and becoming better).

Posted by VPalmer on 07/10/14 at 06:53 PM ET

topshelf14's avatar

There is a distinct difference between the Hawks and Wings though and it has nothing to do with there 3rd and 4th liners.  Towers, and Kane are young, and HEALTHY.  Our superstars are not. With a healthy Datsyuk and Zetterberg we would be dominate.  Unfortunately these 2 players are unable to stay healthy and when these are your go-to players that breeds a lack of success.

Posted by topshelf14 from Detroit, MI on 07/10/14 at 06:56 PM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.