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A difference of opinion: did the Red Wings offer Tatar and Nyquist for Iginla? I don’t buy it.

The Vancouver Province's Ed Willes insisted that the Red Wings were offering up two of Tomas Tatar, Gustav Nyquist and I believe either Riley Sheahan or Brendan Smith in a package for Alex Edler last summer (which supposedly included a 1st round pick and a "fourth piece" that the Wings wouldn't bite upon)--which seems a little outlandish, but may very well be what the Canucks were asking for Edler...

And while I do not doubt the Toronto Sun's Steve Simmons' temerity, his as-usual-superb Sunday notebook includes a could'a would'a trade suggestion that I simply believe was not the selling price but instead, the asking price:

As if they didn't have enough to complain about, imagine what Calgary Flames fans feel knowing they could have had Gustav Nyquist and Tomas Tatar in a deal last year for Jarome Iginla. But general manager of the day, Jay Feaster, was insistent on a first-round draft pick being included in any deal for Iginla. In the end, the Flames may have little to show for Iginla and the Red Wings are flourishing with Nyquist's scoring and Tatar's speed.

I respect the hell out of Simmons, who continues at length and includes a variety of sports topics, but even the GM who traded Calle Jarnkrok, a 2nd round pick and Patrick Eaves to Nashville for David Legwand wouldn't bite on that kind of deal.

Nyquist has been in the, "Who comes after Pav and Z" succession pipeline for a while now, and this sounds more like the kind of rumor that would've made the rounds after Tomas Tatar admittedly considered asking for a trade, and, in the process, helped fire up the Slovak rumor mill (remember last summer, when he was talking about the Wings allowing him to play for a KHL team until they traded his rights?).

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Comments

Primis's avatar

Here’s all I know or need to know:

Every reporter’s who has talked about it has a pretty different version of the package/what was offered/what was asked for, including guys like Bob Mackenzie.

So I just shrug and move on.

Posted by Primis on 04/19/14 at 08:11 PM ET

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Well, whatever the package was, thank god for idiots.

Posted by Garth on 04/19/14 at 08:25 PM ET

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And also, remember how people talked about the management “embracing a youth movement”?

Right.

Posted by Garth on 04/19/14 at 08:27 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Well, whatever the package was, thank god for idiots.

Posted by Garth on 04/19/14 at 09:25 PM ET

+19.

Posted by SYF from Alana Blanchard's Bikinis and Surfboards on 04/19/14 at 08:37 PM ET

PDXWing's avatar

@Garth - George is positing that those were the asking prices, not the offers. If that was the asking price and it was turned down, then it would argue that the Wings were unwilling to mortgage the future for a vet. I highly doubt the Wings management valued Iginla that much. Or are you saying that any package for Iginla was unacceptable?

Posted by PDXWing on 04/19/14 at 08:37 PM ET

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The Vancouver Province’s Ed Willes insisted that the Red Wings were offering…

It’s in the first line of the entry, PDX.  Detroit was offering, not Vancouver was asking for.

Posted by Garth on 04/19/14 at 09:17 PM ET

cigar_nurse's avatar

This comes out after these two losers are already golfing for the Summer. Amazing. So we were going to trade away our future for a coming to the end of a career guy who was to be a free agent at the end of last year?  I think that there are some very bored Canadian hockey writers fishing for a story due to having only one team in the playoffs.  tongue wink

Posted by cigar_nurse from Greenville South Cakalakee on 04/19/14 at 09:35 PM ET

WingFanFormerlyInLA's avatar

Actually I really doubt that Nyquist was involved in some of these rumored trades (at least being offered by the Wings). Tatar I very much believe they would have moved.  For some reason they’ve never seemed all that impressed, which boggles the mind honestly.

Posted by WingFanFormerlyInLA on 04/19/14 at 10:04 PM ET

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Consider the sources…

One guy is a writer, likely with strong connections.

The other guy is just some blogger with no connections.

I’ll take the writer for a legitimate newspaper.

Posted by redwingshomersLOL on 04/19/14 at 11:05 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

That’s funny, because I’m the one that attends the Wings’ summer development camp, and Simmons is the one known for occasionally pulling stories out of his butt…

And, as so many have pointed out on Twitter, when TSN’s Bob McKenzie told the story, it was a post-trade deadline tale about Jay Bouwmeester, who’d just been traded from Calgary to St. Louis.

Perspective. Not having it and casting aspersions is an internet thing.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 04/19/14 at 11:10 PM ET

PDXWing's avatar

@Garth - it’s a difference of opinion about what was offered versus what was asked for. George believes, and stated a couple of times, that these rumors are bogus. In fact, the rest of the first line, which you quoted, goes on to state as much. I highly doubt that Nyquist and Tatar were offered for a past-his-prime Iginla. I doubt the Wings offered much of anything, which was why he went somewhere else. The final trade with the Pens was a first round pick (not sure what number, but almost certainly in the bottom half of the first round) and the rights to two college players (3rd and 5th round selections). If CGY chose that over two near-ready (at the time) NHL players, they are truly inept.

As far as losing two of the four prospects listed, a first round pick, and an undisclosed 4th element for Alex Elder, I am dubious. I know they wanted him and made an offer, but that is awfully steep. If the Wings offered just three of the those things (two NHL-ready prospects, first round pick) and VAN turned it down, then they also made a poor decision.

You’ve got to give to get, as they say, but both of those trade rumors are lopsided (maybe easier to see now that Gus and Tatar are more established). My guess is that Gillis asked for the moon because Edler was signed to a long term contract and there was no pressure to trade him. CGY probably overvalued Iginla since it was such a big deal to trade the captain - they likely held out too long for higher offers and then took the only first round pick offered. Pure speculation on my part, but one of the best skills the Wings organization has is assessing talent. They’re not always correct (see keeping Meech over Quincey), but mostly are. They are also pretty conservative about value, and trading top prospects for upcoming UFAs isn’t good business.

Posted by PDXWing on 04/20/14 at 01:09 AM ET

PDXWing's avatar

It’s also frightening to consider that the Wings would have been unable to draft Anthony Mantha had they made either of those proposed deals.

Posted by PDXWing on 04/20/14 at 01:12 AM ET

Rumbear's avatar

“Boob bate for the bubbas” as Daniel Patrick Moynihan (fer chrissakes look it up) once said.  “Who gives a crap” as the Down River Punk Bunnies chant…..

Throw in a 62 Pontiac and a 2010 Buick and the deal still does not go through.  Why does this “highly respectable” clown have any gravitas .....NOW?!  C’mon…do I need a crayon to draw it out?

Absolute BS…I suspect he is wearing BossTown jockey shorts and trying to get a locker room pass.  Codename Locicisnardboy…...

LGRW !!!!

Posted by Rumbear from Top O the Hasek, with 3 fingers of rum & a cigar.. on 04/20/14 at 02:27 AM ET

Hippy Dave's avatar

No way in hell that was the offer.

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 04/20/14 at 02:39 AM ET

Hippy Dave's avatar

Perspective. Not having it and casting aspersions is an internet thing.

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 04/20/14 at 02:41 AM ET

George Malik's avatar

I do want to state that I don’t believe that the asking prices are bogus at all, regardless of whether it was Iginla, Bouwmeester, Edler or my mom’s 1994 Mercury Grand Marquis. I fully believe that the asking prices were as reported.

I also fully believe that the fact that Ken Holland wants to keep that first-round pick has saved us Wings fans from more than one dunderheaded trade.

All of that being said, I can tell you that Gustav Nyquist was seen as something of a hopeful ace in the hole four years ago, and two years ago, he was going to be part of the master plan. Tatar…Has had to earn his way, and good for him.

And Anthony Mantha has 18 points in 12 playoff games, with his Val-d’Or Foreurs up 2-0 on the QMJHL’s defending champions, the Halifax Mooseheads, and QMJHL leading playoff scorer Jonathan Drouin, in the Q conference final.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 04/20/14 at 03:09 AM ET

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even you must admit there’s a vast difference between a guy who attends development camp and a columnist for the Toronto Sun. I’m not saying you’re wrong because this seems ludicrous, but so did the giant jarnkrock trade

Posted by jkm2011 on 04/20/14 at 07:14 AM ET

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If either of those rumors are true, it shows how little the GM values their talent. This season was hopefully a pitcher of ice water down Holland’s pants.

This has been a difficult season for me, related to my thoughts about Ken Holland. On the one hand, his “system” (including drafting and development) is responsible for the team having these guys and for them performing well. But I also thought this situation only unfolded because of a ludicrous number of injuries. I am certain some players - like Sheahan and Jurco - never would’ve played NHL hockey this year if those injuries hadn’t happened.

When I read reports like this, it reinforces my belief and opens some consternation on my part. If this is true, it means that Ken Holland thought Nyquist and Tatar were worth a solid #2 defenseman or a 36 year-old aging scorer (with maybe a couple few more good seasons). That reeks of mishandling of prospects and a deep-seated lack of belief in both of these players and/or in youth as a whole. Assuming this is true, Ken Holland would’ve traded two rising stars in either case, which is a scary indictment of Ken Holland and/or his pro scouting staff.

PS: Calle Jarnkrok, in Hockeysfuture’s post season prospect rankings, is the 49th ranked prospect in hockey. That would put him as the Wings’ 4th best prospect, behind Mantha, Mrazek and Jurco.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/20/14 at 09:18 AM ET

PDXWing's avatar

@Vito - not to sound churlish, but the whole point of the blog entry and the subsequent discussion thread is that it is highly unlikely that those players were offered in a trade.

If you going to assume anything to be true, it should be the opposite. None of those deals for Iginla, Boumeester, or Edler happened, so the evidence leans towards the Wings offering less than what was actually acquired in the trades. See my previous comment on what the Pens ended up giving up for Iginla (3rd and 5th round college players, and the 28th pick in the draft). Bouwmeester was had for a conditional first, a minor league defenseman, and an unsigned Swiss goalie - essentially he was had for a first round pick. Both of those deals are substantially less than acquiring Tatar and Nyquist, in my opinion.

Posted by PDXWing on 04/20/14 at 10:41 AM ET

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PDX - I wrote that under the assumption that the rumors were true.

Whether or not I believe them or not, it’s hard to say.

Posted by VitoLambruski on 04/20/14 at 11:34 AM ET

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The Malik Report is a destination for all things Red Wings-related. I offer biased, perhaps unprofessional-at-times and verbose coverage of my favorite team, their prospects and developmental affiliates. I've joined the Kukla's Korner family with five years of blogging under my belt, and I hope you'll find almost everything you need to follow your Red Wings at a place where all opinions are created equal and we're all friends, talking about hockey and the team we love to follow.