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Why Vancouver Won`t Trade Schneider This Season

One of the players who is rumored to be on the trade block at this year`s deadline is Cory Schneider of the Vancouver Canucks.  Vancouver has two strong goalies in Schneider and Roberto Luongo and both would like to be the team`s clear number one goalie.  Luongo is signed until 2022 with a $5.33 million salary cap hit.  That contract is prohibitive to move.  Schneider is signed for $900,000 this season and he becomes a restricted free agent.  His contract would be far easier for another team to fit into their salary structure.

The Vancouver Canucks are a top team who have a very good shot at the Stanley Cup.  The Sedin brothers are 31 and might begin to show decline as they age.  The Vancouver Canucks will have trouble keeping their core together into the future under a salary capped system.  Thus this might be the season where the Canucks have the best shot at winning the Stanley Cup in the foreseeable future, so they should take their best run at it.

In the playoffs a team usually makes a run using only one of their goalies.  Thus the Caucks might be better served with only one top NHL goalie and an asset in return for the other one.  This assumes that there is no value in the insurance policy of a top backup goalie.  Were something to happen to Luongo, Vancouver would be dead in the water without a backup goalie.  With Schneider in the fold, Vancouver still has a chance a playoff run.

The problem with this theory is that Vancouver does not have salary cap space to add an asset in return for Schneider.  Vancouver is the team with the least salary cap space in the league with slightly over $200,000 available to add a player at the trade deadline and much of this room only exists because of the long term injured reserve.  That number assumes that Vancouver does not make other moves to reduce their payroll before the trade deadline.  That is probably a good assumption because it is hard to improve your Stanley Cup chances and reduce your payroll simultaneously. 

The most logical payroll reduction target is Keith Ballard.  He is paid over $4 million a year to be a depth defenceman.  Moving him would likely reduce Vancouver`s overall talent pool, which isn`t the right move to increase their playoff chances.  It is possible that a Ballard move coupled with another move could lead to a net improvement, but that is a tough road.  It is very likely that it could backfire.

Trading Cory Schneider makes no sense unless Vancouver can bring back a significant asset in return.  Vancouver does not have the salary cap space to do this.  Therefore the won`t be trading Cory Schneider this season.

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Comments

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C’mon man.  How is the core going to be more expensive?  They have it spaced out, and are in fine shape Cap wise.

Is it only the Wings that can be good for a while?  Thats just specious and wrong PSH.  The Canucks will be a strong team for a while…sorry.

Also, the numbers are what CapGee says, not the team.  They know they can move a few spare parts and do whatever they like.  Maybe not as much cap space as the Wings and Hawks, but not worried there either.

I always like reading about my team from folks that don’t really know anything about them.  Schneider won’t get traded because the team likes him, wants him around as long as possible, and because the team knows they will still get something awesome before the draft for a goalie that is the best “#1 in waiting” in the NHL ( sorry Tukka ).

So, it aint for the reasons you theorized PSH, but you got to the right spot at the end.  I see you went the easy route , like some of the more simple “fans” and just tossed Ballard…but thats fine.

Posted by vancitydan on 02/12/12 at 03:29 PM ET

DrewBehr's avatar

“The Sedin brothers are 31 and might begin to show decline as they age.”

Luongo is 32. Just sayin’...

Nucks were idiots to sign him for eternity. You know damn well Schneider will be looking for a starting role once his current deal is up.

“It is very likely that it could backfire.”

Funny that this is mentioned about Ballard, in an article about Scheider…

Posted by DrewBehr from The Mitten on 02/12/12 at 03:44 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

C’mon man.  How is the core going to be more expensive?  They have it spaced out, and are in fine shape Cap wise.

Vancouver is right up against the salary cap right now.  They are a good team.  Good teams have good players who deserve raises.  You cannot give those players raises when there isn`t the salary cap space to do so.  Last summer they lost Christian Ehrhoff.  They will lose talent every year for the next few years.  That is the reality when any team is too good in this salary capped system.  They will not be able to keep all of their talent together in the future.  Some of it will go to the weak sister teams.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 02/12/12 at 04:26 PM ET

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I completely disagree with this statement: “Luongo is signed until 2022 with a $5.33 million salary cap hit.  That contract is prohibitive to move.”

First, based on his cap hit, Luongo is the 8th highest paid goalie in the NHL. He is consistently in the top 5 in terms of NHL goalies (look at it in terms of multiple years, not just one playoff series). That is a reasonable amount of money to be paying Luongo, particularly when salaries will be increasing into the future. Other teams would be thrilled to pay him this amount of money to be their goalie.

Second, during the last 4 years of his contract, Luongo becomes exactly the type of player that Florida/Phoenix/NY Islanders/etc. want to have on their team—someone whose cap hit is significantly higher than their actual salary. This allows these kinds of teams to reach the cap floor without paying out significant amounts of real dollars. I think that there is going to be tremendous interest in Roberto Luongo’s services towards the end of his career, exactly for this reason. And if he has declined, the Canucks treat their players well enough that I would not be shocked to see him retire early considering the massive amount of money he got on the front end of this contract.

Posted by Mike from Toronto on 02/12/12 at 04:45 PM ET

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The most logical move would be to trade Luongo.  Don’t tell me he’s unmovable either.  There are pretty stupid and incompetent GMs in the league who would probably take on his contract without batting an eyelash.  I bet either Columbus, Long Island or Toronto would be dumb enough to agree to a trade.

Posted by Chris on 02/12/12 at 04:49 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

I definitely think Luongo is unmoveable during this season.  It might be possible in an off season when teams have more roster spaces to fill and more cash to spend.

I think the most logical Vancouver move is to keep two goalies until somebody wows them with a remarkable return for one of them or circumstances change.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 02/12/12 at 04:54 PM ET

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Posted by Mike from Toronto on 02/12/12 at 02:45 PM ET

First, Luongo’s spotty history in the playoffs make him prohibitive to move.  Until he wins he’s going to be solid regular season goalie who can’t do what it takes to win the Cup.  He can be maddeningly inconsistent in the playoffs and is a basketcase mentally.

Second, if he is able to keep up his high (regular season, not including this season) play then sure. he’ll be an attractive property in the final four years of the contract, but it’s pretty obvious that the article is not talking about whether Luongo will be moveable in seven years, it’s whether he’s moveable now, and he is very clearly not.

I bet either Columbus, Long Island or Toronto would be dumb enough to agree to a trade.

I bet you’re completely and utterly wrong on all three counts.

Columbus has two long contracts and are learning the hard way that those contracts can be dangerous.  I doubt they would want to take on a third one, especially one which, for the foreseeable future (like Jeff Carter’s contract) would have them paying out significantly more than the cap hit.

Brian Burke is possibly the most vocal GM against long-term contract.  There is no way in hell he’s going to trade for an overrated goalie who still will have ten years left on his contract after this year.

Garth Snow (via Wayne Wang) is not looking for contracts in which he is going to be paying more than the cap hit.  The four recent longer contracts they have signed (Tavares, Okposo, Grabner and Nielson) ALL have the players making LESS than their cap hit for the first couple years.  They don’t want contracts that are worth 5ish per year but that are paying nearly seven for the next six years.

Posted by Garth on 02/12/12 at 05:20 PM ET

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Garth, Luongo led his team to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. He got two shutouts in the finals. Thomas, clearly, was the better goalie in those finals, but the Canucks scored what—9 goals? Yes, you have to take the bad with the good, but there was a lot of good in Luongo’s playoff performance.

People didn’t say everyone other than Gretzky were terrible players during his era. Thomas had that kind of finals. By comparison, yes, he was superior to Luongo. But no one else made it as far as those two. The Canucks couldn’t score (their PP dried up, in particular), but to say that Luongo can’t deliver in the playoffs is ridiculous. Assuming a player has a 10 year career, they only have a 33% chance of winning the cup. To except any player to be measured by a “did they win the cup” standard is fairly arbitrary when considering the worth of a player.

Posted by Mike from Toronto on 02/12/12 at 08:24 PM ET

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You’re not really going to pretend that he’s a consistent goalie, are you?

He melted down in the first round last year by being pulled twice and then benched for game six, only going into the game because Schneider got hurt.  It took the Canucks seven games instead of four specifically because of the play of Luongo.

Oh, and yeah, he was pulled twice in the Finals too.  To say that he was outplayed by Tim Thomas is a slight bit of an understatement.

Also, it’s incredibly easy to get in his head.  Seriously, you can get into his head by saying absolutely nothing.  Just ask Tim Thomas.

I should also mention that he started off his Stanley Cup Finals year by almost losing the starting job to his backup.

Honestly, how many teams are going to be interested in a ridiculously overrated headcase?  He can be Vezina quality one night and sub-AHL quality the next.

All for nearly seven million a year in real dollars for the next half-dozen years.

Posted by Garth on 02/12/12 at 09:51 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

I think it is a fair statement to say Luongo has been the best goalie in the league over the last ten years (Thomas wasn’t in the league at the beginning of the period, Brodeur has slowed significantly…).  There may be a few high profile meltdowns, but I would be confident in him being one of the better goalies in the league right now and into the immediate future.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 02/12/12 at 09:56 PM ET

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I think it’s more fair to say he is absolutely the most overrated goalie in the league.

Posted by Garth on 02/12/12 at 10:09 PM ET

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If he’s the best goalie in the league over the past decade (ha!) then why are the Canucks so vocally against even considering trades for Schneider?  Gillis knows he could get a relative king’s ransom for Schneider but laughs off the idea that he would even field offers for the young goalie because he has no confidence that Luongo is a reliable playoff performer.

If Gillis had any confidence in Luongo he wouldn’t so vehemently dismiss the notion of making his team better by trading Schneider.

If you have the best goalie in the league then you have no reason to have a #1B rather than a #2/backup goalie.

Posted by Garth on 02/12/12 at 10:16 PM ET

PuckStopsHere's avatar

If he’s the best goalie in the league over the past decade (ha!) then why are the Canucks so vocally against even considering trades for Schneider?

Garth did you read what I wrote?  The Canucks have no salary space to take on a player of any quality in return for Schneider.  It would be next to impossible to make a Schneider trade that makes sense in the Canucks attempt to win a Stanley Cup now.

Would you argue that the Bruins must have no faith in Tim Thomas because they are against trading Tuukka Rask?  Or is this special pleading in the Canucks situation?

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 02/12/12 at 10:33 PM ET

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Denial.

Complete and utter, if you think that Luongo has the mental fortitude to win the Cup. Yes, he had some good games in the playoffs, but he isn’t going to pull the ‘nucks through a tight, pressure packed series with a bunch of low scoring games. And ffs, what sort of goalie sits in the rematch against the team that beat him in an emotional series the previous year?  Mentally defeated.

Posted by toolazytologin on 02/13/12 at 02:35 AM ET

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PuckStopsHere is right: trading Schneider could get Vancouver big return, but more in terms of 1st and 2nd rounders and prospects. It would be pretty much impossible to find another playoff-bound team that is ready to give up a piece of its active roster that Vancouver needs and that can get into cap space Vancouver has. And Schneider won’t be worth less after the season. At this point not trading Schneider has nothing to do with believing in Luongo.

Posted by Davor on 02/13/12 at 04:38 AM ET

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You’re not really going to pretend that he’s a consistent goalie, are you?

He melted down in the first round last year by being pulled twice and then benched for game six, only going into the game because Schneider got hurt.  It took the Canucks seven games instead of four specifically because of the play of Luongo.

Oh, and yeah, he was pulled twice in the Finals too.  To say that he was outplayed by Tim Thomas is a slight bit of an understatement.

Also, it’s incredibly easy to get in his head.  Seriously, you can get into his head by saying absolutely nothing.  Just ask Tim Thomas.

I should also mention that he started off his Stanley Cup Finals year by almost losing the starting job to his backup.

Honestly, how many teams are going to be interested in a ridiculously overrated headcase?  He can be Vezina quality one night and sub-AHL quality the next.

All for nearly seven million a year in real dollars for the next half-dozen years.

Seriously, how in the eff do Toronto fans think they are the voice of reason when they espouse this BS?

Garth, just STFU.  Not only do you make some pretty stupid generalizations, you are just wrong.

There is no goalie in the NHL that has had a .920 save % over 10+ years.  The closest is Thomas a point higher over 5 years.  So, he is the most consistent goalie in the NHL.

Second, you are an idiot for saying that the Canucks ( or any team ) can blame the goalie for a “meltdown”. Its a team game you twit.  Grow up.

It took seven games because the hawks were one of the best 8th seeds in years. Team game putz.

Pulled twice in the Finals? Ream game, again you moron.  God, do you even watch hockey, or just take up all your time being a self important windbag?

Easy to get in his head?  Really?  Funny, the guy has been fine as far as this Canuck fans sees mentally.  That BS is all some media invention from lazy Eastern writers that you obviously read.  If you actually, you know, watched the games, you would realize that is dumb.

Probably not though, because you are too full of yourself.

Your last comments are just basic boilerplater hater bull, but really, don’t talk about a team you don’t watch, and are obviously jealous of. I know its tough for Leaf fans, what with being in the playoffs about 8 years ago, but tough.

Grow up.

Sorry everyone else.  Loudmouth mouth breathers like this twit piss me off.

Posted by vancitydan on 02/13/12 at 12:37 PM ET

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If he’s the best goalie in the league over the past decade (ha!) then why are the Canucks so vocally against even considering trades for Schneider?  Gillis knows he could get a relative king’s ransom for Schneider but laughs off the idea that he would even field offers for the young goalie because he has no confidence that Luongo is a reliable playoff performer.

If Gillis had any confidence in Luongo he wouldn’t so vehemently dismiss the notion of making his team better by trading Schneider.

If you have the best goalie in the league then you have no reason to have a #1B rather than a #2/backup goalie.

Man, you don’t have anything better to do windbag?

Here’ let me answer your moronic comments some more.

(Ha!)  What’s that all about son?  The actual numbers say that the statement is a fact.  Maybe if you took the time to look, you would less stupid on sites like this.

Second, twitzter, Gillis has said that he would take a deal if it “knocked his socks off”, but why would he want to trade a guy that the teammates love, and who is the best back up in the NHL?  Pretty fine 1-2 punch to have.

Gillis, and the whole organization, have plenty of confidence in Luongo.  What Canuck fans cannot understand is how twits like you can actually espouse this hater bull$hit and actually look in the mirror, or even talk to your friends about hockey with a straight face.  Must have some pretty dumb friends I guess.

Again, why would you not be strong at every position?  I know its tough for you little minded Leaf fans to understand how a great team goes about doing this stuff…but maybe if that blowhard you have stopped worrying about his media image and, you know, built a team that won occasionally, you would be less negative.

As it is, when you come on places like this and just espouse hater BS without, you know, facts ( like several have now pointed out to your dense a$$ )...you just look dumber than you were the last time you could drag yourself to look at that ugly face in the mirror.

Posted by vancitydan on 02/13/12 at 12:46 PM ET

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Denial.

Complete and utter, if you think that Luongo has the mental fortitude to win the Cup. Yes, he had some good games in the playoffs, but he isn’t going to pull the ‘nucks through a tight, pressure packed series with a bunch of low scoring games. And ffs, what sort of goalie sits in the rematch against the team that beat him in an emotional series the previous year?  Mentally defeated.

Another Rhodes scholar.  I’ll keep knocking down these ducks…but really, you haters need new material.

You know all this supposition because you are…what, a coach or a scout in the NHL right?  Oooh no, an ex player…just never got a break, thats it isn’t it?

No?

Honestly, you are almost as big a putz as Garth.  How is it you mental midgets are such authorities on things like “mental fortitude”?  Unless you are a professional, just STFU.

Mentally defeated because the coach gave Cory the start the FIRST TIME he went back to his home town…right?

Seriously, do you guys think before the fingers start typing?

The man is fine.  The goalies in Vancouver are top notch, both of them.  There is nothing to it other than that.  A Stanley Cup contender is deep at every position.

I know thats tough for you Leafs fans to realize, what with all the suckage the last few years…but really, go populate a Leafs G&M thread or something.

Posted by vancitydan on 02/13/12 at 12:53 PM ET

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I think Luongo is way better off since he is not captian of the team. With Cory doing good and the way he carries him self on and off the ice, it is something for Luongo to learn from. He just has do do what he has been doing lately…play goal and dont let what is going on around you matter…go nucks. We will take Cory for goal in Saskatchewan, lets get a team in this province.  vampire

Posted by nelson from Hudson Bay Sask. on 02/13/12 at 02:15 PM ET

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I think people forget just how good Luongo is. Look at last year’s playoffs. Even though he melted down twice against Chicago and three/four times against Boston, he still had a .914 save percentage, which is starting caliber. Now, he played 25 games, and melted down roughly 6 times. That must mean he was some kind of amazing the other times.

The SCF doesn’t go to 7 without Luongo. He stole Game 3 from Chicago and was great in Game 7. He shut down San Jose and Nashville.

If a guy is choker because he lost in Game 7 of the FInals, yet wouldn’t be if he hadn’t, then I don’t think he’s nearly as choketastic as he’s made out to be. A goalie’s job is to stop pucks, and few, if any, do that better than Luongo right now.

Posted by Ralph on 02/13/12 at 05:55 PM ET

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You know all this supposition because you are…what, a coach or a scout in the NHL right?  Oooh no, an ex player…just never got a break, thats it isn’t it?

No?

Honestly, you are almost as big a putz as Garth.  How is it you mental midgets are such authorities on things like “mental fortitude”?  Unless you are a professional, just STFU.

Mentally defeated because the coach gave Cory the start the FIRST TIME he went back to his home town…right?

Hmm, getting a little worked up in your responses. Not my cup of tea to get emotional in a blog, let alone a hockey blog full of Red Wing fanatics, but hey, I guess you’re passionate about your team.  Lots of people from Van share your passion, right?  Or are they all from Surrey and the rest of the burbs?

And good god, you called “us” Leafs’ fans somewhere in that diatribe! Are you kidding?  I love hockey, first and foremost, but I’m definitely not a Leafs fan. I like a team that plays close to the Pacific Ocean, and I have one non-Leaf team back East that I follow as well.

I’ve seen Luongo play well. There’s no doubt that he can do that, though he doesn’t have the best glove hand in the business.  I’ve also seen him fall apart completely.  When he goes bad and when the crowd starts heckling him, one can certainly tell that it effects him.  I sit near the visitor bench and I’ve seen him at time outs and he carries a defeated look on his face. How is that not a mental issue?  He should see a sports psychologist imo. No shame in doing something that many other athletes have found to be beneficial.

Feel free to spin the Boston visit any way you want. If Coach V thought that Luongo gave the team the best chance to win, why wouldn’t he’d have started him?  I wonder why he didn’t think that Luongo, with all his gaudy career stats, offered the best chance at a win?  If Luongo himself really wanted to play that game, as would most uber-competitive pro athletes under similar circumstances, I’m guessing it would have happened.

Posted by toolazytologin on 02/13/12 at 06:51 PM ET

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On your last point, that means every goalie wants to play every game. Except they don’t.

Posted by Ralph on 02/15/12 at 12:23 AM ET

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Garth did you read what I wrote?  The Canucks have no salary space to take on a player of any quality in return for Schneider.

Did you miss that Gillis has been taking calls on Schneider for TWO YEARS?

With the “best goalie in the NHL over the past decade” he could’ve gotten a solid return for Schneider at ANY TIME.

Seriously, how in the eff do Toronto fans think they are the voice of reason when they espouse this BS?

I’m not sure, since I despise the Maple Leafs.  I wonder what being a Leafs fan would have to do with anything.

Second, you are an idiot for saying that the Canucks ( or any team ) can blame the goalie for a “meltdown”.

You’re right, I guess it was Ryan Kesler’s fault that Luongo sucked a big fat dick in the second half of the Chicago series and part of the Finals.

Pulled twice in the Finals? Ream game, again you moron. 

I don’t know what a ream game is, but I know that it’s the goalie’s job to stop the puck and when he doesn’t he gets pulled.  If it was all because of the team then I guess that explains why, after pulling Luongo in two straight games against the Hawks, the Canucks put Schneider in net to start the next game.  I guess that’s not any kind of knock against Luongo, right?

I know its tough for you little minded Leaf fans to understand how a great team goes about doing this stuff…

Well, since I’m a Wings fan and not a Leafs fan *cough*FourCupsAndTwoFinalsAppearancesSince1997*cough* can you please, PLEASE PLEEEEEEEEEASE tell me what it’s like to be a fan of a “great” team that made the finals once in recent history and has never ever EVER won the Stanley Cup?

Please, Mr Great Team Fan?  PLEASE?

The goalies in Vancouver are top notch, both of them.

One of them is, the other cries when his opponent doesn’t talk about how great he is.

As it is, when you come on places like this and just espouse hater BS without, you know, facts

It’s funny that we bring up the FACTS that he was pulled several times in the playoffs and was BENCHED, only getting back on the ice because Schneider got hurt, yet you retort with “facts” such as “but he’s really good” and consistent even though he can’t be a “great” team’s number one goalie in the playoffs when they really need him to be great.

you just look dumber than you were the last time you could drag yourself to look at that ugly face in the mirror.

Ah, my ugliness.  Is that one of those “facts” you use to defend the most overrated goalie in the game?

That must mean he was some kind of amazing the other times.

Absolutely, but it also factually supports the claim that he is NOT consistent, which is what a great team needs.

The SCF doesn’t go to 7 without Luongo.

I agree.  If he had any consistency Vancouver probably would’ve won in five or six.

If a guy is choker because he lost in Game 7 of the FInals

He’s a choker because he had his team up 3-0 in the first round and choked in two straight games, to the point where the Canucks started their backup in game six and only put Luongo back in net because Schneider got hurt.

few, if any, do that better than Luongo right now.

Based on GAA, 12 do it better.  Including his backup.
Based on save percentage, 13 do it better.  Including his backup.
In terms of wins, six do it better.
In terms of shutous, 19 do it better.

Posted by Garth on 02/19/12 at 04:44 PM ET

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imageThe Puck Stops Here was founded during the 2004/05 lockout as a place to rant about hockey. The original site contains over 1000 posts, some of which were also published on FoxSports.com.

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