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Thinking Hall Of Fame For Osgood

from Scott Burnside of ESPN,

When you take a look at the other nine netminders who have hit the 400-win mark, six are already in the Hockey Hall of Fame (Patrick Roy, Terry Sawchuk, Jacques Plante, Tony Esposito, Glenn Hall and Grant Fuhr). Martin Brodeur, the winningest goaltender of all time, is a lock, while Ed Belfour is considered a good Hall bet next year in his first year of eligibility. Curtis Joseph is fourth all-time with 454 wins, but never won a Cup.

That leaves Osgood, who has 400 wins and owns three Stanley Cup rings. In the spring of 2009, he was also one win away from a fourth when the Pittsburgh Penguins edged the Wings 2-1 in Game 7 in Detroit.

He has never been as flashy or flamboyant as many of those in the 400 club, but how does not smashing up television sets in coaches’ offices, etc., stand as a mark against a person?

Does Osgood think about the Hall of Fame, his place in the game?

“Of course I do,” he said. “You’ve kind of proven that you belong there and you want to get there. It’s right there in front of me.”

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added 11:44am, from Rob Otto of Mlive,

That is where Osgood falls short.  The eyeball test.  If you’ve seen him play, it is hard to say he is one of the best ever.

How often was he considered one of the best players among his contemporaries in the NHL?  How often was he even considered one of the best players on his team?  Heck, how often was it a 100-percent lock that he was even the best goalie on his team?

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added 11:51am, from Greg Wyshynski of Puck Daddy,

What Osgood is, we think, is the Glenn Anderson of goaltenders. Tremendous postseason success, both as a driving force and as a passenger for Cup teams, and playoff stats that are among the best in NHL history. Their regular-season numbers are well above average and Osgood’s win total puts him on another level among goaltenders. Both benefitted from playing with elite talent.

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Filed in: NHL Teams, Detroit Red Wings, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: chris+osgood

Comments

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nah

Posted by DeathMetalNightmare on 12/29/10 at 01:24 PM ET

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Yes. You just can’t deny 400 wins. You can make the argument that he’s just an average goalie on a great team, but you can make that same argument for a lot of goalies. Look at Broduer. The guy saw less pucks in an entire game than some goalies see in a period now during the clutch and grab 90’s and yet he’s considered the best or 2nd best by just about every hockey fan out there.

Not to mention the fact that if he plays another season or two as the backup in Detroit, he could realistically be as high as 7th all time in wins.

I just don’t see any way not to put him in the HOF.

Posted by Kstewy16 on 12/29/10 at 01:43 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

He should be in the Hall… eventually.

Rob Otto should never get a hockey link.  All of his articles are trollbaiting.  I understand the need to get the dissenting opinion out there, but Rob Otto is a shitstain.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 12/29/10 at 02:01 PM ET

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“Of course I do,” he said. “You’ve kind of proven that you belong there and you want to get there. It’s right there in front of me.”

Nice to see that humility’s not dead.

Posted by StevieSteve on 12/29/10 at 02:02 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

All the numbers say yes, and do so pretty convincingly. If you take the numbers and associate them with a nameless, faceless goalie, 10 out of 10 voters would put him in the HHOF.

I will admit that the “eyeball test” will really leave you with some negative vibes. It’s hard to forget the San Jose giveaway or the Max Talbot goal, for instance. Even the other night when he won #400, it was vintage Osgood—great play on the whole, but arguably you are only as good as your worst moment, and his worst moment was a howler that wouldn’t have gone by a pylon.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 12/29/10 at 02:08 PM ET

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The problem with the “wins” argument is that it largely suggests that you can be a Hall of Fame elector without ever having to watch a hockey game in your life.  Just tally up the totals at the end of the career and compare them to your benchmark. 

If you don’t see any way to keep Osgood out, then that’s because you’re not watching hockey games.  For most of his career, he’s a pretty good goaltender on some pretty great teams.  And a pretty mediocre or worse goaltender once he left the safety of those pretty great teams.

It is paramount for Hall of Fame electors to base their decisions on ACTUALLY WATCHING HOCKEY GAMES.  Not just reading the back page of the sports section.  And watching Osgood, he’s never been anything but pretty good over a sustained period of time.  So many of his peers were leaps and bounds ahead of him in terms of talent and ability. 


And if Osgood is going to get in simply on the strength of his Cup rings and total wins, then he can go in after Kevin Lowe does.

Posted by jonquixote on 12/29/10 at 02:44 PM ET

Down River Dan's avatar

That is where Osgood falls short.  The eyeball test.  If you’ve seen him play, it is hard to say he is one of the best ever.


  Using this as a measuring stick, I guess Billy Smith & Gerry Cheevers will have to return their H.O.F rings, because neither of these guys were ever the best of their era.

I guess Cheevers got in because of his mask ? , because it certainly could not have been because of his Wins (230)

Also, I guess Billy Smith got in on the because he played in NY, because his 305 Wins certainly didn’t get him in. Nor did his Shut-Outs (22) or G.A.A (3.17).

Neither Cheevers or Smith were the “best” of their own era either. Esposito & Parent were both better than Cheevers, and Dryden was far better than Smith.

If Ozzie had played his entire career in either NY, Toronto or Montreal he would have so much more media and press that no-one would even question his qualifcations.

Ozzie will eventually get in the H.O.F , but the JA’s who control the admission will no doubt drag their feet ( Dino Ciccarelli ).

Posted by Down River Dan on 12/29/10 at 03:33 PM ET

UMFan's avatar

So many of his peers were leaps and bounds ahead of him in terms of talent and ability.

I can think of only three contemporaries who were better. Hasek, Roy and Brodeur. Ozzy is a better goaltender than Cujo. Moreover, he played better in the important games than Cujo ever did. You might make a case for Belfour, but I wouldn’t put him leaps and bounds ahead of Ozzy.

Posted by UMFan from Denver, Colorado on 12/29/10 at 03:43 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

And a pretty mediocre or worse goaltender once he left the safety of those pretty great teams.

Really? Last season was his first season with a record under .500 and he got the W/L for 16 whole games. 

Even playing the “great teams” card, there’s something to be said for longevity. Not many guys play even half as long as he has, at even a “mediocre” level.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 12/29/10 at 03:45 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

I’ll amend my last post. 06-07with the Wings had an under .500 if you include OTL. So 2 of 17 seasons…and we’ll see how #18 turns out in a few months.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 12/29/10 at 03:50 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

Posted by Down River Dan on 12/29/10 at 01:33 PM ET

Dan, you hit on the thing that makes it tough for me.

If I don’t look at the list of goalies already in the HHOF, and judge Osgood based on the hundreds of games I’ve seen him play, I wouldn’t call him a HOFer.

But when you look at the list of goalies already in, you see a group of guys that Osgood fits right in with.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 12/29/10 at 03:50 PM ET

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But when you look at the list of goalies already in, you see a group of guys that Osgood fits right in with.

Not really a good way of looking at that, imo. If every forward that fit right in with, say, Clark Gillies got into the hall, you’d be letting in 10 guys per year for at least the next two decades. It’s not meant to be the hall of ‘kinda good’.

Posted by StevieSteve on 12/29/10 at 04:34 PM ET

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It would also be helpful if the standards for getting into the hall of fame aren’t so ridiculously high that only 1 goalie every 10-15 years can get in.

This isn’t 10 years ago where NHL goalies are Roy, Hasek, the one other guy hot that year, and then 20-25 other mediocre to outright awful also-rans.  Every season has 10-12 goalies having legitimately great years.

Also, Osgood won 400 games largely in an era where there wasn’t a winner every night and I STILL don’t think we’re going to see more than 1 or 2 more 400 game winners in the next 15 years.  Quick (at only 24) has a good chance, but he’d still have to win 30 games a year through 2021 and age 35 to get there.  Same deal with Carey Price (23).  Pavelec would have to win 30+ a year through 2023 to get there.

Even Fleury, graced by God with having a great team and the worst Conference, would need to win 30+ for another 7 or 8 years to get there.

It’s unlikely Lundqvist will get there.
Miller’s not going to get there.
Ward’s not going to get there.

IMO Luongo’s the only guy who has a better than 50% chance to hit 400, and he still needs 113 more wins at age 31 with 621 career starts on his odometer.

400’s a big number.  IMO 400 wins is like 600 goals.  Heck, I’d bet we see more people hit 600 goals going forward than we will 400 wins.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 12/29/10 at 06:46 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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