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Murray Hit On Franzen Last Night

I’ve returned from Mother’s Day dinner with relatives to see the Douglas Murray hit on Johan Franzen has hit the web.

Your thoughts?

added 8:31pm, for a different angle of the hit, watch the San Jose broadcast clip at Sharkspage.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Detroit Red Wings, San Jose Sharks, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: douglas+murray, johan+franzen

Comments

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Evilpens's avatar

When I 1st saw it to be Honest It thought it was a Penalty ! Then I saw a replay & didn’t think it was a Penalty

Posted by Evilpens on 05/09/10 at 07:20 PM ET

SK77's avatar

shoulder on shoulder – boom!

it’s the freakin’ playoffs. if kronwall or (jebus forbid) big rig would have stepped into someone like that us wings fans would be happier than pigs in uhhh,,, blanket.

yeah.

Posted by SK77 on 05/09/10 at 07:27 PM ET

Chris from NOHS's avatar

Seemed a little late, but the biggest problem I have with this is that this wasn’t called, but tiny nothing plays were regularly called.

Posted by Chris from NOHS from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 05/09/10 at 07:37 PM ET

stayouttamalibu's avatar

Why are you people so blind?  It is clearly NOT shoulder on shoulder.  Pausing it at both the 49 and 59 second mark confirms undeniably from two different angles that Murray’s shoulder is making clear contact with Franzen’s head, and his elbow is down by Franzen’s shoulder.

I wish someone would make a freeze frame pause of this with arrows etc like they did with Kronwall’s hit in Havlat last year for the teal colored glasses crowd.

Posted by stayouttamalibu from California on 05/09/10 at 07:47 PM ET

cvd1's avatar

All of this hubbub over a borderline interference call.  It was a shoulder-to-shoulder hit from the front.  Murray’s shoulder may have hit Franzen’s head in the follow through, but only because Franzen wasn’t looking where he was skating.

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/09/10 at 07:57 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

Blindside hit to the head.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 05/09/10 at 08:03 PM ET

cvd1's avatar

Blindside? because Franzen was looking at the winger he passed it to?

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/09/10 at 08:06 PM ET

cvd1's avatar

I take it back, it wasn’t even interference.  Watching it real time changed my mind.

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/09/10 at 08:09 PM ET

edillac's avatar

I am not an NHL refferee,but I think that hit deserved at least a minor penalty,

but big bussiness demands growth,and the Wings have reached the maximum level of fans and supporters,so there is no fear for the NHL aboute those consumers,but fairweather fans of underachieving franchises could result in fallouts of revenues,merchandise,etc.
how many failed postseasons would a certain fanbase take before turning it’s back on the team

Posted by edillac from isolation on 05/09/10 at 08:16 PM ET

Thag's avatar

Keep your head up, kid.

Posted by Thag from DC on 05/09/10 at 08:24 PM ET

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I wish someone would make a freeze frame pause of this with arrows etc like they did with Kronwall’s hit in Havlat last year for the teal colored glasses crowd.

Ok, let’s assume that it was shoulder on head, what’s your point?  The league cracked down on BLINDSIDE hits to the head, not shoulder hits to the head.  In this case Murray was coming from the net and Franzen was heading towards the net after dropping off a pass, so unless he had his head down watching the pass he should have seen Murray coming.  The refs made the judgement call that Murray gave Franzen a reasonable opportunity to defend himself and thus it is not a penalty.  The new rules protect players who are victims of hits they never have a chance to see coming, and pretty specifically if memory serves, does not protect players who do not protect themselves.  This hit was much closer to interference but the refs have been pretty liberal on both sides when making that type of call in the postseason.  Plus, if you’re going to say Murray deserved a penalty then you’d also have to admit that both Stuart and Franzen earned themselves penalties when they retaliated against Murray later in the game in separate incidents.

Also, great move by Franzen to stay down, showing up the refs as his team faces a 2 on 1 the other way.  Classy.  The Mule might have been a goat had the Sharks scored on that rush.

Posted by RoneFace on 05/09/10 at 08:30 PM ET

Rdwings28's avatar

wish there were one more angle on it, hard to see, but it takes alot to knock out someone his size

Posted by Rdwings28 on 05/09/10 at 08:34 PM ET

Avatar

but big bussiness demands growth,and the Wings have reached the maximum level of fans and supporters,so there is no fear for the NHL aboute those consumers,but fairweather fans of underachieving franchises could result in fallouts of revenues,merchandise,etc.
how many failed postseasons would a certain fanbase take before turning it’s back on the team

For those in the tin foil hat society who constantly feel like their team is not respected enough by meda and fans, and can’t understand why, this is why.  You show no class in defeat and are completely unable to admit that someone might have just been better than the Wings.  Display a little humility in defeat, maybe a little grace in victory, and some of us might stop rolling our eyes when we see or hear references “hockey town.”

Posted by RoneFace on 05/09/10 at 08:35 PM ET

Chris from NOHS's avatar

I have some screencaps and analysis here:

http://nightmareonhelmstreet.com/2010-articles/may/headshot-on-franzen-legal.html

clearly a headshot, but maybe legal.

Posted by Chris from NOHS from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 05/09/10 at 08:43 PM ET

Moq's avatar

In real time it isn’t a conspicuously late hit, and the hit itself isn’t illegal according to the current ruleset. There have been several similar examples put to the vote here, most of them without punishment to the perpetrator during the game. All in all, I think the hit was within the guidelines applied by the league for most of the season. It’s a bit too late for my taste, but I’m just a soft European.

Posted by Moq from Denmark on 05/09/10 at 08:46 PM ET

Rdwings28's avatar

Roneface, bite me, it was blatant. Opportunities were CREATED. Inconsiticies were abundant.  Be objective.

Posted by Rdwings28 on 05/09/10 at 08:54 PM ET

cvd1's avatar

I think the Detroit announcers want it the way it was in period 1 of Game 4 when the Sharks left Franzen free to roam the offensive zone.

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/09/10 at 08:54 PM ET

Avatar

Last time I checked, when you lose the fourth game, the series is over.  That fourth win was last night.  Sooo there’s probably not much you can do or say that will change what happened.

For all you Chicken Wing fans out there, get a freakin’ life.  You’re team lost.  Get over it.  I think the majority of true hockey fans out there who watched this series would agree that the better team won.  I keep hearing “the playoffs is for closers.”  You’re team couldn’t close, which is why you lost.  You couldn’t contain the Sharks when it mattered most (see game 3), and now you’re content to sit here and whine about the officiating and what a joke the league as a whole has become.  Go piss up a flag pole.

You sit here and complain that there should have been a call on the play.  It’s playoff hockey, it’s supposed to be more intense and harder hitting.  If you can’t take it, then you don’t belong in the post season.  Besides I’m not sure you would have done much with a power play judging from what I saw in the last few minutes of the game where your precious Wings had a 6 on 4 power play and couldn’t even control the puck.  Heaven forbid the hockey gods didn’t smile upon their wonderful baby, the Detroit Red Wings for once.  You make me SICK.

“Display a little humility in defeat, maybe a little grace in victory, and some of us might stop rolling our eyes when we see or hear references “hockey town.””

Yeah, what he said.

Posted by IBleedteal19 on 05/09/10 at 09:06 PM ET

Avatar

Was it any different than when Franzen clearly targeted Murray’s head 5 minutes later?  Seems like the Mule doled out his own justice so why dont we just leave it at that.  Always message board drama with these things( and usually kicked up a notch by posters who watched the clip but didnt see the game)

Posted by eerodynamic on 05/09/10 at 09:07 PM ET

Avatar

Roneface, bite me, it was blatant. Opportunities were CREATED. Inconsiticies were abundant.  Be objective.

Which part was blatant?  Where Franzen watched his pass?  Where Murray annihilated him?  Maybe the part where Franzen stayed down like he had been shot, showing up the refs and giving up an odd man rush, only to make a miraculous comeback moments later?  Yeah, it was probably that last part that was so blatant.  For a supposedly big and strong Mule, dude does lays on the ice and complains a lot.

Posted by RoneFace on 05/09/10 at 09:14 PM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

shoulder on shoulder

you people are *#$%@& blind.

it was a clear hit to the head.  something the league has paid lip service to but done nothing about.

it was a horrible missed call.  his head was targeted, that is blindly obvious.

and no, it’s not some conspiracy against the Wings.  it’s just plain incompetent, HIGHLY incompetent, officiating - like the refs missing it when Nabokov clearly played the puck through the corner “no-play” zone.  it was blatant and obvious.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/09/10 at 09:27 PM ET

Greg's avatar

The funny thing is, stayouttamalibu is complaining the refs missed a call, and his argument is that he needs to get everyone to believe him by looking at screencaps, and super slow mo….

Think about that.  This is a sport played at 20+kms an hour, so with that, I’m willing to let the refs pass with missing some occasionally.  Escpecially if the only way to truly know if its a head shot or not, is to look at it frame by frame.

Just stop whining, everyone is laughing at you and your comments.

Posted by Greg on 05/09/10 at 10:08 PM ET

Rdwings28's avatar

the whole series, idiot, not just the last call….

Posted by Rdwings28 on 05/09/10 at 10:14 PM ET

Avatar

Post the Sharks broadcast review of the hit for some perspective.  The video you have linked does not have a good angle.  The Sharks also reviewed it after the commercial break and it was clearly a clean shoulder to shoulder hit.  Franzen lay on the ice like he did in hopes of drawing a penalty.  If it had been a head hit he would not have been sitting up on the bench just fine after a 60 second commercia breakl.  We hockey fans are a passionate bunch, no question about it.  We all love our teams, but please look at video that shows the hit from an angle that you can actually see the hit and not just make assumptions

Posted by jpsf on 05/09/10 at 10:22 PM ET

Paul's avatar

jpsf, if you have a link, I would be happy to post it.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 05/09/10 at 10:23 PM ET

Chris from NOHS's avatar

Dear Sharks fans, congrats on the series win, but you don’t get the Cup yet.  I know it is crazy, but there are two more of these series left.

Posted by Chris from NOHS from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 05/09/10 at 10:24 PM ET

Avatar

Sharkspage has a clip from the CSN feed.

http://www.sharkspage.com/?p=372

Posted by RoneFace on 05/09/10 at 10:28 PM ET

Paul's avatar

Thanks RF.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 05/09/10 at 10:31 PM ET

cvd1's avatar

Sharkspage has a clip from the CSN feed.

http://www.sharkspage.com/?p=372

Posted by RoneFace on 05/09/10 at 08:28 PM ET

It’s obvious that the NHL league office doctored that video tape during the TV timeout as a part of the vast conspiracy against Red Wing fans.  After accidentally allowing Detroit to make the Finals in the past two years, they were sure not to make that mistake again.

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/09/10 at 10:46 PM ET

John W.'s avatar

What’s sad isn’t Wings fans being passionate about their team, but other teams “fans” always so worried about what we say and do.  Us get a life?  Please, all you other fans do on this site is wait for a Wings fans to say anything, and then jump all over us for being arrogant and whiners.  Yet when something happens to your team, you all say the same stuff.  Setoguchi gets whacked in the hand and acts like he got shot in the face, but we were just whiners for saying he dove, now Franzen get’s shouldered in the head and we’re yet again whiners?  Funny how that works, isn’t it?  Hypocrites.

Worry about your own damn team.  We’ll see how much you guys whine when you play Chicago and they get all the calls you guys got this series.

Posted by John W. from a bubble wrap cocoon on 05/09/10 at 11:05 PM ET

Avatar

Sharkspage has a clip from the CSN feed.

http://www.sharkspage.com/?p=372


From that look, you can tell Franzen saw it coming and even led with his own shoulder to try and knock Murray on his rump.  Sadly “the mule” was out-muled on this play and stayed down to draw the penalty.  No call was the right call.

Posted by IBleedteal19 on 05/09/10 at 11:23 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

Whew…the silence is deafening around here, now.

Haha.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 05/09/10 at 11:45 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

No, not a good hit.  He hit Franzen’s head.  You’re going to see what you want to see and Wings fans will see what they want to see.  There is no clear answer regarding so many hits to the head and that’s the whole damn problem—one person’s “good hit” is another’s “five-minute major.”  To me, that’s a head shot, no question about it, and Drew Remenda doesn’t change my mind.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 05/10/10 at 12:01 AM ET

George Malik's avatar

Then again, Sharks fans sure as hell know how to tell a dive from going “down to draw a penalty”...Flopping fish, from Setoguchi to that whiny baby Thornton.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 05/10/10 at 12:04 AM ET

Avatar

Paul,
I didn’t have a link and am operating only on a netbook right now so searching could have taken me a week grin. I just knew that the CSN view was pretty clear and from the other angle.

Thank goodness for PJ and Sharkspage and as you know he is one of the least biased bloggers out there.
JP

Posted by jpsf on 05/10/10 at 12:06 AM ET

PaulinMiamiBeach's avatar

how can anyone say this is a shoulder to shoulder hit?

the red arrows point to the black stripe inside two white stripes on Murray’s arm and his teammate’s arm.  if it’s shoulder to shoulder, why is it that Murray’s armband is hitting the F in Franzen’s name?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/10/10 at 12:37 AM ET

cvd1's avatar

Red arrows aside and even if Murray’s shoulder made contact with Franzen’s head, the accountability of Franzen is for some reason being ignored in your analysis.  Lead with your head down while skating towards a checking D-man will result in your head getting hit.  This is why the league only outlaws “lateral, back-side pressure, or blindside hits” to the head.

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/10/10 at 01:12 AM ET

Avatar

The Screen capture shows nothing because the areas that matter are out of the picture.

It’s time to move past it.  It’s over.  There was no conspiracy.  As a Sharks fan I know the feeling well.  It hurts and its awful .  What your fans are saying about our team has been said about the Wings for years.  It’s the nature of the losing side.  They dive, they cheat, they get all the calls.  They must have bought someone off.  I could go on and on and yet it doesnt change the outcome.  I know, I have been there way too many times.

Posted by jpsf on 05/10/10 at 01:19 AM ET

stayouttamalibu's avatar

The funny thing is, stayouttamalibu is complaining the refs missed a call, and his argument is that he needs to get everyone to believe him by looking at screencaps, and super slow mo….

Think about that.  This is a sport played at 20+kms an hour, so with that, I’m willing to let the refs pass with missing some occasionally.  Escpecially if the only way to truly know if its a head shot or not, is to look at it frame by frame.

Just stop whining, everyone is laughing at you and your comments.

Posted by Greg on 05/09/10 at 08:08 PM ET

No, the reason that I’m saying we need screencaps is because some people here seem to be blind or so anti-Wings that no matter what they are just stubbornly denying what is clearly visible.  I and many, many other people can clearly see in real time, with no slo-mos or screencaps, that it was a blatant head shot.  Yes, the game is fast, but there are FOUR paid officials on the ice whose job is to do exactly what you’re saying is hard to do - see those types of things.  Sure, it’s hard to see every little thing, but it’s not like this was something tiny, it is a collision between two huge men.  It is literally their job and they messed this one up.  Also, if the refs didn’t happen to see it at all, shouldn’t that point to the fact that it was a late hit?  If the hit was totally clean and on time, wouldn’t the refs have all been staring straight at it because the puck and play were right there?  But no, Franzen passed the puck and it had already been played by his teammate by the time the hit was made.  In fact, Franzen passed the puck away, and THEN Murray started his windup and made the hit.  He was not “finishing his check”.  He literally hadn’t even started his check when Franzen made the pass.  The pass was made, and then you can clearly see Murray wind up and go in for the hit.  Finishing your check is continuing with a check you had already started. 

To echo what someone else said, no matter what Wings fans say, it’s whining or complaining.  The fact is, it was a clear headshot - and that’s all we are saying.  Nobody is saying this hit cost us the series.  The Sharks outplayed the Wings at times and were often the hungrier team, but that doesn’t change this situation one bit.  Right now we are simply talking about one specific play.  You people are just so anti-Wings that you just deny, deny, deny no matter what - even when we are saying something legitimate and even if it makes you look stupid, which it does.  You’re not seeing us deny the payback hit Stuart delivered later in the period, and I don’t agree that he should have done it.  My only opinion about it is that I believe Stuart wouldn’t have done it had the play been penalized like it should have been. 

Lastly, the CSN clip from that Sharks page shows precisely what we have been saying and in no way is what that site is saying it is.  It cleanly shows Murray’s elbow making contact with Franzen’s shoulder.  Wait a sec…if his elbow is making contact with Franzen’s shoulder, how could it be a shoulder to shoulder hit?  In that clip you can see his shoulder impact Franzen’s head and his elbow impact Franzen’s shoulder.  End of story.

Posted by stayouttamalibu from California on 05/10/10 at 01:32 AM ET

cvd1's avatar

http://vimeo.com/11609377

Detroit fans better skip this post

Posted by cvd1 from San Diego, CA on 05/10/10 at 01:55 AM ET

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