Kukla's Korner

Iced Coffey

How about taking one for the team, Tim?

Look, goalies always have been a tad “different, so is it shocking that Tim Thomas opted not to visit the White House the other day with the Boston Bruins? No. And truth be told I could really care less if Thomas went or not. I’m fairly certain the rest of the Bruins players, coaches and staff enjoyed what had to be a special day. Regardless if you’re a Democrat, Republican, independent or whatever, it must be pretty cool to get a special tour of the White House and meet the President.

And I’m also pretty sure President Barack Obama didn’t give a tinker’s cuss if Tim Thomas was there or not. He has far bigger fish to fry than to worry about a recalcitrant goaltender.

But what happened to the concept of taking one for the team? And what of civility in general?

Thanks to freedom of speech in the United States, an awful lot of us have been able to make livings in journalism and everyone can make his or her opinion known. So I’m all for Thomas speaking his mind. And his thoughts about the government are not without merit or discussion. Here is his Facebook statement.

“I believe the Federal government has grown out of control, threatening the Rights, Liberties, and Property of the People.

This is being done at the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial level. This is in direct opposition to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers vision for the Federal government.

Because I believe this, today I exercised my right as a Free Citizen, and did not visit the White House. This was not about politics or party, as in my opinion both parties are responsible for the situation we are in as a country. This was about a choice I had to make as an INDIVIDUAL.

This is the only public statement I will be making on this topic. TT”

There is no gag order on Tim Thomas, except his self-imposed one. But sorry Tim, by creating a tempest in a teapot by skipping the visit, posting your reasons on Facebook, and then declining all comment on the situation you created is ill-advised at best and disingenuous at worst. If you have the courage of your convictions, that’s great. If you have strong opinions, equally great. Folks generally don’t like to hear about religion (see Tim Tebow) or politics (now see Tim Thomas) in sports, but that shouldn’t muzzle anyone either.

Still, Thomas has been around the world of microphones and newspaper notebooks long enough to know that taking a stand like he did wasn’t going to just go away. He already has explained his political feelings, be it Tea Party, Garden Party or Birthday Party, so how about explaining why his responsibilities to his teammates took a back seat to shining the spotlight on himself? He had to know that was the likely outcome.

Being a part of a team means you give up a bit of yourself for the betterment of the group. Now keep in mind that probably every player on the Bruins at one point in his playing career was the best guy on the ice, be it squirts, bantams, juniors, etc. But guys sacrifice the ego that comes with being a top athlete to be part of a team. If that means playing five minutes in a game, so be it. So, would it really have been that distasteful to take the tour and pose for a photo? Heck, he could have told the President his views in person!

The Bruins have been pretty supportive of Thomas in the wake of his decision, so he is fortunate there and it sounds like everyone enjoyed the opportunity to celebrate the Stanley Cup championship one more time.

“It is what it is,” Bruins winger Milan Lucic told the Boston Globe. “I don’t think it really matters what I think about it. I still enjoyed the day and took part in the opportunity. I know the other guys that were there had a lot of fun. It’s something that I, personally, will remember for the rest of my life.”

As with everything else, this too will blow over. The Bruins will focus on repeating as Stanley Cup champs and Thomas will play a big role in that effort. Maybe it’s just a case of a goalie being different, but you can’t help but think it also could be a case of a player being selfish and creating a situation that could easily have been avoided.

Double standard?—Where’s the “other” suspension? The one Alex Ovechkin figured to get for skipping the All-Star Game. Didn’t Nick Lidstrom and Pavel Datsyuk in essence earn one-game suspensions for skipping the All-Star Game a while back? How come Ovechkin gets to skate by not skating this time?

I’m not blaming Ovechkin, who was suspended for three games for a hit on Pittsburgh’s Zbynek Michalek the other night? You can see where he isn’t of a mind to do the NHL a favor by appearing in the all-star festivities on the heels of a suspension he doesn’t think he deserves.

“My heart is not there. I got suspended, so why (do) I have to go there?” he told reporters Tuesday. “I love the (All-Star) game. It’s a great event. I love to be there.”

But ...

“I feel I’m not deserving to be there right now,” Ovechkin said. “If I’m suspended, I have to be suspended.”

Ovechkin has made the All-Star Game and the skills competition fun. He isn’t above doing goofy things and trying wild passes and shots in a format that cries out for more fun stuff. He is one of the faces that sells the NHL brand and to not have him there makes the whole exercise all the more trivial.

And, he’s not suspended for the All-Star Game. So, in essence, he got his revenge for the suspension by hurting the league at its annual gathering of sponsors and partners. But back to the original point. If Lidstrom and Datsyuk were suspended for skipping the All-Star Game, how come Ovechkin isn’t? So much for precedent and consistency, eh?

Sounds like the NHL figured this was a battle not worth fighting. Ovechkin does an awful lot to sell the sport, so tacking on a suspension for skipping out on Ottawa may well be penny wise, but pound foolish.

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly had this to say in a statement released to the media: “In light of yesterday’s suspension, we informed the Capitals that, while Alex Ovechkin was still welcome to participate in this weekend’s All Star festivities in Ottawa, we would not be insisting that he do so. We now understand that Alex has decided to withdraw from this weekend’s events. Given the circumstances involved, we understand Mr. Ovechkin’s decision in this regard and have no intention of pursuing this matter further.”

Sounds like a case of picking your battles.

Let’s be clear, Ovechkin should not be above discipline because he is a superstar. And he needs to remember that as a repeat offender he shouldn’t do the crime if he can’t do the time. But in this case, since no penalty was initially called for the hit, Ovechkin isn’t happy with the suspension decision, so the NHL can lump it with his all-star decision.

“I don’t believe I deserve to get a three-game suspension for the hit that I did,” Ovechkin told reporters. “I was disappointed, actually. ... All my career it’s going to be like that. My game is (to) play physical. My game is (to) play hard. I don’t think it was a bad hit, dirty hit.”

And he is making his point about it quite emphatically.

Filed in: | Iced Coffey | Permalink
  Tags: alex+ovechkin, boston+bruins, tim+thomas, washington+capitals

Comments

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Keyser S.'s avatar

Take on for the team? How about take one for our country!

The sheep mentality in this country is what got us where we’re at today. Many folk feel the way Thomas does, but have no outlet to share their feelings or are too lazy too.

Where would this country be today if not for folk criticisicing our government? We’d be eating english muffins right now…..wait…uh nevermind.

Posted by Keyser S. on 01/25/12 at 02:09 PM ET

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How about respecting someone’s personal principles, Everyone?

Posted by Garth on 01/25/12 at 02:11 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

AMEN!! Garth

Posted by Evilpens on 01/25/12 at 02:13 PM ET

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Where would this country be today if not for folk criticisicing our government?

pretty sure when people criticized the last guy in office, the other side told them that they needed to respect the office even if they didnt respect the man (and some times called them unamerican or socialists)

just saying…

boy, i cant wait till wait till i can go back to visiting kk to get away from political news

Posted by jwad on 01/25/12 at 02:18 PM ET

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boy, i cant wait till wait till i can go back to visiting kk to get away from political news

Once you’re here for a while you’ll realize that, even with all the emails telling you that you HAVE TO, you really don’t have to click on any articles you aren’t interested.

Paul can be a terrifying dictator if you let him be, but maybe you should take a page out of Tim Thomas’s book and stand up for your principles by not clicking on blog entries that may offend you.

Posted by Garth on 01/25/12 at 02:27 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by jwad on 01/25/12 at 12:18 PM ET

I’m getting a headache.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 02:35 PM ET

Keyser S.'s avatar

pretty sure when people criticized the last guy in office, the other side told them that they needed to respect the office even if they didnt respect the man (and some times called them unamerican or socialists)

Posted by jwad on 01/25/12 at 12:18 PM ET

If you read his comments, he’s not criticising the guy in office. He’s criticising politicians and the direction of this country.

There are no sides in this matter. You’re either a sheep or not a sheep. Thomas is not a sheep.

Posted by Keyser S. on 01/25/12 at 02:36 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

I have a headache too.
Just one thought:  Wow Coffey.  What an original write-up.  You sure took a different tack than all those other writers.  Just really felt compelled to raise your hand and be counted in the moral majority I guess.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 01/25/12 at 03:06 PM ET

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If you read his comments, he’s not criticising the guy in office. He’s criticising politicians and the direction of this country.

Maybe i read between the lines too much that the guy expressing his views on an “out of control government” probably wasnt a big fan of any democratic president. Sorry.

I just find it ironic that every article about this, there are a bunch of comments defending TT’s opinion, by basically bashing the writers or anyone that disagrees or has an opinion of there own.  And, that these same types of arguments were used by opposite sides a few years back.

I resprect his opinion, but i think its too bad that things are so polarized that people cant have differing opinions without name calling, or that someone would feel like they have to turn down the invite to an event honoring their team because of their views.

Posted by jwad on 01/25/12 at 03:19 PM ET

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I just find it ironic that every article about this, there are a bunch of comments defending TT’s opinion, by basically bashing the writers or anyone that disagrees or has an opinion of there own.  And, that these same types of arguments were used by opposite sides a few years back.

Do you think the hockey media were the ones defending Bush against his attackers?

I resprect his opinion, but i think its too bad that things are so polarized that people cant have differing opinions without name calling, or that someone would feel like they have to turn down the invite to an event honoring their team because of their views.

I’m curious how you can justify comparing name-calling to quietly declining an invitation to an event.

Posted by Garth on 01/25/12 at 03:45 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

I happen to think Coffey struck the nail square on the head, to the point that I have nothing express other than my agreement.  Good write up.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 03:51 PM ET

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i didn’t say Thomas was calling anyone names.

but there have been names used in this thread.  by people requesting that others respect thomas’s opinion

Posted by jwad on 01/25/12 at 03:53 PM ET

OlderThanChelios's avatar

Mark Twain once wrote: “Support your country always. Support your government when it deserves it.”

Given Thomas’ statement about his beliefs, he clearly supports his country. And given his actions, he clearly has a problem with our governing bodies in general.

By refusing to be part of the White House’s annual Stanley Cup dog and pony show, he focused attention on the two things that Twain was talking about. Good for him.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids, MI on 01/25/12 at 04:08 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Here’s all the ways Tim Thomas screwed up, according to my research:

1. He DISRESPECTED THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENCY by politely declining an invitation to an event (let’s not get confused about where all the attention on this story came from - Tim Thomas told his GM MONTHS ago that he wasn’t going to be going; the media forced the hand of a private citizen being forced to give an explanation).  Don’t get this wrong, people - you CAN politely decline an invitation to meet the President of the U.S. This is what’s great about being an American. 

2. He WASN’T THERE TO SUPPORT HIS TEAM! ... because as any Bruins player will tell you, Tim Thomas doesn’t have their backs and a man’s personal principles should trump his professional associates. There’s a lot of people getting offended for his Bruins teammates around here when I’ve yet to see anything from his teammates that have asked any of you to feel that way for them. Seriously… find me a single Bruins player who feels that Thomas isn’t going to do everything in his power to help them win and I’ll find you the first guy who needs to be traded out of Boston.

3. HE BROKE TEAM RULES BY SKIPPING A TEAM FUNCTION! - which, again, he told Chiarelli about MONTHS ago and Chiarelli decided to allow this. Did Tim Thomas ask for and receive special treatment by the Bruins?  YES!  OF COURSE HE DID! - congratulations! Your beef is now with Peter Chiarelli, they guy who allowed it. 

4. TIM THOMAS HAS FORCED THE HAND OF HIS TEAMMATES AND OF HIS GM TO MAKE EVERYTHING ALL ABOUT HIM BECAUSE HE SPECIFICALLY KNEW HOW THE MEDIA AND FANS WOULD REACT AND STILL ACTED THE WAY HE DID… THEREFORE INTENTIONALLY CAUSING AN UPROAR - Yeah… and?  Tim Thomas is in control of what Tim Thomas does. Everybody else is in control of how they react to it.  Here’s the thing.  If I tell you that I will kick one puppy down a flight of stairs for every hour that passes between now and when you show up at my house wearing a karate gi carrying a brass harmonica ready to sing a rousing rendition of “feliz cumpleaños” to my pet rock, then you are well-aware of what will happen if you respectfully decline my offer.  Does that make you responsible for all of those puppies who are going to get kicked down the stairs?  If you said “yes” to that question, then I hate you.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/25/12 at 04:25 PM ET

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Sorry my opinion wasn’t radical enough for you TuxedoTshirt, I’ll try to make you happy next time. Ha!

And JJ, I must say your last point has left me speechless. Congratulations!

Posted by pcoffey on 01/25/12 at 05:03 PM ET

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Posted by OlderThanChelios on 01/25/12 at 02:08 PM ET

This thing here.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/25/12 at 02:25 PM ET

And all of these, too.

Posted by Garth on 01/25/12 at 05:14 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/25/12 at 02:25 PM ET

1.) On your first point, you’re of course right.  It is possible to politely decline an invitation from any person.  The choice Thomas made may not offend your sense of propriety, and to the extent that some folks around here think it was fine on Thomas’ part to use the opportunity to exercise his rights; I understand your view point. 

Some of us, and I include myself in this group, find it impertinent and discourteous to slap away the hand of someone who wants to pay you a compliment.  Within the scope of common courtesy, Thomas has acted rather tastelessly.  I don’t really give damn (within the context of this paragraph) whether or not he was conservatively or liberally motivated, or if he thinks “Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome” is american allegory.  A bigger person, in my opinion, can suck it up and pay back the same respect someone has paid him or her. 

2-3).  I don’t take issue with your second and third points.  Thomas went though the proper channels.  I would say that anyone who disagrees with that is uninformed.

4.) I don’t really think Thomas wanted it to be all about him, but that was the result of this actions.  You can blame the media and people who think the way I do about this for the uproar if you want.  However, I think Thomas knows that he doesn’t exist in a vacuum.  Whether the resulting “scandal” was intentional or not, it isn’t unreasonable to question the amount of thought Thomas put in to the whole affair. 

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————

As for the “respect Thomas’ opinion” crowd on this thread:

There is a major distinction between respecting someone’s right to his or her opinion, and respecting the opinion itself.  Please brush up on your Voltaire.

You might think there is an invisible dragon in your garage, and I’ll defend your right to that opinion.  That isn’t going to stop me from thinking that your high.

The same rules apply to the way I think about Tim Thomas’ opinion.  No amount of shouting back at me is going to change that.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 05:26 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

Extreme example J.J.; me likey.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 01/25/12 at 05:28 PM ET

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Double standard?—Where’s the “other” suspension?

New regime.

I can’t imagine Shanny and Blake, the players, were all that thrilled to see Lidstrom and Datsyuk suspended over something so dumb, or even the spectre of Crosby hobbling around on crutches gladhanding a bunch of jerks at suspension-point, when he should have been rehabbing his leg with the Physical Therapist. If I’m one of those two, I’m thinking those guys could’ve been me.

This regime’s attitude? OV doesn’t want to go? Fine. Screw him. Hartnell and Neal will be thrilled and they’re both better this year anyway. Much better way to deal with situations like this.

Still think Moulson needs to get in there somehow.

Posted by larry from pitt on 01/25/12 at 05:31 PM ET

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I’m doing a google search for Theo Epstein, Bush and the Red Sox to see the number of articles written about the snub, compared to Tim Thomas.

Now I am looking up Muhammad Ali and the number of accolades for taking a stand.  I just want to make sure I have enough data before taking a position on tim Thomas.

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 01/25/12 at 06:03 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

@ Coffey…...Don’t apologize man.  You are a great writer.  I am just disappointed in the punditry.  Everyone has endorsed the prescribed view while imagining that their reasoning is original; while at the same time, making the illogical claim that they support his right, but not his using it.  That’s my only beef.  Double-think; supporting a right means actually supporting it….admonishing the guy is the opposite.  Reading your article over again, I remain disappointed.  There is nothing new here.  And I consider it disingenuous.  You say, “it would be pretty cool to visit the white house”, as though that were self-evident.  Thomas obviously doesn’t agree.  Does he owe it to the people that do think its cool?
On the other hand, if I was a Bruin fan, I would be troubled, politics aside; I think you make that “consequences for the team” argument pretty well.
  I really did not ask for you to somehow be a radical. 
(Also,  you seem to imply that he wasn’t prepared for the reaction; maybe he just considered the consequences worth it.)

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 01/25/12 at 06:07 PM ET

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Some of us, and I include myself in this group, find it impertinent and discourteous to slap away the hand of someone who wants to pay you a compliment.

So it’s possibly to politely decline an invitation, but doing so is to slap away the hand?

I don’t think you compehend what “politely declining” something is.

However, I think Thomas knows that he doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

Certainly he doesn’t, but he has principles that he stuck to and he did so in the quietest, most polite way possible.

If the only reason to not stick to his principles is that some people might question them, then there is no reason to not stick to his principles.

There is a major distinction between respecting someone’s right to his or her opinion, and respecting the opinion itself.

Fine, but there’s also a major distinction between politely declining an invitation and disrespecting someone too.  A lot of people refuse to make that distinction or accept that there is one.

Posted by Garth on 01/25/12 at 06:12 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

So it’s possibly to politely decline an invitation, but doing so is to slap away the hand?

I don’t think you compehend what “politely declining” something is.

If you read carefully Garth, you’ll see that I said whether or not you think its rude is a matter of personal opinion.  I also said I understand where those who disagree with me are coming from.  However, Thomas’ behavior doesn’t square with my sense of propriety.  Do I need to phrase it more monosyllabically for you?

Certainly he doesn’t, but he has principles that he stuck to and he did so in the quietest, most polite way possible.

Not really.  Tuuka Rask is a capable back up.  If it meant that much to Tim Thomas not to attend, he could have come down with “flu like symptoms” for a day or two.  If Thomas feels so strongly that he couldn’t go to the White House, thats fine I guess, I think its stupid.  But lets not kid ourselves that he declined without meaning to send a message, a message he could have delivered on FB any day, any time. 

If the only reason to not stick to his principles is that some people might question them, then there is no reason to not stick to his principles.

True enough, that doesn’t mean you have to shout fire in a movie theatre to get your point across.

Fine, but there’s also a major distinction between politely declining an invitation and disrespecting someone too.  A lot of people refuse to make that distinction or accept that there is one.

Posted by Garth on 01/25/12 at 04:12 PM ET

I agree with you.  However, what Tim Thomas did was not very polite in the eyes of a lot of people.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 09:32 PM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Not really.  Tuuka Rask is a capable back up.  If it meant that much to Tim Thomas not to attend, he could have come down with “flu like symptoms” for a day or two.

So…you want someone to stand up for his principals and personal integrity by lying?

Really?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a very long time.

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/25/12 at 09:52 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/25/12 at 07:52 PM ET

Jesus Christ.  Can you people read? 

Garth said that Thomas bowed out in the politest way possible.  I was only illustrating that if Thomas wanted to skip out he didn’t have to start a shit storm to do it.  It wasn’t a serious suggestion.

Once Thomas chose to make the event his venue for a political statement, his reasons for declining were no longer polite.  I only proffered that hypothetical to show that Thomas had alternative courses of action available to him.  Alrighty?

I’m not going to agree that Thomas can go in for a slam dunk remark on the US government in this given situation and be polite about it at the same time. You can’t have it both ways. 

Did Thomas mitigate the rudeness of the situation? Sure, I suppose.  But that doesn’t change the fact he pulled a dick to move in order to make a statement in a petty way.  If he really wanted to be polite about missing the event, he had a myriad of excuses available to him.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 10:18 PM ET

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@Forlorn, he’s just butthurt that Timmeh didn’t want to shake the Obmessiah’s hand is all and grasping for straws at this point.

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 10:20 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

@Forlorn, he’s just butthurt that Timmeh didn’t want to shake the Obmessiah’s hand is all and grasping for straws at this point.

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 08:20 PM ET

I guess if I were as dull and solipsistic as you are, being a redundant, slavish boor wouldn’t get old for me either. 

By the way, I’m still waiting for you to create a profile and convince me privately that your opinions can draw any water.  You must be afraid to learn something.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 10:26 PM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Jesus Christ.  Can you people read?

I can read just fine.  You did not indicate in that post that it was not a serious suggestion .

his reasons for declining were no longer polite.

What?  No, seriously, what?  It doesn’t matter what his reasons for declining were.  Reasons are not polite, nor rude.  Actions and words are polite or rude. 

I only proffered that hypothetical to show that Thomas had alternative courses of action available to him.

The only course of action required of him was to inform his boss that he was not going.  He did that MONTHS ago.  As far as I am concerned, the real villains in this story are the media making a mountain out of a molehill and the Boston Bruins PR department, who should have issued a statement prior to the visit that Thomas would not attend for “personal reasons” and then everyone other than Thomas should have had “NO COMMENT” for every question.  This absolutely should have been handled differently by the Bruins. 

I’m not going to agree that Thomas can go in for a slam dunk remark on the US government in this given situation and be polite about it at the same time. You can’t have it both ways.

I have no idea what you mean by this.  His statement was worded politely.  You can disagree with the content of his statement, but that doesn’t make it rude.

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/25/12 at 10:54 PM ET

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Isn’t worth the time because you do what most liberals do when confronted, change the subject, or hurl insults. And when all else fails play the race card like the remark about his 3 daughter’s names all starting with K.  (do the math)

Good on Thomas for standing up for his beliefs, and skipping out on a pointless photo op that the “TEAM” he supposedly isn’t taking one for, knew months in advance.

Can you honestly say we’re better off then we were 3 and a half years ago? The economy is still a disaster even after Obama had 2 full years of his cronies being in power to attempt to balance a budget. Unemployment is still through the roof.

Spending is still completely out of control (and really that’s both parties on that point) Obama still blames the GOP or Bush for every failure he makes.

How is Tim Thomas wrong? Government has gotten way too large and is spending us into oblivion, (Both sides)

Still however I’d like to know when Obama, being our current president take any responsibility? He’s the commander in chief isn’t he? Isn’t it time to stop blaming Bush?

I’ll give him one thing, he made the right call on going after Bin Laden when we had solid intel on where he was.  He’s also made the right call on pulling our troops out of Iraq, though really he’s using Bush’s original time table yet taking the credit for it.

Other than that, he’s not followed through on one campaign promise, Gitmo is still open, Our border is still wide open, And both of his illegal alien relatives are still here leaching off the system. And the Washington lobbyist still have all the power. Really how’s that hopey changy shit working out there? Good?

The man has been a terrible president and putting Abe Lincoln quotes for his SoTU address isn’t going to win him any conservative votes. 

Not that anyone on the GOP side has anything better to offer. Face it, It’s not We the People anymore, it’s We the Lobbyist and We the Corporate Campaign funders.

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 11:05 PM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 09:05 PM ET

You paraphrased Palin.  I’m seriously side-eying you right now.

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/25/12 at 11:20 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

I can read just fine.  You did not indicate in that post that it was not a serious suggestion .

Given that the remark was made in response to Garth’s claim that Thomas declined in the politest way possible, it seemed to me that would be reasonably inferable.  My mistake.

What?  No, seriously, what?  It doesn’t matter what his reasons for declining were.  Reasons are not polite, nor rude.  Actions and words are polite or rude. 

Reasons can most definitely be rude.  I’ll go with the assumption that I don’t have to hash that one out.

I’m just trying to say that Timmy doesn’t get to have his cake and eat too.  Its rude to snub someone who is trying to congratulate you just so you can put a point on a vague political remark.

If he doesn’t agree with Obama (or anyone else in politics) to the point that he doesn’t want to meet them, he and the Bruins can give any excuse in the world for Thomas’ absence, as you pointed out.  No real harm, no real foul.  However, that changes once you’ve declined the invitation and turned it into a vehicle for a political remark.

Thomas made this situation political with his facebook post.  Yes, it is true that the press and the Bruins had their hand it.  The Bruins could have cited personal reasons (incidentally Thomas could have as well), but going on Garth’s reasoning (which is what I have been responding to (which is probably contributing to our misunderstanding), then Thomas wouldn’t be standing by his principles anymore.  So this is what I have been trying to address, evidently unsuccessfully.

To me, once Thomas made his comments, all chances of this of stuff being just an innocuous misunderstanding went away.  If anyone really believes that Thomas did all this innocently or in ignorance of the consequences in the press, than I have some waterfront property in New Mexico to sell.

The complaining about the press reaction to this is annoying me too.  When my dog barks at a stranger walking down the alley that runs past my house, it doesn’t surprise or annoy me.  He’s a dog, and thats his job.  On the same token, I’m not going to get that annoyed at the press for doing theirs as well.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 11:25 PM ET

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Oh c’mon favorite ex girlfriend. That quote is FUNNAY! And true heh.  Oh doncha know and all that.

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 11:26 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Isn’t worth the time because you do what most liberals do when confronted, change the subject, or hurl insults.

Try me.  I think also, that on the whole you’ve been doing the lion’s share of slandering and insulting.  The record of our comments will bear that out.

How is Tim Thomas wrong? Government has gotten way too large and is spending us into oblivion…

I haven’t been attempting to evaluate the merit or value of Thomas’ opinions.  Just his tact.  If you want to discuss the efficacy of Obama’s policies, I’ve already suggested a venue for you and I to have that discussion.

It’s not We the People anymore, it’s We the Lobbyist and We the Corporate Campaign funders.

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 09:05 PM ET

Well, at last you and I have found common ground.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 11:33 PM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Posted by bezukov from South of Detroit on 01/25/12 at 09:25 PM ET

Our main disagreement seems to be whether it was rude or not.  Since you believe that reasons can be rude (which, frankly, baffles me)...I think we should just agree to disagree. 

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/25/12 at 09:26 PM ET

Sweet talk will get you no where.  I’m still side-eyeing and judging you HARD.

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/25/12 at 11:42 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/25/12 at 09:42 PM ET

If I farted on your sandwich, and did it just piss you off, wouldn’t that be rude?

Anyway.  Agree to disagree.  Sorry I blew up at you earlier.  My words have been carelessly misjudged or misread three or four times in the past couple of days.  Its getting old and has me feeling a little reactionary.  My bad.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 11:47 PM ET

bezukov's avatar

Let me clarify

...wouldn’t that be a rude reason to do what I did?*

I guess it the difference between intentions and rationales.  The word “reason” could be used to express either.  Maybe that will help us understand each other.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/25/12 at 11:52 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

This is a comment for RedMenace, who thought it would be cool to take this spat into the live blog, rather than actually have to argue with my statements.
His words were, I believe, “boohoohoo, someone called me names, and since my position is founded on a logical fallacy, I had no response”.

Let me make this really simple for you: 
  -This is logically consistent: “I support a certain right, therefore I support it whenever someone exercises it.”
  -This is logically inconsistent: “I support a certain right, but I think there are times when you shouldn’t exercise it.”

Is this clear?  Because it is a black and white fact, not an opinion.  Do you have a response to this argument?  Do you understand it?  Because if not, you are stupid.  It is not an insult, but an objective measure of comprehension.  That is what I meant.  I said, “it is pathetic to hold an illogical opinion that you back by pretending that something else (like manners) is the issue.”  The insult is not random, and it is not the straw-man labeling that everyone else is doing.  It is very specifically targeting an untenable position.  And guess what?  No one has refuted this.

(side point: Why does everyone consider politeness the highest good?  Yeah, it’s nice, but…..)

Realmk…....I think Thomas made it very clear that he is not feeling either side of this false dichotomy in politics.  I’m not feeling Mr.Change, but pretty well everything you said is silly.  Guess what guys?  Both of these administrations are putting expedience before principles - it’s called politics.  The whole “team Blue is waaaay better than team Red” is absurd.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 01/25/12 at 11:59 PM ET

Forlorn in VA's avatar

Posted by bezukov from South of Detroit on 01/25/12 at 09:47 PM ET

My opinion - Your action of farting in my sandwich would be rude (and gross), why you did it has no bearing at all on the matter.  Hanging up on someone is rude, it doesn’t matter if you do it because you’re bored, or angry, or because your kid just took a header off his high chair.  The reason can determine if something is forgivable or not, but does not alter whether or not the initial act or word was rude.

Posted by Forlorn in VA on 01/26/12 at 12:02 AM ET

Avatar

@Tuxedo actually I agree with you, I said before both sides are driving us off the cliff, I just personally feel the left is doing it in a quicker fashion.

Posted by Realmk from Boston on 01/26/12 at 12:04 AM ET

bezukov's avatar

-This is logically consistent: “I support a certain right, therefore I support it whenever someone exercises it.”
  -This is logically inconsistent: “I support a certain right, but I think there are times when you shouldn’t exercise it.”

Tux-

I can support someone’s right of expression without supporting the way they go about it.  There isn’t any logical problem with that.

For example:

I support your right to express your opinions publicly.  However, if you shout out your opinions in the reading area of the library, while people are trying to study; I don’t support your manner of expressing them.

Just because I don’t support you for shouting in a quiet area does not mean that I don’t support your right to free speech.

-Or-

I support your right to build a house for you to live in.  That doesn’t mean I would support you if you chose to build a house in the middle of Ford Field.

Just because I disagree with your behavior in one context doesn’t mean necessarily that I can’t support your right to behave the same way in another context.

I support Thomas’ right to think and say whatever he wants.  That doesn’t mean I can’t question the way he chooses to exercise that right.  There is no logical hazard here.

Posted by bezukov from the kids are alright. on 01/26/12 at 12:16 AM ET

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About Iced Coffey

Phil Coffey has covered the NHL since 1981, most recently as the Senior Editorial Director of NHL.com. He spent over 11 years there.