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Wow- Heatley For Havlat

via Gord Miller of TSN,

A Sunday night bombshell. San Jose trades Dany Heatley to Minnesota for Martin Havlat. Done deal.

note:  noticed Bob McKenzie broke the deal while sitting on his cottage porch, just wanted to point this out.

added 10:39pm, from Sharks.com,

San Jose Sharks Executive Vice President and General Manager Doug Wilson announced today that the club has acquired forward Martin Havlat from the Minnesota Wild in exchange for forward Dany Heatley.

continued

Filed in: NHL Teams, Minnesota Wild, San Jose Sharks, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: dany+heatley, martin+havlat

Comments

Luongo-is-my-hero's avatar

omfg, are u kidding me?  Wow, what a panic move.  Heatley may have regressed in the past year or 2, but he is still way better then havlat who has sank like the titanic over the last few years.  Wow, SJ GM should be fired over this.

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 07/03/11 at 11:40 PM ET

Luongo-is-my-hero's avatar

doesn’t heatley have a ntc?  Did he really accept a trade to the wild? wow just wow.  SJ gets fleeced so bad.

Maybe he demanded a trade like the last few times.

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 07/03/11 at 11:44 PM ET

Da lil Guy's avatar

Schadenfreude.

Posted by Da lil Guy from Guelph, Ontario on 07/03/11 at 11:45 PM ET

Steve Strowbridge's avatar

Heatley and Setoguchi reunion . . . finally!

Posted by Steve Strowbridge from St. John's, NL, CA on 07/03/11 at 11:46 PM ET

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Strange move, also a savings of $1.75 mil/yr for the Sharks. Setup move for something else?

Posted by holdt on 07/03/11 at 11:47 PM ET

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Strange move, also a savings of $1.75 mil/yr for the Sharks. Setup move for something else?

Posted by holdt on 07/03/11 at 10:47 PM ET

Sorry to double post but make that $2.5/ mil/yr

Posted by holdt on 07/03/11 at 11:49 PM ET

Denver Wings's avatar

Heatley and Setoguchi reunion . . . finally!

Smiley

Yeah, this makes less than no sense…

Posted by Denver Wings on 07/04/11 at 12:21 AM ET

Baroque's avatar

Partial no-trade clause only, Heatley could give the team a list of 10 teams he could not be traded to each year. Clearly Minnesota wasn’t on the list.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/04/11 at 12:23 AM ET

Primis's avatar

Isn’t it possible that we all just don’t understand how bad Heatley is in the lockeroom?  He seems to just destroy the chances of any team he goes to…

Posted by Primis on 07/04/11 at 12:26 AM ET

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I think it’s actually $2.5 million per year, not $1.75 million.  Timing of the trade is odd too, something else is up.  Either Heatley wanted out or the Sharks are about to sign/trade for someone with that added cap space.  Don’t think Havlat and Heatley are that far apart in terms of performance.  Heatley was brought in to score PP goals in the playoffs and he had something like 1 in 50+ power plays over 2 years.

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 12:26 AM ET

shazam88's avatar

Per TSN, Heatley had a “modified” no trade (no movement?) clause and had to submit a list of 10 teams to which he wouldn‘t accept a trade, by July 1, and the Wild were not on the list.

Havlat played well in Minnesota under their limited offensive system.  I think San Jose did well with this transaction. Heatley obviously has an attitude as well as a diminishing touch around the net, though he was one of those irritating large bodies on the Sharks…

Posted by shazam88 from SoCal on 07/04/11 at 12:32 AM ET

Da lil Guy's avatar

Sens home opener against the Wild, too.

Posted by Da lil Guy from Guelph, Ontario on 07/04/11 at 12:52 AM ET

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Bizarre.

Also, I fu*king hate all things Sharks.

Posted by godblender on 07/04/11 at 12:52 AM ET

UMFan's avatar

Not much difference in talent..Heatly was great when he was young. Now, not so much. Should have stayed in Ottawa. The sharks just have to hope that Havlat somehow stays healthy.I wonder if Marleau next.

Posted by UMFan from Denver, Colorado on 07/04/11 at 12:57 AM ET

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The guy SJ should really be trying to move out is Thornton, anyways.

Posted by godblender on 07/04/11 at 01:03 AM ET

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Also, I fu*king hate all things Sharks.

Amen, brother.

Posted by Seaner from San Jose on 07/04/11 at 01:05 AM ET

Luongo-is-my-hero's avatar

So basically:
D. Heately+D.Setoguchi+C.coyle+1st rd pick
for
B.burns, M.havlat, and a 2nd rd pick.

I think its pretty clear who won the trade.

Heres a hint: it wasn’t the sharks.

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 07/04/11 at 01:27 AM ET

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I think its pretty clear who won the trade.

Heres a hint: it wasn’t the sharks.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion.  Burns is more valuable to a winning team than anyone else in either deal, and in Havlat they get a player that’s almost as productive for significantly less money.  Heatley was brought in to score big playoff goals and he has not done that at all.  You can say Havlat is fragile but the only ways to explain Heatley’s lack of playoff scoring is either injury or regression.  I’ll grant Heatley might be slightly better than Havlat, but if making the trade allows the Sharks to add to depth to their 3rd and 4th lines they will be better off in the long run.  Moving Heatley also makes it easier to extend Couture and Burns past this season.

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 01:31 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

Don’t get too excited about Burns.  He’s only played 2 full seasons in 7 years.  And Havlat, while being relatively healthy of late, isn’t known for being very durable.

On the other side, however, the Gootch was Cheechoo part 2, and Heatley, as talented as he is, must be locker room cancer to be traded 3 times already, as good as he is.

Anywho, just two desperate GMs doing what GMs do when they are trying to save their jobs.

Posted by Hootinani on 07/04/11 at 02:01 AM ET

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Theoretically these guys have similar talent, but Havlat is incredibly beat up and fragile. I know Heatley isn’t performing to the level he’s capable of lately, but Havlat is basically a spent force.

Posted by Steviesteve on 07/04/11 at 02:12 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion.  Burns is more valuable to a winning team than anyone else in either deal

Given that Burns has never been on a winning team, not sure how you come to THAT conclusion.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/04/11 at 02:20 AM ET

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Given that Burns has never been on a winning team, not sure how you come to THAT conclusion.

Based on the fact that he’s a big puck moving defenseman who can skate, run a power play, and play on the penalty kill.  That’s about the scarcest commodity in the NHL.  It’s easier to find guys who can score the goals you lose by trading Heatley for Havlat than it is to find someone with the skill set that Burns has.

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 02:23 AM ET

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As a Wings fan I’d much rather face Havlat than Heatley. To me there is no question who the better player is…and it isn’t by a small margin.

Incidentally…anyone think Marty remembers this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KJm-qcnnC0

Posted by godblender on 07/04/11 at 02:41 AM ET

statelouis26's avatar

Incidentally…anyone think Marty remembers this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KJm-qcnnC0
Posted by godblender

I don’t think he does but I sure as hell do.  Awesome.

This was a blockbuster trade from nowhere, though both players have obviously lost their place atop the top.  Heatley is obviously a problem or something b/c this is his 4 home by trade.  Minny and SJ have grown quite fond of each other too.  I think Heatley is more difficult to play in the playoffs than Havlat, though he didn’t show up much on the scoresheet for the sharks.  God I cannot stand them, and I think this is a good trade.

Posted by statelouis26 from Detroit, MI on 07/04/11 at 03:04 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 01:23 AM ET

Burns certainly has great physical talent—big, fast and can shoot the puck.  He has shown flashes of offensive brilliance, but if the Sharks are expecting him to step in and be that all-around elite-level NHL defenseman that transforms their blue-line, I think they’re likely to be disappointed.

In reality he’s a bigger version of Dan Boyle.  Both are dynamic skaters, right-hand shots, likely to put up some good offensive numbers and contribute on the power play, but ultimately both are career minus players who are pretty average at best in their own zone.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure he’ll put up 40 or 50 points in the regular season, I just don’t see that he’s that much of a change from what San Jose has had in the past.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/04/11 at 03:24 AM ET

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Burns certainly has great physical talent—big, fast and can shoot the puck.  He has shown flashes of offensive brilliance, but if the Sharks are expecting him to step in and be that all-around elite-level NHL defenseman that transforms their blue-line, I think they’re likely to be disappointed.

You say “bigger version of Dan Boyle” like that’s a bad thing.  Boyle’s a pretty good player and the only real knock on his game is that his size means he gets pushed around a little bit in his own end.

Normally I would agree that players at Burns’ age are unlikely to get significantly better but in the case of Burns, who has only been playing D for like 4-5 years there’s more room for growth than most players in their late 20’s.  Burns was converted from forward to defense at the AHL level and in some ways is still learning the details of the position.  Plus, he put up 40+ pts on one of the worst offensive teams in the league last year and now he has offensive talent to work with.

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 03:29 AM ET

Chet's avatar

heatley got punished pretty bad in the det/SJ series this past spring. maybe SJ knew without much doubt his best days were behind him as a result. if so, they traded for a similar but at least cheaper player.

the standings are going to be amazingly different from april 2011 to 2012. what a crazy offseason.

Posted by Chet from twitter: thegansen on 07/04/11 at 03:32 AM ET

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Doug Wilson is INSANE.

The final tally reads like this

Erhroff (Cap relief for Heatley), Michalek, Cheechoo, Setoguchi, Coyle and a 1st and 2nd round pick for

Burns and Havlet. Not exactly a great deal by Wilson.

Posted by Fire Doug Wilson on 07/04/11 at 04:01 AM ET

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Erhroff (Cap relief for Heatley), Michalek, Cheechoo, Setoguchi, Coyle and a 1st and 2nd round pick for

Burns and Havlet.

Yeah, except that you forgot the 2 years of Rob Blake and the ability to extend Pavelski and Clowe.

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 04:03 AM ET

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and that’s how they won the cup.

oops my bad, wrong team…..

Posted by akwingsfan from alaska on 07/04/11 at 04:23 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

You say “bigger version of Dan Boyle” like that’s a bad thing. 

Not at all.  I’m merely pointing that San Jose now has two guys who pretty much the exact same role.  They’re both power play specialists, are better suited to play the right side and neither is particularly great defensively. 

Granted, in this league, legit number one defensemen who can effectively move the puck and also be counted on to log all the tough minutes against the other team’s best players (and be counted on to shut them down) are about as rare as unicorns and it’s no knock on Burns to say that he doesn’t fit into that elite category.  It’s just a fact.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/04/11 at 05:31 AM ET

Moq's avatar

Havlat and Heatley had a similar point production this season. The question is if Heatley’s 26-goal season was an aberration, or a sign of declining production. If it’s the latter, San Jose made a good deal replacing production and getting some cap relief. Even if he doesn’t produce something close to 40 goals, Heatley could still be beneficial for Minnesota because he plays a different game than Havlat.

It could end up beneficial for both teams.

Posted by Moq from Denmark on 07/04/11 at 10:06 AM ET

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I won’t say “winner” or “loser” (because I think that’s not clear yet), but I don’t think San Jose did that poorly, actually.

San Jose needed to break up its core, and you can’t pay $7.5 million to Heatley and $6.9 million to Marleau (first liners, but not superstars) when your competitors are paying guys like the Sedins, Kesler, Datsyuk and Zetterberg significantly less.

That core had to be broken up, Heatley was getting paid the most (more than even Thornton, who actually IS a superstar), and in in Martin Havlat they save $2.5 million per season on a player who MAY be just as good in San Jose’s system. And even if he isn’t quite on Heatley’s level over the long term, he’s still a lot cheaper and a needed chemistry change.

For those saying Havlat is made of glass—over the last three seasons, he’s played 78, 73 and 81 games. Those are basically Henrik Zetterberg numbers in terms of durability.

Now, you’ll get no argument from me that the Sharks’ asset management overall has been unspectacular over the last several years (it almost always seems like they give up way more than anyone else to get who they need), but Heatley for Havlat straight up is probably a good move, IMO.

Posted by Sven22 from Grand Rapids on 07/04/11 at 11:14 AM ET

WestWing's avatar

I’ll agree that cap relief was probably the over-riding motive from San Jose’s perspective.  I mean they gave up a guy whose career average is slightly better than 40 goals per season for a player whose career high is 31 (and that was eight seasons ago).  The league is full of players who average 20-30 goals a season, but pure goal scorers who average north of 35+ are damn near impossible to find.

So let’s not confuse the issue with the notion that Heatley and Havlat are roughly equal in terms of productivity—they’re not.  This was essentially a salary dump by a team that was kind of up against it salary-cap-wise; a team that right now only has ten forwards under contract, and really, only eight of those are legit NHL players.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/04/11 at 04:16 PM ET

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So let’s not confuse the issue with the notion that Heatley and Havlat are roughly equal in terms of productivity—they’re not.

You’re assuming that Heatley’s scoring talents will return to the way they were 3-4 years ago, and having watched him in San Jose the last 2 years I don’t think that’s likely to happen.  I think he’s a 25-35 goal guy now, not a 40-50 goal guy, and at $7.5 million you need to be getting 40+.  Havlat might not look like the same player on paper because he doesn’t have those huge goal scoring seasons in his past, but his salary is much more inline with his current level of productivity than Heatley’s is.  In other words, you’re more likely to get $5 million out of Havlat than $7.5 million out of Heatley.

Doug Wilson usually does pretty well in his trades, with the exception of the Ehrhoff deal (which was a salary dump in order to keep Blake and extend others).  He’s made a lot of high profile trades and none of them have blown up in his face.  Carle has been a good but not great player and he’s been the most productive player Wilson has given up in any of his blockbusters.  That’s a pretty good track record of knowing when guys have reached their peak value and selling as high as possible.

The thing that I take away from watching Heatley the last couple of years is that, for all the production he rarely “wowed” me.  He scores most of his goals from around the net, which while valuable never left you thinking you were watching one of the best players in the world.  I can’t remember any goals that left me saying “wow, there are only 4-5 guys in the league that could score that goal,” and at $7.5 million you should be getting one of the game’s elite players.  The rifle of a shot that he used to have when he was putting up 40-50 goals?  It’s been MIA for at least the last 2 years and I find it hard to believe that teams are just now keying on it and taking away space.  Either the coaching staff didn’t want him launching shots (which also seems unlikely) or there are some physical problems that prevent him from getting it off the way he used to.  Speed was never his calling card but whether through injury or regression it also appears he’s lost a half step that he didn’t have to give in the first place.  That’s why I don’t think it’s correct to say that the Wild are giving up a 20 goal scorer and getting a bona fide 40 goal scorer in return.

I still think Heatley can be a very useful player, particularly for a team that struggled to score.  Plus, while his cap number is $7.5 million his actual salary is less than that over the next 3 years so Heatley’s contract helps get the Wild to the cap floor without having to actually spend quite that much cash (a fact that I believe made him more attractive to them than a team that is closer ro the cap ceiling).  Setoguchi has his own set of consistency problems but over the next few years he could easily score just as many goals as Heatley, possibly even a few more.

Posted by RoneFace on 07/04/11 at 04:31 PM ET

SYF's avatar

I read this in a timeshare in Big Bear Lake, CA, and I must’ve woke up the neighbors with my laughing.

Heatley-for-Havlat?  I lmao’d, lol’d, and rofl’d.

Posted by SYF from Alana Blanchard's Bikinis and Surfboards on 07/04/11 at 07:42 PM ET

WestWing's avatar

You’re assuming that Heatley’s scoring talents will return to the way they were 3-4 years ago...

Not really.  You don’t have to go back that far.  He scored 39 year before last, which capped a string of five seasons since the lockout in which he averaged around 44 per season.  He’s only 30 (sam as Havlat), and very much still in his prime.  Last year would seem to be the aberration and not the norm.

He scores most of his goals from around the net…

Yes.  This is what goal scorers do.  Now and then you can get a perimeter shot past an NHL goaltender, but basically you score goals in this league by having uncanny abilities near the blue paint.

at $7.5 million you should be getting one of the game’s elite players…

And there’s the problem.  The guy’s a goal-scorer.  He’s not a great skater or stick-handler, doesn’t play an awesome two-way game and isn’t particularly physical.  In short he doesn’t measure up to the definition of a truly elite player.  Doug Wilson knew that and yet somehow ended up giving him a contract that paid hm on par with the game’s very elite players.  This totally supports my argument that the trade was a salary dump.  All things (salary included) being equal, you don’t trade Heatley for Havlat straight up.

Doug Wilson usually does pretty well in his trades…

Perhaps.  And maybe that makes him a great GM…for the pre-salary cap era.  If it were still possible to stockpile high-end, high-dollar talent without inhibiting your ability to still have quality depth on your third and fourth lines, going after big name players might be the way to go.  In the age of the salary cap however, acquiring star players means you get them at the height of their earning power, and as a result, end up with a roster that is pretty top-heavy in terms of payroll.  In this past season’s playoffs, once their top six forwards started to get banged up, the Sharks bottom six were totally exposed.

You can choose to believe that this trade was a one-for-one swap based strictly on the two players involved, but to me it looks like cap relief pure and simple.  Now it may indeed work out the way you obviously hope it will in terms of the future performance of the two players involved, but that still doesn’t mean the trade wasn’t made purely for cap reasons.  Put another way, if Heatley had been signed to a contract more in line with his overall skill set (say $5 to 6 million), I don’t think this trade ever happens.  Yeah, Doug Wilson does pretty well in his trades but the whole cap management thing is not exactly a strong point.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/05/11 at 02:52 PM ET

shanetx's avatar

WestWing- I think you’re spot on in your assessment of where Heatley stands, as a player, and the situation as a whole, except for one minor thing.

Doug Wilson knew that and yet somehow ended up giving him a contract that paid hm on par with the game’s very elite players.

Doug Wilson never gave Heatley a contract.

I’m interested to see where this goes.  Given Heatley’s off-the-ice issues I can’t see it going well at all.

Posted by shanetx from Floydada, Texas on 07/05/11 at 03:15 PM ET

WestWing's avatar

Doug Wilson never gave Heatley a contract.

Posted by shanetx on 07/05/11 at 02:15 PM ET

You’re right.  That was the contract he signed in Ottawa.  Regardless of whether you’re taking on these types of contracts via trade or negotiating them yourself, the net result is still the same.

Posted by WestWing from Portland, Oregon on 07/05/11 at 03:53 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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