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Why The Penguins Need Jagr

from Mark Madden at the Beaver County Times,

Jagr offers an intangible no other potential acquisition does: He may be 39, but still thinks like a superstar, sees the game like a superstar.

Too many passes made by Crosby and Malkin slide harmlessly past teammates of lesser mentality. Too many opportunities go wasted because of mismatched hockey sense. Jagr thinks hockey like Crosby and Malkin.

Crosby is a free agent in 2013, Malkin in 2014. Are those two willing to be indefinitely flanked by sub-par wingers?

The ineptitude of the Penguins’ power play contributed mightily to their first-round playoff loss to Tampa Bay. Neither Crosby nor Malkin is particularly gifted on the man-advantage, so their absences mattered little in that regard. The Penguins’ PP lacks (and has, for three seasons) confidence, creativity and structure.

Jagr brings all three. He can operate with equal efficiency on either half-wall. Jagr would help the power play like none of the other options could.

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Filed in: NHL Teams, Pittsburgh Penguins, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: jaromir+jagr

Comments

Evilpens's avatar

This is a prime example of why Flounder Madden is a Idiot ! there can be Achievement bonuses but they will count against the cap because this is the last season of the current CBA

Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 12:34 PM ET

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Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 10:34 AM ET

Why do you always respond to things that aren’t in articles?  Why can’t you just read an article and respond to what was actually WRITTEN?

He doesn’t say ANYWHERE that the bonuses wouldn’t count against the cap.

Posted by Garth on 06/27/11 at 12:56 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Window Licker Whatever “Acievement Bonuses” would Count against the Cap so there IS NO Achievement Bonuses possible

Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 12:58 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 10:34 AM ET

He never said it wouldn’t count against the cap.  And, didn’t the Pens sign Billy Guerin to the same kind of deal?  One year, $2 mil + achievement-base bonuses?

You have to remember, too, that the Pens are really good with the cap - you see them moving guys up and down the system on off days more often than any other team, from what I’ve seen, to save every dollar they can.  Just ask Dustin Jeffrey…how many times was that kid sent down and brought back up from WBS last year?  I think they could swing it…especially if they can set it up so the bonuses won’t exceed $3 million (or at least if $3.5 mil) if he hits them all…then he’s the best option for the price/years.

He’s right about Jokinen and Vrbata - they’ll want deals that are multiple years, maybe even 3 or more.  Ryder will cost more than the $2-$3 million that Jags would, plus there’d be several years involved with that one.  And, none of those guys bring the kind of PP presence that Jagr potentially could.

There are a lot of “ifs” with Jagr…but you’re going to have a lot of the same ones with the other guys available.  Along with being a blast from the past, I really think Double J can fit the bill for what the Pens are looking for - skilled players that can be secondary scorers AND help the PP.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 06/27/11 at 01:04 PM ET

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Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 10:58 AM ET

HE DID NOT SAY THEY WOULDN’T COUNT AGAINST THE CAP.

Posted by Garth on 06/27/11 at 01:06 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

HE DID NOT SAY THEY WOULDN’T COUNT AGAINST THE CAP.

Posted by Garth on 06/27/11 at 11:06 AM ET

Dude, he just doesn’t get it.  Don’t waste your breath.

If he doesn’t insult someone, he’s puny little brain will explode.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 06/27/11 at 01:08 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

Flashtastick56 UMMM I WILL TYPE THIS SLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWW AND LARGE SO EVEN YOU & GARTH WILL UNDERSTAND IT IS THE LAST SEASON OF THE CBA SO ALL BONUSES COUNT AS SALARY !

AND ALSO GUERIN WAS NOT SIGNED IN THE LAST SEASON OF THE CBA !! Capice?So who has the Puny little brain that will, explode Einstein?

Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 01:28 PM ET

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Nobody is disagreeing with you, stupid!  NOBODY SAID THEY DIDN’T COUNT.

EVERYONE KNOWS THEY COUNT.

Do you understand that?  The point is that you’re calling this guy an idiot for something he did not say.

Whether bonuses count against the cap is meaningless.  Even if they count against the cap they’re still achievement bonuses because HE MUST ACHIEVE IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY GET THE MONEY.

Understand?

If he signs a contract that includes a $500K bonus for achieving 30 goals, whether it counts against the cap or not, he doesn’t get the bonus unless he actually achieves 30 goals.

So yes, we all understand that they count against the cap.  But they are still achievement bonuses because they are bonuses for achievements.

Get it?

Think about it before you answer.

Get it?

So who has the Puny little brain that will, explode Einstein?

Do you really want an answer?

Posted by Garth on 06/27/11 at 01:39 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Madden also didn’t tell us that Marc-Andre Fleury is expected to be the Penguins goaltender or that Dan Bylsma will return to coach another year.  What a hack…

Moving on.

Penguins fans, what do you think is an acceptable cap hit for Jagr (bonuses or not… since I’m pretty sure that you don’t really care THAT much about how much actual money the team is spending versus how much cap hit money they’re giving out)?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/27/11 at 01:50 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

NO GENIUS Since this Is The Last [Season under the Current CBA the Bonuses all count against THIS SEASONS CAP whether He makes that Bonus level or Not /b]

Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 01:58 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

Posted by Garth on 06/27/11 at 11:39 AM ET

It’s an effort in futility, Garth.  Thanks for trying…but the dude has no clue whatsoever.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/27/11 at 11:50 AM ET

If he’s asking for $2m plus bonuses?  Sign him yesterday (if it was possible).  Just the potential of the skill and secondary scoring he could bring is salivating. 

As for how much I think would be acceptable…?  They have 17-18 guys signed for next year.  The defense is taken care of, as is the goalie situation.  That leaves 8-9 forwards - whether Tangradi sticks in the NHL next year or not and assuming Jeffrey does - with a little over $7.9 million to play with.  $7.9 for 3 or 4 more forwards…I think you could PROBABLY give Jagr $3 million and still be able to re-sign either TK or Dupuis then look to free agency or WBS to fill the other spot or two and still have some left over for the trade deadline or whatever else.

I think Jagr for $3 million would be fine - especially because it’ll only be a 1-year deal - but I wouldn’t want to spend more (at least much more) than that.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 06/27/11 at 02:04 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Milford, CT on 06/27/11 at 12:04 PM ET

Seems reasonable. 

Crosby, Malkin, Neil, and Jagr or a hell of a good punch for the top two lines.  Fill those spots with muckers to stand in front of the net and battle in the corners.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/27/11 at 02:07 PM ET

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Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 11:58 AM ET

I know.

We all know.

Everyone knows that.

My dead dog knows that.

Nobody -at all- is saying otherwise.

You arguing against a point that nobody is making.

My long-dead childhood pet dog understand this, why don’t you?

Posted by Garth on 06/27/11 at 02:19 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

  contracts have on the cap hit read my post here.

Performance Based Bonuses: Players on entry level contracts, veterans who have played over 400 games, players who sign a one year contract and are over 35 years old, or players who have spent 100+ days on the IR are all eligible for performance based bonuses. These bonuses count against the following seasons cap.


BUT AGain since there is No next year in the CBA they ALL count against this seasons Cap, So there is no Achievement Bonuses

Posted by Evilpens on 06/27/11 at 02:19 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

There absolutely are achievement bonuses.

Just because it counts against the cap doesn’t mean that it’s money paid to the player.  Jagr can have a cap hit of $3M while only being paid $2M thanks to unearned achievement bonuses.

These bonuses are going to present an opportunity for teams that are struggling to get up to the floor.  They can go searching for +35 players to sign a 1-year deal for low pay and then tack on millions of dollars in schedule A bonuses that the player cannot make ($4M bonus for winning the Conn Smythe on the Islanders? why not!)

This way, a team can be “cap compliant” while spending below the floor.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/27/11 at 02:24 PM ET

cs6687's avatar

At the most, I’d give Jagr $2.5 million with no bonuses (I know they would count against this year’s cap. Just CMA so EvilPens doesn’t lose it again). The Penguins have six forward spots to fill with $8.75 million in cap room. Currently, my lines are…

Kunitz-Crosby-
Neal-Malkin-
Cooke (aka Satan on Skates) - Staal-
-Letestu-Adams

Sign Jagr for $2.5 million, put him on Malkin’s line. Re-sign Dupuis for $1.8m, and he returns on Crosby’s line. Re-sign Kennedy for $1.8m, and he reunites with Staal and Cooke. Dustin Jeffrey is NHL-ready, but may start the year on IR as he recovers from a torn ACL suffered in March. He’s a restricted free agent right now. My guess is his cap hit will be approx. $600k. That leaves around $2 million for two roster spots. One spot would be used for a fourth-line wing for around $800k. That leaves one roster spot open and a little more than $1 million in cap room, which Shero would use for recalls and trades.

Posted by cs6687 on 06/27/11 at 02:34 PM ET

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closing tag

Penguins fans, what do you think is an acceptable cap hit for Jagr (bonuses or not… since I’m pretty sure that you don’t really care THAT much about how much actual money the team is spending versus how much cap hit money they’re giving out)?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 06/27/11 at 11:50 AM ET

With a 1 year contract and a team that’s going to turn a profit even if they exceed the cap, and a CBA about to expire, it’s less about compensation and more about player retention of guys who, unlike Jagr, won’t be retiring next year. When you don’t have to worry about future years, it’s a lot easier to make all the pieces fit. If Shero paid Jagr $7million for one year and somehow kept Rupp and Kennedy and extended Jeffrey with whatever’s left (all of this is tremendously unlikely), I’d be fine with that. If Pittsburgh lost two of Kennedy, Jeffrey or Rupp to get Jagr into the mix (without finding suitable long-term comparables to jump aboard), the cost of adding Jagr would be too much for me, no matter who, exactly, makes what.

In the world that actually does exist, a ballpark on the absolute highest I would want to go for Jagr is $3, though $2.5 or $2.0 would make a much bigger difference than one would think.

Posted by steviesteve on 06/27/11 at 02:43 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

Posted by steviesteve on 06/27/11 at 12:43 PM ET

The thing is…if keeping Rupp or Kennedy means overpaying them (I read somewhere Rupp wants in the vicinity of $1.25-1.5 million per (or almost double what Craig Adams will be making) then they won’t be able to do that anyway.  Unless I read it wrong, $1.5 million for him is way too much.  I can see giving Dupuis $1.5 million or so…I can see giving Kennedy $2 million or so (for two years, tops). 

But Mike Rupp?  He’s a $750-850K kind of guy.  Not $1.5 million.  That’s just wayyy too much for a 4th liner who plays, maybe, 10 minutes per game.  That’s why if he doesn’t come down from that demand - if it’s really one he made - he won’t be back.  Especially since there are guys in WBS that can eat up those minutes who are younger and come at 1/2 the price that Rupp - reportedly - is asking for.

$2-3 million for Jagr wouldn’t be overpaying him and it’d be adding skill to the position that was filled with grinders last season…and the season before…and the one before that.

I totally get what you’re saying though…and to each his/her own.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 06/27/11 at 02:52 PM ET

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I don’t like paying a guy who plays 9 minutes a night low-7 figures any more than you do, but with Rupp I think it’s possible that the Pens might have to bite the bullet and do it.

Dupuis can go, as far as I’m concerned, since Jeffrey already does everything Dupuis does and both he and Johnson look very likely to put up better numbers if given the same ice-time on the top lines.

But Rupp’s a guy who causes a lot of bruises on the forecheck, can score 10 goals per year in very limited ice-time, is very visible in the community and can tangle with a heavyweight if he has to. It’s just not clear to me that he can be backfilled.

Every time Rupp does some sort of charity thing, which is all the friggin time, he’s making fans for life.

Engelland can’t be leaving them 1 D short everytime a scrub like Colton Orr starts taking runs at people because his name’s not on the box-score yet and I don’t like the idea of carrying a non-contributor like Godard or Ivanens, who cost more than the difference between what Rupp should make and what Rupp wants, anyway.

And even leaving fighting out of it, do you think Vitale would chip in 8-13 goals in the ice-time Rupp gets, with the linemates Rupp has? I don’t. I’m not even sure Letestu could and he was scoring at a better clip than Kennedy before he blew his knee and got saddled with the Kovalev albatross on his right side. I don’t think Vitale would have Green making ill-advised passes because he doesn’t want to get hit either.

Posted by steviesteve on 06/27/11 at 03:16 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

I love Mike Rupp for all those reasons you mentioned - both on and off the ice - but I can’t stomach him making almost double what Craig Adams will be when Adams does the same thing on the ice as Rupp (the only difference is their size) PLUS kill penalties.  I wouldn’t have agreed if the Pens paid Adams that much…and wouldn’t agree if they paid Talbot that much…but at least those two guys kill penalties.

Free agency sucks because you lose guys like Mike Rupp, man.  I think that’s what’s going happen, too…because there are a bunch of teams that are going to have to get up to the cap floor and will be able to give a guy like Rupper $1.5 million without it being a strain on the cap.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 06/27/11 at 03:56 PM ET

Flashtastick56's avatar

Sorry, Adams doesn’t score as much as Rupp…so you swap the PK for the goals with those two.  Still can’t see Rupp making that much $$ with the Penguins.  It’s a shame…but I just can’t see them doing it.

Posted by Flashtastick56 from Meriden, CT on 06/27/11 at 03:57 PM ET

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Here’s the thing, though: the reason Adams can’t leverage himself into a position where he can ask for more than he did is because he’s easier to backfill. Vitale is a direct comparable, as are about 30 other guys in the minor leagues.

Who’s Rupp’s closest comparable, Steckel (minus the fighting)? Kyle Clifford, maybe? Both guys make 7 figures, so maybe Rupp’s not way out of whack in what he’s asking for.

Posted by steviesteve on 06/27/11 at 04:15 PM ET

Lindas1st's avatar

Jagr would help the power play like none of the other options could.

Yeah, because the one thing the Pens need is a left-handed shot who like to set up on the halfwall. wink

Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 06/27/11 at 04:38 PM ET

Lindas1st's avatar

Penguins fans, what do you think is an acceptable cap hit for Jagr ...

I’d go $2.5M to $3.0M.
—————————————————
I can’t remember where, but I believe I read somewhere that Shero wanted to give him only $1.0m plus bonuses. Anybody else read about this?

Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 06/27/11 at 04:48 PM ET

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How is it possible that Evilpens is not yet banned here? Guy has been banned everywhere he goes.

Posted by GoodPens from The Interwebs on 07/14/11 at 02:14 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

because Paul isn’t a Control Freak !

Posted by Evilpens on 07/14/11 at 04:51 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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