Kukla's Korner

Kukla's Korner Hockey

Who Said What

via Katie Strang of ESPN New York,

Via email, deputy commissioner Bill Daly confirmed to ESPNNewYork.com that the NHL is “looking into” what happened tonight in the first period of the Rangers’ 5-3 loss to the Flyers.

“We have [the] ability to discipline for language used on the ice,” Daly told ESPNNewYork.com via email, although he noted that the league has never employed that authority in the case of an anti-gay slur.

Daly refrained from immediate judgment because he had not yet seen the video slip of Simmonds calling Rangers winger Sean Avery a homophobic slur.

Filed in: NHL Teams, New York Rangers, Philadelphia Flyers, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: sean+avery, wayne+simmonds

Comments

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avery IS a homophobic slur

Posted by bill from san jose on 09/27/11 at 01:08 AM ET

TheFreak's avatar

This will be interesting if there is proof that Simmonds did do such a thing.

With all the press about race lately - because the banana incident opened that door and Simmonds taking the position of the moral high ground, then how will Simmonds react to this, or how will he be disciplined if true? If he is disciplined, will he claim racism or revenge for what happened to him?

Will Gary Bettman have a statement?

Will Kevin Weekes be equally disgusted by these remarks and release a similar statement to his previous one about the banana incident?

“For those that asked: I’m extremely disappointed with what happened to Wayne Simmonds tonight in London Ont,” he posted. “We’ve taken HUGE steps to grow the game of hockey,as I speak Willie O’Ree and I are in D.C attending the Black Congressional Caucus on behalf of the NHL & ironically this takes place.”

I hope it will all come to pass as this and the race thing is not an issue the NHL needs publicity on.

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 01:27 AM ET

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Really.  Do you think there is anything you could say to Avery that would insult him.  Especially with all the fetid bile that pours from his yap.  ( I don’t know what he says to Brodeur but I’m sure it’s not “How ‘s the family”)

Posted by 13 user names on 09/27/11 at 01:50 AM ET

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@bill, that doesn’t even make sense..

Posted by Kaneone from NYC on 09/27/11 at 02:06 AM ET

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Simmonds never denied calling Avery a you-know-what: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/rangers/2011/09/flyers-winger-wayne-simmonds-does-not-deny-using-slur-against-sean-avery

Posted by Kaneone from NYC on 09/27/11 at 02:17 AM ET

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Guess it’s time to put a mic on everybody…...Instant gratification for all.

Posted by Dr. Wu on 09/27/11 at 02:28 AM ET

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Enough of this crap: things get said on the ice, at the playground, at work, in life. An outburst like this is not a hate crime.

Posted by Big on 09/27/11 at 02:33 AM ET

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An outburst like this is not a hate crime.

Are you high?

Posted by RoneFace on 09/27/11 at 03:54 AM ET

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The word in question is probably muttered at least 100 times in an average hockey game…boring.

“We have [the] ability to discipline for language used on the ice,”

Unless a player is discussing details for an assassination attempt or recruiting for al-qaeda, probably best to just let the players work it out. They’re all adults.

Posted by godblender on 09/27/11 at 03:56 AM ET

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The word in question is probably muttered at least 100 times in an average hockey game…

And maybe that’s exactly what the NHL would like to change.

Posted by RoneFace on 09/27/11 at 04:36 AM ET

Paul's avatar

In the summer of 1980, Tommy Hearns was just starting his boxing career and faced veteran Pipino Cueves for the title in Detroit.

Hearns destroyed Cueves in the 2nd round and I remember the media asking him about the fight.

Hearns said when they went face to face before the fight started, Cuevas called him a f**.  Hearns said it made him made and he just wanted to destroy the guy.

For you fight folks, Hearns also had “Ass kicker” embroidered on his shorts in Spanish.

You can watch it here and I think the best thing to do in dealing with this situation is let the boys settle it on the ice.

There is so much trash talk going on during a game and most players accept it as that, trash talk and you hardly read about a player complaining about it.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/27/11 at 06:45 AM ET

Guilherme's avatar

The word in question is probably muttered at least 100 times in an average hockey game…boring.

So what? I’m pretty sure some douchebag calls Simmonds a “nigger” a couple of times every game, is that acceptable?

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 09/27/11 at 07:32 AM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Trash talk is one thing, but using words that are offensive to an entire group of oppressed people is another entirely.

If people can get offended by banana throwing or using the “N” word, they most certainly have the right to get offended by the “F” word.  Just because a word isn’t offensive or hurtful to YOU doesn’t mean it’s not offensive or hurtful to others.  So what if it’s said “at least 100 times in an average hockey game”—Simmonds was literally JUST in the center of a discrimination controversy, and he got caught doing effectively the same thing on national television.  It doesn’t make it right because YOU’RE not offended by it.  The fact of the matter is, open homosexuality is a relatively new phenomena in our society, and is still considered a bad thing—especially in professional sports. 

Look at it this way:  You call a black person an “N” to their face, and you don’t happen to be black.  What’s going to happen?  Someone’s going to get pissed, and possibly hurt.  You call an Hispanic person an “S” to their face, and you don’t happen to be Hispanic.  What’s going to happen?  Someone’s going to get pissed, and possibly hurt.  You call a gay person an “F” to their face, and you don’t happen to be gay.  What’s going to happen?  Someone’s going to get pissed, and possibly hurt.

Wake up, people.  Discrimination in ANY form is a pox on our society, and has no place in it.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 10:10 AM ET

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Posted by RoneFace on 09/27/11 at 02:54 AM ET

No, he’s an adult who understands what can happen in the heat of the game.

Trash talk is one thing, but using words that are offensive to an entire group of oppressed people is another entirely.

No.  It isn’t.  Do you understand the point of trash talk?  It’s to get under the skin of the other guy, and it’s done in the heat of the game.

There’s a huge difference between someone getting pissed and saying something Un-PC and summoning reporters in the dressing room to say something insulting about another player’s girlfriend.

And there’s also a difference between someone deciding before a game to bring a banana into the arena with the purpose of tossing it on the ice because the other team has a black player and a playing saying something insulting to another player on the ice.

People need to grow up.  Homophobia is not illegal and calling someone a f*g is not a hate crime.

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 10:30 AM ET

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Homophobia is not illegal and calling someone a f*g is not a hate crime.

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 09:30 AM ET
[/quote

Leave it to you to defend slurs, fortunately you are consistent. I consistently disagree with everything you say.

Posted by timbits on 09/27/11 at 10:38 AM ET

Jennemy of the Skate's avatar

Wake up, people.  Discrimination in ANY form is a pox on our society, and has no place in it.

Posted by RedMenace from A State of Insanity on 09/27/11 at 09:10 AM ET

Thank you Red for your well thought post. I agree wholeheartedly.

And Garth, you’re an ass. Some things never change.

Posted by Jennemy of the Skate from the bar car on the stress train on 09/27/11 at 10:43 AM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 09:30 AM ET

Seriously?

Wake the *#$%@& up and look around you.  Gay people are attacked DAILY just for being gay, just like black people were (and still are) attacked DAILY just for being black.  Again, just because YOU don’t think something is offensive doesn’t mean someone else, especially those at which you’re directing said offence, aren’t offended or hurt.

If, in the heat of the moment, I call you an “N” and you’re not black, that makes the word okay?  What if that word was picked up by a national broadcast and transmitted to millions of people?  What if I was just embroiled in a controversy regarding a very similar circumstance?

People need to grow up.  Homophobia is not illegal and calling someone a f*g is not a hate crime.

Racism isn’t “illegal,” but that doesn’t stop it from being morally wrong.  Homophobia isn’t “illegal,” but that doesn’t stop it from being morally wrong.  Do you consider calling someone an “N” to be wrong?  If not, millions of black people would heartily disagree—just as millions of gay people would heartily disagree with you calling them an “F.”

I also find it amusing that you put an asterisk in the middle of a word you find completely acceptable to call someone.  So which is it, man?

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 10:48 AM ET

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There are certain lines that players shouldn’t cross when yapping. However, I don’t think Sean Avery is the person that should be making that distinction.  When you provoke you may have to accept the unintended consequences. This is a case where two wrongs certainly don’t make either of them right.

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 09/27/11 at 10:53 AM ET

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However, I don’t think Sean Avery is the person that should be making that distinction.

Then fight him, or call him an idiot, stupid, douchebag, Daffy Duck, not a faggot.

Posted by Herm from the office on 09/27/11 at 11:03 AM ET

TheFreak's avatar

whatever happened to “sticks and stones…” ?

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 11:25 AM ET

RedMenace's avatar

However, I don’t think Sean Avery is the person that should be making that distinction.

Well, Avery didn’t say anything about it as far as I know—it was picked up by the MSG feed broadcast on Versus.  If the mics hadn’t picked it up, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now—unfortunately for Simmonds, he was in the wrong place using the wrong words.

Remember, it’s all fun and games until someone loses and eye, or you get caught.

whatever happened to “sticks and stones…” ?

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 10:25 AM ET

Unfortunately, that doesn’t apply to a LOT of people.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 11:32 AM ET

TheFreak's avatar

Not trying to antagonize anyone, just generally curious:

To those that have expressed outrage at the “slurs” being uttered about… what if Simmonds had called Avery a “cracker”  - would you be equally outraged?

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 11:50 AM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Not trying to antagonize anyone, just generally curious:

To those that have expressed outrage at the “slurs” being uttered about… what if Simmonds had called Avery a “cracker”  - would you be equally outraged?

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 10:50 AM ET

Being a white male, that phrase doesn’t offend me—but it could very well offend someone else.  If something like that had been picked up instead of the “F” name, instead of a potentially angry minority, you have a potentially angry majority of your fan base.

As has been stated, it’s commonplace on the ice—as are plenty of other derogatory terms—and it’s up to the league and players to decide whether or not that sort of stuff is acceptable during the heat of the battle; it doesn’t really matter what WE think is right or wrong because we’re not the ones playing or overseeing the game.  However, the major issue here is that it was caught on national television, and almost immediately after the incident in Ontario.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 12:00 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

In a world of HD TV and the demand of the public to know EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, this overly PC crap is tiresome. White people can’t say a certain word otherwise we’re crucified for it yet it’s all over the radio on Rap and Hip Hop stations.

We live in a hypocrisy-filled world, yet when a player was involved in what was seemingly a hate crime last week is stupid enough to get caught on camera spewing garbage from his mouth this week, when is enough enough? Leave this crap on the ice. Let them take care of it. This is one reason out of 100 why fighting should remain in the game.

Regarding bigotry, racism, and hate; this boy from the Western US of A lived in Cincinnati, Ohio for the better part of 3 years, and was it an eye-opening experience (especially considering I had lived in North Carolina for 6 months a few years prior). Never had I lived in a place more racially divided, more filled hate and bigotry against gay and straight alike, more filled with ‘do as I say, not as I do’. That place is one riot from a firestorm burning down half the city. It’s disgusting. It’s horrible, and from what I understand, that type of thinking is not immune to other cities in the Midwest.

How do you change that? Suspend and fine players that get caught doing things like Simmonds? Then what’s the friggin’ point of trash talk? It’s dirty, it’s disgusting, but it’s a part of the game. There’s not one person in here who hasn’t said something equally as stupid as Simmonds did in the heat of the moment only to regret it mere seconds later. Some of you need to get off your high horses and look in the mirror. What Simmonds did, and what the idiotic fan did last week are horrible, but will always happen regardless of what we want or what we demand the league does to change it.

We want a Utopian society with equality for all free of judgement. The only way to get that is to wrap ourselves with bubble wrap, lock ourselves in our homes, and never communicate with the outside world.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 09/27/11 at 12:05 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

As has been stated, it’s commonplace on the ice—as are plenty of other derogatory terms—and it’s up to the league and players to decide whether or not that sort of stuff is acceptable during the heat of the battle; it doesn’t really matter what WE think is right or wrong because we’re not the ones playing or overseeing the game.  However, the major issue here is that it was caught on national television, and almost immediately after the incident in Ontario.

So what? Any NHL game has TV cameras. Even if it was only locally broadcasted the media would’ve spread it like wild fire. If players are too stupid to keep themselves somewhat hidden when engaging like that, it’s their own damned fault.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 09/27/11 at 12:07 PM ET

TheFreak's avatar

RedMenace said:

Racism isn’t “illegal,” but that doesn’t stop it from being morally wrong.

...it doesn’t really matter what WE think is right or wrong because we’re not the ones playing or overseeing the game.

But apparently it DOES matter what we think. That’s why there is such a state of “hyper-sensative political correctness”. Trying to understand…you wouldn’t be offended if the term “cracker” was used instead but get offended for others because of the gay term?

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 12:22 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Trying to understand…you wouldn’t be offended if the term “cracker” was used instead but get offended for others because of the gay term?

This post and the replies are getting way too political for a hockey website, but if you want the truth…

If I can’t use the word ‘ni**er’ when talking to a black person, then why can they use it when talking amongst themselves and making millions off of ‘music’ that NHL arenas also pipe in? If you, them (whomever them are), and everyone else call white people ‘Cue Ball’ or Cracker, why are white people told we just have to deal with it? Double standard. Hypocrisy. It’s all a bunch of bullsiht. Yet here we are getting so pissed off over a word that rhymes with maggot. If we’re pissed about that, why aren’t we pissed about every derogatory word related to race, gender, or sexuality?

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 09/27/11 at 12:34 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

White people can’t say a certain word otherwise we’re crucified for it yet it’s all over the radio on Rap and Hip Hop stations.

Sigh… what does this have to do with anything?  How does that make the “discrimination” acceptable in any way?  Two white guys call each other the “N” word in a heated argument on national television—it doesn’t matter if they don’t think it’s wrong, there will be plenty of black folks (and others) who hear it and think it is.  This situation is the same, only substitute “N word” with “F word” and “black folks” with “gay folks.”

A black person can call another black person an “N” and it’s fine.  A black person can call another race an “N” and it’s fine.  A person of another race uses the “N” word and someone’s going to get pissed.  Same thing goes for the gay community: A gay person can call another gay person an “F” and it’s fine.  A gay person can call a non-gay person an “F” and it’s fine.  A non-gay person uses that word for anything, and someone’s going to get pissed.

Does it suck that there’s an incredible double-standard?  Sure.  Would it be better if nobody used those words at all in a negative context?  Of course.  Unfortunately,  that’s not the world we live in, and unless you just want a bunch of pissed off people all the time, you’re going to have to start being sensitive to the feelings of others.

Leave this crap on the ice. Let them take care of it. This is one reason out of 100 why fighting should remain in the game.

Keeping it on the ice is all well and good, but when it gets off the ice (like it did last night), that’s when trouble starts.  Simmonds should have known better, but he didn’t; now he has to face the music.  I’m sure a lot of people are going to say he’s just as guilty of being “bigoted” as the person who threw the banana at him, and that’s their right.

The proliferation of media has made everything everyone’s business, for better or worse.

So what? Any NHL game has TV cameras. Even if it was only locally broadcasted the media would’ve spread it like wild fire. If players are too stupid to keep themselves somewhat hidden when engaging like that, it’s their own damned fault.

Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 09/27/11 at 11:07 AM ET

Agreed, and they have to deal with the consequences.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 12:34 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Sigh… what does this have to do with anything?  How does that make the “discrimination” acceptable in any way?

It has alot to with it. You want to censor Simmonds for what he said on national TV, yet you have music videos of rap artists singing nigger every other word.

What’s the bloody difference?

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 09/27/11 at 12:41 PM ET

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Then fight him, or call him an idiot, stupid, douchebag, Daffy Duck, not a faggot

I never once defended what Simmonds said, I just thought it was tragic that it is one of the worst trash talkers in the league that was offended. I find your proposal that Simmonds should assualt someone for a verbal taunt to be an inappropriate response. Just want ot make sure that violence is a better solution to dumb and insensitive comments, than making an even dumber comment.

Well, Avery didn’t say anything about it as far as I know

He was quoted in several articles. I didn’t say he was the one that brought the issue to light, but he is a guy known to exceed the bounds of good taste and will make sure the media doesn’t miss it. You can’t unilaterally decide that what you say is “okay” offensive and what the other guy says is “bad” offensive.

I think they are both in the wrong, but isn’t being wrong the point of trash talk in the first place?  I could never understand why players get suckered into reacting to it.

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 09/27/11 at 12:41 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

So we have to be sensitive to the feelings of others only when discriminatory words are actively used to show discrimination, but accept that passive discrimination is “just the way things are”?

Because that’s exactly what it sounds like when you say it’s ok for one gay person to call another gay person a word that any other person may not say.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/27/11 at 12:46 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

But apparently it DOES matter what we think. That’s why there is such a state of “hyper-sensative political correctness”.

How does it matter what we think?  We aren’t the ones making the decisions.  Sure there are people who are offended by this, but there are just as many (if not more) who aren’t.  The people who are going to get things done are the people who are in positions of power within the league.  If they call for heads to roll, they will—if we do it, well, good luck getting a response.

There are certain aspects of society that it We, the People can change directly, but what happens on the ice at an NHL game isn’t one of them.

Trying to understand…you wouldn’t be offended if the term “cracker” was used instead but get offended for others because of the gay term?

Posted by TheFreak on 09/27/11 at 11:22 AM ET

Here’s the reason “cracker” doesn’t offend me.  Per Wikipedia (yeah, yeah): “According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, it is a term of contempt for the “poor” or “mean whites,” particularly of the U.S. states of Georgia and Florida (see Georgia cracker and Florida cracker). Britannica notes that the term dates back to the American Revolution, and is derived from the cracked corn from which cornmeal and grits, which formed their staple food, are made, as well as corn whiskey. (In British English “mean” is also a term for tightfistedness.)

Yet another theory is that the term derives from an Elizabethan word used to describe braggarts. The original root of this is the Middle English word crack meaning “entertaining conversation” (one may be said to “crack” a joke); this term and the Gaelic spelling craic are still in use in Ireland. It is documented in Shakespeare’s King John (1595): “What cracker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath?”

The term Cracker was also given to the farm hands that would work on the plantations as slave drivers. They would put a short length of twisted twine or string attached to the end of a whip to produce a cracking sound. The plantation owners as well as the slaves began to refer to them as the Crackers.”

None of those situations directly apply to me, and I feel no connection to them.  Someone else might be offended by the term, and that’s their right.

For the record, I’m not exactly “offended” by the “F” word (it doesn’t affect me personally, after all), but what does offend me is the fact that people think discrimination in any form is okay.  If we’re supposed to be such a progressive society, why are there still groups of oppressed people and groups of people who think it’s acceptable?  Why do people attack (verbally AND physically) other people just because they’re different?  Call me a Care Bear or whatever you like; this is just my opinion, and you’re entitled to yours.

This post and the replies are getting way too political for a hockey website

Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 09/27/11 at 11:34 AM ET

Yep, and I’m done.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 12:53 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

It has alot to with it. You want to censor Simmonds for what he said on national TV, yet you have music videos of rap artists singing nigger every other word.

What’s the bloody difference?

Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 09/27/11 at 11:41 AM ET

Did I say that type of music was acceptable to me?

So we have to be sensitive to the feelings of others only when discriminatory words are actively used to show discrimination, but accept that passive discrimination is “just the way things are”?

Because that’s exactly what it sounds like when you say it’s ok for one gay person to call another gay person a word that any other person may not say.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/27/11 at 11:46 AM ET

Did I say it was “ok?”  Saying something is the way it is and asserting that I find it “acceptable” (which I never did) are two totally different things.

If you guys are done putting words in my mouth/on my fingers, I’d like to leave peacefully without having to defend myself further from incorrect assumptions.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 12:58 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

you’ve been saying over and over things about how this wouldn’t be an issue if this were two gay men having a conversation.

Pardon me for picking up on the inferences you’ve been dropping all over the place.

A black person can call another black person an “N” and it’s fine.  A black person can call another race an “N” and it’s fine.  A person of another race uses the “N” word and someone’s going to get pissed.  Same thing goes for the gay community: A gay person can call another gay person an “F” and it’s fine.  A gay person can call a non-gay person an “F” and it’s fine.  A non-gay person uses that word for anything, and someone’s going to get pissed.

Explain to me again how I’m not supposed to take that as a tacit approval of these actions?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/27/11 at 01:16 PM ET

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Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/27/11 at 05:45 AM ET

I agree with Paul. If Avery doesn’t like the name he was called, he should fight Simmonds or, at least, chirp him back.

In the late 90s, Tyler Wright called a player on the opposing team a 3 letter f word. It was obvious from the replay. It was also a badly kept secret that this player wasn’t into girls. This dude absolutely mauled him in response.

Problem is, the league has already set precedents for suspending players for foul gestures and language—and they’ve made this precedent, in part, by suspending Avery (in this case, the offended player). Do I really think it’s right that Avery should sit games for calling Gauthier a gutless frenchie (or whatever it was), but that Simmonds shouldn’t for calling Avery a six-letter f word? No.

Ideally, Avery shouldn’t have been suspended for that in the first place and Gauthier should have taken care of it himself by chirping back or fighting him. Since that’s not what the league did, I see no good answer in what to do about Simmonds.

Posted by steviesteve on 09/27/11 at 01:19 PM ET

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Racism isn’t “illegal,” but that doesn’t stop it from being morally wrong.  Homophobia isn’t “illegal,” but that doesn’t stop it from being morally wrong.  Do you consider calling someone an “N” to be wrong?  If not, millions of black people would heartily disagree—just as millions of gay people would heartily disagree with you calling them an “F.”

I didn’t say anything about it being morally wrong.

I also find it amusing that you put an asterisk in the middle of a word you find completely acceptable to call someone.  So which is it, man?

I didn’t say that the word is completely acceptable.  I just don’t think he should be punished for saying something on the ice.

How many times have you watched a game and seen a guy on the bench, leaning over the boards yelling out an f-bomb to an opponent skating by? Or two guys tangled up and one tells the other he’s going to “kick your f*cking ass”? There have been SO many instances of that happening, picked up crystal clear by the microphones, and how many of those players are suspended for it?  Why weren’t they suspended?  People all over the country are offended by foul language being used on TV, so why is it OK to say f*ck in the heat of the moment but not f*g?

Why wasn’t Bruce Boudrea disciplined for the language he used in the first episode of 24/7?  Or any other player who used foul language during that show’s run?

You or anyone have the absolute right to be offended by anything that anyone says, but that doesn’t mean that you should have the right to punish someone for saying something just because it offends you.

Especially if it’s one word and it’s uttered in the heat of battle.

The second it comes out that Wayne Simmonds beats up a gay person for being gay, I will be there to condemn him and hope that he goes to prison for it, but this was a word, said on the ice.  Leave it on the ice.

Get over yourselves.

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 01:43 PM ET

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so why is it OK to say f*ck in the heat of the moment but not f*g?

Or to say you’re going to “effing kill Giroux” as Avery did repeatedly in period one.

Posted by steviesteve on 09/27/11 at 01:49 PM ET

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And Garth, you’re an ass. Some things never change.
Leave it to you to defend slurs, fortunately you are consistent. I consistently disagree with everything you say.

Well I’m offended by your words and am going to petition Paul to have you banned from this website.

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 02:13 PM ET

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Or to say you’re going to “effing kill Giroux” as Avery did repeatedly in period one.

There you go.  If you’re an advocate of punishing Wayne Simmonds for using a homophobic slur, what punishment do you suggest Sean Avery should get for threatening to murder someone?

Or is there a difference between a real murder threat and murder threat uttered on the ice in the heat of the game?

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 02:22 PM ET

RedMenace's avatar

Explain to me again how I’m not supposed to take that as a tacit approval of these actions?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/27/11 at 12:16 PM ET

Okay, I can see how you misinterpreted what I said, and perhaps I could have been a little more clear.

I was referring to the fact that among those groups in the examples given, saying those things is accepted; it’s “fine” to them.

Not “it’s fine” as a measure of approval from me.

I didn’t say anything about it being morally wrong.

Fair enough, but the way you stated your opinion made it seem like you were okay with it.  My apologies for misinterpreting your words.

I didn’t say that the word is completely acceptable.  I just don’t think he should be punished for saying something on the ice.

Again, my apologies for misinterpreting.

I agree that what happens on the ice should stay on the ice; unfortunately, that’s not what happened.  Normally he wouldn’t be punished because nobody outside of the playing surface would know what he said; however, the majority of the nation had the chance to hear him say what he did.  The NHL has to smooth the potential ruffled feathers of any special interest groups who may have taken take notice.

words…

Sure those words can be offensive to some, but the word f*ck isn’t a derogatory term used for a group of people, let along a minority.  Saying, “I’m going to kick your f*cking ass,” is not the same thing as saying “I’m going to kick your f*cking ass, you f*cking f****t/n****r.”  One is directed at anybody, while the other is directed at a specific type of person.

If you want to be offended at vulgarities, feel free.  However, your examples are not relevant in the slightest to the topic of discrimination.

There you go.  If you’re an advocate of punishing Wayne Simmonds for using a homophobic slur, what punishment do you suggest Sean Avery should get for threatening to murder someone?

Or is there a difference between a real murder threat and murder threat uttered on the ice in the heat of the game?

Posted by Garth on 09/27/11 at 01:22 PM ET

Again, not the same thing.  Threats of murder are punishable by law, and if he’s genuinely afraid for his life Giroux could probably attempt to file a grievance or even a lawsuit.  Is he actually scared?  Probably not.

Posted by RedMenace from the Church of Jesus Lashoff on 09/27/11 at 02:51 PM ET

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