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What Do You Think Detroit Fans?

via Bob Duff tweet,

#thrashers asking price for Bogosian - Hudler, Ericsson or Kindl and high draft pick - too big a price for #redwings to pay at this point.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Atlanta Thrashers, Detroit Red Wings, | KK Hockey | Permalink
 

Comments

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Hudler playing too well right now so no to him. Big E is untouchable. Kindl hasn’t impressed me so it would be tempting for me to think about letting him go. Still a pretty stiff price no matter what though. Also very surprising that they are kicking the tires imo.

Posted by tmoore4075 on 02/26/11 at 02:15 PM ET

Heaton's avatar

I think Ericsson has improved a ton, but he’s by no means untouchable. 

I don’t think Holland would be doing his job if he wasn’t trying to improve the team, Bogosian has Franchise potential where neither Ericsson or Kindl do.  I’d be very tempted to do this even when Hudler is playing better.  I just wouldn’t want to include the 1st round pick.

Posted by Heaton on 02/26/11 at 02:21 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

Problem is cap. $3.375M is absolutely insane.

Otherwise, Ericsson and a 3rd round pick? Yeah, I’d make that deal. Probably would do it with a 2nd round pick instead of 3rd too.  Not ready to lose Kindl. Hudler, now that he’s back to NHL speed, is very valuable fwd depth.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 02/26/11 at 02:28 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

I’d give up any of the defensemen + a 2nd rounder for Bogosian.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/26/11 at 02:34 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

From The Hockey News:

ASSETS: Has great mobility. Owns a huge shot from the point and sound offensive ability. Is very aggressive and capable of shutting down opposing forwards.

FLAWS: Needs to pick his spots better when going for the big hit. Is still a little raw in terms of his defensive-zone coverage, as well as his offensive game.

CAREER POTENTIAL: Potential all-around star defenseman

!!!

But what the hell are those performance bonuses? Capgeek doesn’t have the info. Is he reaching those bars?

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/26/11 at 02:41 PM ET

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Ericsson’s not untouchable in my book and Hudler’s playing well not, but what happens if/when he moves off a line with Datsyuk?

That, coupled with the fact that I think we need to look at any deal that improves our defense, and it’s an interesting thought, but still a pretty high price to pay for what’s going to be a third-pairing defenseman.

And yeah, the cap hit is high…

Posted by Garth on 02/26/11 at 02:48 PM ET

cainer4wingsglory's avatar

There is no way Det can give all that up in the midst of a cup run. I would say wait until the season is done and then do the deal. Hudler/Big E or Kindl/2nd rounder is something I could live with.

Posted by cainer4wingsglory on 02/26/11 at 02:49 PM ET

HockeyTownTodd's avatar

FLAWS: Needs to pick his spots better when going for the big hit. Is still a little raw in terms of his defensive-zone coverage, as well as his offensive game.
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/26/11 at 12:41 PM ET

Sounds just like Ericsson to me…perhaps the big E & Kindle would look better if the Wings replaced McCrimmon.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/26/11 at 02:51 PM ET

Baroque's avatar

Not enough salary cap space to fit Bogosian under it, so I can’t see it happening. Detroit would have to dump salary off their existing roster for those millions of dollars.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 02/26/11 at 02:55 PM ET

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I would look at this move in the offseason, even though E wouldn’t be a part of it then since he’s an UFA, but I doubt they do anything with it now. I see a depth defenseman coming this way on Monday though. Something to sure up the D. One guy goes down I’m scared to have Kindl in there.

Posted by tmoore4075 on 02/26/11 at 03:01 PM ET

Ben Mast's avatar

give up kindl and a 2nd or 3rd rounder for bogosian and that would be a great deal for us i would think… but definately nots happy or e

Posted by Ben Mast from Rainy River, ON on 02/26/11 at 03:04 PM ET

snafu's avatar

Ericsson and Bogosian are both UFA’s at the end of this year, while Hudler has one yr remaining at $2.8m.

@Baroque.  If Hudler is part of the deal, the Wings have the cap room, easily.  So they give up a reasonable defenseman, at times, in E for Bogosian and they unload Hudler’s contract—something he’s failed to live up to.  Seeing how many UFA’s they’ve got going into the summer, I think that would help them over the long run.  Bogosian is 20?  I’d do this trade without hesitation, especially if I felt the Wings had a shot at retaining him after this summer.

Posted by snafu from North America on 02/26/11 at 03:11 PM ET

Alan's avatar

But what the hell are those performance bonuses? Capgeek doesn’t have the info. Is he reaching those bars?

Bogosian is nowhere near those bonuses. That, I can assure you of.

As both an Atlanta and Detroit fan, I’m put in an interesting position here. First and foremost, from the Atlanta perspective, getting a draft pick and someone like Ericsson back for Bogosian would be awesome. Atlanta needs players who aren’t afraid to rough it up.

From the Detroit perspective, I would be lying to you if I said this is good for Detroit. Bogosian has had injury problems in the past. His first season, he had his leg broken. His second season, he took a couple awful hits—one of which seemed to scramble his brain a bit. He also hasn’t been a very physical presence out there this year.

Bogosian hasn’t played the same since the beginning of 2009-2010. One of his injuries last season was a hand injury. He never disclosed it to the team, and played injured for pretty much the entire season.

This isn’t to say he wouldn’t be a valuable asset to pick up. This is just to say that he’d be a bit of a work in progress. If Detroit is willing to take on a piece that needs some additional work, then that sort of deal could get done. Really, Atlanta could use any one of the three players named in this rumor. However, I don’t know if I’d want McCrimmon anywhere near Bogosian.

Fire McCrimmon, then make the trade. Everyone will be better for it.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 02/26/11 at 03:24 PM ET

Hank1974's avatar

Take Hudler out of it and I’d do it.
Our 1st won’t turn into anything and Ericsson has hit a wall.
Even with Hudler in the deal I’d be tempted to do it if Atlanta swung a forward back our way.

I like Hudler, but Tatar and Mursak could provide what he does in a year or two.

Posted by Hank1974 on 02/26/11 at 03:32 PM ET

journohoff's avatar

What is Bogosian’s cap hit? Cap Geek says it’s $3.375 million with bonuses. Would the Wings be responsible for those bonuses?

Posted by journohoff from Detroit, MI on 02/26/11 at 03:33 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Sounds just like Ericsson to me…

Agree, Gramps.

Except Ericsson’s assets are “height and handsomeness”, and his ceiling is 3rd line defenseman.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/26/11 at 03:37 PM ET

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Again I don’t this trade now if it includes Hudler. He’s FINALLY playing well and we’re gonna trade him away for a guy who also hasn’t lived up to expectations? The Wings are a contending team so you don’t trade away a guy like Hudler for Bogosian at this point of the season. I consider this move in June or July but not now. Give me all the depth we can have right now.

Posted by tmoore4075 on 02/26/11 at 03:38 PM ET

Gumby's avatar

I take that trade, except for the high draft choice (maybe a third round or later).  Hudler has done very little until he was put on a line with Datsyuk.  Ericsson hasn’t impressed me since his first playoffs.  Bogosian is a RFA at the end of the season, not a UFA.  The Wings have enough in the system to easily compensate for the losses of Hudler and Ericsson.

Posted by Gumby from the city with more ruins than Rome on 02/26/11 at 03:39 PM ET

Alan's avatar

Bogosian is still signed to an ELC. The Wings would be responsible for the $1m, pro-rated, remaining for the rest of the year. He is RFA at the end of the season.

Really. Honest. He’s nowhere near his bonuses for this year, unless his bonus clauses include the number of times he rims the puck around for an icing, and the number of times he shoots “high and wide.” He has some really nifty moves, and can make some extremely smart plays. What bugs the hell out of people here in Atlanta is his tendency to have mental lapses.

He’s the very definition of a work in progress, but Dudley won’t deal him unless the pieces coming back are comparable.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 02/26/11 at 03:41 PM ET

Guilherme's avatar

Let’s all shut up. From Pierre LeBrun twitter:

Regarding all the Detroit/Bogosian chatter, Ken Holland says via text that there’s ZERO truth to it; hasn’t spoken once to Atl about him

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/26/11 at 03:42 PM ET

Paul's avatar

LeBrun tweet,

Regarding all the Detroit/Bogosian chatter, Ken Holland says via text that there’s ZERO truth to it; hasn’t spoken once to Atl about him

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 02/26/11 at 03:43 PM ET

Hank1974's avatar

But getting Bagosian serves multiple purposes for the Wings.
They base their team strategy around puck-moving dmen and Bagosian fits that to a T.
Not only that, but he’s a right-handed shot - a premium in the NHL.
With Lidstrom retiring, if Zack fulfills his potential we could have another Norris candidate on the team for the next decade.

Hudler is finally playing well but we have several options in the minors that can fill his role.

Ericsson has hit his ceiling and I’m not sure Kindl is going to become what they thought either.

I still think the total price is too steep, but maybe it can be reworked. If it’s a 2nd round pick, Hudler and Ericsson and Atlanta can send a serviceable forward back in return, I say do it.

Posted by Hank1974 on 02/26/11 at 03:48 PM ET

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this sounds like the type of trades that are always rumored out of Toronto…..cant see Atlanta moving a top 4 defenceman to detroit for a 3rd line winger with no foot speed and at best a 5th defenceman..and the draft pick will be a late first rounder… just not gona happen

Posted by cberth on 02/26/11 at 03:50 PM ET

snafu's avatar

@Gumby.  Yes, RFA.  Brainfart on my part, seeing how young he is…  All the more reason to value him over a guy who will be an UFA after this season and with whom Holland has yet to start contract talks.  Unless something has changed, he said he was waiting until after the playoffs in all cases.

Regarding bonuses, the Wings have to carry the cap hit for those, but as soon as they can no longer be achieved, they come off the books.  Bonuses can also get pushed into the following season (for the part that pushes a team over the cap).  Someone else said there was little chance of him hitting the targets, so the point may be moot.

Regarding Holland’s comments?  Yes, every year he says nothing is happening.  Some years it actually is true.  smile

Posted by snafu from North America on 02/26/11 at 03:51 PM ET

Jeff  OKWingnut's avatar

perhaps the big E & Kindle would look better if the Wings replaced McCrimmon.

Your the preacher,  AMEN!

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 02/26/11 at 04:01 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

It makes little sense cap-wise with Howard to re-sign this summer. The cap space has to make sense going forward and the Wings don’t have much wiggle room to work with.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 02/26/11 at 04:20 PM ET

George Malik's avatar

And thank you for dousing this one with reality, KH. Duff pulled the same thing regarding the Wings wanting to sign University of Michigan forward/captain Carl Hagelin, who’s both Rangers property. The Rags will sign Hagelin long before the Wings can snag him.

Duff tends to not let reality get in the way of rumor-mongering from time to time. He’s surprisingly sneaky that way. Every once in a while, in his blog, he’ll offer some incredibly wishful and/or wistful suggestions regarding the Wings or Leafs adding some player via magic and/or a, “Here is someone with tons of potential for the cost of a Harvey’s hamburger” trade.

Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 02/26/11 at 04:25 PM ET

BrendonR's avatar

If Kenny could get Bogosian for Hudler, Ericsson and a 2nd/3rd rounder this deal would already be done.  With plenty of options with the Griffs right now and Tatar at a minimum filling in Hudler’s role looking ahead, this would basically be a swap of a defenceman who was the last player taken in his draft by any team for one that was taken third overall, in 2008, and is 6 years younger.

Not to mention Big E’s UFA status versus Bogosian being an RFA, especially given the fact that he’s giving an underwhelming performance in a contract year and could be locked up for prime years on the (relative) cheap.

Posted by BrendonR on 02/26/11 at 05:08 PM ET

Nate A's avatar

If Kenny could get Bogosian for Hudler, Ericsson and a 2nd/3rd rounder

No way KH moves all three of them for one largely unproven Dman. Mike Milbury might, but that’s why he’s on NBC.

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 02/26/11 at 05:34 PM ET

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This would be a great deal for the Wings if true. They do not have a franchise D in hte system for when Nik departs. Hudler is finally playing well, but everyone plays well with Datsyuk. He is to streaky, and does not fit the Babcock mold of defensive respnsibility. I like Eriksson, but he wil NEVER be a top pairing guy. Especially in Detroit where speed and transition are so important. We’ve seen what is coming at forward with Tartar sauce and Mursak, but Kindle has not impressed, Meech will never come back up ,so we don’t have anything on the way there. And always remember Holland’s ability to find players on the cheap to fill holes (cleary, eaves, miller, salei). So I’d hope he’d pull this trigger if it is attatched to a real pistol.

Posted by Mike Ormerod on 02/26/11 at 06:33 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Sounds just like Ericsson to me…perhaps the big E & Kindle would look better if the Wings replaced McCrimmon.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/26/11 at 12:51 PM ET

Word, Gramps.

Posted by SYF from The Revenge of Johnny E on 02/26/11 at 06:54 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

I’m not as down on this as some. Remember that a ‘high’ pick foe. DRW is not that high. Think of it as hudler for B. If the other in the trade is Kindl, ok:Smith probably fills the void next year.

Remember, KH will bring in Shea Weber next year with Rafi money freed up wink

Posted by MoreShoot on 02/26/11 at 07:30 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Rafi has one more year on his current contract.

Posted by SYF from The Revenge of Johnny E on 02/26/11 at 07:35 PM ET

MoreShoot's avatar

Crap!  I thought this year was the end of my misery.

Posted by MoreShoot on 02/26/11 at 07:59 PM ET

Puck's avatar

Late to the post here but…
Don’t know why everyone seems high on Happy. The dude sucks. He’s tied for the year with freaking Kris Draper for goals. Has only played half way decent with Datsyuk, and Babs takes him off the ice at end of game when score is close. Not a top 6 fwd.

Posted by Puck from San Francisco, CA on 02/26/11 at 08:05 PM ET

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Without fully researching the cap ramifications, I’d trade Ericsson, Happy and Kindle for Bogosian in a New York minute. Happy brings almost nothing to the table other than looking good when he plays with Datsyuk. And I’d put up 20 goals playing with Datsyuk so there’s that.

Posted by Eric H. on 02/26/11 at 09:20 PM ET

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I hear the Wings are gonna get Dmitri Mironov and Jamie Macoun’s Arab beard out of the moth balls for the playoff run.

Posted by Eric H. on 02/26/11 at 09:26 PM ET

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I don’t know what the other options are, but I like the idea of Holland doing SOMETHING to at least shake up the defense a little bit.  And I like the idea of getting a young guy who’s going to be an RFA we can sign and keep rather than an older UFA who would just be a rental.

I’m fine with getting rid of Happy because as others have pointed out he’s only been good since he got onto a line with Datsyuk and when we’re healthy he’s not likely to stay on that line.  And with Mursak signing an extension, we pretty much know they’re going to want him in Detroit next season, and someone has to be sacrificed, so why not the inconsistent Happy?  Ericsson is an interchangeable part, I think.  He’s got a great shot that he never uses and he doesn’t use his size like he should.  I think Kindl is still kind of an unknown whereas Ericsson is a known quantity at this point and even as a third-pairing d-man I’m not comfortable with him.

Bogosian’s a puck moving defenseman, he’s young with still a lot of potential and he shoots the fuching puck (he’s played 40 more games than E and has taken more than twice as many shots), so even if he isn’t much of an upgrade on E defensively at this point, his offensive upside is much more.

I don’t really think this trade gets done, but I would definitely like to see SOME kind of move on the defensive side and using Hudler and Ericsson as bargaining chips is fine and dandy by me.

Posted by Garth on 02/26/11 at 09:29 PM ET

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When Lidstrom retires, were going to be very sorry we didn’t pull the trigger on this if this offer is actually on the table.

Posted by Bushay from Detroit on 02/27/11 at 06:04 PM ET

SYF's avatar

Crap!  I thought this year was the end of my misery.

Posted by MoreShoot on 02/26/11 at 05:59 PM ET

I went looking for a lovely pint of Guinness to laugh/cry (yeah, at the same time) away my sorrows that he’s signed on for one more year.  If there’s a fault I find with Tick Tock, it’s that he holds Bowman’s assertions that there’s no such thing as too many veteran defensemen like a security blanket.

However, his recent comments about needing to carefully develop his young defensemen in GR and Toledo speaks volumes that he’s willing to take careful and measured chances to bring them up systematically.

Posted by SYF from The Revenge of Johnny E on 02/27/11 at 07:24 PM ET

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