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Video- You Make The Call On This Hit

Ref called two minutes for roughing on Eric Nystrom of the Dallas Stars.

Penguins announced Letang is out with an upper-body injury.

Filed in: NHL Teams, Dallas Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: eric+nystrom, kris+letang

Comments

Evilpens's avatar

only reason he got 2 Minutes is because Letang stayed Down, You want to end the Headshots Fire every Ref & start over

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 12:54 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Blah blah blah admiring his own pass rabble rabble.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 12:58 AM ET

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Was Nystrom even trying to play the puck? Looks like he could have easily gained possession but instead—while keeping his elbow down—still put his shoulder in the head of a vulnerable (reaching for the puck) player.  Didn’t Letang just get back from something nasty like this?  Potentially two concussions in one season.  These shitbag players need to do this to each other and not the real talent.  Otherwise we are going to have a lot of really good players have their careers shortened due to concussions.

Posted by 11B3PF7 in MN on 03/01/12 at 01:07 AM ET

DrewBehr's avatar

Nystrom was definitely trying to nail Letang, but I think he may have anticipated Letang moving up the boards as opposed to cutting inside. Had Letang not cut inside, it probably wouldn’t have resulted in the elbow to Letang’s chin. Tough call, but since Letang will probably be out awhile, and Nystrom made no effort to play the puck, he’ll probably get suspended.

Posted by DrewBehr from The Mitten on 03/01/12 at 01:30 AM ET

Evilpens's avatar

when Cementheads Milbury & Jones agree it was a Suspendable Hit & Not needed in the League & also didn’t go to the puck instead had Letang Vulnerable

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 01:40 AM ET

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Can someone explain why the penguins even care if this guy gets suspended?  They don’t play again this year and most certainly will not see each other in the playoffs.  I wish suspensions were for games played and also games played against the offended team… Otherwise it’s just complaining for a suspension in hopes the league will change its stance on this crap when we all know it’s never going to happen.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 02:10 AM ET

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“Can someone explain why the penguins even care if this guy gets suspended?”

Good question. Nystrom’s a marginal NHLer who has to finish all his checks to stay in the lineup. Shanahan’s been pretty consistent with headhits imo. This is a 3 game layup for him (injury, no full body contact, no change of position just prior to contact). It was a close game, so there was no opportunity for frontier justice. Nystrom loses 3/82 of his salary. They don’t play again. Won’t play again in the playoffs and Nystrom might not even make the Stars next year. Stands a better chance if he finishes everybody, suspension or not, legal or not. And the Penguins probably lose a player they can’t backfill a month before the playoffs.

It just sucks.

Posted by larry from pitt on 03/01/12 at 03:26 AM ET

Steve J's avatar

Agree with DrewBehr. I was thinking the same thing when it got to the 00:41 mark of the video. Letang cuts away from the boards as the hit is coming in.

Posted by Steve J from Columbia, MO on 03/01/12 at 10:24 AM ET

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I’m watching it on my phone, which stutters a little.
But.
I don’t see an elbow to the head. I see shoulder to shoulder and letang’s head bounces of the ice. I think it’s actually the fall which does the damage.
Nystrom DOES NOT NOT NOT have his elbow up.
I don’t think there’s a suspension.

Posted by teldar on 03/01/12 at 10:41 AM ET

phillyd's avatar

I agree with SteveJ and DrewBehr. I think Nystrom has him lined up for shoulder to shoulder, however, it is a 50-50 puck and Nystrom makes no attempt to play it, which as Keith Jones pointed out, is the real problem with the check. The only thing I can’t determine is if the last second movement is what caused a glancing chin blow from the shoulder or would Letang’s head been hit directly if he doesn’t move. This one will be interesting to see.

Posted by phillyd from Southern New Jersey on 03/01/12 at 10:49 AM ET

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Can’t edit but want to add.
I think shoulder is principle point of contact but letang’s head turns onto nystrom’s back and so it appears that the head absorbs significant impact. I don’t think the change in direction of his head is that great at that point.. The hit imparts more tangential force than opposing force. Letang flies in a circle and his head bounces off the ice. I really believe the ice does the damage.
Much like the hit rinaldo had on a shark the other night, I thought that was actually shoulder to shoulder more as well, even though I think rinaldo is dirty, I didn’t think that hit was.

Posted by teldar on 03/01/12 at 10:51 AM ET

redxblack's avatar

I was worried the call was the check at the boards at the beginning of the video. That was a nasty and dirty hit. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see supplemental discipline on this one.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 03/01/12 at 11:28 AM ET

Evilpens's avatar

Because Pens fans like any other Fans have become ACUTELY aware of how serious Concussions are they are Brain Injuries ! With Sid’s Ongoing issues & Asham having 2 concussions in the Last year & now Letang for the 2nd time probably

& Matt Cooke has totally revamped his game & when he had to answer the bell for his hit on Savard he did go with Shawn Thornton & did a admirable job against a guy who is not exactly a cupcake .

On the other hand Pens fan at the Game said that Asham called him on numerous times & the Kitten wouldn’t go

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 11:33 AM ET

Nathan's avatar

Pretty clear, shoulder right up on the jaw, and the hit was unnecessary since the puck was free. It doesn’t look like Nystrom intended at all to get him up high, and that has to count for something, but this looks like a game or two.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 03/01/12 at 11:53 AM ET

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One of these days, Evilpens, I’m going to steal the ampersand key from your keyboard.

Posted by From The Hockey Wastelands from Cleveland on 03/01/12 at 12:28 PM ET

Mojo Tooth's avatar

Whooooooaaaa hold on a second. Since when does a hit mean gaining control of the puck? I want everyone who says “Nystrom didn’t try to gain possession of the puck” to watch an NHL game. ANY NHL game. Have a pencil and paper handy. Or crayon, or whatever. Make two columns. In the first column, put a tally mark on every hit where the hitter immediately gains possession of the puck. in the second column, put a tally mark on every hit where the purposes of the hit was to separate the carrier from the puck, and then someone else came in and took the puck or there was a puck battle along the boards.

I suspect in most games, the second column wins.

Posted by Mojo Tooth on 03/01/12 at 12:37 PM ET

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I don’t see any intent or targeting of the head. Looked clean to me!

Posted by timbits on 03/01/12 at 12:38 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

@From The Hockey Wastelands Well you certainly added to the discussion of the hit !

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 12:51 PM ET

Da lil Guy's avatar

It’s unfortunate that there was contact with the head, but Letang goes out from the boards where Nystrom likely thought he was going to go along them. While Nystrom is coming in for the check - committed - Letang pokes the puck and tries to jump around him instead of taking the puck and trying to protect it. The sudden change of position leaves Nystrom with very little choice in the split second and unfortunately leaves Letang vulnerable.

Posted by Da lil Guy from Guelph, Ontario on 03/01/12 at 12:53 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Posted by Mojo Tooth on 03/01/12 at 09:37 AM ET

Agreed. Until they make it a rule that all players must be absolutely trying to gain or maintain possession of the puck at all times (a rule which would be horrible), then there’s no such thing as an unnecessary check.

Sure, there are still ILLEGAL checks, this one possibly included, but I don’t agree with the idea that Nystrom has no business trying to hit a defender who had played the puck a split-second beforehand.

I want to see Shanahan rule on this one regardless of whether he gives supplemental discipline. This hit brings up a question of definition on rule 48.

A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

(emphasis mine)

Now I do believe that there was contact with the head. However, I do not believe that the head was the principal point of contact. I believe that was Letang’s right shoulder. Since principal doesn’t mean “first”, but rather “given highest priority”, it brings up (a), whether the head contact was avoidable and (b) whether accidental head contact is going to lead to discipline.

In Brendan Smith’s preseason suspension video, Shanahan clearly states that “targeted” could mean either deliberately or recklessly (which weakens the definition of “principal” I believe). Was Nystrom’s intended hit to the shoulder done so without regard for whether he’d incidentally clip Letang’s chin?

I look forward to seeing what the league decides.  Of course, this is all contingent upon Shanahan seeing the hit the same way that I do.  If Shanahan doesn’t believe Nystrom was going for the shoulder, but was looking to “pick” Letang’s head, then the decision on whether this should be a suspension is an incredibly easy one to make.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 01:24 PM ET

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i would like to state again “who cares”.  The penguins are most likely without Letang for a while, and suspending this clown has nothing to do with the penguins.  plain and simple.  1-3 game suspensions are worthless.  players obviously dont care and will not change over these couple game suspensions.  Name 1 player who has changed their style of play after being suspended.  I can name only 1.  Matt Cooke.  And his suspension was 20 games.

If you want to change things, start with 15 games and go from there… otherwise, its really is pointless.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 01:58 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

You seem to care a lot about letting people know how little you care.

Whatever Nystrom gets suspended should be matched for Malkin cross-checking him in the face later in the game.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 02:25 PM ET

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Whatever Nystrom gets suspended should be matched for Malkin cross-checking him in the face later in the game.

no.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 02:37 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

You’re right, it should actually be doubled, because Malkin did it intentionally.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 02:46 PM ET

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You’re right, it should actually be doubled, because Malkin did it intentionally.

Listen i understand the hate wing fans have for malkin and all the penguins… beating you in your own arena, in a game 7, without crosby for most of the game.  damn, even writing it now it seems like just yesterday; anyways, for one second perhaps you can remove yourself from the amway logo and ask yourself, if matt cooke was the guy hitting letang this way, would I(you) be saying this was an ok hit?

the fact that malkin is the only guy that really did anything to nystrom is perhaps the worst part of the entire situation for me as a pens fan.  Nystrom actually initated the situation.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 02:59 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

if matt cooke was the guy hitting letang this way, would I(you) be saying this was an ok hit?

I think if it were Matt Cooke hitting Stephane Robidas this way, I probably would have said something like this:

Until they make it a rule that all players must be absolutely trying to gain or maintain possession of the puck at all times (a rule which would be horrible), then there’s no such thing as an unnecessary check.

Sure, there are still ILLEGAL checks, this one possibly included, but I don’t agree with the idea that Nystrom has no business trying to hit a defender who had played the puck a split-second beforehand.

I want to see Shanahan rule on this one regardless of whether he gives supplemental discipline. This hit brings up a question of definition on rule 48.

A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

(emphasis mine)

Now I do believe that there was contact with the head. However, I do not believe that the head was the principal point of contact. I believe that was Letang’s right shoulder. Since principal doesn’t mean “first”, but rather “given highest priority”, it brings up (a), whether the head contact was avoidable and (b) whether accidental head contact is going to lead to discipline.

In Brendan Smith’s preseason suspension video, Shanahan clearly states that “targeted” could mean either deliberately or recklessly (which weakens the definition of “principal” I believe). Was Nystrom’s intended hit to the shoulder done so without regard for whether he’d incidentally clip Letang’s chin?

I look forward to seeing what the league decides.  Of course, this is all contingent upon Shanahan seeing the hit the same way that I do.  If Shanahan doesn’t believe Nystrom was going for the shoulder, but was looking to “pick” Letang’s head, then the decision on whether this should be a suspension is an incredibly easy one to make.

It’s absolutely hilarious that you’re coming at this from the “YOU’RE the homer!” perspective considering I actually hate the Stars more than the Penguins and you’re a Pittsburgh fan.

Fact of the matter is that I think Nystrom’s hit was borderline, but not worth a suspension because the head wasn’t the principal point of contact and I don’t think Nystrom did it maliciously.

What Malkin did with that cross-check was malice.  Malkin laid an intentional head shot on a guy.  If you want to get this shit out of the game, start suspensions at 15 games for these kinds of blatant, intentional headshots to let people know that it’s not their damn job to go all eye-for-an-eye out there on the ice.

Perhaps the worst part of this entire discussion is that you’re crying about wanting to seriously eliminate head shots while also crying that Malkin delivering one wasn’t ENOUGH of a retaliation for you.

Hypocrite.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 03:05 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

hahahahahaha !gretzky_to_lemieux No J.J is just an incredibly POMPOUS ASS who happens to be a AMWing fan who Hate the Pens & anything to do with them

And J.J. before you get indignant & soil your panties & then get them in a not he is Evidence of your Pomposity in this thread alone Of course, this is all contingent upon Shanahan seeing the hit the same way that I do.

if Shanny sees it the “Same way as you do”? who the F are are you ? compared with a guy who played How Many Games in the NHL ? & is now in charge of discipline

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 03:09 PM ET

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Even as a Pens’ fan I think the hit was clean. It was an accident, but no dirty hit.

Posted by Joe on 03/01/12 at 03:16 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

if Shanny sees it the “Same way as you do”? who the F are are you ? compared with a guy who played How Many Games in the NHL ? & is now in charge of discipline

Just a fan discussing things.  Same as everybody else around here.

If Shanny sees it differently, then it is what it is. If we have to have any NHL experience to have opinions around here, then I’ll sit quietly and just be happy in the fact that you’ll stop posting altogether and roundly improve the experience for Red Wings and Penguins fans alike on this site.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 03:21 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

@From The Hockey Wastelands Well you certainly added to the discussion of the hit !

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 09:51 AM ET

Does hypocrisy come naturally to Penguins fans or just the two of you?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 03:24 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

AWWW see J.J. you soiled your panties & got them in a knot !

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 03:25 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

AWWW see J.J. you soiled your panties & got them in a knot !

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 12:25 PM ET

I understand that you’re probably not in complete control of your complete mental functions, but haven’t you been coached on bringing nothing but antagonism into threads?

You must get a lot of ladies by constantly using references to them as inferior.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 03:36 PM ET

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JJ you are not being fair, you have to recall that EvilPens, by his own admission was concussed as a child, so please be a little bit tolerant and patient with him.

Nystrom once he realized he couldn’t play the puck along the wall, he hit the man. Letang made a good hockey play to get the puck past Nystrom, but that left him exposed to a big hit.  I agree with DrewBehrs early assessment of the play, the only difference I have is that it has never been incumbent on the player on the forecheck to play the puck first, but to separate the puck carrier from the puck.  This is borderline since Letang reached for the puck just before Nystrom arrived and Shanahan has repeatedly been lenient when the player being hit changes position or exposes themselves..

I didn’t think Fistric deserved a suspension for his hit on Neidereitter earlier in the year either, but Shanahan disagreed. So I wouldn’t be surprised if Shanny did give him a game or two just because he can and that is all he ever gives.

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 03/01/12 at 04:42 PM ET

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Perhaps the worst part of this entire discussion is that you’re crying about wanting to seriously eliminate head shots while also crying that Malkin delivering one wasn’t ENOUGH of a retaliation for you.

there is a difference between head shots and what malkin did to nystrom in a scrum after the play was halted.  Hell, people get punched in the head all the time… I am not calling for eliminating fighting or even scrums…. Your boy vinny Lecavlier punched malkin in the head during a scrum with no suspension… Malkin is probably learning that crap like that is tollerated.  Regardless, to say that it is hypocritical to say nystroms play is suspendable and malkin’s isnt is like comparing apples to oranges.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 05:28 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

there is a difference between head shots and what malkin did to nystrom in a scrum after the play was halted.

Really?  Cross-checking a guy in the face isn’t a head shot?

Why? Because we’re just supposed to assume that giving a guy a head shot away from the play is supposed to be different than during one?  That is stupid. Especially when there are weapons (like sticks) involved.  I’m not talking about sucker punches during scrums (which should get penalized more heavily too. I’m talking about taking your stick across a guy’s face. That is a head shot.

Vinny Lecavalier isn’t my boy.  no idea where that came from.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 05:34 PM ET

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Vinny Lecavalier isn’t my boy.  no idea where that came from.

your boy… your boys boy.  same deal.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 05:48 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

your boy… your boys boy.  same deal.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 03/01/12 at 02:48 PM ET

My boy didn’t sign that boy to that boy’s deal, boy.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 06:10 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

@NHLShanahan on Twitter:

Nystrom/Letang: Our view is that Letang lunges forward just prior to contact and… http://yfrog.com/obfkitfj

...although it appears that the chin is grazed by the side of Nystrom’s arm, the right chest and shoulder of Letang remain the PPOC. No SD.

Huh… I guess Shanahan saw the hit the same way I did, didn’t he?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 06:59 PM ET

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I figured Shanny would see it this way but I didn’t want GTL and Evilpens to drag me down into one of their bouts of name calling and insults. The truth is Letang put himself in a vulnerable position and Malkin is a typical punk. If he had a problem why didn’t he drop the gloves? Was it because Nystrom wasn’t the smallest guy on the ice, with his back turned? Or maybe he was just sure Bettman had his back?

@From The Hockey Wastelands Well you certainly added to the discussion of the hit !

Posted by Evilpens on 03/01/12 at 09:51 AM ET

I was trying to keep it light hearted but since you are such a baby, let me spell it out for you; most of your opinions make us suspect you are a delusional homer but the ampersands prove you are a delusional homer AND lazy.

Posted by From The Hockey Wastelands from Cleveland on 03/01/12 at 10:01 PM ET

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If Shanny sees it differently, then it is what it is. If we have to have any NHL experience to have opinions around here, then I’ll sit quietly and just be happy in the fact that you’ll stop posting altogether and roundly improve the experience for Red Wings and Penguins fans alike on this site.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 03/01/12 at 12:21 PM ET

I could not have put it better myself, except to say that he would then have more time to spend under his bridge.

Posted by From The Hockey Wastelands from Cleveland on 03/01/12 at 10:10 PM ET

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