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Video- Head Shot Or Big Hit?

from Michael Traikos of the National Post,

For the second time in as many games, the Toronto Leafs defenceman was penalized for delivering a hit to the head on Friday. And for the second time, he believed the referees got it wrong.

“I got his body first,” said Phaneuf, who was penalized for hitting Michael Ryan in a 2-1 loss to the Buffalo Sabres. “That’s my job as a D-man. When a guy’s coming up the ice to hit him. It’s a learning experience for the refs.”

It might also be a learning experience for big-time hitters like Phaneuf.

more and you make the call from tonight’s game…

Filed in: NHL Teams, Toronto Maple Leafs, | KK Hockey | Permalink
  Tags: dion+phaneuf

Comments

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+1 for headshot…

C’mon Shanahan do your job

Posted by Terry Hale from San Jose on 09/24/11 at 01:58 AM ET

Hootinani's avatar

As shitty as it is, thats the new rule that Shanahan explained before pre-season started.  While the main point of contact was not the head, he did catch it incidentally with his shoulder, so its a penalty, but according to the video explanation, not suspendable.  I guess we’ll see.

Posted by Hootinani on 09/24/11 at 02:28 AM ET

Da lil Guy's avatar

I can’t really see what he got ‘first’ but I think we’re past that point now. Phaneuf should know that, he’s wearing the C for his team.

It was a blindside hit, and regardless of whether it was the first thing that got hit, there was definitely contact with the player’s head.

A few years ago, I probably would have said it was clean, but I think both the fans and the league have come to recognize that things have to change.

Posted by Da lil Guy from Guelph, Ontario on 09/24/11 at 03:19 AM ET

UMFan's avatar

The replay angle sucks. From what I saw though, I have to agrew with Wilson that the primary point of contact was the shoulder. I’m not sure that matters though.

Posted by UMFan from Denver, Colorado on 09/24/11 at 03:38 AM ET

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Yeah Dion, its always the refs that get it wrong. Take it from a fan in the NW, he has always been a dirty hitter. Thne man does not know what to do with his arms, and always puts the elbow, forearm and gloves into the head.

Its ridiculous.  Another stupid rationalization from a guy that just does not get it.

C’mon Shanny, he is the perfect poster child for a name player to make an example of. he is going to give you multiple chances to do it until you do. Just can’t help himself.  Its what he does.

Oh well, he will give you another opportunity soon eh?  Don’t be scared of the big media soapbox he will have to respond Shanny…

“The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing us he was a big hitter…(if Kayzer Solse was a hockey fan.)

Dirty, yes, but this guy has gotten more mileage from a big hit here and there, and even though fighting is going to be evil soon, he rarely backs up his dirty play either. Don’t be fooled folks.

Posted by Vancitydan on 09/24/11 at 05:24 AM ET

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Enjoy video’s of hits in the 90’s, because at this rate there won’t be hits in the NHL anymore.

It was late, but it wasn’t a head shot.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/24/11 at 07:45 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

This is the first hit of the kinder, gentler NHL (which I approve of as far as trying to eliminate targeted head-shots) where I really don’t know where I want to stand on it.

I hate Dion Phaneuf because I’ve seen him lay way too many dirty shots, but I’m having real trouble calling this one dirty. 

The puck had already left his stick, but i don’t feel that it had been gone long enough to necessarily call that hit late.

However, Phaneuf did make the check from the blind-side, which is incredibly dangerous.  The check was shoulder-to-shoulder, but in the same way that many blind-side headshots start out being shoulder-to-shoulder. Ryan just got lucky that his relative body positioning was mere degrees away from making him another concussion victim. We’ve seen plenty of incredibly similar hits end much worse for the person taking the contact.

So do we just make all blind-side open-ice hits illegal, regardless of where contact is?

We may have to… but then how do we keep big, clean checks in the game? When Phaneuf lined Ryan up to make that hit, there was still a distinct possibility that Ryan would cut back across right into Phaneuf’s path rather than make that pass. I think everything in Phaneuf’s intent with that hit fits very well within the purpose of checking in hockey - he was trying to separate his man from the puck (because he lined him up before the pass was made) and he was going for a certain level of intimidation by making people more aware of him in the neutral zone. 

For what it’s worth, I didn’t think his hit on Tim Conboy on Monday was penalty-worthy either.

I don’t know; I guess if they have to err on the side of caution giving out two-minute penalties for this hit, then I’m ok with that. We all know that two-minute penalties didn’t eliminate hooking, slashing, and roughing from the game.  This penalty would at least give Brendan Shanahan a reason to review.  If I were reviewing this, I would not suspend him.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/24/11 at 10:43 AM ET

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The hit wasn’t North-South as Dion described it. I don’t have a problem with the hit itself, but the direction he came from to deliver it is what I believe caused the penalty. Elbow, forearm and gloves were down and he led with his shoulder to contact the shoulder. If he had not come horizontally across the ice I wouldn’t have seen a problem with it.

The problem I have with “incidental” contract to the head is that when a player is crouched slightly, many of the taller players will end up catching a piece of the head after connecting with the shoulder. It’s tough to penalize a guy for being tall and making a big, clean hit. Guys need to focus on keeping it North-South for the big hits. When Ryan didn’t cut into the middle to make it a head on collision, Dion could have let up a little bit.

Posted by Mike from Toronto on 09/24/11 at 12:41 PM ET

YYZerman's avatar

The problem I have with “incidental” contract to the head is that when a player is crouched slightly, many of the taller players will end up catching a piece of the head after connecting with the shoulder. It’s tough to penalize a guy for being tall and making a big, clean hit.

That’s like saying if someone driving a giant Ford Excursion runs a red light and kills someone in a Mini Cooper can say, “well it’s not my fault my truck was bigger, he should have been in a bigger car”. Well no, the main point is that he saw him before he even got the pass and charged in and hit him. In todays NHL you can’t do that. Now with Dion, I think he just too stupid to understand that and there will be many more like this from him in the future. Bottom line is that players need to realize that if a player is in a bad position they need to hold up and not hit as hard.

Posted by YYZerman from Detroit, Michigan on 09/24/11 at 01:06 PM ET

DocF's avatar

Phaneuf, the perfect angel.  He is never wrong, just ask him.  Yes, he has a reputation with both fans and players (not associated with maple leafs) as a dirty player.  He deserves it too.  Perhaps Shanahan will decide to nail him along with a few other names to make a point.

Doc

Posted by DocF from Now: Lynn Haven, FL; was Reidsville, NC on 09/24/11 at 01:53 PM ET

Paul's avatar

NHL will take no further action on the hit.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/24/11 at 02:06 PM ET

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NHL will take no further action on the hit.

Good. This is just a big hit. I don’t see that Phaneuf did anything wrong here. He doesn’t leave his feet, toss an elbow, aim for the head…nothing like that.

It’s blindside, but only because Ryan’s not looking where he’s going.

And lol at Phaneuf being dirty. He’s a complete jerkwad as a human being, but he doesn’t aim for heads or leave his feet like, say Kronwall.

Posted by steviesteve on 09/24/11 at 04:06 PM ET

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I think we have our answer on how Brendan Shanahan will deal with “stars”...  He’s going to give them the benefit of the doubt!

In the identical play, Sean Avery gets suspended…

Posted by Terry Hale from San Jose on 09/24/11 at 04:27 PM ET

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No one wants to see another Lindros incident, but if guys can come through the neutral with the puck and their head turned behind them, then we are going to see a pretty lame game.  If you’ve ever played defence you know that there is time to stand-up, otherwise you just have to back in and let them walk up main street.  The play that Ryan is making is just a play that you can’t make.  And yes, I think Phaneuf is a pretty dirty hitter in general.  And it’s not late, he just had the puck.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt on 09/24/11 at 05:04 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

And lol at Phaneuf being dirty. He’s a complete jerkwad as a human being, but he doesn’t aim for heads or leave his feet like, say Kronwall.

Posted by steviesteve on 09/24/11 at 02:06 PM ET

Show one instance where Kornwall goes for the head or hit someone from behind.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 09/24/11 at 06:39 PM ET

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Show one instance where Kornwall goes for the head or hit someone from behind.

Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 09/24/11 at 04:39 PM ET

I’ll do one better. Here’s an intentional headshot on a 40 year old man who doesn’t even have the puck at any point in this play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKF6tojKdfI

Not sure how you forgot about this considering it was last season.

If you can find something like this from Phaneuf, I’ll, well, moot point, you won’t be able to.

Posted by steviesteve on 09/24/11 at 06:56 PM ET

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Oh, and here’s an elbow to Heatley’s jaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrLhkntCs9c&t=0m5s

There’s like a million of these on youtube. What a silly thing to demand. Asking me to find Kronwall targeting the head or boarding somebody is like asking me to find sand on a beach

Posted by steviesteve on 09/24/11 at 07:04 PM ET

mrfluffy's avatar

Nice link on the hit on Heatley. You found the only one that doesn’t show squat. Try this…I’ll even timestamp it for you.

http://youtu.be/SfX5BwDKjq0?hd=1&t=48s

Elbow my ass, his arm is tucked in. In both cases, Heatley AND Selanne, both of them are bent over. Now, does that excuse the incidental contact to the head? The league is saying no, so this season will get interesting for Kronwall. Yes, he leaves his feet, and that’s a no-no. So far he hasn’t been called on it. Why? Because he’s a Wing? Because he’s a star player? I have no idea and have no defense.

Here’s your boy-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP2pk4T3ceA

http://youtu.be/d6MrMi9wUUY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-XEMlMRP-M

In that last one Okposo gets hit from behind, is tumbling forward and Phanuef kills him anyway. Pull your head out of the sand whilst on the beach, Phanuef is a goon.

Posted by mrfluffy from A wide spot on I-90 in Montana on 09/24/11 at 08:04 PM ET

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Yeah… there are “like a million” videos on Youtube of Kronwall being dirty.

That… is seriously your argument?

Kronwall has one major penalty in his career. Dion Phaneuf earned more misconducts last season than Kronwall has in his entire career.

But there are LIKE A MILLION YOUTUBE VIDEOS LOL OMGZZZORS

Idiot…

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/24/11 at 08:06 PM ET

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Google video search:

“Phaneuf Dirty Hit”  - about 28 results.

“Kronwall Dirty Hit” - about 19 results.

LIKE A MILLION!

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/24/11 at 08:12 PM ET

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Seems like a good hit in terms of him hitting the body first, but I could see it being called a blindside. Under the new rules, I would say this is a penalty. I guess these are the big hits we’re going to have to get used to being called penalties.

Posted by CorruptCamel from Toronto on 09/26/11 at 06:56 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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