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Ugh!

Read more of Grange’s recent tweets to get the bigger picture…

Filed in: NHL Talk, NHLPA, | KK Hockey | Permalink
 

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Great, but does anyone in the world expect that the owners are just going to say yes right away?  No, it’s a starting point.

The owners proposed 43% but they know they’re not going to get it.  In any first proposal you’re going to ask for more than you want and that’s what the NHL did.

Posted by Garth on 08/15/12 at 12:55 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

Yep Garth, You negotiate ! if you want to sell something for lets say 1,000 bucks you don’t start at a 1,000 bucks , You start at 2,000 or 1,500 & negotiate & you end up getting 1,000 for it & the other side thinks they got a good deal because they negotiated it down to 1,000.

But the Problem is Fehr ! You people might Hate Bettman/owners but by the time the season rolls around you will want to kill Fehr

Posted by Evilpens on 08/15/12 at 01:04 PM ET

Alan's avatar

“The problem is Fehr”

Really? You’re going to have to do some convincing. The union is leaps and bounds more organized for this battle than it was in 2004. Did you want the PA to bend over and let the NHL have their way with them again?

No, Fehr is a master at this sort of thing, and it’s clear that Bettman and the owners underestimated the PA.

If the owners lock the players out, it’s not because of Fehr.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 08/15/12 at 01:10 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

UMMM yeah OK!! you’re Hatred of Bettman blinds you from what Fehr is all about

Posted by Evilpens on 08/15/12 at 01:21 PM ET

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UMMM yeah OK!! you’re Hatred of Bettman blinds you from what Fehr is all about

And you don’t think your hatred of Fehr blinds you?  Fehr, and the players, are the reasonable ones so far.  That’s something you can not argue against.

Posted by Garth on 08/15/12 at 01:23 PM ET

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In other big statement tweets by Grange -Despite hours of darkness, the sun WILL come up in the morning.

Of course the NHL won’t accept the PA’s initial offer.  The question is will they agree to negotiate under the PA’s proposed framework?

Posted by Callmejerry on 08/15/12 at 01:24 PM ET

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Yeah, I don’t exactly think anyone expected the NHL to accept.  What will determine the case for ‘victory’ is whether the NHLPA’s offer substantially changes the parameters of debate.  If all the NHL comes back with is their previous proposal with different numbers written on it, there’s not going to be much of a season this year.

If, however, the NHL comes back and negotiates within the frame of what the NHLPA has offered, then there’s going to be at least a portion of a season this year.

As far as EP’s anti-Fehr obsession… I mean, really.  There wouldn’t be a single missed game if the NHL agreed to just function under the current rules (which they themselves wrote in total) while they two sides negotiated.  Trying to pin lost games on the PA is stupid.  Also, blaming Fehr for the loss of competitive balance is similarly stupid.  In the last 10 years there have been 8 different champions, including the Marlins, the Giants, the White Sox and the Cardinals.

In 2002 the champ was 15th in payroll.  In subsequent years the champ was 25th, 2nd, 13th, 11th, 2nd, 12th, 1st, 10th, and 11th.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 08/15/12 at 01:25 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

Whatever !! I will sit back & watch

Posted by Evilpens on 08/15/12 at 01:27 PM ET

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I will sit back & watch

Yeah, that’s pretty much all any of us will do.

Posted by Garth on 08/15/12 at 01:38 PM ET

Alan's avatar

Posted by Evilpens on 08/15/12 at 11:21 AM ET

Me: Give me examples why Fehr is the problem.

You: You hate Bettman, so I’m not going to give you any reasons.

That’s how I read that, anyway. If you have so much ammunition against Fehr, then let’s see it. That’s all I’m asking for. I’ve seen in several threads now, you posting about how Fehr is a problem, and Fehr will be the reason why the lockout takes place.

You’re forgetting that the owners, in this case, are the ones in a position of power because they can lockout. Fehr was the head of the MLBPA when their CBA expired back in 1994, and he operated from a position of power. He decided the players should strike, so they did.

When you compare the NHL’s offer, and the PA’s offer, which one looks and sounds far more reasonable? Obviously, negotiations will continue, and I’m betting that the player’s share ends up closer to a 50/50 split. I’m sure that’s what the owners want, anyway.

So, make with the proof. What’s wrong with Fehr?

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 08/15/12 at 01:41 PM ET

Evilpens's avatar

Go look on the net for yourself ! You just want to hate Bettman ! I have good reason to hate Fehr Baseball is a Joke ! The Reds SUCKS cry to Selig a former small market owner (MIlwaukee) about the Pirates drafting Josh Bell in the 2nd Rd. after he & his parents sent a letter to all MLB teams to not draft him he was going to college, Pirates took a chance & drafted him in the 2nd Rd. & signed him to a Big deal & Now you can’t do that. The Pirates Drafted Mark Appel after he fell to them because no one wanted to deal with Scott Boras & they couldn’t come to agreement on a Contract with him. That is the only way teams like the Pirates & Royals can be competitive in this Baseball enviroment created by one Donald Fehr. He DOE NOT want salary caps. So teams like the Islanders, Coyotes, Etc are going to be F’d. Pens have a New Arena & a Multi Billionaire owner who has caught the Hockey Bug so the Pens are fine, But being a fan of a small market in Baseball I feel sorry for the Small Market, Not deep pocketed owners Team Fans in the NHL

Posted by Evilpens on 08/15/12 at 01:51 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

Early predictions:

NHL Would offer incredible lowering of player salaries.

Players would counter with just about status quo.

Both sides would meet somewhere near the middle.

Current realities:

NHL offered incredible lowering of player slaaries.

Players’ counter is just about status quo.

I WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/15/12 at 02:03 PM ET

Alan's avatar

Go look on the net for yourself !

Thanks for that riveting rant. If you can’t provide a rational explanation, then I’m left to assume there is no rational reason to hate him. raspberry

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 08/15/12 at 12:03 PM ET

I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 08/15/12 at 02:27 PM ET

tuxedoTshirt's avatar

Seriously Evil, this may not be all about baseball.  And the Islanders might be fvcked anyway.

Posted by tuxedoTshirt from the Home of the 1937 World Champions on 08/15/12 at 02:58 PM ET

Chris in Hockey Hell's avatar

I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

Do you know Tyler Durden?

Posted by Chris in Hockey Hell from Ann Arbor, MI but LIVING in Columbia, TN on 08/15/12 at 02:59 PM ET

Nathan's avatar

Go look on the net for yourself ! You just want to hate Bettman ! I have good reason to hate Fehr Baseball is a Joke ! The Reds SUCKS cry to Selig a former small market owner (MIlwaukee) about the Pirates drafting Josh Bell in the 2nd Rd. after he & his parents sent a letter to all MLB teams to not draft him he was going to college, Pirates took a chance & drafted him in the 2nd Rd. & signed him to a Big deal & Now you can’t do that. The Pirates Drafted Mark Appel after he fell to them because no one wanted to deal with Scott Boras & they couldn’t come to agreement on a Contract with him. That is the only way teams like the Pirates & Royals can be competitive in this Baseball enviroment created by one Donald Fehr. He DOE NOT want salary caps. So teams like the Islanders, Coyotes, Etc are going to be F’d. Pens have a New Arena & a Multi Billionaire owner who has caught the Hockey Bug so the Pens are fine, But being a fan of a small market in Baseball I feel sorry for the Small Market, Not deep pocketed owners Team Fans in the NHL

Posted by Evilpens on 08/15/12 at 11:51 AM ET

Go look on the net yourself, and read about the history of free agency in baseball, collusion among the owners once free agency had any real meaning, and the reserve clause. Then you will truly understand why what happened in 1994 was a necessary evil to make the game right.

You also conveniently ignore the fact that baseball, with its current labor agreements and post-strike history of labor negotiations, will easily reach 20+ consecutive years of labor peace, to go along with big-time financial success for almost every team and every player that has been a part of MLB.

For competitive balance, you conveniently ignore what I have pointed out before, and what HockeyInHD has pointed out yet again, about the actual results on the field.

In your rant, you show absolutely no understanding of how the new (or for that matter, any post-strike) CBA in baseball works. The over-slotting that you seem to think is the only way clubs like the Pirates can compete (which isn’t true) is still allowed, it just requires smarter management teams and better scouting, as it costs teams. Furthermore, over-slotting had actually been a much bigger benefit to clubs like the Yankees and Tigers, because players that were top five talents dropped to the end of the first round due to sign-ability issues.

With the new rules, players and agents are actually very discouraged from asking for “too much” money because with the additional penalties that now come with over-slotting, they know that they can’t scare off the small-time clubs, and still get paid by the big-timers… the big-timers won’t over-slot too far because the penalties are so steep.

Lower revenue teams compete all the time in baseball. Frankly, they compete much better in baseball than in any league except for the NFL. Just look at the results. Your analysis of clubs like the Pirates and Royals completely ignores the fact that they’ve had management that for years have made bad personnel decisions. You can blame it on some financial disparity, but that ignores the recent successes of clubs like Oakland, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Houston, Miami/Florida, Milwaukee, Colorado, and even Toronto. It also ignores that these owners get big-time revenue sharing dollars. They make a choice on what they choose to do with it. They could reinvest in baseball, or they could do like Loria does on South Beach and pocket it, fleece the taxpayers, and cook the books to make it look like they’re still poor.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 08/15/12 at 03:43 PM ET

HockeytownOverhaul's avatar

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 08/15/12 at 01:43 PM ET

So you’re trying to tell me Fehr’s NOT the antichrist?? /sarcasm

Posted by HockeytownOverhaul on 08/15/12 at 09:47 PM ET

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I remember during the last lockout the players looked to the MLB as the example that the league should follow. I especially remember Yzerman saying that on a World Cup broadcast on CBC. Now these wishes are finally hitting the bargaining table.

Posted by Kale on 08/16/12 at 06:02 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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