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Pressure On The PA

from Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun at the Toronto Sun,

Sources say the NHLPA is concerned about too many givebacks to the league at this juncture of the negotiations. Fehr and company don't believe this is the tipping point and the players aren't ready to cave as they prepare to lose their fourth paycheque next week.

Yes, the players want to get back to playing, but they also don't want to wave the white towel by offering up a proposal that the NHL is going to rush to accept. The players are willing to go to a 50-50 revenue split, but they want to make sure all contracts are honoured.

Even if the players do give up more on the core economic issues, including the 'Make Whole' for existing contracts, then the two sides still have to get past the contract issues which the league has maintained are non-negotiable because the two sides are past the point of give and take.

As reported Tuesday, Fehr has been getting pressure from some agents to get a deal done. Sportsnet's Nick Kypreos told his HockeyCentral at Noon audience "there are about a dozen" players -- some of them high profile -- putting pressure on the union to get a deal done.

more

added 7:49pm

from Kevin Allen of USA TODAY,

The highly competitive nature of NHL players can't change the reality that they never had a chance at winning their negotiations with owners.

As soon as NFL and NBA players agreed to concessions, NHL players clearly understood that winning was no longer an option. This was not an even playing field. The best they could hope for was to fight as aggressively as they could to hang onto as much as they could.

Today (tomorrow) will be the most pivotal day in these negotiations because the NHL Players' Association is at the point where executive director Donald Fehr and players probably can negotiate their best deal without risking a financial Armageddon.

continued

Filed in: NHL Talk, NHLPA, | KK Hockey | Permalink
 

Comments

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As soon as NFL and NBA players agreed to concessions, NHL players clearly understood that winning was no longer an option. This was not an even playing field. The best they could hope for was to fight as aggressively as they could to hang onto as much as they could.

Exactly, so this explains why the PA is totally focused on delay versus real negotiation. People who are frustrated by the lockout need to focus on why the PA doesn’t want a deal. It is all about bleeding the league, damaging Bettman and Daly and hoping that the big money teams pressure the league into a bad deal.

Posted by timbits on 11/20/12 at 11:34 PM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

hoping that the big money teams pressure the league into a bad deal.

Yeah, something so terrible as getting to their 50/50 split in maybe as many as four years!

OH NO!

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/21/12 at 12:38 AM ET

Avatar

Yeah, something so terrible as getting to their 50/50 split in maybe as many as four years!

OH NO!

In real dollars how much money do you think that entails versus a step down in two seasons?

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/21/12 at 06:02 AM ET

Avatar

In real dollars how much money do you think that entails versus a step down in two seasons?

Yeah, but that disappears in a couple years, right?

Posted by Garth on 11/21/12 at 08:39 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

In real money, how much does it have to be to be considered “bleeding the league”, considering the financials still aren’t public.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/21/12 at 09:02 AM ET

Avatar

Yeah, but that disappears in a couple years, right?

I don’t think you understood the question.

In real money, how much does it have to be to be considered “bleeding the league”, considering the financials still aren’t public.

And I think you’re dodging the question.

If the difference in the two positions is such that it warrants a “Yeah, something so terrible as getting to their 50/50 split in maybe as many as four years!  OH NO!” I would assume you had some kind of knowledge regarding what the actual financial separation between the two deals could be expected to be.

I’m guessing we’re talking about a difference in their positions on just the step-down part of it of at least 100 million bucks.  And that’s just the step down not the actual revenue split.

What is yours?

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/21/12 at 09:57 AM ET

Avatar

I don’t think you understood the question.

At least you understand when to answer a question earnestly.

Posted by Garth on 11/21/12 at 10:21 AM ET

J.J. from Kansas's avatar

I’m guessing we’re talking about a difference in their positions on just the step-down part of it of at least 100 million bucks.  And that’s just the step down not the actual revenue split.

What is yours?

That the necessity of the players to come immediately to the league’s demands instead of stepping down while still having it not be a “bad deal” is nil.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/21/12 at 10:23 AM ET

henrymalredo's avatar

The NHL wants concretes proposals from the NHLPA instead of a back and forth discussion to work out an agreement because they feel they’ll be able to get more concessions out of the PA that way.  If the PA presents a proposal that is much closer to what the NHL wants in terms of division of revenue in exchange for “concessions” (and I use that term very loosely, since the NHL has no plans on conceding anything from the status quo) on contracting issues then we all know what the NHL will do.  As soon as the PA puts that proposal down, the NHL won’t let them move back off of it even though they sure as heck won’t won’t accept the concessions that the PA will offer in exchange for it.

Posted by henrymalredo from Lansing on 11/21/12 at 11:24 AM ET

Avatar

At least you understand when to answer a question earnestly.

Again, “In real dollars how much money do you think that entails versus a step down in two seasons?”

Are you capable of answering that question?

That the necessity of the players to come immediately to the league’s demands instead of stepping down while still having it not be a “bad deal” is nil.

Again, ““In real dollars how much money do you think that entails versus a step down in two seasons?”

Are you capable of answering that question?

Guys, this isn’t rocket science. 

Garth, you think that since the 100 million dollar charge doesn’t extend off into infinity it’s not a big deal.  That’s stupid.  100 mil is 100 mil.  It’s a significant amount. 

JJ, you think that the players can give up more and more and more revenue int he short term on a deal that is going to absolutely pay them a lower percentage over time and you think that, somehow, the players could ever make revenue lost in the short term up in the long term.  That is also stupid.

Garth’s position is stupid because 100 mil is a significant amount worth negotiating over.

JJ’s position is stupid because the players share of revenue is largely profit while the owners share of revenue is largely expenses.  Because of this, and also because this negotiation will result in every outcome with the players receiving a lower share of HRR, it is supremely stupid for the players to pass up 1.8ish B of revenue in order to try and secure ~100 mil of revenue.

That’s really, really stupid.

The players would have made more, as a group, playing 6(7) years under a flat 50-50 deal than they would make if they got 5(6) years of a CBA at the old 57-43.

And there is no way they were ever going to get 57-43.  At any other kind of deal that steps down to 50-50 their level of stupidity increases exponentially.  As in literally, exponentially.

The smart, business decision would have been to cave immediately to 50-50 and bargain strongly on the contractual issues.  The stupid, roided up ‘Bettman Sux!’ decision would have been… to do exactly what they are doing.

This isn’t a pro-player or pro-owner thing.  It’s being able to comprehend reality and function competently within it.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/21/12 at 11:54 AM ET

WingsFaninCO's avatar

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/21/12 at 10:54 AM ET

Adds a completely new level to the terms “hypocritical” and “jackass”

Posted by WingsFaninCO on 11/21/12 at 12:08 PM ET

redxblack's avatar

Profit is all money left after all expense. World class hockey talent is an expense, not a part of profit. How can the players be taking the profits when they are an expense? Further, everything you’re offering in this thread contradicts what you’ve been saying for weeks about why players should capitulate because they’d make up any losses in a few years.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 11/21/12 at 12:34 PM ET

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Paul Kukla founded Kukla’s Korner in 2005 and the site has since become the must-read site on the ‘net for all the latest happenings around the NHL.

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